the true story

[rini]

http://www.israelforum.com


The hypocrisy of those opposed to Arafat's removal is truly overwhelming, and indicates that Israel stands absolutely alone in its fight against Islamic terrorism. one would have hoped that after the Arab attack on the U.S. on 9/11, things would have changed. Well, apparently, not so.
At the very same time that Osama bin Ladin is the target of scores of U.S. assassination teams, the State Department's bizarre defense of Arafat and his terrorist regime is all the more striking in its hypocrisy. Apparently, for the Bush administration, there is no negotiating and no option other than the assassination of Islamic terrorists who strike at the U.S. However, the very same Arab mass-murderers who massacre Israelis and Americans located in Israel are to be preserved and protected by the Bush administration.

Bush's personal protection of Arafat is longstanding. When Arafat's troops began to conduct daily massacres of Jews in 2001 and Israel was forced to conduct Operation Defensive Shield, the IDF surrounded Arafat's headquarters, ready to rid the world of the Palestinian leader's curse once and for all. Immediately, though, under Saudi oil extortion, first Colin Powell and then George Bush extracted a promise from Ariel Sharon not to harm Arafat. For this reason alone, Israel was forced to withdraw its tanks and to allow the Palestinians to continue their Jihad against Israeli citizens till this very day.

Instead of prosecuting an all-out war against radical Islam and its murderous global Jihad, America is being forced to kowtow to the very same Saudi oil regime that paid for the 9/11 attack on New York and on the Pentagon.

For example, the Saudis demand that the Bush administration bury 19 pages of a Congressional report proving Saudi government involvement in the 9/11 attack, and Colin Powell rushes to do so. The Saudis then demand that the Bush administration perpetuate the Arab/Israeli conflict by keeping Arafat in control of the situation, and George Bush rushes to do so.

Israeli dependence on American goodwill forces Israel to be led by Colin Powell's commands, which originate directly from the Saudi terror-sponsoring regime.

The bottom line is that despite having the human and financial capital to be a world-class economy, Israel has allowed itself to become a charity case, and a slave to foreign interests. Israel has chosen to live under the illusion that financial aid from America is only available in exchange for Israeli willingness to have its people die so that it can be said that the U.S. has appeased Saudi Arabian demands. It is a fatal mistake on the part of Israel.

And despite threats to the contrary, if Israel were to expel Arafat, the U.S. will continue to stand beside Israel, because that's what allies do. Although, the best solution is not to expel Arafat, but to kill him and as many members of his regime as possible.

[Darranar]

1. JUNK! PROPAGANDA FILTH!

I WANT EVIDENCE THAT ARAFAT IS A TERRORIST! I HAVE YET TO SEE ANY WORTHWHILE EVIDENCE OF THAT!

This is full-scale propaganda junk. The one paragraph that has some reason in it is this one:

For example, the Saudis demand that the Bush administration bury 19 pages of a Congressional report proving Saudi government involvement in the 9/11 attack, and Colin Powell rushes to do so. The Saudis then demand that the Bush administration perpetuate the Arab/Israeli conflict by keeping Arafat in control of the situation, and George Bush rushes to do so.

Killing or expelling Arafat will cause more deaths on both sides. Legitimately remove him! All using force will do is cause more trouble and more violence!

This part struck me as most ridiculous, and that's saying something:
Although it is no surprise that the only people in the world who are opposed to the mass-murder of Jews in Israel are Israelis and members of the Jewish community worldwide
That is a plain and blatant lie, and anyone who reads DU knows it.

Not that I expected anything worthwhile from a site named IsraelForum.com though.

[LastDemInIdaho]

5. a site named IsraelForum.com

Maybe you prefer palestinianchroniclies.com?

[Darranar]

6. That site doesn't seem to exist...

Did you make it up?

[Jim Sagle]

2. You need to edit that down to four paragraphs.

[Maple]

3. Better yet

edit it down to none.

