27 Israel Pilots Refuse To Carry Out Air Strikes

[peterh]

<http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/reuters09-24-101253.asp?reg=MIDEAST>

(my post is from an unlinkable source – not the above)


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP)--A group of 27 Israeli reserve air force pilots
signed a petition Wednesday stating they'll no longer agree to carry out air
strikes against Palestinians.
The pilots called the attacks illegal and immoral.
The military had no immediate comment on the petition, an unprecedented
protest from pilots.
Dozens of reserve soldiers in ground forces have opted to go to prison rather
than serve in the West Bank and Gaza, reflecting growing Israeli unease with the
protracted conflict.




Yikes….dissention in the ranks…a tip of the cap to ya lads…

[Braden]

1. here here lads!

its about time some light gets shone on whats going on. Real patriots always dissent!

Sharon will not be happy!

[DuctapeFatwa]

2. Good to hear about some real heroes for a change! Bless them!

There are some good folks on the planet :)

[donsu]

3. see! it's not the Israeli people, it's Sharon and his gang of criminals

in cahoots with the bushgang causing the trouble.

their media is as bought and sold as ours

[UserNamesAreFree]

19. I think I heard Jimmy Carter say

in a war, the people in the conflict always want peace more than their leaders. That thought gives me some hope...

[qanda]

4. This warms my heart and gives me hope for humanity.

May they be blessed eternally.

[commander bunnypants]

5. Good

Sharon is the evil one.


DDQM

[smallprint]

6. this is the best news i've heard all week

three cheers for the refuseniks!

:toast: :toast: :toast:

[FlemingsGhost]

7. Attention U.S. service men and women!

Ponder the words "illegal and immoral."

Dissention is patriotic.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. WOW. read this part:

"Israel has an active group of conscientious objectors who have refused to serve in Palestinian territories, but the letter marks the first time that pilots protested in a separate group.
Israeli servicemen can be jailed for refusing to carry out orders."

[Cappurr]

9. There are many servicemen

Who have a conscience and who abhor killing. Fewer have the guts to stand up to the peer pressure and the military establishment and say so. These guys deserve a commendation.

[rman]

23. fewer still get ever heard about in the news

which is of course entirely coincidental

same wrt left/right devide in israel

[barbaraann]

10. Can I be anti-Likud without being branded anti-Semitic now?

n/t

[Capt_Nemo]

11. These pilots know that defending their country is also

protecting it from politicians with colonial projects and
expansionist delusions that will drive their country to ruin.

They are putting their carrers on the line to fight for the
survival of Israel as a democratic law abiding nation.

[Gimel]

28. Would you be upset

to hear that of the 27 signing the petition, only 9 are actually on active duty, and only two or three actually have flown on the controversial missions?

It is claimed to be a political act, and inappropriate way of making their opinions heard.

[MariMayans]

38. One of them is Brigadier General Yiftach Spector

He's reserve but that's someone who commands attention.

[mmm]

12. Honest to goodness good news!

It has been so long since there has been good news I thought
it might be a mirage.

Patriots and heroes all.

[xchrom]

13. bravo! more, bravo!

what wonderful news -- some people just make you feel good all over. and i didn't even fool around with them -- how unusual.

[Jacobin]

14. They are the brave ones.

It's easy to follow orders. But to find the courage to risk jail and derision by your countrymen by refusing to follow illegal and immoral orders takes a special kind of courage.

Maybe this will help get Arafat voted out.

[absolutezero]

15. kick

maybe this will wake people up in Israel and the US


:kick:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. So Israel has a right/left divide like us

and Sharon is on the "other side" :scared:

[TahitiNut]

17. More appropriate for I/P ... moving.

[vierundzwanzig]

18. But - But - But

if Dershowitz says it's OK, it must be ok to do this targeted killing stuff, is it not?

[tinnypriv]

20. http://www.refusersolidarity.net

http://www.refusersolidarity.net

Plugging, again. :)

[Darranar]

21. Good Job, pilots!

:toast:

[0007]

22. Hey you guy!

your flying with top drawer men. Jolly good show.

[kamtsa]

24. Just another proof ...

That Isreal is an open and democratic state.

[Jackie97]

25. This is fantastic.

Let's hope this starts rubbing off more and more on others.

[dArKeR]

26. Israeli pilots condemn 'illegal and immoral' missions

http://theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030925.wpilo0925/BNStory/International/

These are the kinds of Jewish people I was raised with and are my friends.

[Herschel]

27. This is mutiny

It is not the pilots' place to pick missions. They will be dealt with. I will leave it at that.

[peterh]

29. It appears that you got your wish…to some extent..

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3191537,00.html>


JERUSALEM (AP) - Israel's air force on Thursday temporarily grounded reserve pilots who - in an unprecedented protest - condemned air strikes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as ``immoral'' and announced that they will no longer fly such sorties.


:-(

[Herschel]

31. Certainly correct

The air force must make corrective measures.

[Darranar]

30. Whatever happened to individual morality?

I applaud these pilots for standing up for their princibles.

[Herschel]

32. In the armed services

those serving are not to choose the missions they find acceptable.

[Darranar]

33. Since they're drafted...

that's essentially slavery.

[Herschel]

35. Please!

America has commited many of her own to slavery over the years. Oh, my.

[Darranar]

36. Yah, they have...

and I rarely defend American actions. The only cases where the drafts were neccesary were during the Civil War and World War II. If you speak of the slavery of Africans, that was unjustified, so it doesn't prove anything.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

42. That's not true...

Our pilots are allowed to refuse to carry out missions if they feel that doing so would cause civilian casualties. One pilot aborted a mission in Iraq for those very reasons, and of course there was the usual whining from conservatives here, but the fact was that the pilot did the right thing. All the talk-show twits and folk who label the Israeli pilots traitors, political opportunists etc, should stop and think that it's ever so easy to sit in the comfort of yr own home and bitch about someone refusing to carry out a mission based on morality, but those ones doing the bitching aren't the people who are dropping bombs and harming and killing civilians. It's the pilots who are going to end up with the emotional trauma involved in doing that, and if their rules of engagement say it's okay to knowingly kill civilians, then their rules of engagement need to be changed and are the problem, not the pilots themselves...

Violet...

[bpilgrim]

34. refusing to obey an unlawful order is honored in our UCMJ

though i know nothing of the IDF regs i would say that it could be argued that this would merit a distinction from munity which would only be a much worse problem anyway for sharon's designs for the future.

peace

[MariMayans]

37. theoretically..

Members of the IDF can be tried in Israeli courts for following illegal orders. This happened after the Kfar Kassem massacre. Of course no one did jail time exceeding three years and some people left with fines amounting to one-tenth of an American cent but the legal machinery is there.

[sushi]

40. That's good news

I also heard on the news that several of them have been fired.

[LeftistGorilla]

41. Israel: "our pilots sleep well at night"

not all of them....