Jewish Virtual Library's Fact Sheet on Proportionality (July 20, 2006)

[furman]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/13_%20Proportionality.html

Jewish Virtual Library
Fact Sheets
#13 - Proportionality
(July 20, 2006)

Israel seeks peace and is still waiting for leaders of the Palestinians and the other Arab states at war with Israel to step forward and follow the examples of Anwar Sadat and King Hussein by ceasing their support for terror and resuming negotiations. Until that happens, Israel must take prudent security measures to protect its citizens.

In responding to the acts of war perpetrated by Hamas and Hizballah, Israel has launched a military campaign to end the threat posed by these two terrorist groups that have each kidnaped Israeli soldiers and unleashed a barrage of rockets on the civilian population of Israel. In prosecuting the war, Israel has come under fire for using “disproportionate” force, but how do you determine the proportionate use of military force?

Since Hizballah’s stated objective is the destruction of Israel, isn’t the appropriate response the destruction of Hizballah? Wouldn’t random missile strikes on Lebanese and Palestinian cities be proportionate to Hamas and Hizballah rocket attacks on northern and southern Israel? Can you imagine any of Israel’s critics accepting those responses?

When Palestinian terrorists plant bombs at Israeli shopping malls and kill and maims dozens of civilians, would the “proportionate response” be for Israelis to plant bombs in Palestinian malls? No one in Israel believes this would be a legitimate use of force. Thus, Israel is left with the need to take measured action against specific targets in an effort to either deter Palestinian violence or stop it.

more at http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/13_%20Proportionality.html

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[msongs]

1. the destruction of lebanon does NOT equal destruction of hezbollah

biased hogwash passing itself off as justification. twisted logic that does not compute.

hezbollah's proclaimed destruction of Israel means the destruction of Israel.

Israelis desire to destroy hezbollah by destroying everything else in lebanon that is non hezbollah is NOT equivalent.

go for it, wreck hezbollah and its minions if that's what is desired, just don't try to pass off destroying EVERYONE else as
legitimate justification.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[furman]

5. Please respond with facts disputing the article

What is the twisted logic?

I was not aware that Israel is destroying all of Lebanon, just Hezbollah bases and infrastructure they use.
It is unfortunate that many of the targets are in densely populated civilian areas.
It is not meant as "collective punishment", however.

[barb162]

9. How does one get Lez leaders hiding behind women and

children in Beirut

[Violet_Crumble]

12. By killing the women and children...

..and then relying on the likes of Dershowitz to write articles deeming them Not Real Civilians Coz They Waz Hidin' Those Darn Terrorists! ;)

[bemildred]

2. Seems more like an "Opinion sheet". nt

[Scurrilous]

3. LOL

:thumbsup:

[TomClash]

4. This is about as "factual" as

the Protocols of Zion.

What garbage.

[wellst0nev0ter]

6. Turkey's Having The Same Problem With The Kurds

Should they respond by bombing Baghdad Airport?

schmendricks.

[MrPrax]

7. Your confused...

These are talking points for Supporters of Israel to use when engaging Unbelievers...yer suppose to keep these sites among yourselves....if you tell us, then we'll know where your 'paste and copy' argument is from and then we can go and look and then refute it easier ;-)

For Instance:

From Fact Sheet #1: Jenin

Question from press:

How do you respond to the allegation that there was a massacre in Jenin and Israel is trying to cover it up by preventing a UN investigation?

Sample Answer:

Thank you for asking that question since it gives me an opportunity to set the record straight. Like any democracy, Israel not only has a right to defend its citizens - it has a moral obligation to protect its women, children and other civilians from homicide bombers who would kill a teenager who goes to the supermarket or a child who goes for a walk.
...

How is peace possible when Palestinian terrorists use refugees as shields, and refugees are forced to allow terrorists to establish bases in their homes, their churches, their schools, and their communities?

While trying to avoid endangering civilians, 23 Israeli soldiers were killed in bitter combat in Jenin, where Palestinian terrorists used bombs, grenades, booby-traps and machine guns to turn the camp into a war zone. Much of the destruction was caused by Palestinian bombs.

Israel prefers to take diplomatic action at the negotiating table, :rofl: but when forced to defend the freedom of its citizens, the military will attack military targets and terrorists. By contrast, Palestinian terrorists target restaurants, places of worship, schools and busy streets - with many attacks taking place on the Sabbath. Israel's goal is to eliminate terrorism. The goal of the Palestinian terrorists is to inflict as much pain on as many civilians as possible.

One-Stop Script Shop

LOL...you guys are losing it.
Do you figure we are SUPPOSE to help you look for holes in your own arguments or something?

Why not try honesty for a change...jeez

[barb162]

8. well done

Sometimes when one hears about one rocket for one rocket, to be proportional almost means some would not be happy unless Israel should have a suicider for every suicider the Pals have. Or else it aint a fair fight, it's a war crime or whatever. It gets way past absurdity, doesn't it? This was excellent: "When Palestinian terrorists plant bombs at Israeli shopping malls and kill and maims dozens of civilians, would the “proportionate response” be for Israelis to plant bombs in Palestinian malls? No one in Israel believes this would be a legitimate use of force."

[Violet_Crumble]

11. Why do you call Palestinians 'Pals'?

I've only ever seen the word 'Pal' used in a derogatory context by folk like the creeps over at LGF, so I'm wondering why this derogatory term is now in vogue at DU?

[4dsc]

10. Why the BULLSHIT!! This should be locked too

A previous thread was locked for what appears to be BS reasoning and I see now difference here!!

As the moderator previously stated:



Please use discretion when referencing obviously biased or factually questionable material. Vanity websites are generally not as credible as the New York Times, the Washington Post or the UK Guardian and are likely to be locked. A good rule of thumb is to ask yourself is the author readily identifiable and likely to be cited by the mainline world press or encountered in an alternate format (mass-published book, academic journal, newspaper article, radio or TV show).

The website cited is not only the vanity site for a singular individual, it is considered highly biased and misleading in it's representation of facts and events and thus too unreliable for use.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. Yep, this is bullshit...

I've got no idea why some threads that are started in violation of the I/P rules are being allowed to stay open while others are locked. This one isn't even a recent news article or op-ed...

[jonnyblitz]

14. this thread/ info should be in the fiction forum of DU

I just looked at the site. :eyes:

[Violet_Crumble]

15. I found out first-hand how interested in facts that site is...

A few years back I got in touch with them to point out that something they'd quoted supposedly from the Peel Commission was incorrect, gave them the correct bit they seemed to be trying to quote, and waited for them to change it. Nothing happened. No suprises there, i guess :)

[undergroundrailroad]

16. Locking per I/P Guidelines

Please follow the guidelines when posting a new thread in Israeli/Palestinian Forum.

If you have any questions, please contact myself or Lithos.

Thank you.

Undergroundrailroad
DU Moderator
Israeli/Palestinian Forum