*** 1.5 million people in Gaza on the edge of STARVATION ***

[katinmn]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1372026.ece
'Gaza is a jail. Nobody is allowed to leave. We are all starving now'
By Patrick Cockburn in Gaza
Published: 08 September 2006

Gaza is dying. The Israeli siege of the Palestinian enclave is so tight that its people are on the edge of starvation. Here on the shores of the Mediterranean a great tragedy is taking place that is being ignored because the world's attention has been diverted by wars in Lebanon and Iraq.

A whole society is being destroyed. There are 1.5 million Palestinians imprisoned in the most heavily populated area in the world. Israel has stopped all trade. It has even forbidden fishermen to go far from the shore so they wade into the surf to try vainly to catch fish with hand-thrown nets.

Many people are being killed by Israeli incursions that occur every day by land and air. A total of 262 people have been killed and 1,200 wounded, of whom 60 had arms or legs amputated, since 25 June, says Dr Juma al-Saqa, the director of the al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City which is fast running out of medicine. Of these, 64 were children and 26 women. This bloody conflict in Gaza has so far received only a fraction of the attention given by the international media to the war in Lebanon.

It was on 25 June that the Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit was taken captive and two other soldiers were killed by Palestinian militants who used a tunnel to get out of the Gaza Strip. In the aftermath of this, writes Gideon Levy in the daily Haaretz, the Israeli army "has been rampaging through Gaza - there's no other word to describe it - killing and demolishing, bombing and shelling, indiscriminately". Gaza has essentially been reoccupied since Israeli troops and tanks come and go at will. In the northern district of Shajhayeh they took over several houses last week and stayed five days. By the time they withdrew, 22 Palestinians had been killed, three houses were destroyed and groves of olive, citrus and almond trees had been bulldozed.

[porphyrian]

1. No one is sending them food?

I understand the Israelis wanting to inspect any shipments for weapons, but I'm sure they'd allow food in. Nobody wants to send them food instead of weapons and explosives?

[katinmn]

4. Appears to be a total blockade. See Lebanon.

[porphyrian]

5. They would only do that conditionally.

Who in Gaza isn't coming forward to be arrested for them to drop the blockade?

[katinmn]

11. All entry and exit points have been closed since June 25

Aside from that, your question is unclear. Please restate.

"Who in Gaza isn't coming forward to be arrested for them to drop the blockade?"

[Usrename]

17. How can we blame the victims for their plight?

Seems like a straightforward question to me.

[porphyrian]

19. Israel wouldn't simply cut off all ins and outs completely...

...unless they were doing so with a condition, such as certain people come forward to authorities, or some other condition to be met. Perhaps I should've made it more clear. What condition are they requiring be met before they allow food in? And why aren't Palestinians meeting it if they are starving?

[Usrename]

26. Wouldn't that be a war crime if they made such a condition?

Just wondering, because I was under the impression that some of the defendants at Nuremberg were hanged for that sort of thing.

:shrug:

[Violet_Crumble]

44. I'd imagine it would be...

Even without knowing for sure, the attitude of deliberately withholding food from a population until conditions are met is a morally bankrupt one....

[breakaleg]

30. It sounds like you are defending Israel by implying they had a reason

to close off Gaza. Even if they did have a reason, the people who are suffering are not the people who are in a position to meet any demand that they make.

But I get the impression you knew that.

[pelsar]

31. actually the people are in a position

in case you missed it, when the palestenains do protest their authority is responsive...sometimes they protest with guns other times not, but the authorities are very sensitive to the protests (partially because of the nearness to a civil war).

Israel, as its shown with jordan and Egypt does not expect 100% results, it does expect,, that the PA do their best, that they try....they never did, nor are they now.

one can agree or disagree with israel, but pretending the palestenians have no power to affect their govt is simply wrong or ignorent.

[breakaleg]

32. Just like Americans control what Bush does...not.

[pelsar]

41. no...

the palestenains are not living in america, bush is not their president, hamas is not the congress, Fatah does not have an parallel in the US, militias are running around america, no one is shooting missiles at canada, america is not on the virge of a civil war...etc

in fact your attempt at comparison is absurd, but it does show how little you actually understand about the palestenian culture to even attempt such a comparison.

