Rabbinical sages exonerate father charged with killing son

[Violet_Crumble]

A halakhic ruling issued before the weekend by rabbinical sages of the ultra-Orthodox community in Jerusalem exonerates a yeshiva student, 19, charged with the killing of his three-months-old baby.

The ruling, issued by rabbis Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, Shmuel Auerbach and Chaim Kniyevski was delivered to Jerusalem Police Chief Maj. Gen. Ilan Franco on Friday.

The halakhic ruling threatens to renew the violent demonstrations held ten days ago in the Me'ah Shearim ultra-Orthodox neighborhood. The ruling describes the charge sheet against Vales as "blood libel."

Yisrael Vales is suspected of beating his son and throwing him against the wall because the baby's cries annoyed him. The son died of his wounds two weeks ago.

The baby was hospitalized at Hadassah University Hospital, Ein Karem, in serious condition, with brain hemorrhaging, edema, signs of violence and bites on his body.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/708305.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

2. When Jews don't understand "blood libel," Jesus!

"Blood libel" refers to the slander that we (or any hated ethnicity) kidnap sweet, delightful Christian (or any other ethnicity) babies to use in rituals too disgusting to mention except in great detail. Like making matzoh.

Beating your own child to death is not included in this description. Period.

I take it the young, vicious daddy is connected?

[trisha]

4. When Jews don't understand "blood libel," Jesus!

Very sad.

[pelsar]

5. the young vicious daddy....

isnt really connnected..its more of the whole religious community sees this as a "blight" on their community and are sort of pissed that the non religious might see them in a "bad light"

which explains why they burn trash, thrown stones, make stuiped rulings...i suppose if there was an embassy in the area, they would probably burn that too...

why does this sound so familiar?.....

[Violet_Crumble]

7. Why it sounds so familiar...

One word. Religion...

[Violet_Crumble]

6. Yeah, I know...

I bet that they wouldn't trot out that excuse if the guy wasn't ultra-Orthodox. And they need to do what I just did and read up on the history of blood libel and all the deaths and misery it caused in the past. I hope the prosecutors do upgrade the charge from manslaughter to murder. The injuries to the baby deserve it...

Violet...

[Monkie]

3. rioters demand his freedom,screaming police are "nazis"

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/705561.html

Ultra-Orthodox protest arrest of man over death of his baby
By Jonathan Lis and Yair Ettinger, Haaretz Correspondents and Haaretz Service

Dozens of ultra-Orthodox residents of Jerusalem demonstrated Friday for the second consecutive day, to protest the arrest of an ultra-Orthodox man suspected of killing his baby son.
Protesters set trash cans ablaze Friday morning, blocking roads in the ultra-Orthodox Meah Shearim and Geula neighborhoods. They also threw garbage and rocks at passing cars and screamed "Nazis" at police officers.

~snip~

Members of the ultra-Orthodox community have demanded Vales' release and threatened riots if he is kept in custody, despite the fact that he admitted beating the child.

The ultra-Orthodox Kol Hai radio station quoted sources as saying that "Jerusalem would burn," if Vales was not released, and members of the ultra-Orthodox community have been disseminating flyers threatening riots.

The flyers call on the community to "unite and protest against this blood libel" and declares the arrest to be an "evil conspiracy" devised by the "evil regime" against the "dear gentle young man."

incredible since he admitted his guilt?

[rodeodance]

8. so the father was annoyed and killed his baby and now they want to

excuse his anger?-on the basis of a religious code--dah.!!

[Oversea Visitor]

9. This world turning upside down

And they using religion to do it.

[cali]

10. I can't begin to understand

people who think the way these Rabbis do. Their decision completely discounts the humanity of this baby. How could anyone defend a father who would dash his baby against a wall and bite the child? Why would anyone want to? Religious fanatics disgust me.

[Mend]

11. does the mother of the baby get any say in this? If this guy is

released, she has more children with him and tries to keep the babies from crying. Is this one of the many conservative religions where women don't count.

[eyl]

22. Per the Hebrew article

the wife is claiming he's innocent.

[no_hypocrisy]

12. I don't get it.

Since Rabbis were the judges, it's safe to assume that they used religious law to decide this issue of a father violently attacking his three-month old son who later died as a result of the attack.

The father admitted he did the act. So the issue remains was it justified?

Starting with the Ten Commandments with the edict not to kill. That's pretty easy to understand.

Now, the article doesn't mention the father's excuse or defense if you will, of his actions. Did he state that he didn't mean it, it was an overreaction, he was sleep-beating, etc.?

