Jordan king: Israel must disarm nukes

[Scurrilous]

Abdullah tells Spanish paper El Pais Jordan interested in nuclear-free Middle East, says Israel must disarm its nuclear weapons. If peace is achieved, Israel will not need such arms, King states

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3243110,00.html

<snip>

"Jordanian King Abdullah said his country is interested in a nuclear-free Middle East and urged the international community to pressure Israel to dismantle its nuclear arsenal.

"If the world is demanding Iran doesn't develop nuclear weapons it should also demand that countries which possess nuclear weapons
disarm," Abdullah said in an interview to Spanish newspaper El Pais. "For peace to be achieved in the region, Israel has to disarm its nuclear weapons."

"If there is peace," Abdullah added, "Israel will not need nuclear weapons. If the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is resolved, the Arab-Israeli conflict will also be resolved." The king also stated that Jordan wishes to see the region free from nuclear arms, and that "many states agree on that."

In February, the United States agreed to Egypt's demand to introduce a clause into the U.N.'s decision on nuclear energy stating that the Middle East should be a "nuclear weapons-free region," a decision which completely contradicts Israel's stance on the issue."

[xultar]

1. A-FUCKING greed. No one over there should have nukes and ours

need to be taken away as well.

[tomp]

3. a-$&%^#*@(-greed also nt

[sweetheart]

14. "£$%"$%"£ yes nt

[davepc]

6. So whats your plan to make the UK, France, China, Russia, India, Pakistan

and the other nuclear power states give up their nukes?

And after the world is taught to sing in perfect harmony and no nation has nuclear weapons, whats the plan when one of those nations goes "surprise!" and actually didn't get rid of some of their weapons and uses them as leverage to bully other nations?

No nukes is all well and good, but Democratic foreign and military policy built around unilateral disarmament is a losing proposition unless those questions can be answered competantly.

[xultar]

12. The ones you listed seem to be responsible to me. None have preempted

strikes on anyone right? Israel has. We have.

[fujiyama]

55. Pakistan and China

have not been what I'd consider 'responsible'.

Pakistan is a state sponsor of terror and provided nuclear technology to Iran and NK.

Abdullah is relatively reformist minded and in an ideal world, all the tensions he mentioned would be solved, but with the level of distrust there exists between Israel and the Arab world, I don't see Israel giving up its one trump card.

Unfortunately as we know though, if one country has nukes, surrounding nations unfriendly to that nation will also have them. That's just how the world works.

[Coastie for Truth]

62. "None have preempted...." ?????????????

You posted

The ones you listed seem to be responsible to me. None have preempted strikes on anyone right? Israel has. We have.

All have "pre-empted" Even the UK pre-empted the US in the war of 1812.

If you are referring to June 1967 I would suggest that you read the "Corfu Channel Arbitration" and the law of international straits.

[King Mongo]

99. Given that nukes are weapons of terror....

...I'm sure that the UK, France, China, Russia, India and Pakistan enjoy the fact that they are States which will practice terror to defend themselves.

[DELUSIONAL]

7. I agree with xultar

The US is a dangerous monster -- and the rest of the nuke brotherhood aren't far behind.

The greatest danger with the US and Israel are the religious fundamentalists who could get control and bring about their religious agendas by nuking the "unchosen" rejects of god. In the US if bushie is indeed an end of timer -- that makes the US with bushie being the "decider" the most dangerous owner of nukes in the world.

[xultar]

38. ding ding ding! The more I realise that the Fundies need Israel to

usher in WWW III to get Christ to come back the more FRIGHTENED I get.

Christians need Israel to kick this shit off. It doesn't seem far fetched for anyone to provoke nuke action over there to get their way.

Now GA PBS is broadcasting programs saying that Israel was there before. I'm like nope. Palestine was there Before Christ...BC named by the Greeks. They need Israel because that is what they wrote in the Bible and the Bible can't be wrong. Too bad they are too stoopid to know that the Bible is an interpretation of a story.

[Tight_rope]

22. You are damn right...the UN needs to confiscate "ALL" Nuclear Weapons

from "ALL" countries.

