Words of Wisdom on Lebanon - where we need to avoid the next crisis

[karynnj]

In a Boston Globe op-ed, Senator Kerry explains the critical need to support the moderates in Lebanon to help their fragile democracy. This is worth reading completely.

"EVERYWHERE I traveled throughout the Middle East this winter, the feeling was inescapable that the region could explode at any time. The threat of three simultaneous civil wars that King Abdullah of Jordan spoke of is real, and perhaps the most imminent danger -- in Lebanon -- is the least understood.

Lost in the shadows of Iraq, the struggle to save the fragile democracy born of the Cedar Revolution has reached a moment of truth. If America does not act now, this key front in the broader struggle between moderates and extremists for the future of the Arab world will be lost -- and the consequences will long be felt throughout the region. The radicals' ambitions for overthrow move from Prime Minister Fouad Siniora in Lebanon to President Mahmound Abbas in Ramallah to Prime Minister Nouri al- Maliki in Iraq. They are determined to achieve a clean sweep.

Anyone who has longed for a George Washington or Thomas Jefferson to emerge and lead the fight for democracy in the Middle East should come to Beirut and meet the patriots who have made incredible sacrifices for a free and independent Lebanon."

<snip>

"Yet today, the forces of radicalism are doing a far better job than the moderates in making the most basic connections with restive populations. In Lebanon, Iran has seized the opportunity to win over the population by channeling some $500 million in reconstruction funds through Hezbollah -- over twice as much as we have. In fact, Iran is doing more in rebuilding Lebanon than Washington is doing in rebuilding New Orleans"



"



http://blog.johnkerry.com/

[IndianaGreen]

1. We can thank Israel for undermining Lebanon's fragile sectarian coalition

Bush and Congress were falling all over themselves supporting Israel's despicable and criminal bombing of Lebanon, and her use of cluster, incendiary, and radiological bombs on civilian population.

The entire world saw that the United States and Israel were joined at the hip in the genocide against the people of the Middle East, regardless of their being Muslim, Christian, Druze, etc. Two imperialist powers!

[karynnj]

2. Even before that war,

the United States blew it by not taking advantage of the Cedar Revolution, which was a lucky break. With enough support from the US and the world, the Lebanese government could have pushed to control the factions in Hezbollah that support violence.

The war aggrevated the situation immensely - I am actually surprised that the government is still standing.

In spite of the past, don't you agree that the US and world should stand behind the Lebanese government now? What do you recommend doing?

[dwahzon]

4. The US

missed a real opportunity to work with a Middle Eastern country that's already integrated the basics of democracy into their government when they chose not to engage after the Cedar Revolution. That democracy is now at risk when it didn't need to be.

There's some additional reading recommended in the first comment on the post if anyone's interested.

One of the Lebanese bloggers pointed out that Hisballah is much like the IRA was in Ireland. In his view, there's the social support component and the military component and they should be viewed as separate though related entities. Supporting engagement with the social support arm of Hezbollah does not represent support for the military arm.

[IndianaGreen]

7. The United States should cut its umbilical chord to Israel and get out of Middle East

Once Israel and the US stop using each other for their own purposes, and with the US out of the picture, the nations in that region will have to make peace with each other because it is the only rational alternative to the status quo.

Once America is gone from the Middle East, perhaps an international conference on settling the border disputes will become a reality, if Israel and her neighbors fail to make peace with each other.

Iraq has shown that our meddling in the Middle East only succeeds in making matters worse.

[karynnj]

9. The middle east problem is not all Israel's fault

anymore than it is all the fault of Israel's opponents. Here, Kerry is not recommending committing troops, destabalizing a government or any of a number of things that the US has done. He is recommending that we lead an effort to get support for an elected government that has many people who seem to have goals that most people would agree with.

This editorial does not deal with the West bank or Israel. In an op-ed of this size, no one could speak of the entire middle east. Senator Kerry did meet with both the Palestinians and the Israelis as well. At some point he may speak on that mess as well - but that is not what he is doing here.

