Top priority for the fence (By Haaretz Editorial)

[ShalachEtAmi]

Last week's terror attack at Tel Aviv's former central bus station again prompted a public debate over delays in the construction of the separation fence, after it turned out that the suicide bomber had entered Israel through breaches in the Jerusalem envelope section of the barrier. Despite government promises to speed up the construction, it emerged once again that the project is still far from completion. Once again, we heard the defense establishment's claims against the courts, which are "holding up" the work, as well as counter-arguments that the state is contributing to delays in the legal deliberations.

Interim Prime Minister Ehud Olmert must place the completion of the fence at the top of his agenda - first, in order to maintain security and save civilian lives. Despite the drop in the number of suicide attacks, which the fence is intended to stave off, Israel's home front is still vulnerable to terrorists. The plethora of warnings and concern over a renewed flaring up of the intifada make the need to end the foot-dragging regarding the fence's construction real.


...MORE AT...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/708909.html

I agree the completion of the security barrier must be the Israeli governments top priority..

[King Mongo]

1. I also don't understand why the wall doesn't follow the green line...

...certainly, fewer hostilities would have been fueled if the wall had been built along the green line, fewer people would have harmed and I bet that the wall would have been built much faster too!

[Scurrilous]

2. Retired colonel: Israel's greed to blame for attacks

Retired IDF colonel says government insistence on grabbing more Palestinian land is delaying fence construction, which in turn allows terrorists easy access to Israel

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3242042,00.html

<snip>

"A retired IDF colonel on Friday said "the greed of the Israeli government when it comes to Palestinian land, mainly in the E1 area and Ma'ale Adumim, will allow more terrorists to infiltrate through these areas to the Tel Aviv Central bus station."

Just days before the government holds discussions on fastening construction work on a planned fence around the capital, Colonel (ret.) Shaul Arieli, said Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's policy will hinder the construction of the security fence around Jerusalem.

As a member in the management of the Council for Peace and Security, for years Arieli has campaigned for the construction of a security fence in a way that will minimize harm to the Palestinians.

Arieli, the commander of northern Gaza under Ehud Barak, said Olmert continues to follow a poor policy which is has been causing delays in erecting the fence meant to prevent terrorists from reaching populated centers.

"I am angry when I hear government ministers saying that the High Court of Justice is hindering fence construction – in fact it is their greed which is causing this and they should be complaining to no one," he said."

[Tom Joad]

3. The Annexation Wall will be dismantled. That should be the first

priority of those who promote human rights.

[ShalachEtAmi]

4. I am not sure where this `Annexation wall`` you talk about is...

and weather or not it shall be dismantled or not...

But `the security barrier` is certain to be completed soon.

It is one of the most popular projects among Israelis,with support across almost all political lines and parties (this opinion piece comes from Haaretz newspaper after all).

It has proved its effectiveness in vastly reducing the number of terrorist attacks thereby saving multiple innocent lives,and its not even completed yet.

The way the PA government today deals with terrorism ,and regards ALL of Israel to be occupied territories (including Haifa,Tel Aviv and Eilat)means the security barrier will most definitely be completed way before any wall separating the 2 areas is dismantled.

[Tom Joad]

6. No explanation as to why it was not built on the '67 line?

Why is it that it takes the most fertile land away from Palestinians?
Nothing about how it will destroy Palestinian communities?
Nothing about the International court ruling against the Wall?
Nothing about the universal condemnation by human rights organizations?
Nothing about President Carter's condemnation of the wall as part of Israel's effort to continue colonialization of Palestinian land?
Nothing to explain how this grievous injustice against Palestians will bring "security"?

Questions need to be answered. When U.S. taxpayers ask questions of the projects they are funding, I think we deserve adequate answers.

[ShalachEtAmi]

7. If there were no terrorist attacks there would be no wall...

Simple as that...It will be dismantled when the killing of innocents ceases.All else is currently,unfortunately immaterial.
The ICJ or Jimmy Carter,or those `human rights organization`s`are not protecting Jewish or Arab Israeli teens in a disco, or 16 yr old American Jewish teen visitors to Israel....

.....and someone has to look out for them....the security wall is attempting to do this.

[idontwantaname]

9. attempting

the security wall attempts to protect those lives you described above, just as the us pretends to bring democracy and justice to iraq.

[ShalachEtAmi]

11. Your right ,all of Israeli society ATTEMPTS to ward off terrorist attacks.

A teen can not get into a disco without getting his knapsack searched,you can not go to the mall at the Esraelli center in Tel Aviv without walking through a metal detector,you may not enter the movie house without opening your bags first.You can not go to bars and clubs downtown Jerusalem without showing ID and being searched.There are checkpoints and roadblocks all throughout the territories.And sometimes roadblocks within Israeli highways...as well as the still incomplete security barrier.

All in an ATTEMPT to try and protect innocent civilians from being harmed by terrorists.

[idontwantaname]

26. theyre treating the symptom, not the illness. n/t.

[Englander]

16. It's illegal.

It's built on Occupied land. The purpose of the Wall is to annexe that land, which is not part
of Isreal, & to protect the illegal settlements. The question of it being an effective securtiy
barrier is a repugnant red herring, because it isn't effective, as it isn't built on the Green
Line. Obviously, it's an illegal attempt to annexe the West Bank, & to keep the illegal settelements.