[xultar]

36. What is funny is the only country to have used the weapons has the NERVE

to act like it is responsible enough to determine who can have them.

Ahhh I think fuckin not muthafucka. The US has no business saying who can or can't have nukes. And with that said no one should have any.

[fujiyama]

56. And how does it go about such a task?

Especially when the Security Council is the "big five" nuclear club? For many years, they tried keeping all others out of its exclusive club, but the rest of the world understandably didn't have any interest being bullied by five nations.

[xultar]

60. One can wish can't they?

[Coastie for Truth]

63. I would go a step further

shut down all nuclear reactors - even so-called "peaceful" nuclear reactors used to generate electricity. We can "share" or oil and oil like good people.

If need be we can burn coal for energy. No need for oil or nukes.

Oil leads to pre-emptive wars. Nukes - even so-called "peaceful" nuclear reactors can be turned into sources of fissile materials.

[KittyWampus]

52. you'll have to pry my nukes from my cold dead hands....

:D

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. I'm glad someone is calling Israel out on this

Another headline was proclaiming that because of Iran other ME countries may arm themselves with nukes. The headline should have read, because of Israel...

[wakeme2008]

4. I agree,, as long as Israel has nucs

the other ME countries feel they need nucs.

NOBODY needs nucs...

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Nobody needs nukes

including the USA, who happens to be the only ones publicly threatening to use them.

[Scurrilous]

81. Israel's nuclear ambitions

It's a pity that Israel appears not to have considered trying to make the Middle East a nuclear-free zone.

<snip>

"Iran's nuclear ambitions could tempt other Mideast countries to follow suit," a headline from the Associated Press says today. The story is based on a classified report from Israeli experts, who recommend that "Israel invest more heavily in responses to nuclear and terror threats".

Haaretz newspaper has a more detailed account that says: "The committee finds that if Iran gets nuclear arms, other Muslim, Middle Eastern countries will try to follow suit."

Israel, apparently, is playing no part whatever in the Middle East arms race, despite the fact that it's the only country in the region that currently possesses nuclear weapons, and is widely regarded as having the world's sixth largest stockpile."


more

[erpowers]

8. No Longer Ally

Oh well he just fell out of favor with the Bush clan. How long do you think it will be before someone is accusing him of supporting terrorists in his region? I do not hate Irseal, I just know that what King Abdullah said in a no no in the Bush Administration. It seems that you can fall out of favor with the Bush clan real fast by saying things they do not like.

[EFerrari]

10. Um, BushCo has been out of favor with the king for several years

now. And he's brushed them off on more than one occasion.

[elehhhhna]

21. the BA's love of the criminal Chalabi could be a problem, eh?

He's a wanted man in Jordan

[EFerrari]

23. Sure. And the BA policy is making it dangerous for any

moderate government to be public in support.

King Abdullah did a whole lecture series here, in the United States, on the dangers of the BA policy and how it was fueling anti-American sentiment all over the ME. When Bush wanted to meet with him, regrettably, the king was unavailable.

I can't remember if this was before or after the invasion of Iraq. But it was at least two years ago.

[peacetalksforall]

9. Kick. Keep this kicked. The logic is there. It can be done. n/t

[stray cat]

11. Given the number of countries that say they want Israel destroyed

Makes me think they are smart to hold onto their weapons.

[barb162]

41. There sure is a lot of saber-rattling in the Mideast and Israel is

vastly outnumbered

[Pavulon]

46. Same in

all three wars where they managed to embarrass their better equipped neighbors.

Numbers are not relevant. Saddam had more tanks in GW1 but that did him little good.

[Roland99]

13. He's obviously an anti-Semitic, freedom-hating demagogue.

Better invade Jordan next.

[The Witch]

17. you forgot the

:sarcasm:

[Roland99]

19. Sarcasm? I'm being serious. See, we're all wrong. They're all right.

That's why they're called the "right".




;)





I honestly don't know what DNA mutation occurs to drive certain individuals to such violent and careless ideologies as we've seen the US government adopt over the last few decades.

