The 'Catch-22' Plight of Imprisoned Spy Jonathan Pollard

[Cassandra]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-viorst19sep19,1,5232923.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

" The prosecution never claimed that Pollard violated his part of the bargain. It kept its own promise to ask the judge to go lightly on Pollard's wife, but he nonetheless gave her the maximum term of five years as an accessory. Dutifully, the prosecutors did not recommend a life term for Pollard, but then something strange happened. Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger delivered to the judge a 46-page memorandum that called for a punishment that reflected "the magnitude of the treason committed."

In fact, Pollard was not charged with treason, which the Constitution defines as betraying the country to the enemy in wartime. In the judgment of legal experts, in addition to this damaging misstatement the memo effectively urged a life term for Pollard. The judge complied.
<snip>
I sat in the courtroom listening to the government's case, which seemed to contain the elements of a "Catch-22." A government attorney said the memo remained top secret because it contained data that were still vital to national security. But he added that the data were irrelevant to Pollard's defense because they were more than 16 years old, thus out of date. "

Technically, this is really about a court case, but I put it here for the obvious reasons.
It sounds like something weird is going on here and I, for one, would like to know what it is. Given that this mess came from Weinberger, ass-coverer; who has something to hide here?

[Gimel]

1. Sadder and sadder

But what can you do against the superpower that is pro-Israel? A real catch-22 for Pollard and for Israel.

[papau]

2. pro-Israel at the top - but anti-Israel in the Pentagon/CIA, so when

Pollard embarrassed folks by exposing how we promise help to Israel - and then withhold it (for many different reasons - some not anti-Semitic) - he had to be punished.

But then we do this to most nations. And indeed to most folks that cause the powerful embarrassment.

[newyorican]

3. Cry me a river...

for a fucking spy. Nice priorities.

[Cassandra]

5. Get over it being about a spy

and wonder about what this says about our justice system, especially now that Ashcroft's in charge. Try focusing on the people who are really ruining this country; and it's not Israelis.

[newyorican]

7. You get over it...

if you want to. I was serving in NATO when this fuckface betrayed us (that's us, as in you and me...). He will rot in prison till he dies. He deserves no better fate than some Hamas suicide bomber. It's the height of chauvanistic hypocrisy to whine about Pollard being locked up forever, nothing more.

[tinnypriv]

12. Right on

:thumbsup:

[Evil_Dewers]

9. Oh, the Israelis are not ruining this county...

but the Israeli lobby and our "Israel can do no wrong" politicians are. Israel can survive without the US (free money and loans that probably won't be paid back and US arms).

Israel has nukes--(probably given to them by the US in violation of the NNPT--nuclear non-proliferation treaty). That is a treaty which Israel refused to sign. North Korea just withdrew from the NNPT.

They can defend themselves.

Oh, and how did Israel thank the US for $4 billion each year in US taxpayer money, $9 billion in low or no interest loans, Apache helicopters and US tanks, and the undying hatred of the Arab world?

Why, they fucking spied on us. When does an ally become an enemy?

Saudi Arabia claims to be a US ally. They lie. Israel spies on us. Yet TommyBoy "Nuts" Friedman says we are at war with France since they won't suck Bush's little member.

Stop the madness.

[newyorican]

13. Everybody spies on everybody...

that's not the point. What was stolen by Pollard was the RAISIN manuals. They were the complete "how-to" guide to signal intel including how to exploit the "enemy" communications infrastructure and cryptology codes and methods.

The RAISIN manuals were sold to the Soviets by "someone"...not by Pollard because he was caught. That came out *after* the USSR disintegrated that the Soviets had aquired the RAISIN manuals and were engaged in systematic disinformation to counter the methods detailed in the manual. That (comprimised sigint), along with incompetent humint, is why no one saw the fall of the USSR coming.

That's the point. The Israelis sold it to the Soviets. Now they want to claim Pollard as "their spy" when he's really an all-american traitor. Fuck them and fuck him.

[Cassandra]

15. Apparently it was Aldrich Ames who claimed that...

the Israelis sold that material to the Soviets. Ames had much more motivation to do the sale and pin it on the Israelis, than Israel had to sell it to the Soviets in the first place. Do you really want to put your trust in our home-grown traitors, just because you hate Israel so much?
And could you manage not to contradict yourself in one post.
"What was stolen by Pollard was the RAISIN manuals.
<snip>
The RAISIN manuals were sold to the Soviets by "someone"...not by Pollard because he was caught."