[ShalachEtAmi]

23. A `repugnant red herring`?

:)

Not an `ad hominum` `reactionary knee jerk` or `look there`?

A repugnant effective red herring that helps save lives..

[Englander]

24. Well, those as well, if yer like. n/t

[chevychase]

5. Life is a human right

and the barrier is saving untold numbers of lives, Israeli ones from suicide bomber attacks, and Palestinian ones, from counter-attacks.

Those who promote human rights should not want the barrier to be dismantled, but, rather, to be completed.

Those that prefer it be dismantled at this stage of the dangerous and deadly conflict should arouse suspicion of motives.

[idontwantaname]

8. and Palestinian ones, from counter-attacks?

im not sure where youre getting your info from... however many people who care about human rights would like to see the wall dismantled or moved to the green line.

[pelsar]

18. not yet......

without a real solid peace agreement that actually works, the only thing the wall on the green line would accomplish today would be kassams and mortors on jersusalem, hadera, etc.

need i remind that Hamas is now the governing body and all they plan on doing is organizing the attacks on israel since they see Tel Aviv as theirs as well....and they dont like JEWs on their land...(or at least some of them...i think they're trying to figure out just who and what they are right now..but then will that change again?)

kinda of ruins the "humanitarian progressive view point"

and us israelis know from the gaza experience that if that would happen, the general reaction from places like this would be the preference that israel not retailiate and not try to defend itself and let it citizens be killed and terrorized....(given the options that exist in 2006)

of course do you think the ISM would then jump over to israel and attempt to be human shields and protect israelis?...and do you think islamic jihad and hamas would even care?

[idontwantaname]

25. killed and terrorized

i think its a non-issue until the # of israelis killed and terrorized out number the numbers of palestinians killed and terrorized. last i was in tel aviv things seemed pretty quiet and life seemed very very good... i dont think theres a single meter of that life in the occupied territories.

yes kassams are scary. yes kassams are illegal acts. yes it would be great for kassam activity stop... the same with rock throwing ect... however growing up with daily IDF incursions gives you a different perspective on how things function. putting those people in a box and ignoring them will not make things better (as you know)... nor will poking them with a stick and lobbing artillery shells at them (as you know).

as far as things go... i cant understand religious folks on either side.

[Englander]

15. That's complete nonsense.

The Wall is built on the OT, it's a land-grab, it's existence feeds & furthers the conflict.
The purpose is to protect the settlements.

But, nice talking points, btw.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Englander]

21. Oh, that's excellent stuff.

I haven't laughed so much since TokenJew, I think was the name, that's really top-quality
spinning, I can't stop laughing now, dammit! Great job!

[chevychase]

22. Some more ad hominem opinions.

What, no talking points this time?

[cali]

10. I don't see how,

in the long run, the wall protects Israelis. It's patently unjust to Palestinians. It further co-opts Palestinian land, and it raises the level of anger.

[ShalachEtAmi]

12. Security Fence's Effectiveness: undeniable

It already has been effective in reducing the number of successful terrorist attacks.It has not reduced the number of attempts though.(so called ceasefires or Hudnas had nothing to do with it)

[Tom Joad]

13. It has effectively annexed Palestinian territory to Israel, and made

Palestinian lives miserable. Yep, it serves its purpose. ahhh, what a country can do with overwhelming military force.

Still, i think it will be torn down. Injustice is not forever.

[pelsar]

17. its a short term solution...

on one hand it, it makes the lives of the palestenains far more miserable than their lives were before...and reasonable to assume that it increases the amount of suicide attempts on israelis.

on the other hand, it reduces the actual successful attempts to almost zero.....for an israeli who can now have his kids go to the mall, take a bus, without worrying, thats a mighty big change.

perhaps a little reminder: before the suicide bombers there were almost no checkpoints and they were just checking some IDs of certain profiles...and of course the actual attacks on israeli citizens started from 1948 with no letup which questions the "magic of the 67 line (like the one thats around gaza today and up north with lebanon)

after the suicide bombers started blowing up busses and resturants, and employing kids, women, ambulances, hospital permits, the checkpoints appeared...and they werent enough, the suicide bombers and their handlers found ways around them (sometimes visable to the soldiers watching them....)and continued to blow up busses

the wall stopped that.

if and when there is peace, it can be dismantled, its only concrete....but in the meantime, the israeli public is overwhelming in favor of it and no longer wakes up each morning wonder which bus got blown up last night....

dumb dumb dumb decision to use suicide bombers...and even dumber to continue with them.....

[Scurrilous]

14. Sources: U.S. won't view pullout line as final border

<snip>

"The United States will not recognize a border created after a unilateral withdrawal from the West Bank as Israel's permanent frontier, senior U.S. administration members said in unofficial conversations."

<snip>

"One official said he believed the U.S. would agree to see the post-withdrawal line as a temporary border, "which would become permanent, obviously with slight changes, following future negotiations between Israel and the PA."

<snip>

"If the Israeli withdrawal receives the blessing of the international community, "it will be assuming that any reduction of the occupation is good for both sides, but it certainly won't be support for a new border," a source in Washington said.

Any reasonable interpretation of international law, a legal expert said Tuesday, "cannot allow recognition of a border that was determined unilaterally."

<snip>

"Specific problems have been raised with regard to Olmert's plan. For example, Olmert has said he intends the Jordan Valley to be Israel's "security border"; sources definded as "low to nil" the chance that such a line would receive international recognition."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/709412.html