Envoys: US, EU alarmed by corruption in Israel

[Scurrilous]

Israeli ambassadors complain to Foreign Minister Livni that corruption scandals involving Israeli politicians are focus of attention in foreign countries

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3348204,00.html

<snip>

"Israeli ambassadors and consul generals in European countries and the United States have complained that recurring corruption scandals involving Israeli politicians and senior public figures are damaging Israel 's image abroad.

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni heard complaints about the situation during a round of phone calls with envoys to European cities who said the issue of corruption scandals are being extensively covered in the local media and are being raised by journalists, diplomats and Jewish community leaders with whom they meet.

Officials told Livni that the sexual assault scandal implicating President Moshe Katsav, a number of investigations into inappropriate conduct by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert before resuming office, and the latest corruption scandal at the Tax Authority in which the prime minister's bureau chief was implicated are among the most followed topics.

Envoys demanded the Foreign Ministry issues clear guidelines as to who they should react to the scandals."

[Missy M]

1. Sounds like typical politicians and public figures in all...

countries. The US should look into its own corruption scandals.

[pelsar]

2. the palestenians..

actually have few if any corruption scandles....

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pelsar]

4. i wouldnt suggest...checking my posts....

you would probably find quite a few spelling and grammatical errors....(whether i'm writing about israelis or palestenians....)

[breakaleg]

5. considering that this has been pointed out to you more than once, and even in this

response you again spelled it incorrectly, I'd say it's done on purpose. A little lack of respect or something. Just my 2 cents.

[pelsar]

7. guess i dont respect israel as well...

since i dont capitalize it......care to comment on that as well?

i believe this is a classic case of seeing only one side: i missspell palestenian, dont captialize israel......and the comment is only about one...hmmm quite interesting (and for those who read my posts, i'm quite consistent in those mistakes, yet only the palestenian one has ever been pointed out....)

[JuniperLea]

9. That's bogus BS, IMHO

Many, many people type in all lower case ala e.e. cummings... not the same thing and you know it. I've been watching you try your best to weasel your way out of this spelling "error" for quite some time and I think it really stinks that you continue on in this manner. A simple Google search of the way you continually misspell the name of a nation is all over the Internets, not just here. If you can't show respect, you deserve none from others. If you can't self-correct after so many have pointed this out dozens of times, you are clearly doing it out of disrespect... or perhaps some code. Whichever it is, it stinks to high heaven.

[pelsar]

11. weasle out of it?

that i find rather amusing, i dont believe i have to "weasle out of anything.......and maybe your right....perhaps some code...but i'm afraid if it is, i cant really tell you.

this i find rather interesting:

searching

pelsar cant: 1,940

pelsar palestenain 352

pelsar israel 2,800

pelsar theyre 1100

______

if I was subjective i would say this pelsar person has a definite spelling problem...or best, he disrespects the english language.....or hes a mossad agent and hes passing on coded messages to the operative here on the DU..who knows?

[breakaleg]

15. Again your lack of respect comes through. Considering what this forum is about, I hardly think

it's asking to much to spell the names of the major players involved correctly. And there is a spell check function.

[pelsar]

19. if you are really interested in some facts...

you would do some research and discover that in some of my posts Palestinian is spelled correctly while israel isnt....that should bring an interesting angle to the discussion.

[JuniperLea]

28. Can you link to an unedited post?

Because I can't find one.

[pelsar]

50. most of mine...

if i spell check, the checker fixes Palestinian but leaves my un capital israel as is (i believe all countries should be capitalized-isnt that correct grammer?)

[breakaleg]

54. if word is spelled correctly but not capitalized appropriately, it won't pick it up.

If a word is spelled incorrectly and not capitalized, it will pick it up and change the capitalization. I just tested it with Israel and Palestine both spelled various ways and with and without capitalization.

[JuniperLea]

55. no one gives an airborne rodent's derriere about capitalization

it's your blatant disregard for respect that is tiring.

[JuniperLea]

56. And yet you can't answer the question

You can't point to one instance...