Make up your mind. If he couldn't have stolen them, he didn't.

The point of this editorial is not that Pollard is innocent, but to question why he is being treated so much more harshly than others who have done much more damage. If Hanssen gets out before Pollard, will you then wonder what the hell is going on?

[newyorican]

17. mindreading,eh... Can you read my palm?

Do you really want to put your trust in our home-grown traitors, just because you hate Israel so much?

Do you have proof of this supposed hatred? Please share it.

"What was stolen by Pollard was the RAISIN manuals.
<snip>
The RAISIN manuals were sold to the Soviets by "someone"...not by Pollard because he was caught."

Make up your mind. If he couldn't have stolen them, he didn't.

Well this proves you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Pollard successfully transferred the intel to Israel. He got caught trying to contact the Soviets. There is no contradiction here other than the one I mention in my post #11.

The point of this editorial is not that Pollard is innocent, but to question why he is being treated so much more harshly than others who have done much more damage. If Hanssen gets out before Pollard, will you then wonder what the hell is going on?

Your questions are better addressed to the DOJ, but IMO given the way Israel treats its own war criminals (hello Mr. PM) I say Pollard stays right where he is. To hell with him and anyone else that thinks Pollard is going to get the "hero treatment" in this lifetime.

[Evil_Dewers]

6. I agree...

Fuck Pollard. He's a fucking spy.

[mmm]

4. All spies should spend life in the can

This guy paid for his nice little room, let him enjoy the stay

[Cassandra]

8. Except they mostly don't

only this one is. What makes Pollard more heinous than those who spied for the Soviet Union?

[Evil_Dewers]

10. Umm...

the Soviet Union is no more. Israel, who elects terrorists to be their PMs, needs to stop bitching that "Yasser Arafat is a terrorist who must be expelled/murdered." Can you say "hypocrisy?" In this age of "justified pre-emption," doesn't Yasser the scum sucking pig have every right to take out Ariel Sharon before Yasser is taken out by Ariel the terrorist?

[Cassandra]

14. Arafat could take out Sharon...

but since Sharon would then likely be replaced by Netanyahu, Arafat wouldn't have won anything. If this is Arafat's reasoning, that makes him slightly smarter than Sharon, who keeps putting Arafat in the spotlight. If only Sharon would put him on "ignore", we might get somewhere.

[newyorican]

11. A better question is...

What about Pollard has you so interested in seeing a traitor get out of prison?

For someone that cheers firing missles into civilian populations to get one bad guy, your position on Pollard appears radically different for some reason.

[Cassandra]

16. An editorial wandered on to my monitor

and I found it interesting. I don't know if I want him out of prison, but I do want to know why our government is so intent on keeping him there.
When have I ever "cheered firing missles into civilian populations to get one bad guy"? I am grateful when they don't kill anyone but their target but you seem to prefer that all terrorists roam free.

[rini]

24. As I mentioned previously

Pollard is a spy, period. But, he is responsible for no American lives lost. His 20 years served is equal to other spys of his caliber, let the man go.

[newyorican]

25. *If* Pollard is ever released...

He will be treated as a hero in Israel. That will never happen. Tough shit.

[bemildred]

18. Treason is very difficult to prove.

I would wager that Pollard is still in Jail
because the GOI and GOUSA want him there, but
that is just an opinion. I put little weight
on all the public hand-wringing over his case.

The intervention of Weinerberger and the complete
stonewall on the case seem indicative of this sort
of explanation. Why, I don't know, although I
would bet part of it is keeping his mouth shut.
But he also seems a handy distraction when the news
is otherwise unappetizing, I have noticed he comes
up a lot lately.

Not that I care all that much, he got in bed with
assholes and woke up with cooties all over him.

[Darranar]

19. Well...

is the danger to the US from him over? if so, fine, let him out.

[rini]

20. wasn't this garbage

posted about 2 weeks ago?

[Darranar]

21. Not the same article, no.

n/t

[rini]

22. different article, same agenda

[Darranar]

23. So?

Every article posted has the same "agenda" as at least one before it.