Plans for prosperity die amid fighting in Mideast

[Herschel]

cut

The economy of the West Bank and Gaza has suffered during the years of conflict. Only foreign aid is preventing economic collapse, according to a report by the World Bank. Half the Palestinian population is unemployed, and 60% live on less than $2 a day.

Palestinian exports fell 35% in 2002 after a 13% drop in 2001, and the area's gross domestic product dropped 25% from 2001 to 2002.

Israel has not gone unscathed. Its GDP contracted 1.1% in 2002 after shrinking 0.5% in 2001, the first negative years since 1953, according to the CIA World Factbook.

cut

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2003-09-23-mideast_x.htm

The noose is tightening. Hopefully the Palestinians will turn on the terrorists. Thankfully, America aids little Israel in this time of trouble.

[Darranar]

1. The Palestinians...

blame the Israeli occupation for their horrible economy - and that has quite a lot to do with it. This will help the terrorists - on both sides - and will hurt innocent people on both sides.

Something must be done to help the Palestinians - and one of those things is getting Sharon to tear down the wall.

[Herschel]

3. The wall stays

It protects Israel. The Palestinians will spiral downward until the terrorists surrender and lay down their arms.

[MariMayans]

4. Kneel before Zod!

[Darranar]

6. "It protects Israel..."

actually, it worsens the hatred of the Israeli occupation among the Palestinians. That helps the terrorists.

It has devestating humanitarian and economic effects on the Palestinians. WHY CAN'T IT BE BUILT ON THE GREEN LINE?

[mike_c]

2. OMFG give us a break....

"little Israel"?

I've never used one of these before: :puke: . You have the dubious distinction of being the VERY FIRST poster to drive me to the puke emoticon!

[Herschel]

5. Please!

See a map of Israel and the Arab countries. Who is little? I think you know the answer.

[Darranar]

7. SO?

If you compared the power of the respective militaries, who is little?

[Herschel]

8. Little Israel is a tiny nation

of several million in a sea of enemies. She is armed with America's aid to avoid another Holocaust. Be glad.

[Darranar]

9. The size of Israel doesn't matter...

since it has nukes and one of the most powerful air forces in the world.

When its armed forces are used to build huge walls on Palestinian land, or to demolish houses, or to chop down olive trees, they aren't doing anything to prevent another Holocaust.

[Herschel]

10. Those actions

are to thwart Palestinian terror. If little Israel was not armed at all there would be another Holocaust.

[Darranar]

12. So oppressive brutality is to thwart Palestinian terror?

It seems to be more along the lines of Israeli terror to me.

Oh, well. They're only Palestinians, after all.

[MariMayans]

13. right..

There is a perfectly natural reason I imagine that the number of journalists "accidently" attacked by Palestinians is zero and the number of journalists "accidently" wounded or killed by the IDF is over one-hundred.

But it's just "terrorists" they are after though...

[tinnypriv]

14. That isn't actually true

Several journalists have been victims of Palestinian militant/terrorist groups.

[MariMayans]

16. who?

I haven't heard of any. I went looking last night. I found one Jewish American who was working in Gaza who got kidnapped and then they decided it was a mixup and shook his hand and let him go.

[tinnypriv]

17. Here you go

"Palestinian militiamen and demonstrators repeatedly attacked reporters and occasionally prevented them from covering stories. In one April incident in the West Bank town of Bethlehem, Palestinian militants threatened journalists working for international media outlets and forced them to hand over footage of the body of an alleged Palestinian collaborator who had been murdered. In October, also in Bethlehem, a group of Palestinians assaulted photographers covering the funeral of a militant kilýed by Israeli forces. A Reuters photographer was seriously injured in the incident. That same month, another group of Palestinians assaulted several journalists covering a Gaza City explosion in which three Hamas members had died, apparently while making bombs."

http://www.cpj.org/attacks02/mideast02/israel.html

[MariMayans]

18. I think you are missing my point

If journalists getting hit by gunfire was accidental there should be some sort of equivalent collateral damage by Palestininian gunmen. There isn't.

[tinnypriv]

22. No, your point was this:

"the number of journalists "accidently" attacked by Palestinians is zero"

And that is false, as I accurately stated.

[MariMayans]

23. I think you are splitting hairs..

but since I used "accidently" the number would still be zero since when they beat up journalists they aren't pretending to do anything else.

OK, I'll rephrase: Number of journalists wounded by gunshot or tank by Israeli's=over 100

Number of journalists wounded by gunshot or tank by Palestinian's=0

[Darranar]

15. There have been some journalists targeted by Palestinian terrorists...

I think so, at least. Muddleoftheroad posted an article about it a while ago, I think.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darranar]

20. That's an exxageration...

a gross one at that. I share your concern for the Palestinians, but I do not think that it equates to the Holocaust.

[Herschel]

21. How dare you

Do not compare the occupation of the territories to the Holocaust.

[bemildred]

24. I thought they were "disputed", not "occupied".

[tinnypriv]

11. Actually

If you look at that map, you'd see that the authors included the Golan, West Bank and Gaza as part of "Israel".

That makes that Israel almost an Arab country, by ethnic demographic standards.

Just an amusing little error the Eretz Yisrael fanatics who produced it probably weren't aware of.

"Little But Massively Powerful Israel": doesn't have the same ring for you does it?

But it happens to be accurate. :)

[Herschel]

25. She will be

a Jewish state as much as some object.

[mike_c]

26. get OFF if, 'bro...

...a Jewish state is a fine aspiration, and one that I support with all my heart. An oppressive state that embraces apatheid is another matter. Why can't you see beyond Israel's "Jewishness?"

[tinnypriv]

27. Do you want the West Bank and Gaza or do you want a Jewish state?

You can't have both.

Pick one.

[Darranar]

28. Yes you can...

you can have the status quo - or something even worse.

And then there's genocide and ethnic cleansing.

[MariMayans]

29. sure you can..

You just stretch "occupation" out for eternity and maintain an apartheid system

It's worked for thiry years now. Of course the second intifada will continue indefinately also but what's a busload of people compared to the tomb of the patriarchs and Temple Mount :shrug:

[The Magistrate]

31. Well Said, Mr. Priv

The land comes with people on it.

[Herschel]

34. Israel encompassing the West Bank and Gaza

in their entirety is in essence a one state soluiton and totally unacceptable. However, there are substantial settlements in the territories which will not simply vanish. Parts of the territories, not all, will eventually lie within Israel's boundaries.

[tinnypriv]

35. Oh sorry

I was assuming the following are unacceptable for progressives:

1. Banstustans
2. Apartheid
3. Ethnic cleansing
4. Genocide

So like I said, you can have either the West Bank and Gaza, or you can have a Jewish State. Pick one.

Or, pick one of the options above.

I'd prefer you to pick "Jewish State", but hey, it's your dime.

[dudeness]

30. worthy and unworthy victims

"The noose is tightening. Hopefully the Palestinians will turn on the terrorists. Thankfully, America aids little Israel in this time of trouble."

Herschel whilst I respect your opinion, the distinct lack of humanity you display in this post I find disturbing..do you believe depriving palestinians will make them less likely to turn to violent means?..or the opposite? I think you know the answer..

[vierundzwanzig]

32. You know

at times your posts are quite insightful. But I notice that your commentary immediately defeats your purpose of introducing these arguments into the debate.

Were you a little less antagonistic I would me much more willing to consider your position.

[The Magistrate]

33. That Is A Common Concern Around Here, Sir

And might be applied to many commentators: thank you for pointing it out.

People approached reasonably are likely to respond in kind. If they do not, than at least it is obvious what you are dealing with.

[sushi]

36. Yes, both sides suffer

A peace agreement is the answer.

Since you love Israel very much, I would have thought you'd be for Israel making some changes in its policies too so that a peace agreement can be reached soon.

Israel lives in a sea of Muslims, and there's is more than a billion of them in the world.
Do you want Israel to be in fighting mode for at least another few decades? If you don't care for the economic suffering of the Palestinians, how long do you want Israel to suffer economically? How many Muslims do you want to kill, and will that mean Israel can then live in peace?

I understand a lot of people in Israel also want a peace agreement, so they can't be very comfortable with their government's inflexible policies. I think you don't live in Israel, or you wouldn't be so "hardcore," and how can you fear for Israel. Being the strongest in the Middle East and with the backing of the US, nothing bad will happen.