I weep for this once great nation that has been turned into a rogue nation.

:(

[nolabels]

75. I don't know about that once great nation status myself

If you studied a little of history from a truly objective point of view you might come away thinking different.

[Phx_Dem]

27. Yea, thats why Jordan recently

BANNED observant jews from visiting Jordan, because the people who make up the gov. of Jordan are so fair minded.

[Bridget Burke]

37. More information, please!

Haven't heard of this one.

[Phx_Dem]

49. There is a post in the I/P forum somewhere

The Jordan Gov. stated that observant jews (ones that are visibly jewish based on accoutrement's like wearing tzi-tzi) will not be allowed entry into Jordan because they will be targets for terrorism/racism and the Jordan gov does not think they could provide for their safety. At least that is what they claim.

[SidDithers]

61. At least that is what they claim?...

Do you have reason to not believe them?

Sid

[Phx_Dem]

67. no I don't

I said claim, because I would prefer to believe them when they said it was for security concerns, as opposed to doing it because they don't like jews. Whatever the motivation, it prevents some jews from traveling into Jordan.

[IA_Seth]

66. Oh yeah..

Well I heard (somewhere in the purple people eater forum) that flying pigs have been spotted migrating from Brazil.

Your statement has about as much credibility as mine without a link to any facts. Jordan has been known to be a moderate voice in a region of fanatacism, and those that won't at least agree with that much seem to be instigating, to say the least.

[Phx_Dem]

68. look it up yourself dude

Yes I know that Jordan is more moderate than most other ME countries, that has nothing to do with my post. They even have a peace agreement w/Israel, woo hoo.

[IA_Seth]

70. Lol..

Yeah see, I am not the one propagating "everyone hates the jews" lines, you are. So the burden of proof really isn't on me, it's on you.

If you choose to just spout rhetoric without any facts, or geez even just a link that CLAIMS to be a fact (plenty o those), it's hard to buy into your message. I am not even saying your wrong, but if you want people to believe what you say (and assumingly you do or you wouldn't bother posting), it would help to site a fact to back up your claim.

just sayin.

[Phx_Dem]

73. I'll see what I can find

lots of posts in the I/P forum, I guess I can't expect you to believe me just because I said it, but I really don't just make shit up. I don't think my posts in this thread say anything about "everyone hates the jews", it's unfortunate that that's what you percieved in my posts.

[0007]

15. The goal should be total disarmament of all nuclear bomb

and weapons and demilitarization of all counties.

In February, the United States agreed to Egypt's demand to introduce a clause into the U.N.'s decision on nuclear energy stating that the Middle East should be a "nuclear weapons-free region," a decision which completely contradicts Israel's stance on the issue.


Egypt and other Arab states slammed the criticism directed at Iran over its nuclear program, charging that the world was at the same time turning a blind eye to Israel's nuclear project.


Israeli officials were however unworried about the February decision, and said at the time that "this will have no real impact on Israel, and in any case this is not the first time such a reference appears. The same thing happened when Libya decided to sign the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty."

[malaise]

16. About time someone said this n/t

[peacetalksforall]

18. Yes, I agree. There is more rational thought coming from Jordan than

the other countries

[TheLeftyMom]

28. I'm continually impressed by King Abdullah (sp?)

He's very thoughtful, articulate and I think if his countrymen would let him -- he could really strengthen freedoms, re-energize their educational system and make their country a huge powerhouse in the world.

I don't think anyone has brought this up yet, but his wife, Rania... she's Palestinian. So he probably has a bit more of an anti-Israel axe to grind than being purely altruistic. That said, I'm not sure he's anti-Semetic. I think a Scandinavian ex-pat who worships the FSM and lives in Israel would be treated the same way.

But then, I don't know him, I'm just a Royalty and Royal geneology buff who needs to shut up.

[peacetalksforall]

29. His father did more for peace in the ME than any gangs of

Republican State, Intel, or WH operatives who have always tried to stir it up and to promote and defend Israel beyond any measure of neutrality or fairness.