[breakaleg]

43. really? they are asking person A to return the soldier and punishing

person B when person A doesn't comply.

I think you are so immersed in the Israeli propaganda that you find excuses for the inexcusable.

[Tom Joad]

48. Not person B, but a whole population is being starved.

[breakaleg]

49. agree. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible in anticipation

of the response - give him less to split hairs over.

[Violet_Crumble]

46. Israelis are also in a position...

..to do the same. But while yr post has appeared in reply to posts talking about withholding food from the Palestinian population until conditions are met, I doubt very much that you'd be as amenable to such a suggestion if it was aimed at Israelis...

[Tom Joad]

35. What kind of government starves a whole population unless political

goals are met?

A terrorist government, of course.

[Waya]

58. Oh, please.......

...Israel wouldn't simply cut off all ins and outs......Right! Because they're nothing if not ethical....and, yes, setting conditions before food gets to a starving population would constitute a Crime against Humanity.....

[Tom Joad]

39. Blaming the Victims, Killing them softly with hunger and want.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[GreenPartyVoter]

3. I think that was the point.

[Jcrowley]

6. Appalling to say the least

I also believe much of mail delivery has been curtailed.

What is Europe's responsibility in all of this. If they pressed the US vigorously it would have impcat yet silence.
And that silence means complicity.

[xchrom]

7. well, that should teach those palestinians a thing or two

about being where they weren't wanted.

:sarcasm:

[Usrename]

18. Most of them are OK, it's the uppity ones that are the problem.

:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

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[katinmn]

10. Palestinians forced to scavenge for food on rubbish dumps

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1431114.ece
Palestinians forced to scavenge for food on rubbish dumps
By Patrick Cockburn in Jerusalem
Published: 09 September 2006

The Israeli military and economic siege of Gaza has led to a collapse in Palestinian living conditions and many people only survive by looking for scraps of food in rubbish dumps, say international aid agencies.

"The pressure and tactics have not resulted in a desire for compromise," Karen Abuzayd, the head of the UN Relief and Works Agency is said to have warned. "But rather they have created mass despair, anger and a sense of hopelessness and abandonment."

Israel closed the entry and exit points into the Gaza Strip, home to 1.5 million Palestinians, on 25 June and has conducted frequent raids and bombings that have killed 262 people and wounded 1,200. The crisis in Gaza has been largely ignored by the rest of the world, which has been absorbed by the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon.

"Women in Gaza tell me they are eating only one meal a day, bread with tomatoes or cheap vegetables," said Kirstie Campbell of the UN's World Food Programme, which is feeding 235,000 people. She added that in June, since when the crisis has worsened, some 70 per cent of people in Gaza could not meet their family's food needs. "People are raiding garbage dumps," she said.

[cali]

12. The situation in Gaza is awful

and the Israeli actions are to be deplored, but there is not a holocaust occuring and people are not starving to death. The U.N. is operating in Gaza, and there is a border with Egypt. Overstating the situation by calling it a Holocaust, or by stating that people in Gaza are starving to death, is inaccurate. Things are bad enough under the Israeli occupation without the use of hyperbole.

[katinmn]

13. According to aid agencies and the reporter who is there they are starving.

yesterday: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1372026.ece
today: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1431114.ece

[cali]

14. As I said it's a deplorable situation

but neither article by Mr. Cockburn provides any evidence that people are dying of starvation. He cites no authorities who claim that anyone has died of starvation. Israel is certainly to be condemned for their actions in Gaza whether people are actually starving to death or not, but I stand by my first post. In addition, I'm confused about the Rafah crossing, and how the Israelis can be the ones in control of it. Does anyone understand why the Egyptians simply don't open it, or at least open it for relief supplies?

[katinmn]

15. Good question. Here's what Reuters reported this week on Rafah

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L05517577.htm

JERUSALEM, Sept 5 (Reuters) - European monitors could be withdrawn from the border between Gaza and Egypt later this year amid concerns about Israeli restrictions on performing their duties, European officials said on Tuesday.

"We cannot continue like this," a European official said.

The Rafah border crossing has been closed for all but 7 days since an Israeli soldier was captured by Palestinian militants on a cross-border raid on June 25.

Israel responded to the raid by launching a major ground and air offensive that has killed more than 200 Palestinians in Gaza, about half of them civilians.

----------------------------------------------------------
As far as the starvation question, who is there to give an official report? It's not like they have a functioning, funded government with many bureaucrats filing reports. Aid has been cut off and Arab nations have been pressured by the U.S. not to make bank transfers to Gaza. Further, Western diplomats cannot access the area (See Reuters article.) All we have are reports from reporters and aid workers from the UN and human rights organizations who are our only eyes and ears there.

It should be a cause for alarm that so little information is able to come out of Gaza. We can pooh-pooh the reports of starvation but isn't that denying that there is a humanitarian crisis?

This area needs attention, badly!

[Jcrowley]

24. Palestinians forced to scavenge for food on rubbish dumps

Palestinians forced to scavenge for food on rubbish dumps
By Patrick Cockburn in Jerusalem
Published: 09 September 2006

The Israeli military and economic siege of Gaza has led to a collapse in Palestinian living conditions and many people only survive by looking for scraps of food in rubbish dumps, say international aid agencies.

"The pressure and tactics have not resulted in a desire for compromise," Karen Abuzayd, the head of the UN Relief and Works Agency is said to have warned. "But rather they have created mass despair, anger and a sense of hopelessness and abandonment."

Israel closed the entry and exit points into the Gaza Strip, home to 1.5 million Palestinians, on 25 June and has conducted frequent raids and bombings that have killed 262 people and wounded 1,200. The crisis in Gaza has been largely ignored by the rest of the world, which has been absorbed by the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon.

"Women in Gaza tell me they are eating only one meal a day, bread with tomatoes or cheap vegetables," said Kirstie Campbell of the UN's World Food Programme, which is feeding 235,000 people. She added that in June, since when the crisis has worsened, some 70 per cent of people in Gaza could not meet their family's food needs. "People are raiding garbage dumps," she said.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1431114.ece

[Jcrowley]

25. A message from Israeli Doctors

The statement said that there are sick patients in the Gaza Strip who are "sentenced to a slow death" due to the fact that they are not permitted or able to enter Israel or Egypt for further medical treatment. Due to the lack of radiology treatment, cancer patients face a particularly gruelling future.

Ash-Shifa Hospital told the Israel delegation that, at the scene of an Israeli attack, ambulances are not allowed to access the injured without permission from the Israeli army, which obviously severely hampers the medics' work. Several Palestinians have died as a result, solely due to loss of blood. Others have been harmed while trying to evacuate the injured.

The delegation was given samples of human tissue as well as Israeli shrapnel. In the hospital morgues, they saw scorched and shredded human bodies. The delegation also reported that many women and children in the Gaza Strip are suffering from malnutrition.

The delegation ended their press release by calling for a "fundamental change in Israel’s attitude".

http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=15205

[Englander]

29. Don't forget Karni.

You neglected to mention the Karni crossing, the trade terminal that has the capacity to meet the
needs of the 1.4m people in Gaza, & is therefore essential, which has been closed by the occupying
forces, the Israeli military.

[Englander]

27. 'But'.

Did you see this recent Avnery article, cali? It seems rather relevant, I'd say. :)

"Left, But…"

06-09-2006


I ONCE saw a nice sketch in a political cabaret: on the stage several people were speaking in unconnected sentences, all of which ended with the word "but". For example: "Some of my best friends are Jews, but…", "I have nothing against blacks, but…", "I really detest racism, but…"

During the recent war, I frequently heard similar phrases: "I am a leftist, but…" These words were invariably - but invariably! - followed by a rightist statement.

It seems that we have a whole community of "leftists-but", who propose the annihilation of entire Lebanese villages, the turning of Lebanon into a heap of ruins, the destruction over the heads of its inhabitants of any building where Hassan Nasrallah may (or may not) be staying. And, while we are at it, also to wipe Gaza from the face of the earth.

Encountering such sentences on TV, on the radio and in the papers, I am sometimes tempted to pray: Dear God, give me honest to goodness fascists instead of these leftists-but.