[HereSince1628]

4. Bad practice that,,,assassination of another nation's leaders,

it sets precidents that are difficult to abide. Imagine if the Palestinians targeted Sharon, or Bush?

Imagine how people would feel if one nation, say Israel, declared that it would assassinate "threats," in other, even friendly countries?

Well, I guess most people wouldn't like murders taking place in their countries especialy if they were sanctioned by the government of Israel.

Strength is manifest by the capacity to ignore provocation. Think on that.

[drdon326]

8. LOL

"Strength is manifest by the capacity to ignore provocation."

Beautiful words......except when , after 800 dead innocent israelis
the turn-the-other-cheek approach becomes pathetic.

[dfong63]

33. and twice that number of innocent palestinians killed

[Tinoire]

7. What? No opinion pieces today in Arutz Sheva or Little Green Footballs?

n/t

[Darranar]

10. I explored the site...

the forums are covered with this junk. Much like LGF.

BTW, this isn't in a thread. It's the home page article.

[Tinoire]

14. Thanks Darranar

I edited my post. Kind of difficult to tell when the author snips the paragraph on the first page but cuts and pastes the entire article from the follow-up page!

Yeah, I looked at the threads too. Israeli-apologist version of Free Republic. Urgh...

[LastDemInIdaho]

12. I've seen worse vanity sites posted here

Some of which brush off suicide bombers as martyers and left with no recourse other than to blow up kids on a bus. To shoot down this URL and not mention the other vanity trash reeks of onesidism.

[Darranar]

13. Post a link to one...

just one. That shouldn't be too hard... if what you claim is true, that is.

[LastDemInIdaho]

18. Why stop at one? Here's a few

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/evolution/story.php?sid=20030910193427502
...in addition to a martyr (killed by Israeli Occupation Forces “IOF”) in Gaza.”

The IOF on Tuesday killed a Palestinian man identified as Ahmed Uthman Bader in Hebron, claiming he was a “wanted” Hamas member, in a fresh extra-judicial assassination.

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/evolution/story.php?sid=20030827192631320
Hamlavi, 65, was martyred on Tuesday night, when Israeli helicopters opened fire at residential houses in Jibaliya Camp.

http://www.mediareviewnet.com/Suicide%20bombers.htm
The recurrent reference to the word ‘martyr’, divorced from any real
explanation of Palestinians' suffering under Israel’s
military occupation, paints a frightening portrait of the Palestinians as
a people eager to die and kill in a holy war against
Israel. For most Americans, the thought of a Palestinian "martyr"
conjures up an image of a young man strapped with explosives on
a quest to slaughter innocent people in cafes and discotheques. What is
completely missing from this skewed view, however, is the
fact that all Palestinians killed by Israelis -- and not just suicide
bombers -- are considered to be martyrs.

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/evolution/story.php?sid=20030823000313276
Amid a forest of Palestinian and Hamas flags, a group of gun-toting resistance fighters from the armed wing of Hamas - Ezzedin al-Qassam Brigades – vowed to avenge the 'new martyrs', chanting: "Tel Aviv, here we come! We will be martyrs!"
Top Hamas leader Abdelaziz al-Rantissi, who narrowly escaped an Israeli attempt on his life on June 10, asserted that "Israel had killed the truce stone dead with the first missile fired at martyr Abu Shanab’s car."

Vowing to strike hard and in every place, he told IslamOnline.net that "Hamas will resume its martyr operations against the Israeli occupation.

"Hamas only option is shattering strikes across historical Palestine (including the now Israel)."

===============

Calling terrorists martyrs is their justification.

[Darranar]

19. And when were they posted here?

n/t

[Darranar]

20. BTW, PalestineChronicle.com...

never called them martyrs. They gave a report about what happened.

[rini]

38. Now there's

a great unbiased site!:argh:

[Darranar]

42. Did I call it unbiased?

No, for some strange reason I don't seem to remember myself calling it that.

Of course, it's tame in comparison to Arutz Sheva (:puke:) or Israeli National News (:puke:).