[IA_Seth]

26. Agreed

If the UN has asked Russia to cease it's nuclear program while the US was ramping theirs up it would have been just as useless. There is a cold war (and a hot war on occasion) between Israel and several ME nations..real peace will only be found by disarming both sides.

IMO of course.

[patcox2]

20. Sauce for the gander!

Of course, holding Irael to the same standards as other countries is anti-semitism, didn't you get the memo?

[Supersedeas]

54. Memo marked Top Secret for National Security purposes

[cantstandbush]

24. I just watched a segment on CNN on the Holocaust "Never Forget"

It was really so sad to see those images of the victims. The holocaust has always boggled my mind. But there is one question that haunts me when thinking about it. If it was German Nazis that carried out this barbaric act against the Jews, why do they hate the Arabs so much and seem to be able to deal with the Germans as allies and almost like nothing ever happened at the hands of the Germans just two generations later but behave toward the Palestinians and the Syrians as though they carried out the holocaust? This boggles my mind too. Israeli a re willing to take land, bulldoze home, take water rights, farmland from Palestinians but they ask for no land or a return to land in Germany.

[Phx_Dem]

25. Jews don't hate arabs

The arab nations in the ME have been trying to destroy Israel since 1948. Hamas is the latest iteration of this "tradition". The land of Israel is the jews ancestral home, jews have been living there for almost 3000 years, at least when they were not being relocated or killed.

[classysassy]

31. America is the homeland of the Indians

they have been killed and relocated.The Jews don't live on reservation in their homeland,it seems to me there is a double standard here.

[Phx_Dem]

32. There are some similarities

But the area now called Israel and Palestine was controlled by the British prior to 1948.

Recall that The pals were offered a nation of their own in '48 and they declined. It was not a perfectly "formed" nation but it would have been a good start.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

33. Yeah, those damn Palestinians should have been happy

about having half of their land arbitrarily taken away.

And what's with the grumbling? They were offered a pseudo-nation.

:sarcasm:

[Pavulon]

35. They should be busy

hating the UN. They sanctioned Israel. After loosing three wars the arab states have come to terms with Israel.

Time for Hamas to grow up. They have no realistic choice but to accept israel and negociate a state.

Realistic meaning they live after making it.

[K-W]

45. Hamas is the one who wants to negotiate.

It is Israel and the US who are refusing to negotiate with Hamas.

[Pavulon]

47. Their charter says it all

Absolute destruction of Israel. NO reason to go further. How can negotiate with something you do not recognize?

Hamas is a terrorist organization here and in europe. They elected them, that does not mean the world has to deal with them.

Hamas is a pissant organization that does not even represent a nation state. They do not set terms on the world stage.

[Pavulon]

34. Cold War checkmate

The palestinians are, as a cause, a continuation of cold war politics. The arab nations could have placed them, after they expelled most jews. They choose not to for political reasons.

Palestinians continued to exist as a cause by taking money from the worlds developed nations. They are a cause for arab nations to scapegoat so their people will not realize hoe shitty they have it.

By electing Hamas terrorists they gave the world a reason to stop supporting them. They forced Israel into unilateral action by electing Hamas and will end up with a state. They will have no control of the borders or terms. This is due to the oldest truth in the world. Force, they have no force with which to counter israel. They can bomb pizza joints and such but the reality is they can not fight an open war. Just like their arab neighbors who continued to support them after loosing 3 such open wars.

[Astrad]

53. Or

The Israelis are, as a cause, a continuation of cold war politics. The Western nations could have placed them elsewhere such as South America or Africa. They choose not to for political reasons.

Israel continued to exist as a cause by taking money from the United States. They are a cause for Western nations to point to so their people will not realize that it is their own governments that prop up the undemocratic arab regimes.

By electing Likud they gave the world a reason to stop supporting them. They forced Palestinians into unilateral action by electing Sharon and will end up with a deteriorating security situation. They struggle to control their borders. This is due to the oldest truth in the world. Force, they have no force with which to counter terrorism. They can fire missiles at slums and such but the reality is they can not fight an open war (which is the only kind of war they could win). Just like their US backers who continue to support them while losing a similar war in Iraq.