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1157640520/

[Name removed]

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[sweetheart]

20. the right to exist

what right to exist did anyone have to the exclusion of anyone else.

[Taxloss]

21. The good news is that talks could be about to resume.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5331432.stm

So hopefully this situation will be relieved very soon.

[katinmn]

22. Whoa! I responded just at the time the thread was sent to the dungeon.

Oh well. Made it to Greatest with 17 votes before getting put in a corner.

as I was saying...

This is good news - finally!

Why do you suppose, dear Taxloss, that Mr. Blair continues his strong allegiance to Bush? It has cost him dearly. It has to be more than Kool-aid.

edit: mispelled

[Taxloss]

34. Well, Blair is an ideologue. Once he's made up his mind about something,

no reasoning or argument can budge him. He is physically incapable of admitting that he has made a horrible mistake. And he has form - he was a sort of neo-liberal interventionist before Bush made it "fasionable", because he went into Kosovo and Sierra Leone despite the misgivings of his own party.

Personally, I think that he's somewhat deluded and Bush has lied to him and continues to lie to him. Blair no doubt thought he was going to get something in return - Middle East peace, it's believed, or American concessions on global warming. And Bush shafted him on both. The biggest geopolitical misjudgement in recent British history, by a very long chalk. He still sees himself as an intercessor between America and Europe, despite the fact that America ignores him and Europe despises him.

Same shit, different time:

[Englander]

28. Yes, if blair 'n Olmert, a couple of war crims make a claim -

it's automatically credible, isn't it?

Does this mean that Olmert's decided to end the use of collective punishment in the Gaza Ghetto?
Since that is what is happening, that is the policy of this rw Israeli govt.

[Taxloss]

33. Well, we'll see what happens, won't we?

Nice straw man, by the way.

[Englander]

55. What happened was entirely predictable -

blair praises Ollie, ignores any Israeli violations of any agreements, says 'roadmap', ignores the
reality that the roadmap was wrecked 3 years ago, then he places impossible demands on Hamas, lectures
the occupied on the joys of becoming peaceniks, & continues to live up to the sobriquet of 'Sun-dried
Lunatic'.

[breakaleg]

23. Israel is losing credibility in their methods a little every day.

[Tom Joad]

36. Let's hope it is more than "a little". eom

[breakaleg]

40. yes. let's hope.

[Tom Joad]

37. "It's like an appointment with a dietician" the Israeli minister joked...

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=9785

Gideon Levy explains in this article the view from the top of the Israeli regime.

The "Hamas team" (in the Israeli govt.) had not laughed so much in a long time. The team, headed by the prime minister's advisor Dov Weissglas and including the Israel Defense Forces chief of staff, the director of the Shin Bet and senior generals and officials, convened for a discussion with Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni on ways to respond to the Hamas election victory. Everyone agreed on the need to impose an economic siege on the Palestinian Authority, and Weissglas, as usual, provided the punch line: "It's like an appointment with a dietician. The Palestinians will get a lot thinner, but won't die," the advisor joked, and the participants reportedly rolled with laughter. And, indeed, why not break into laughter and relax when hearing such a successful joke? If Weissglas tells the joke to his friend Condoleezza Rice, she would surely laugh too.

[Tom Joad]

38. Does Israel recognize Palestinians right to exist?

[Name removed]

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[Tom Joad]

45. Obviously, not in actual practice. Palestinians are being

killed for being Palestinians, in Gaza.
I hope your family doesn't have to drink water out of a fish pond to survive.

[Violet_Crumble]

47. Tom was asking about the Israeli govt, wasn't he?

And since when have you been the spokesman for all Israelis, pelsar? There are more than a few Israelis who do not recognise that right....

[Name removed]

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[cali]

51. Isn't it time to retire

the battered old canard that if one criticizes Israel, one will be called an anti-semite. It rarely happens, but there are many, who want to keep that pernicious little lie dancing along.

[Name removed]

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[Violet_Crumble]

53. 'It rarely happens'????

Like hell it doesn't. It's happened way too frequently and it's happened a fair bit to me. How can you not have noticed the tendency of quite a few 'pro-Israel' sites and even posters at DU to label criticism of Israel as antisemitism?

[cali]

57. First of all, I was speaking solely of DU

I don't have the vaguest about other sites. I don't visit any of them. Second of all, the whine that "if I criticize Israel I'll be called an antisemite" is a hundred fold more common here than anyone actually being called an antisemite for said criticism. Try taking that log out of your eye and you'd note that I'm correct, and please find me all those posts that have called you an antisemite here. And as you're the one making the claim, I'd suggest it's your responsibility to produce the posts. Let me add, that there is indeed real antisemitism on DU, and a frequent conflating of Jews with Israelis.

[Violet_Crumble]

60. Yr not correct...

Why is it you resort to insults (log in eye crap) when someone dares to disagree with you, Cali?

btw, yr aware that accusations of antisemitism are deleted and I can no more produce them for you now than you can produce me real antisemitism at DU. I never asked you to produce the posts when you made claims about antisemitism at DU. It would be nice if you could pay me the same courtesy as I'm not in the habit of lying about these sorts of things...

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[Englander]

64. Here's an eg -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=148524&mesg_id=148531

;)

[Englander]

56. 'Rarely' in this instance, of course, means 'frequently'.

And 'pernicious little lie' means 'self-evident statement of fact'.

[cali]

59. Bullshit.

You see what you want to see, but the practice of saying I'll be called an antisemite is every bit as much a tactic to shut people up as is the actual use of calling someone an antisemite for criticism of Israel. And there's a lot more of the former than the latter, just as there are a lot more vehemently anti-Israel posters than there are pro Israel posters. And as someone that straddles the line- that condemns full throatedly Israels brutal occupation, yet doesn't descend into the pitfall of hatred toward either side, I feel comfortable asserting that.

[Violet_Crumble]

61. Describe this 'pitfall of hatred toward either side'...

What is it and how have you managed to avoid it? It must be hard being so different to and better than nearly everyone else at DU ;)

p.s. I hope you do understand that many folk here at DU who are critical of Israeli policy are no more 'anti-Israel' than we are 'anti-US' when we criticise the US govt. 'Anti-Israel' is such a moronic label and it's used in many cases, I suspect, as an attempt to portray those who are critical of Israeli policy as being opposed to the state of Israel itself....

[Name removed]

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[Englander]

69. So, who are they?

Who are these 'haters'? I mean, if you *know* these 'haters' exist, & are present, then you must
know the names, shurely? And, if you *know* these 'haters' exist, & are present, then why not name
& shame them?

[Englander]

63. Great post! n/t

[breakaleg]

67. I'd like to see some examples of what you consider

"the pitfall of hatred toward either side". Because I don't see any hatred here, just valid criticism of Israel's policies.

[Tom Joad]

54. Gideon Levy in the daily Haaretz...

Gideon Levy in the daily Haaretz, the Israeli army "has been rampaging through Gaza - there's no other word to describe it - killing and demolishing, bombing and shelling, indiscriminately".

[Tom Joad]

62. Drinking out of a fish pond, surviving Israeli occupation...

Fuad al-Tuba, the 61-year-old farmer who owned a farm here, said: "They even destroyed 22 of my bee-hives and killed four sheep." He pointed sadly to a field, its brown sandy earth churned up by tracks of bulldozers, where the stumps of trees and broken branches with wilting leaves lay in heaps. Near by a yellow car was standing on its nose in the middle of a heap of concrete blocks that had once been a small house.
His son Baher al-Tuba described how for five days Israeli soldiers confined him and his relatives to one room in his house where they survived by drinking water from a fish pond. "Snipers took up positions in the windows and shot at anybody who came near," he said. "They killed one of my neighbours called Fathi Abu Gumbuz who was 56 years old and just went out to get water."

[Tom Joad]

68. Alternate source for article at znet.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10918

The full article is no longer available at the original source.

[Disturbed]

70. Gaza Ghetto is starting to resemble the

Warsaw Ghetto. The irony!

[Tom Joad]

71. Except, for some reason, resisters in the Gaza ghetto are called

"terrorists".