[Aidoneus]

24. that's nice.. but could you please back up your bullshit?

a paper referring to someone else referring to them as martyrs is one thing, what you claimed previously is quite another. I don't think Hamlavi fits the bill for a human-bomb suspect, so you might want to actually look at what you're referring to if 'not looking stupid' is your intent.. you did actually read what you were putting forward to back up your dubious claims before posting them, right? As it stands, you're just another pro-Israel fanatic spouting dishonest accusations and trash, which there is unfortunately no shortage of around here.

Your original post, repasted in case you have already forgotten your own silly claims:

LastDemInIdaho (139 posts)
Mon Sep-15-03 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #7

12. I've seen worse vanity sites posted here

Some of which brush off suicide bombers as martyers and left with no recourse other than to blow up kids on a bus. To shoot down this URL and not mention the other vanity trash reeks of onesidism.

[Tinoire]

27. Oh the stars above...

Is this really the best you can do?

Could you please link to some threads... and just to be very clear, some threads where the quote/unquote "pro-Palestinian" side (since it seems incomprehensible to some that one is simply pro-Peace/Justice) is posting anything other than a story where the person is referred to that way by the author as opposed to stories or opinion pieces glorifying and excusing despicable behavior?

[Tinoire]

15. Please link to one.

This ought to be really interesting.

[Forkboy]

35. We're waiting

<taps fingers>

[Jackie97]

9. What's the moral of the story?

The moral of the story is that almost everything that the United States does in the Middle East has to do with oil in one way or the other.

Of course, I support the United States in telling Israel not to kill Arafat and for telling Sharon to back off last year during "Operation Defense Shield". That doesn't change the fact the United States is asking Israel to behave better than they would. Why? It's for the oil. It's all for the oil. It's always been about the oil for the government of the United States. Look at the outcomes of the war with Afghanistan and Iraq. You'll see what I mean.

And yes, Israel has been making a mistake by acting like they need the United States. It makes them look weak. I hope I'm not deleted for saying that. As long as the United States is giving them money, they can rely on it to keep getting away with occupation. As long as the United States keeps giving Israel their support, Israel knows that the UN will stay off of their back and won't put real force into trying to stop their occupation. When Israel stops relying upon the United States, they will be forced to take responsibility. They will have to negotiate peace, and actually mean it. They will have to end their occupation. Once Israel takes responsibility for their own actions and solve their own problems (instead of trying to get away with everything because they know that the United States will let them), then they'll have peace for the most part. They will also have pride in knowing that they don't need anybody to help them stay in existence.

[StandWatie]

11. you are exactly right

The US is really Israel's worst enemy when it comes down to it, they didn't start Israel down the track to becoming the next Prussia but they aided and put the process into hyperdrive after '67.

[dudeness]

16. the racist overtones in this forum disgust me..

n/t

[Darranar]

17. They disgust me too

n/t

[Tinoire]

28. You are not the only one

but as long as you drape yourself in an Israeli flag, you can justify any despicable feelings as being 'progressive' and acceptable.

This forum has made my Jewish friends angry at the things that were being pawned off as Jewish Progressive thought.

Please do stick around though because you're in for a real treat and a real eye-opening experience. Furthermore, it will be a real education about how much hatred the Palestinians have been and are subjected to by all too people.

But you know, it will also be an eye-opening experience to learn that not all Jews or Israelis subscribe to this type of racism and that they are fighting back, no longer willing to stand by silently as the right-wing raises the tempo in the failing attempt to drown them out. Yes you will be disgusted but you will also have hope and your support will fuel more people to speak out, to break ranks and to condemn the ugliness.

[Jackie97]

30. What else do you expect out of that forum?

Just once, I would like to see a "pro-Israeli" forum that wasn't racist.

[Tinoire]

31. They do exist

Go to Jews for Peace... It's a welcome relief. Will help keep you sane and give you hope that maybe one day, the saner voices will drown out the racists.