[Ms. Clio]

57. Perfect n/t

[IA_Seth]

58. Lol, hear hear! n/t

[Pavulon]

65. Wake Up

Open war is like gw1 or WW2. If a town in france had germans in it they did not surrender it was shelled. Civilians left or were killed. Iraq is not an open war. If Iran attacks the us there will be an open war. There will be a horrible war where land occupation is not a goal. The destruction of infrastructure and people would be the goal.

If Iraq were open we would have surrounded falluja and flattened it with b-52's and 155. I mean dresden flat. Then killed anyone still holding a gun. Any mob retaliation would be dealt with by using massive air power or shelling. Deaths would be in the 10's of thousands at a time.

The western world could have just finished gassing them. Israel had jews there long before the ottomans claimed it, long before Mohamed existed. The UN chartered, it exists, it will continue to exist. DEAL WITH IT.



Egypt takes billions, so does Jordan. The Egyptian main battle tank is the M1a1 abrams. BTW Sharon is no longer in control of Israel the democratic process occurred and another person was elected into power, who will continue Israel's policy.

Israel has a productive economy, and functioning technological systems. They sell software and hardware (civilian and military. Israel would exist without US aid.

BTW this is not a justification for war or any such crap.

[Violet_Crumble]

83. So you support Israel's expulsion of Palestinians in 1948??

While some folk have a burning desire to blame Arabs for everything, the refugees from 1948 should have been allowed to return to their homes after hostilities ceased. Blaming the Arab states for that is really stretching it...

Violet..

[MrPrax]

39. Good grief...

"jews have been living there for almost 3000 years"...some Jews sure...which one's? Who knows?

Those questions are best left to the Israeli Supreme Court :eyes:

But that really doesn't explain how some Russian or American is entitled to a plot of land previously owned by title deed by the actual people living there. Jeez if I listen to some 'Jews', then they also figure they can hang their 'traditional' black hats to the 'homeland' of Abraham and Sarah!!

Don't go there... ;-)

[Phx_Dem]

48. my understanding

is that the residents (pals) living in Isreal at the time did not have titles for the property.

[MrPrax]

50. yer lying...

and there are lots of material available on Palestinian land claims on this subject...Israeli courts themselves have ruled on many many.

[Phx_Dem]

51. Who owns what

"At no time in modern history did the Palestinians have legal control over their land until the creation of the Palestinian Authority in 1994. Now their representatives have control of land ownership in the territories from which Israel has withdrawn; that is, zones A and B (30% of the West Bank and 70% of Gaza). This new power is far from insignificant, considering that control of the land has always been and still remains at the centre of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

http://mondediplo.com/1997/09/palaut

[barb162]

42. And there were progoms of Mideast Jews before 1948

[Violet_Crumble]

87. The word yr looking for is *pogrom*

n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

64. Husseini - the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem - was more of a Nazi Sympathizer

then even Hirohito or Tojo. That is a fact. (My Dad was in the occupation government in 1945; I lived in Shibuya near the Hachiko Statue in the mid 1980's; I met Sugihara's widow, and grand son).

[Pavulon]

30. Why?

They are not NPT signatories. They are not threatning their neighbor. There is no reason for them to disarm.

[Violet_Crumble]

82. The fact that they're not NPT signatories should be reason enough...

Israel hasn't threatened to use nukes? Excuse me, but just the fact that they have nuclear weapons, let alone the occassional sabre rattling they've done does mean that they're a threat to neighbours. I don't think any state should have nukes...

Violet...

[barb162]

40. "If peace is achieved, Israel will not need such arms..." IF

IF is a very important word there

[AzDar]

43. Seems key to 'true' peace in the Middle East. Unfortunately, it will

never happen, imho.
Israel is the ultimate 'Hawk' Nation.

[Pavulon]

44. You mean

by attacking its neighbors three times in bids to kill them all?

Umm no. Israel has a right to exist. For true peace the rest of the nations in the ME can come to terms with that.