[pelsar]

79. just have to look

you didnt look did you?



heres one: obviously partially spell checked...with jews spelled with a small j..iran small, etc...quite a mess

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x159378#159676


countries are born via violence...at least thats the ways its been since time began....the jews and israel are no different...and to think so or to expect so is to place the jews as something other than normal humans....i doubt you want to go there.

the Palestinians made some poor choices and continue to do so....i hate to sound trite, but life isnt fair, never was, ask the american indians, jews, Tibetans, Muslim Chinese, Shiite muslims in iran, Sunnis in saudi arabia, the blacks in america, whites of zimbabwa and a zillion other peoples and social groups that dont get what they want and deserve.

the Palestenians made their choices, gambled and lost...gambled again and lost again...they can keep on trying..and keep on losing or they might, like so many other peoples, make the best of their situation, just as the jews did in 1948, they too didnt get "all they wanted", the difference was, that once they accepted their lot, they started to build a society that was as best as they could.

Its an example the palestenians might want to follow...thats the lesson of "whats good for one side is good for the other"...the philosophy of making the best of ones environment.

or here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x159836#160122

[JuniperLea]

86. I said... unedited... that one is edited n/t

[pelsar]

90. they're all "edited...."

everyone of my posts...after i type and put it up i always find something to correct....for reasons that are unclear i find mistakes or incomprehensable sentence structure once its up, and not after i typed it in the "input or edit mode"

[JuniperLea]

95. They are NOT all edited

Not at all.

[JuniperLea]

17. You're mixing apples and oranges

As I said, all lower case is common. And generally when you find someone who types in all lower case, you will also find their typing devoid of punctuation, save periods.

There's no confusion whatsoever.

[pelsar]

20. but i do have some punctuation..

sometimes....and other times not...

pelsar isn't 1,100

pelsar isnt 1200


i could go on about my inconsistencies......shall we try other words as well? I'm particularly bad with longer words.... (seems i fogot the comma in the numbers above as well- i usually go back and edit that when i find it....but for the sack of "truthfulness" i figured i would leave it)

[JuniperLea]

25. That's the point

I'm not talking about your inconsistancies... it is what you are doing consistently that is the issue. Again, apples and oranges.

[pelsar]

49. i consistently...

spell some words wrong....this is true and its not just palestenains, i'm also consistent with my grammer mistakes.....i'm an equal opportunity wrong speller and poor grammer person (maybe i have the dreaded: duiadficganiesdfaf disease-the one that mixes up i and e's? and doesnt know where to put the apostrophe and screws up capitals?

[JuniperLea]

51. ignorance is no excuse, nor is garden variety stupidity

you've been corrected. any refusal to spell a nation's name correctly, at this point, is blatant disrespect.

if you are so mentally handicapped, we should all take your posts with the kindest of grains of salt. thanks for the heads up on that.

[The Magistrate]

57. As A Matter Of Curiousity, Ma'am

Could you please explain what connection Mr. Pelsar's spelling has to the question of governmental corruption in Israel, and possibly elsewhere, and the effects of this on governmental views in Europe?

That might be an interesting topic...this, not so much....

[JuniperLea]

62. It's called the inability to learn in some circles

And willful ignorance in others. When done as we see here, it appears to be nothing less than purposeful disrespect.

If one cannot process simple ideas such as a correction in spelling, even with that word right in front of one, then one cannot be expected to understand the complex dealings of any government, corrupt or otherwise.

[The Magistrate]

66. This Sort Of Behavior, Ma'am, Can Be Called Other Things As Well

Like pointless distraction to no good purpose....

[JuniperLea]

68. Demanding respect of a nation is always a good purpose

There is very much a point to the discussion.

[The Magistrate]

72. It Has No Relevance At All, Ma'am

To the effect of corruption in the government of Israel on its relations with European Union governments. That is the topic Mr. Scurrillous attempted to start a discussion on, and it is one that deserves some notice.

This is not a spelling bee, after all....

[pelsar]

74. the real anwer......i shall come clean...

but first.....not having the ability to process spelling must mean that i cannot possibly understand greater complex thoughts.....gotta wonder how i actually finished college

and i shall be serious for a post even though i dont think this whole series of posts deserve it:

grad degree Univ of Michigan 1985......and writing my thesis on a word processor (for those who might know what that is) probably saved me, since it actually had a spell checker. So yes i can process complex ideas.

long ago i learned to accept that when i type, i type fast with mistakes, my fingers have "learned" to type certain words in certain ways and that means palestenians and israelis.....both wrong. if spell check i get Palestinian correct and israel wrong.

its not of any disrespect.....its typing fast and getting lazy or preoccupied with something else and not spell checking. (and when i look it over the palestinenian doesnt "look' wrong)..and with that i shall no longer take the rest of these posts seriously

tolerence.....it seems to be lacking here.

[JuniperLea]

94. no edits here

[pelsar]

102. keep looking....

i'm sure you'll find what your looking for...though i really dont know what you are looking for......

[JuniperLea]

104. You said all were edited. I'm saying NOT all were edited.

Simple. Please try to understand.

[JuniperLea]

93. this one isn't edited

[pelsar]

99. they're short....

check in to the long ones where i actually write something serious.....not this joke of a thread.

[Tom Joad]

6. Edward Said wrote at length about the corruption of Arafat and the PA.

He was not the only Palestinian american to do so, by any means.

I wonder if any Israel supporters in the US would be so open to criticize the Israeli regime (that is, after all, not a "authority" under pressure from a military occupation, but a real government that has full authority and sovereignty over land, and has been around much longer) is going to have the same kind of criticism from its supporters here. Maybe aipac should run a workshop on the issue.

[pelsar]

8. Edward Said was not a palestenian...

he was infact an egyptian....any palestenains in gaza or in the westbank writing about the corruption?....i cant recall reading about any corruption or sex scandles within the palestenian society....guess there arent any.

incase you dont quite get it....in a real democracy its members are the ones responsable for its leaders and social values...not people in some other country (but i do get it, it would mean holding the palestenians responsable for their actions......assuming that some are corrupt of course)

[JuniperLea]

10. Palestinian... for the googolth time...

Strange how your shift button works fine for a person's name...

I'm sure your spell check button works just fine too.

[pelsar]

12. its a secret code..

only zionists know about it....sorry i cant say any more.....

[UndertheOcean]

14. No , that is just a show of disrespect and childish stubborness...

....

[JuniperLea]

18. Which only points to the fact that...

The childish and stubborn combo points to someone who cannot debate any issue with clarity... they have a closed mind and can only "stay the course".

[pelsar]

22. tolerance anyone?

interesting argument: " I dont accept the way you do things, therefore you must be childish and have a closed mind".....

i'm sure in logic 101, they would have a great time with that "argument"

[UndertheOcean]

24. In other words , I will never correct my mistake despite being told about it a million times.

anyway , thats not the issue .... The issue is that the IDF is murdering the Palestinians on a daily basis .

[pelsar]

27. no its more like....

i type in a certain way and i make lots of mistakes because:

i'm a louse speller
i'm doing a couple things at once and dont concentrate on certain aspects.
dont always use the spell checker for various reasons, none of which are very complimentary

and i find the intolerance here rather interesting....

and the overall subject is the conflict with the intolerance of those involved and those not involved for seeing other viewpoints being the reason it keeps on going....my poor spelling and the intolerant reactions being very symbolic of that

[JuniperLea]

29. The only intolerance I see here

Is the intolerance for disrespect. Intolerance isn't always a bad thing.

[pelsar]

31. so wheres your tolerence?

i'm a poor speller, type fast and dont always concentrate......i dont get any "slack" for it?.......or am i to be "disrespected" for it?

[JuniperLea]

47. If you were inconsistent as you claim, it might be a consideration

From all I can gather from this conversation, you would rather use your misspelling as a knife blade to twist and your stubborn refusal to even attempt to correctly spell the name of a nation is the salt you pour into the wound you create.

Have fun. Seems you enjoy bankrupting your Karma account.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pelsar]

34. i respect those who show tolerence for the other..

and i respect those who have liberal values (i.e. tolerence for the other, until it is a threat to a liberal lifestyle)...other than that, as far as im concerned most anything goes.

and that includes poor spellers, poor writers.....

[JuniperLea]

43. And the willfully ignorant it appears

And the childishly stubborn who refuse to show respect... nice.

[pelsar]

63. self expression.....

thats what tolerance is all about.....you may not understand why someone does something, but being tolerent of the other and patience with them is essential for getting along....without calling them names......that is a good example of intolerence

[JuniperLea]

67. Some show their self expression by destroying the property of another through graffiti

And it is argued all the time that graffiti is self expression. I am not tolerant of graffiti. Not all self expression is a good thing and not all self expression should be allowed in a civilized society.

Sorry, I have no patience for someone who claims to understand the complex workings of any government yet cannot spell a word that is sitting in front of them. And I have no patience with anyone who is told they are disrespecting a nation, yet they continue to do so.

[Behind the Aegis]

58. So is this disrespect?

"You do not represent Isreal very well at all."

For someone with such a contention about spelling, the fact that you are attacking an Israeli poster, then turn around and misspell his native country...is that your way of being disrespectful? Or was it simply a typo?

[JuniperLea]

64. Read the thread and comprehend

Many of us were discussing this very thing. Sorry you missed it.

I spell very well, thank you. I was waiting to see if the person I was speaking with would see the error. If you find it disrespectful of the country, you are flat wrong. Wrong, that is, if you are in agreement with the person to whom I was speaking.

You can't support one instance and not the other.

[Behind the Aegis]

65. I have read and comprehended.

It is bad to misspell "Palestinian," but OK to misspell "Israel." You and the others insisting this is some type of "code" is just absurd and bizarre. There are plenty of posters who do not use spell check, many posters misspell Israel all the time, as well as use words spelled correctly, but are swapped. (there=their=they're; your=you're; recently, gaul=gall). No, the real question is why three posters have taken such an exception and attacked another poster repeatedly.

[JuniperLea]

70. This has been going on for months

It's not good to misspell the proper name of any nation, corrupt or otherwise. THAT is the point. Thank you for making my point. Even if it meant you took the bait...

[Behind the Aegis]

73. You and the others have no point....that's the issue.

You, and two other posters have gone on and on about something meaningless and tried to make it into something sinister. There are a few posts in this thread where you, and the other two make spelling AND grammatical errors...no one is harping on them because the point is understood. You are being divisive and hateful for no good reason.

This ENTIRE thread has been ripped apart because a poster misspelled a word. PATHETIC!

[JuniperLea]

85. Ripped apart?

Oh my!


:rofl:

You don't get it, so please, try to get over it.

[Behind the Aegis]

88. Actually, you are the one that needs to "get over it."

Pathetic display!

[JuniperLea]

92. You seem far more worked up about it than I am

n/t

[Lurking Dem]

96. That's why you have over 20 posts

on this thread lambasting pelsar for his spelling? Because you're not worked up?

[JuniperLea]

100. I'm tired of his disrespect when he is so demanding of the same

He claims to be college educated, yet he cannot spell a word that has its root word on the very page on which he types. Sad.

[Lurking Dem]

103. Then follow my suggestion

offered here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=162079&mesg_id=162213

[JuniperLea]

105. I make it a point to never follow the advice of someone

Who refuses to take their own advice. Wouldn't be prudent.

[JuniperLea]

71. I don't know that this poster is Israeli

And you have no idea what my background is either. Interesting, isn't it?

[Behind the Aegis]

76. If you don't know that...

...then this post was idiotic; "You do not represent Isreal very well at all. They don't need your help. You are giving them a bad name."

The only thing remotely interesting is this supposed "code" you think is being used.

[JuniperLea]

87. You don't have to be Israeli to post in favor of Israeli deeds

Come on. Get a grip. You have nothing... your straw grasping has you coming up empty handed.

[Behind the Aegis]

91. It is you that is sadly grasping at nothing...

And if you truly have been following his "misdeeds" then you should know by now he is Israeli. Or is that just a plot too? :eyes:

[JuniperLea]

98. I don't judge people by their national heritage

It makes no difference to me. So I pay no attention. And like I said, you don't have to be of a certain persuasion, race, creed, religion, to support the same.

[pelsar]

81. actually i'm a

balestinian.....at least thats how Palestinians would pronounce it seeing as they cant say "p"....livining in Jebalya in fear because i'm a homosexual cross dresser Buddhist..... (is that how you spell cross dresser?)

[Tom Joad]

48. To be fair, Mr. Pelsar also has his own definitions for words,

so it should be no surprise that his dictionary also has a different spellings as well.

In a recent post, Pelsar called it "racism" to object to an unreliable source on the web. Despite the fact that the website's creators ethnicity was not even known, and we only knew of his rightist support for the Iraq war and Israel policy. And low-quality of the website overall. But our criticism of that website, Mr. Pelsar insisted, was an example of "racism".

This from a person who has stated his first language is English.

[pelsar]

53. that i stand by...most definitely...

objecting to an article not because of its content but because of its source, i find to be the same nature as "racism"...I call it 'cyber racism" (ok i made it up, but i think the definition stands-claiming the content is bad because you dont like the "skin")

just like real racism.....

btw were informal here...you really dont have to have the Mr.

[JuniperLea]

61. I don't understand how anyone can take him seriously

If he can't even get the simple definition of a very common and widely used word correct.

My Jewish God-Mother, who taught the Torah and English, btw, would have a field day with this one.

:eyes:

[Lurking Dem]

75. Oh, WOW! You had a Jewish G-d Mother??

ARE U SERIES?!?!?!11!

Thanks for throwing that in.

There is a very fine remedy, provided by the fine folks at DU, that enable you to never have to read another irritating post of pelsar's again.

I suggest you either make use of it or get back to discussing the actual topic of this thread instead of the ceaseless harping you are now engaged in.

[Behind the Aegis]

77. some of my best friends are....

:eyes:

[Lurking Dem]

83. "I play with his pet pig!"

That one will crack me up 'til the day I die.

[pelsar]

84. guess i'm ignorent as well...

whats a jewish god mother?.....and who would she teach torah to?

[UndertheOcean]

13. Edward Said is Palestinian , and from a palestinian family ...

How about we start calling Israelis born in poland polish instead of Israeli , or iranian born ones iranian instead of israeli ...


And how would you like it if someone consistently types israel as "isreal"

[Mudoria]

16. perhaps he doesn't look for

things to be offended about as much as other folks?

[pelsar]

21. israel...isreal....

i've read posts with it spelled wrong...so?.....it doesnt bother me. I simply have a greater tolerance for people who type fast, cant spell, english not being their first language, or simply dont pay attention to what they type

and Edward Said?...and was in fact a member of the egyptian privilaged class.....not the "poor palestinean" he originally tried to present himself (i wrote from memory of him not being a palestenian...my mistake)

[UndertheOcean]

23. sources ?

n/t

[Lurking Dem]

33. How's your fucking Hebrew?

Good Lord this is a disgusting thread hijack.

[UndertheOcean]

35. So we must trust without sources? send me the links , I have an Israeli friend who can translate.

and why is this a Hijack? he is the one who attacked Edward Said

[Lurking Dem]

37. That wasn't what I was talking about.

[UndertheOcean]

39. Oh I get it now , but still , If someone informs you about a mistake in your second language ...

you should try to learn from it instead of repeating the mistake.

[pelsar]

36. really bad...n/t

i actually find it to be interesting...to be "attacked" for poor spelling...and having it construed to mean something else.

[Lurking Dem]

40. LOL

I lost my codebook. Could you send me another copy?



Fot the reccord thids os ehat my typimg usually looks like befroe I correct.


***********************

I go back, slowly and painfully and fix what I messed up or transposed but sometimes I miss something. It takes me a lot longer.

I have a disease which effects the use of my hands but really it is just disrespect, or coded messages to Mossad.

[UndertheOcean]

38. And Sir/Mame please refrain from using profanities ,

Where did I talk profanity to you or to Pelsar?

[Tom Joad]

60. Such a disrespectful description of a people's language.

[Howardx]

78. i agree completely

lets get back to discussing corrupt isreali politicians

[Lurking Dem]

80. So-

how do you think it could best be cleaned up? This could go for US pols too as one could assume the basic framework which leads to corruption could have similar remedies.

Sex scandals I consider ridiculous if they're of the consenting adult type. The Katsav thing I view more as an assault scandal - truly hideous.

Problems of influence peddling is almost a Middle Eastern superfluity so I'm not sure how they would go about reining that in.

Thoughts?

[pelsar]

82. change in the govt system...

israel lacks direct representation...meaning the politicians are loyal first to their own and not to the voters.....there in lies the real problem.

[Lurking Dem]

89. How would one go about that?

The Israeli system is much more like England's than America's yet I don't think the British system is more corrupt than the U.S. one.

[pelsar]

97. i'm actually learning about it....

a friend of mine is attempting change:

http://www.directrepisrael.org/EN/About.html

it seems i'm about to be put on the "board of directors". It seems the israeli system is more eastern europe than anything else......the idea of direct representation and responsability to the voters is not what its all about.

[Lurking Dem]

101. That is very cool.

And kudos for getting involved!

What do you think should be done about those caught now in the corruption net?

[pelsar]

44. Said

I was writing from memory.....it was big news a while back and i believe at one point he modified one of his writings to confirm it.

http://www.brucebawer.com/said.htm

pretty much explains it as i remember it

found this:

Said’s image as a truth-seeking, truth-speaking intellectual came under serious attack in September 1999. An article by Justus Reid Weiner in that month’s Commentary argued persuasively that Said had on occasion misrepresented his early life, describing himself as having grown up in Jerusalem and fled to Cairo as an exile in 1947 or ’48, around the time of the founding of Israel, when in fact (as Weiner’s research showed, and as Said’s memoir, also published in 1999, belatedly acknowledged) he was raised in Cairo and only spent relatively brief periods in Jerusalem.11 Weiner cites a 1992 Harper’s article by Said: "I was born, in November 1935 in Talbiya, then a mostly new and prosperous Arab quarter of Jerusalem. By the end of 1947, just months before Talbiya fell to Jewish forces, I’d left with my family for Cairo." Similarly, in London Review of Books (1998): "I was born in Jerusalem and spent most of my formative years there and, after 1948, when my entire family became refugees, in Egypt." And a 1998 New York Times profile reads: "Mr. Said was born in Jerusalem and spent the first twelve years of his life there." Weiner’s comment: "A great deal of the moral authority accruing to Edward Said derives as much from his personal as from his intellectual credentials"; yet "although Said has defined his own intellectual vocation as one of ‘tell the truth against extremely difficult odds’... it turns out that, in retailing the facts of his own personal biography over the years, he has spoken anything but the plain, direct, or honest truth." Said’s aim, according to Weiner? "To strengthen his wider ideological agenda – and in particular to promote the claims of Palestinian refugees against Israel."

Said replied to Weiner’s article with a short piece in the weekly English-language edition of the Cairo newspaper Al-Ahram.12 In a subsequent letter to Commentary, a group of people identifying themselves as founders of the "Arab-Jewish Peace Group" claimed that "each one of Mr. Weiner’s allegations is addressed and refuted" in Said’s Al-Ahram article; another Said supporter wrote, "Now that Justus Reid Weiner’s assertions about Edward Said’s life and origins have been found inaccurate, does Commentary have any plans to issue a formal apology or clarification?" Yet Said’s article in Al-Ahram, entitled "Defamation, Zionist-style," provided no such refutation. Instead Said added to his autobiographical duplicities an audacious misrepresentation of Weiner’s charges. Weiner, he claimed, "attacks my life and story as a Palestinian by pretending to show that I am neither Palestinian, nor ever lived in Palestine, nor that my family was evicted from Palestine in 1948....It is part of the Palestinian fate always to be required to prove one’s existence and history!" But at no point did Weiner deny that Said was a Palestinian, or that he may at some point have resided briefly in Palestine, or that members of his extended family were forced to leave Palestine in the late 1940s. On the contrary, Weiner specifically charged Said with maintaining that he had grown up in Jerusalem and been driven from it by the Israelis – and this was an accusation to which Said obviously had no answer. In Al-Ahram Said wrote that "what Commentary wants is not the truth but the Big Zionist Lie." Yet truth was something that Said had plainly bent in the past, and was bending again in Al-Ahram.

The Arab-Jewish Peace Group’s letter insisted that "claims like Mr. Weiner’s hurt the Palestinians in the same way that revisionist historians who try to deny the Holocaust hurt the Jewish people." But if any harm was done to the Palestinians, it was not by Weiner’s article but by Said. Why, one wonders, did he fib about his past? My own sense of Said from his writings leads me to suspect that he simply couldn’t help himself – that for him it was not enough that there is some justice in Palestinian claims; his overweening amour-propre compelled him to place himself at the center of it all. He needed to be not just a spokesman, but a symbol. And why, it may be asked, do Said’s untruths matter? They matter because the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a nearly hopeless moral quagmire in which each camp has racked up a litany of legitimate world-class grievances and a history of unspeakable deeds. To take a leadership role on either side is to enter an atmosphere rife with double-dealing, propaganda, and spin. In such circumstances, truth becomes the dearest commodity of all. Those who participate in such a conflict in sincere hopes of achieving a fair and peaceful resolution must strive to honor the truth. Thus Said’s are no ordinary deceptions, but instead resonate in a way that, say, the recently revealed prevarications by the historian Joseph Ellis (who for years told his classes at Mount Holyoke that he had served in Vietnam) do not.

[UndertheOcean]

52. From your source :

"But at no point did Weiner deny that Said was a Palestinian, or that he may at some point have resided briefly in Palestine, or that members of his extended family were forced to leave Palestine in the late 1940s."

So even the hired American lawyer who made the original claim didn't deny that Said was a Palestinian. whether Said lied about some things or not is another debate altogether ..

Still no proof to your claim that Said was Egyptian.

//P.S. the author of the lines you posted has this latest book : " While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam Is Destroying the West from Within " , smells like neocon thinking to me , like the eveel muslims are out to get us.//

[pelsar]

59. again....i corrected my mistake

in one of the posts here, i confused his origin with his lifestyle

[JuniperLea]

30. Got link? n/t

[UndertheOcean]

32. From wikipedia about the Justus Reid Weiner case (suspect he's your source)

Controversy over Said's early life

In 1999, Justus Reid Weiner, a researcher at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, published an article in Commentary alleging that Said's family did not permanently reside in Talbiya or live there during the final months of the British mandate, and thus that they could not be considered refugees. According to Weiner, it was only Said's aunt who owned a house in Talbiya, while Said's family visited Jerusalem only occasionally. "On birth certificate, prepared by the ministry of health of the British Mandate," Weiner states, "his parents specified their permanent address as Cairo," leaving blank the space for a local address. Weiner suggests Said grew up in Cairo, and probably never attended St. George's Academy in Jerusalem except during brief stays in that city. Weiner argues that Said's name is not on the school registry and that David Eben-Ezra, whom Said mentioned as a classmate, has no recollections of him.<8>

Following Weiner's widely-publicized article, several respondents came to Said's defense. In The Nation, Christopher Hitchens writes that schoolmates and teachers confirmed Said's stay at St. George's, and quotes Said stating as early as 1992 that he had spent much of his youth in Cairo.<9> In another commentary by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair in Counterpunch, Haig Boyadjian is quoted as confirming that he had been Said's classmate at St. George's in 1947, and chastizing Weiner.<10>In an article entitled "Defamation, Zionist-style," Said explained himself, responding that "the family house was in fact a family house in the Arab sense, which meant that our families were one in ownership," and that his name could not be on the school's registry, which was terminated a year before his attendance.<11> Said charged that the "Zionist movement has resorted to shabbier and shabbier techniques," criticizing the Jerusalem Center for having "hired an obscure Israeli-American lawyer to 'research' the first ten years of my life and 'prove' that even though I was born in Jerusalem I was never really there".<12> Said later stated: "I was born in Jerusalem, my family is a Jerusalem family. We left Palestine in 1947. We left before most others. It was a fortuitous thing. . . . I never said I was a refugee, but the rest of my family was. My entire extended family was driven out. .


=============================

I guess you decide what people should call themselves rather than what they actually call themselves...

Using this logic I can go to Israel and start stating to everyone : you are Polish , Russian , morrocan , Yemenite , Iranian , German ...etc... that would be wrong since they identify themselves as Israeli , and thats all that matters.

[breakaleg]

41. Also from Wikipedia, Said says he went to schools for the wealthy

along with other Arabs that were expected to go on to positions of influence, like King Hussein of Jordan. He doesn't seem to be claiming to be poor.

[Tom Joad]

42. No, Edward Said was not a "palestenian". No one ever said he was.

He was a Palestinian.

[pelsar]

46. i corrected my mistake...in one of the posts n/t

[Tom Joad]

45. Part of the mythology of the Israeli state that "there are no Palestinian people"

Tehran revels in its own historical revisionism, Israel continues in its own.

[The Magistrate]

69. Are You Seriously, Mr. Joad

Comparing a statement concerning someone's birth-place to the claim there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz?

[undergroundrailroad]

106. Locking per I/P Guidelines

We've gotten seriously off-topic.



Undergroundrailroad
DU Lead Moderator
Israel/Palestine Forum