On edit: There are quite a few others too. Reposting this just for you. Many/some of these sites have forums... This was really a list of Progressive Sites... If you would like a list of Progressive forums, let me know ok?

Americans for Peace Now

Bat Shalom

Bereaved Families Forum

http://brittzedek.orgBrit Tzedek V Shalom: Jewish Alliance for Justice and Peace[br />

Grassroots International

Israeli-Palestinian Bereaved Families for Peace

International Solidarity Movement

Jewish Unity for a Just Peace (JUNITY)

A Jewish Voice for Peace

Jewish Voices Against the Occupation of Palestinian Territories (JVAO)

Jews for Peace in Palestine and Israel

Gush Shalom

Gush Shalom Forum

MADRE

Pax Christi International

Rabbis for Human Rights

Tikkun

Ta ayush: An Israeli-Arab partnership[br />

OTHER RESOURCES:

A historic wrong?
URL: http://www.fpif.org/outside/commentary/0112occupation.html
Description: Foreign Policy In Focus argues that the Israeli occupation is a historic wrong on the scale of slavery and apartheid, and that it must be ended in order to break the cycle of violence.

Americans for Peace Now
URL: http://www.peacenow.org/stand.html
Description: In their policy statement, Americans for Peace Now, the U.S. partner of the Israeli organization Shalom Achshav, compellingly argue that Israel has as much to gain from a Palestinian state as Palestinians do. APN believes that forging a lasting peace with the Palestinians is not only compatible with the Zionist position, but is necessary if Israel is to preserve its Jewish and democratic character.

Bitter Lemons
URL: http://www.bitterlemons.org/previous/bl070102ed1.html
Description: In this edition of Bitter Lemons, a weekly cross-fire produced and edited by Ghassan Khatib, a Palestinian, and Yossi Alpher, an Israeli, editorialists present Palestinian and Israeli views on the state of peace in the region. Although no consensus is reached per se, all contributors see the dead-locked peace process as the result of irrational mistrust and fear on both sides, as well as a failure to learn from past mistakes.

Brief History of Middle East Conflict
URL: http://www.mideastweb.org/BriefHistory.htm
Description: A summary of the history of the region from 2000 BC to the present.

Compassionate Listening Project
URL: http://www.mideastdiplomacy.org/clp.html
Description: The Compassionate Listening Project, a major initiative of the US-based MidEast Citizen Diplomacy group, brings together people from both sides of the conflict. By meeting and talking with the people they perceive as their enemies, participants begin to break down stereotypes and reconcile with each other.

Displaced Palestinians.
URL: http://peace.moveon.org/r.php3?redir=78
Description: One of the main obstacles in the way of the creating a lasting peace agreement is the question of whether displaced Palestinians should be allowed to return home. A good explanation of both Palestinian and Israeli views on this issue.

Effects of Israeli Occupation
URL: http://www.arij.org/paleye/
Description: Applied Research Institute's "Eye on Palestine" offers frequent reports on the regional effects of Israeli occupation.

Foundation for Middle East Peace
URL: http://www.fmep.org/
Description: The website of the Foundation for Middle East Peace contains articles and more comprehensive information on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. The site publishes a biweekly settlement report, which according to the Foundation, is "known as the authoritative English-language source for information about settlements and the settler community" and "is used by diplomats, journalists, students and other interested parties in the Middle East, the United States and elsewhere for concise, accurate updates on this central aspect of Israeli policy in territories occupied in June 1967".

International Solidarity Movement
URL: http://www.palsolidarity.org
Description: "The International Solidarity Movement is a growing movement of Palestinian and international activists working to raise awareness of the Palestinian struggle for freedom and an end to Israeli occupation. We utilize non-violent, direct-action methods of resistance to confront and challenge the illegal Israeli occupation forces and policies."