[AzDar]

59. Thank you for telling me what 'I mean' . I THOUGHT I meant

that Israel is an aggressive, disruptive presence in the M.E., but apparently I meant to say something else.
Thanks for clarifying.. :sarcasm:

[Phx_Dem]

74. Your assertion could be misinterpreted

in a lot of different ways. Take some time to think about what you said and clarify please, personally I would not dream of putting words in your mouth.

[AzDar]

93. Surely you meant to reply to another post, since mine was not in response

to you?

[Phx_Dem]

94. No, right person

just thought I would jump in. ;)

[AzDar]

95. Hmmmm.....my mother-in-law says the same thing. n/t

[Phx_Dem]

97. good one! nt

[sendero]

69. yes..

.... and all the children of the world should have food and shelter and all the butterflies should live forever and.. and...

I agree with him but his opinion and a dollar will buy a cup of bad coffee. It's not going to happen.

[grassfed]

71. Bushniks and Israel

Many people on the left and the right have a total investment in Israel not unlike Bush followers. They're in too deep to concede anything and resort to similar tortured justifications and emotional attacks. It happens all the time here, same people, same knee-jerk responses.I wonder if they know how obvious they sound. Too bad the stakes are catastrophic for everyone.

[IndianaGreen]

72. I agree, but we must start with the country with the largest stockpiles

and that's the US.

[Violet_Crumble]

85. Yep, indeed...

Seems a good place to start...

Violet...

[entanglement]

76. Eminently sensible idea, but I don't except it to happen anytime soon

n/t

[HuffleClaw]

77. haahhahahahaa

nice to see SOMEONE daring to even mention israels' nukes. nobody else has recently that i can think of. i expect he'll be the next to be smeared by the right wing pundits as a psycho terrorist loon.

[Miss Chybil]

78. Holy shit, a politician who makes sense!

What's the world coming to?

:think:

[ShalachEtAmi]

79. Unfortunately the need for Israel to hold on to their A-Bombs is obvious..

with a moronic madman called `The President of Iran`,the 2nd most powerful country in the Middle East ,about to acquire nukes himself,and threatening daily to wipe Israel off the map and other childish but equally dangerous threats (no matter how absurd they sound to sane people not suffering from tertiary syphilis)it is now Impossible for Israel to relinquish their Jewish inventions....

[Violet_Crumble]

84. Just curious...

..but I've never seen anyone refer to nukes as 'Jewish inventions' before. Why does it matter who or what the people were who invented them?

Also, can you explain how exactly Israel would be able to use nukes if attacked either conventionally or by nukes?

Violet...

[Andromeda]

86. Welcome to DU, ShalachEtAmi....

:hi: I think Israel will hold on to their nukes since they are surrounded by hostile Arab nations, most of whom have been at war with and had their butts kicked by Israel.

[Violet_Crumble]

88. Never mind...

n/t

[Englander]

90. Nice abuse of logic.

The sea of hostility is such a threat that nukes are necessary, but is easily vanquished
without the threat/use of nukes. It's an existential threat, but not really.

[ShalachEtAmi]

92. Thanks for the welcome Andromedia..I read a lot of your posts..

And enjoy a lot of your posts :)

[Englander]

89. Which is it?

Are these threats from non-existant nukes, absurd, or dangerous? Or, are the threats of
attack from non-existant nukes absurd, or 'childish'? How can non-existant nukes be dangerous,
whilst also being absurd? I mean, which is it? Are the nukes in existance, which means a
dangerous threat, or are they non-existant, which means an absurd threat?

[ShalachEtAmi]

91. Can`t answer...

I don`t understand the question :)

[Phx_Dem]

96. STD?

what are you talking about? If he acquired an STD at some point in his life I imagine he received treatment for it.

Who invented nuclear weapons really is besides the point, for that matter, Einstein may have fleshed out the overall theory, but it was Dupont engineers that made the whole thing possible with their development of modern explosives.

Welcome to DU, btw.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chevychase]

98. So, who's arguing?

IF there is peace, they'll talk, they'll eat, they'll drink and be merry, nobody will need nukes, including Israel.

In the meantime, has Abdullah paid any attention to Ahmadamnjihadi lately?