[IndianaGreen]

11. Kerry knows as much about Lebanon as he does about Venezuela

The mere fact that Hizbollah is considered a terrorist organization, thanks to lobbying by the Israelbots in America, shows how little Americans know about Lebanon. If Hizbollah is a terrorist group, so is the Lebanese government of which Hizbollah is part of.

[karynnj]

12. In that case he knows a huge amount

Kerry unlike many others doesn't see everything in black and whte. Here is what he actually said about Venezuela:

"The fact is that far too often, we have sent mixed messages when it comes to supporting democracy in Latin America. This Administration sat by and watched as mob violence drove presidents from office in Bolivia and in Argentina. They even encouraged a president to flee in Haiti, and immediately recognized a government named by a military junta in Venezuela. There is no question that Hugo Chavez has undermined the democratic process in his country, supported narco-terrorists in Colombia, and provided massive assistance to Castro’s repressive regime in Cuba. But when we countenance mob rule or military force to oust an elected president -- even objectionable leaders like Chávez -- we lose the credibility necessary to become a true force for democracy. In fact, our policies have been so unpopular that opposition to the United States has become a rallying point for some of the very politicians we would most like to see defeated. "


http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=254305

Whether the left likes it or not, Chavez is no more an angel than he is a devil. Just because he hates Bush doesn't make him a saint. I take Kerry's comments on who is involved in Latin American drug production seriously - because he is an expert on this.

Hezbollah has backed violence against Israel. Wouldn't it be good if some of the people attacked to Hezbollah because of the good they do within the community were driven instead to organizations that don't support terror.

[IndianaGreen]

13. Only a dumbass would have sided with the Venezuelan elites

That's what makes Chavez "objectionable," to use Kerry's term, the fact that he is of mixed race and that his policies are geared to help the poor and the workers, while eliminating the privileges of the elites.

Perhaps a rich Boston Brahman, or a Texas oilman, would feel more comfortable with the very white and very rich Venezuelan elites.

[karynnj]

17. Kerry did NOT side with opposition

There is nothing in his statement that puts him on that side. His point is NOT that the opposition was better. His point was that we shouldn't be covertly destabalizing the elected officials - even if we don't like them. Supporting drug running in Columbia is a reason Kerry listed. He's against that. To imply it's because he is "mixed race" is despicable. Kerry has an excellent record on civil rights.

[IndianaGreen]

21. Like hell he didn't!

This was certainly not Kerry's finest hour of the 2004 campaign:

Published on Friday, March 26, 2004 by CommonDreams.org

Why John Kerry Must Retract his Position on Venezuela
by VenezuelAnalysis.com

The Democratic candidate for President of the United States, John Kerry, published a statement on his web site this past March 19, setting forth his position on the political situation in Venezuela. In this declaration, Kerry relies on inaccurate information and repeats views identical to those of the Venezuelan opposition to democratically-elected President Hugo Chavez.

<snip>

Fight against the illegal trafficking of drugs

In terms of the issue of the fight against illegal drug trafficking, Kerry is completely misinformed and again is repeating the Venezuelan opposition's line of reasoning without even reviewing facts and statistics. The Bush Administration has continuously praised the Chávez government in this fight. "Venezuela has achieved notable advances in the interdiction of drug trafficking...The confiscation of illegal drugs has increased drastically", Robert B. Charles, Sub-Secretary of State for International Narcotrafficking Affairs stated at the beginning of March. Additionally, a U.S. report evaluating 195 countries in the fight against narcotrafficking in 2003 states that "the levels of heroin confiscation have remained the same as those in 2002, in half a ton, the highest level in South America for the fourth consecutive year."

Kerry accuses Chávez of helping insurgency groups in Colombia. Nevertheless, General James Hill of the Southern Command of the US Army has stated publicly that there is no evidence that the Venezuelan government has aided insurgency groups in Colombia.