Israel and September 11
URL: http://www.inthesetimes.com/issue/26/04/news1.shtml
Description: " 'For Israel, September 11 was a Hanukkah Miracle,' Israeli political and security officials recently told the newspaper Ha'aretz. Thousands of American fatalities are considered a godsend -- in this cynical world -- because their deaths helped shift international pressure from Israel onto the Palestinians, while allowing the Israeli government to pursue its regional objectives unobstructed. And indeed, in the past months, the United States has unfalteringly supported all of Israel's actions."

Israel and the War on Terrorism
URL: http://www.counterpunch.org/loewenstein.html
Description: The Israeli/Palestinian peace process has been basically demolished. Israel has appropriated the "war on terrorism" rhetoric of America to justify its actions against Palestine, while the States have remained a strong backer of the Israeli regime, despite its history of human rights abuses.

Israel Primer
URL: http://peace.moveon.org/r.php3?redir=77
Description: Learn about everyday life under Israeli rule, the reasons that Arafat rejected Israel's "best offer yet," and how the Oslo process has curbed the freedom of Palestinians in the West Bank. Plus, some thoughts about how to criticize Israeli policies while remaining supportive of Israel itself, and the vulnerability of these policies to Western pressure.

Jerusalem
URL: http://peace.moveon.org/r.php3?redir=79
Description: The city of Jerusalem, holy for Jews, Muslims, and Christians, may well be the key to creating peace in the Middle East. This article summarizes the historical and religious significance of the holy sites within Jerusalem to each faith, as well as the options being considered by negotiators for this extremely significant city.

Jewish-Arab Center for Peace Programs
URL: http://www.inter.net.il/~givat_h/givat/ctcfaqs.htm
Description: The Givat Haviva Jewish-Arab Center for Peace Programs runs the Children Teaching Children project, through which Israeli and Palestinian children learn to cope with the violence and conflict that are a part of their everyday lives, and learn to think more critically and realistically about the situation.

Jewish Peace Fellowship
URL: http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org
Description: Members of the Jewish Peace Fellowship are a diverse group of people, religious and secular Jews from all our traditions and all branches of Judaism. All believe deeply that Jewish ideals and experience provide inspiration for a nonviolent way of life. We see Jewish tradition as a continual calling toward peace, justice and compassion, a tradition whose goal is to bring all people to the consciousness that peace and not war is where we should direct our vision, energy and lives.

Jewish Voice for Peace
URL: http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
Description: "A Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) is a San Francisco Bay Area grassroots organization dedicated to the human, civil and economic rights of Jews, Palestinians, and all peoples in the Middle East. Beyond our focus on the Middle East, JVP aims to build a community of activists working together on issues of social and economic justice."

Meretz USA
URL: http://www.meretzusa.org
Description: Meretz USA: for Israeli Civil Rights and Peace is a tax-exempt educational organization that works to support full and genuine peace between the State of Israel and its neighbors in the Middle East, including the Palestinian people. The agency supports full civil and human rights for all who live in the State of Israel, as well as the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights, regardless of in whose political authority they dwell. Meretz USA firmly believes in and supports those both within and beyond the borders of outside the State of Israel working for a fair and just society for all within Israel.

Palestinian Centre for Human Rights
URL: http://www.pchrgaza.org/
Description: The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) is an independent legal body based in Gaza City dedicated to protecting human rights, promoting the rule of law, and upholding democratic principles in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

Prospects for Peace
URL: http://www.ariga.com/peacewatch/
Description: A compelling and thought-provoking analysis that portrays the peace process as doomed to fail as long as it remains inconsistent with the national goals and identities of both Israelis and Palestinians. According to this article, both sides see a continuation of the conflict as preferable to the painful compromises that might bring about peace.

Rebuilding Homes
URL: http://www.RebuildingHomes.org
Description: The Rebuilding Homes Campaign brings together Palestinians, Israelis and Internationals to rebuild homes in Palestine. In the tradition of Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela, this Palestinian and Israeli partnership is peacfully resisting the policies of Occupation by rebuilding demolished Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem, the West Band and Gaza.