Continuing with the rabbis. Their next visit would be the Talmud with the extended rules of practicing Judaism and interpretations of the rules. I don't expect that they found a justification for this guy's actions. It wasn't even close to Abraham offering Isaac to the Lord to prove his devotion.

How they didn't condemn Yisrael Vales is beyond me.

[eyl]

21. The language they're using

is that he's innocent. Usually that means "he didn't do it", not "he was justified". I'm not sure how they're reconciling that with his confession.

[Jim Sagle]

13. Unrepresentative of anybody but himself.

My response to the human tragedy involved: :cry:

My response to any wider implications: :boring:

[Poll_Blind]

14. Rabbis Elyashiv, Steinman, Lipkowitz, et al. are doing their best to...

...make the implications as wide as they possibly can. Something tells me they're not just content to throw rocks at moving cars on Bar-Ilan Street on the sabbath anymore.

Which side will rawk when they incite a civil war in Israel, Jim?

PB

[Jim Sagle]

16. The secular side, of course. Same as in Tehran or Washington.

[ShalachEtAmi]

15. The article posted is all about Jews but definatly not Zionists...

Snip: ``Vales is a member of the anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox community`` From the article...

[Violet_Crumble]

17. Do you have some point you'd like to share?

The article's about some wanker who murdered his own baby and is being told by religious loonies he's done nothing wrong and that he's the victim of a blood libel. You seem to be trying to read something else into it...

Violet...

[ShalachEtAmi]

18. Yes the point I would like to share

This story is simply about a murderer who happens to be an ultra orthodox Jew.

Since it was posted in a section about the IP conflict,to me it was interesting to note
that they are an anti Zionist sect .

Thats the point I wanted to share...

[Violet_Crumble]

19. Uh, oh-kay...

Not really sure why you felt the need to share that, as I'm sure no-one but you was even worrying about things like who's a Zionist and who's not....

btw, welcome to DU! :)

[eyl]

20. The Hebrew version

of the http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArtPE.jhtml?itemNo=708592&contrassID=2&subContrassID=21&sbSubContrassID=0">article paints a somewhat more nuanced (or ambiguous) picture (possibly the English version hasn't been updated yet), both on what Elyashiv said and whether it was an halakhic ruling or not.

But there is great embarrassment in the office of Rabbi Elyashiv after factors in the ultra-Orthodox community described his statement as a psak halacha* supposedly finding the defendant innocent. They are incensed that on Friday pashkevils** were hung in Me'ah She'arim with a version of the statement with the words "innocent" emphasized, and about a claim made in the media, as if the message was sent from Rabbi Elyashiv's office to senior police officers and members of the State Prosecution to bring about Vales' release.

"This is a distortion and a lie", replied a source close to Rabbi Elyashiv, "the Rabbi did not state anywhere that he is innocent". According to him, "this was just support for Vales' rabbis who took it upon themselves to prove his innocence. The Rabbi told them: 'You're saying that he's innocent? Very well, please, prove it'. But when they asked him to explicitly find <Vales> was innocent, he told them he could not". The source said, that the publication of the call yesterday in Yated Ne'eman*** was a response to the "distortion", since it emphasized in its entirety the sentence where the Rabbis gives his support to those rabbis working "to bring the truth and justice to the light of day".

Zvi Eisenstein, Rahel Vales' brother-in-law who participated in the meetings, said that all the investigation material was placed before Rabbi Elyashiv, and he personally questioned the wife and the rabbis familiar with the accused. "He did a sort of judicial process", says Eisenstein. "He read the police investigation material, and reached the conclusion there was a problem".

*an Halakhic ruling
**These are something like public service announcements or calls for action posted by Rabbis or others on the bulletin boards in ultra-Orthodox communities.
***An ultra-Orthodox publication

[Scurrilous]

23. Parole service to recommend release of alleged child-killer

<snip>

"The parole service will recommend releasing Yisrael Vales, the 19-year-old ultra-Orthodox man accused of killing his three-month-old son a month ago.

A parole review prepared at the request of the Jerusalem district prosecutor's office will be submitted to the Jerusalem District Court at Vales' remand extension hearing Tuesday morning.

Prosecution sources said Monday night they had yet to finalize their position on releasing Vales from custody. An effort apparently will be made to find an arrangement that will enable his delivery into the custody of individuals who will vouch for him."

<snip>

"The prosecution announced that its position on releasing Vales would be determined according to standard procedure and after receiving a custody review from the parole service, but sources were in no hurry to join the parole service's recommendation last night.

The review deals with the question of whether Vales is dangerous, and concludes that he no longer poses a threat to anyone."


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/709160.html