<snip>

Seeking for the Right's Vote

It is almost unexplainable that Kerry, as a Democrat, maintains almost the same positions as Bush and his ultra-conservative cabinet. Many in the progressive community had hoped that Kerry could bring a fundamental change to the foreign policies implemented by Bush towards Latin America. Statements such as this lead us to believe that there may be little change in the arrogant US government foreign policy, and unfortunately, mistrust and resentment towards the United States in Latin America would probably continue to grow as a result.

Without offering any evidence, Kerry, follows the line of the Venezuelan opposition, accusing Chavez of aiding the Colombian guerrilla forces, permitting narcotrafficking, undermining democratic institutions, attempting to impede a possible recall referendum on his mandate, and of implementing policies that are detrimental to US interests.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0326-01.htm

[ProSense]

26. What a load of crap!

Statement on Venezuela
Author: John F. Kerry

March 19, 2004

Senator John Kerry, D-Mass.
March 19, 2004

With the future of the democratic process at a critical juncture in Venezuela, we should work to bring all possible international pressure to bear on President Chavez to allow the referendum to proceed. The Administration should demonstrate its true commitment to democracy in Latin America by showing determined leadership now, while a peaceful resolution can still be achieved.

Throughout his time in office, President Chavez has repeatedly undermined democratic institutions by using extra-legal means, including politically motivated incarcerations, to consolidate power. In fact, his close relationship with Fidel Castro has raised serious questions about his commitment to leading a truly democratic government.

Moreover, President Chavez’s policies have been detrimental to our interests and those of his neighbors. He has compromised efforts to eradicate drug cultivation by allowing Venezuela to become a haven for narco-terrorists, and sowed instability in the region by supporting anti-government insurgents in Colombia.

The referendum has given the people of Venezuela the opportunity to express their views on his presidency through constitutionally legitimate means. The international community cannot allow President Chavez to subvert this process, as he has attempted to do thus far. He must be pressured to comply with the agreements he made with the OAS and the Carter Center to allow the referendum to proceed, respect the exercise of free expression, and release political prisoners.

Too often in the past, this Administration has sent mixed signals by supporting undemocratic processes in our own hemisphere— including in Venezuela, where they acquiesced to a failed coup attempt against President Chavez. Having just allowed the democratically elected leader to be cast aside in Haiti, they should make a strong statement now by leading the effort to preserve the fragile democracy in Venezuela.

This is no different from the statement in 2006. His position makes perfect sense.

[karynnj]

35. The Venezuelan group

really distorted this comment. Kerry sounds very far from Bush here:

[IndianaGreen]

36. Kerry sounds just like John Bolton!

Chavez’s policies have been detrimental to our interests

Whose interests are you talking about, fucking John F. Kerry? It sure isn't the interests of the American people, or the vast majority of Venezuelans! Fucken asshole! It is stupid shit like this that led to the Pinochet coup in Chile, all for the glory of fucking American "freedom and democracy."

[ProSense]

37. Oh bullshit! Shows the kind of judgement that likens Kerry to Bolton. Ridiculous. n/t

[karynnj]

38. Come on

That is a very low blow. John Kerry and Bolton were on opposing sides their entire career. John Kerry is also not saying that this means they should destabalize the government or depose him - he said exactly the opposite. In the words immediately after those you quoted Kerry says exactly what he is referring to. Kerry headed the effort on drugs and terrorism. His book outlines the dangers of narco states, where the state essentially becomes used by the drug runners. Bolton was one of the people who allowed cocaine to flood the country - so the Contras could be funded. Kerry saw lives destroyed by drugs as a proscecutor.

The fact is that Kerry as President would have done what he said in the Latin America plan I linked to. He would have worked to have good relations. Read of Kerry's history in central America - he did the right things even when noone else would.

[MrPrax]

3. This guy wanted to be President?

And Israel's war didn't have anything to do with the destruction of this 'fragile' democracy?

1) democracies are usually threatened by extremists over the objections of moderates -- which one are you John?

2) unless he's acknowledging a role for Hezbullah in all this, he really doesn't understand the situation anymore than Bush

3) he's worried that Iran is winning the popularity contest in the ME...jeez wonder why? Oh John and his allies helped kill millions of Arabs; that's why John or anyone else in the west is unlikely to win any hearts and minds regardless of how many houses they pay to build

4) Mexico is at the moment a 'fragile democracy' as well and they are right on your border -- spend less time worrying about the irrational racism of the AIPAC lobby and the MIC and a little more time in reality

5) Want something to worry about closer to home, John

Comment -- If Chris Hedges' warning(see article: America's Holy Roller) sounds hyperbolic, consider this: The extremes to which America might take its war against terrorism, recently became shockingly clear to me.

A highly respected national security expert with insider knowledge of Pentagon thinking told me that several senior officers and defense executives have confided the following sentiment to him: "There may come a time when we have to kill millions of Muslims." Not surprisingly, neither is my source willing to name his, nor me mine, but believe me - this is not idle chatter!

The Israel lobby would have everyone believe that the threat of another holocaust emanates from Iran, yet what should generate more alarm: populist rantings from President Ahmadinejad repeating well-worn anti-Zionist rhetoric, or cold predictions circulating inside the U.S. military that an Islamic holocaust may become necessary?

Update -- I can now reveal my source: In a soon-to-be-published essay (and quoted here with the author's permission), Dr. Michael Vlahos (Senior Staff, National Security Analysis Department, Johns Hopkins University) writes:

I can attest to many "Defense World" conversations that have ended with: "the time may come when we will have to kill millions of Muslims," or, "history shows that to win over a people you have to kill at least 10% of them, like the Romans" (for comparison, we killed or contributed to the death of about 5% of Japan from 1944-46, while Russia has killed at least 8% of the Chechen people).

War in Context blog

With people like that ACTUALLY running the show, John, yer not likely to convince anyone of YOUR good intentions -- nobody's buying the good cop/bad cop shit.

Get the fuck out!!!

[karynnj]

5. John Kerry is dealing here with what the situation in Lebanon is

Do you prefer the Bush position of just letting "creative chaos happen?"

Senator Kerry is not responsible for the war last summer and your insults are uncalled for.

[MrPrax]

14. No...

John Kerry is lying...face it.

Kerry doesn't understand the situation any better than Bush

He might as well BE George Bush at this point if he is not calling for withdrawal.

Grow up...

[karynnj]

22. Kerry/Feingold?

Kerry has been one of the strongest voices on Iraq.

John Kerry is an extremely honest man, who was one of the first to call the situation in Iraq a civil war. He has called the war immoral and unjust. Even in 2004, he said a m,illion times that it was not a war of last resort (which makes it not a just war) and it was the wrong war.

Do you think he is lying that Lebanon is in peril?

[IndianaGreen]

24. Kerry/Feingold and Alito's filibuster are among Kerry's finest hours

We disagree about Lebanon and Venezuela.

[mloutre]

6. Lebanon is a very small country, but...

...what is going on there affects the whole Middle East at this point.

Lebanon is only 4,035 square miles in area, while Connecticut has 5,349 square miles within its borders. So that means Lebanon is smaller in size than all but one American state (poor Rhode Island has only 1,214 square miles to its name).

Small in size, yes. But Lebanon is a tinderbox that could set the whole region aflame if its crisis condition is ignored by us here in the United States.

[IndianaGreen]

8. We helped create the crisis in Lebanon by vetoing UN ceasefire resolution

American bombs dropped from Israeli planes send a very clear message to the Lebanese, and undermine the Siniora government.

When it comes to pin blame, we need to look no further than our own image reflected in the mirror.

[Nimrod2005]

10. Agreed 100% - We did not defend the so called young Democracy there and Israeli

army let us down...Big time. They could not win it/defeat Hizballah in few days, ended up being a clusterfuck!!!

[Tom Joad]

16. A move that was fully supported by Kerry, btw.

[IndianaGreen]

18. and Hillary, and the rest of the bots paid by the Israel Lobby

It was a shameful spectacle!

[karynnj]

20. Here is his statement - and it does not support

what was done.

http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=265334

[Tom Joad]

27. It was not Israel that was threatened, it was the people of Lebanon that were attacked

in an illegal act of agression. He is basically giving out the Israeli political line, and this is very troubling. If expected. His words about civilians in Lebanon are empty if he says that Israel has his uncondiitonal support. I wish he had the courage to challenge Olmert like he has the courage to ski down slopes.

[karynnj]

34. There were rockets sent into Israel

I agree that Israel responded at least 10 times harder than they were hit. As to supporting Israel, that has been an American committment for decades. It didn't mean he approved every action they did. His comment was less one sided than most seen - as they were all posted here at the time.

[Tom Joad]

15. Senator Kerry is way out of touch. supporting unconditionally the nation that carpet-bombed

south Lebanon with cluster bomblets is not the way to "moderation". (one million cluster bombs fell on Lebanon, most in the last days of the war. Many of them remain unexploded, to be found by Lebanese kids. some were even found on rooftops and olive trees. Reminds me of that song... Strange Fruit.

Like Bush, Kerry said supported Israel's right to "finish the job". Unlike Dennis Kucinich, who worked to stop the war, Kerry supported the terror of the Israeli military.

We need Democratic leaders who are willing to be critical of Israel. Kerry has found the courage to be critical of Bush, and even came to regret his initial support of Bush's policy in Iraq (he supported the Iraq War Resolution). Perhaps, some day, some year, Kerry could find the courage to question a policy of the government of colonization and apartheid we enable in Tel Aviv.

[karynnj]

19. Kerry did not support Israel "finishing the job"

Here are the first 4 paragraphs of his statement from that time. He states concern for both Lebanon and Israel. I think that Israel did go too far, but they were also attacked and have been for decades. I am glsd that Kerry voted for Feinstein's amendment banning cluster bombs, unlike many of his potential opponents.

Here is the statement:
"Watching the news from the Mideast these days is an exercise in heartbreak. As Israel continues its military operations against Hezbollah and missiles rain on northern Israel, our hearts go out to people suffering all across the Mideast.
We all want peace, and the death of every child—Lebanese in Qana or Israeli in Haifa—is an unspeakable tragedy. But sometimes a just, sustainable peace can only be achieved by addressing the root causes of conflict.

The people of Israel can count on the stalwart support of the United States during these difficult times. We need to put Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria on notice that wiping Israel off the map and slaughtering innocent Israeli civilians are not the legitimate ends and means of foreign policy. Israel will not tolerate that, and neither should America.

At the same time, the Lebanese people must know that Americans also care deeply about protecting innocent civilians and preserving their fragile democracy. And we remain profoundly committed to creating the underlying conditions for a lasting peace in the region. "

http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=265334

Nothing in this op-ed deals with Israel. Do you have a problem with what he is saying here?

[IndianaGreen]

23. You have performed an honorable defence of John Kerry

and while we might disagree on positions Kerry has taken, or failed to take, one some issues, I am glad that the discourse has been civil and not shrilled.

[ProSense]

25. There are people who know the situation

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article2110655.ece

Hezbollah guerillas are still contributing to the destablization of Lebanon.

[Tom Joad]

28. Hezbollah is part of Lebanon. They must be part of the poltical process.

They are very popular.

[karynnj]

30. Thanks - but I think that you should relook at what he is saying on Lebanon

I doubt that your opinion on Lebanon expressed here is all that far from Kerry's.

I assume in the case of Lebanon, you are criticizing the fact that he condemned Hezbollah more than Israel during the violence. However, that is not what he is speaking about here. It sounds to me like he thinks that with a very short time, if no one helps, Lebanon will be in a civil war. He seems to point out that the government in place is the best we could hope for.

I also doubt he sees this as the solution to the entire middle east - it isn't. He has been more wlling to speak of the needs of the West Bank Palestinains than most of his peers.

[Tom Joad]

29. Kerry and Bush (and Olmert) did eventually support a ceasefire,

because Hezbollah could not be defeated. Still, it was a bloodbath, and folks like kerry/bush bear some responsibility.

[karynnj]

32. Kerry had NOTHING to do with Olmert doing what he did

Bush MIGHT have been able to leverage something to get him to pull back. There was nothing that Senator Kerry could do. Do you think EVERY senator and congressman is quilty?

[Tom Joad]

31. Ask his office if he thinks Israel should be supplied more cluster bombs.

this is a man who knows what cluster bombs do. He is a vietnam vet, after all. Was there any concern expressed specifically about what happened in the last days of the war?

In Israel, many Israelis openly condemned their governments conduct. You won't hear any US politician saying a peep, even though the US supplies Israel. Even though u.s. law is being violated by this unacceptable use of u.s. supplied weaponry. silence is a crime.
_________________________________________________________________

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=761781
"What we did was insane and monstrous, we covered entire towns in cluster bombs," the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon said regarding the use of cluster bombs and phosphorous shells during the war.

Quoting his battalion commander, the rocket unit head stated that the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over 1.2 million cluster bomblets.

In addition, soldiers in IDF artillery units testified that the army used phosphorous shells during the war, widely forbidden by international law. According to their claims, the vast majority of said explosive ordinance was fired in the final 10 days of the war.

[karynnj]

33. He voted against Cluster Bombs - as did Obama

Hillary, Dodd, and Biden refused to vote against them.

From Thomas:

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 109th Congress - 2nd Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate


Vote Summary

Question: On the Amendment (Feinstein Amdt. No. 4882 )
Vote Number: 232 Vote Date: September 6, 2006, 12:00 PM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Amendment Rejected
Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 4882 to H.R. 5631
Statement of Purpose: To protect civilian lives from unexploded cluster munitions.
Vote Counts: YEAs 30
NAYs 70
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State


Alphabetical by Senator Name Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Nay
Allard (R-CO), Nay
Allen (R-VA), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Nay
Bennett (R-UT), Nay
Biden (D-DE), Nay
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Nay
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burns (R-MT), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Nay
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Chafee (R-RI), Nay
Chambliss (R-GA), Nay
Clinton (D-NY), Nay
Coburn (R-OK), Nay
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Nay
Collins (R-ME), Nay
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Nay
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
Dayton (D-MN), Yea
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
DeWine (R-OH), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Nay
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Nay
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feingold (D-WI), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Frist (R-TN), Nay
Graham (R-SC), Nay
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Gregg (R-NH), Nay
Hagel (R-NE), Nay
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Hutchison (R-TX), Nay
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Nay
Isakson (R-GA), Nay
Jeffords (I-VT), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Nay
Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Nay
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Nay
Lincoln (D-AR), Nay
Lott (R-MS), Nay
Lugar (R-IN), Nay
Martinez (R-FL), Nay
McCain (R-AZ), Nay
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Nay
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Nay
Nelson (D-NE), Nay
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Nay
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Nay
Salazar (D-CO), Nay
Santorum (R-PA), Nay
Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Nay
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Smith (R-OR), Nay
Snowe (R-ME), Nay
Specter (R-PA), Nay
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Nay
Sununu (R-NH), Nay
Talent (R-MO), Nay
Thomas (R-WY), Nay
Thune (R-SD), Nay
Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Nay
Warner (R-VA), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Yea





http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00232

[IndianaGreen]

39. I see my DLC Senator, Evan Bayh, voted with the GOP

Kudos to Kerry and Obama, and thank you for posting this.