Speaking Tours
URL: http://www.episcopalchurch.org/ens/2000-026.html
Description: The 70-year-old-plus wife of a former American diplomat organizes speaking tours of America by Middle Eastern women through her small organization called Partners for Peace. These women relate their personal experiences of living with the fear, war, and violence in their homeland, in the hope that Americans will gain a better understanding of the situation and want to help. The speaking tours have been phenomenally successful.

Ta'ayush Arab-Jewish Partnership
URL: http://taayush.tripod.com
Description: A group of Israeli citizens, both Arab and Jews, involved in direct action in and out of the territories.

Time line for Israeli / Palestinian conflict
URL: http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm
Description: A time line of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict from 1914 to 2001.

U.S. Involvement in Israel / Palestine
URL: http://peace.moveon.org/r.php3?redir=80
Description: 2006 will be the 50th year of American efforts to bring about an Israeli/Palestinian peace. The BBC's article on this coming anniversary summarizes these diplomatic efforts, and their failure thus far.

[Jackie97]

41. Thanks.

I actually frequent some of these sites often. As for a list of progressive forums, I think that just about everybody here might be interested in that.

[Tinoire]

43. I'll start working on on

It would be an interesting exercise to compare true progressive talk with what passes for progressive thought here.

Maybe I'm blind but I've never seen any posts about Palestinians having their own distinct "odor" or people getting aroused at the words "kill Arafat" in those forums.

Never seen anyone apologizing for Sharon's atrocities either. Go figure :shrug:

[Jackie97]

44. Yeah, but....

They might be aroused at the thought of Sharon dying and make apologies for Arafat. It's a two sided coin. I can personally live with that. I just like the idea of being able to discuss this topic without it turning into a flamewar. This board is actually better than others on this subject though.

[Forkboy]

36. Join the club

sadly I dont think admin sees it that way.

[rini]

39. Yes there are

but even Islamists are allowed to spew their garbage.

[Resistance]

45. Islamists?

what group exactly, are you referring to?

[Darranar]

46. "Islamist"...

means Islamic extremist. It clearly stinks of racism ("Judaist," anyone?), but it is used by a few unbigoted people nevertheless.

[Resistance]

21. .

If I wanted to read racism and propaganda from a board for right-wing dopes I would go to IsraelForum.com, not DemocraticUnderground.

[LastDemInIdaho]

22. I'd go to palestinechronicle.com for the ultimate racism

Yet I see it posted here as a valid source.

[Darranar]

23. First of all, I've never seen it posted except by you...

second of all, what's so racist about it?

[LastDemInIdaho]

25. Try these

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forum_archive_html/DCForumID30/1510.html#4

http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID30/8467.html

[newyorican]

26. Try again

These are some pretty moronic red herrings.

[Tinoire]

29. Wow

1. Those are news pieces reporting facts which is a far cry from the opinion pieces posted from right-wing Israeli sites.

2. You really don't expect people to get all their news on Palestine from the Israelis do you? Lord if we did that, we'd get nothing but tales about happy darkies sitting around drinking mint juleps all day long on a communal plantation.

3. Try again. Find me a thread where anyone in this forum is glorifying despicable actions. Yes, please find me the Pro-Palestinian equivalent of "Kill Arafat" (with posters getting aroused at the thought) or "Palestinians have a distinct odor" . If you need more equivalents, I would be happy to provide you some because there have been plenty- especially these last few months.

[Gimel]

32. Absolute bunk

These reports are distorted beyond recognition. Anyone who believes them should be ashamed of themselves.

Edited for clarity.

[Violet_Crumble]

34. You said you were going to post examples of racism...

Glad I wasn't holding my breath waiting for you to produce anything that actually contained racism....


Violet...

[Forkboy]

37. If other dems in Idaho are like this

we should be glad it's the last one.

[Equinox]

40. Ain't nothing but shit.

And I didn't even read the article!!!!!!!

I'm following in the path of my favorite poster!

:eyes: