The Left in Israel and the Danger of a Palestinian Civil War

[IndianaGreen]

The Left in Israel and the Danger of a Palestinian Civil War

By Reuven Kaminer

The Israeli left, with few exceptions, supported the two-state policy of Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority under his leadership. The fact that the political formations to the left of Fatah supported this policy was yet an additional factor in shaping the views of the left in Israel.

As is well known, the recent democratic elections in the occupied territories resulted in a surprising but clear victory for Hamas, which proceeded to establish the Palestinian government. There are, of course, a broad variety of versions as to why Fatah's prestige and influence waned. Moreover, the leftist parties in the Palestinian Authority did not do any better. It seems that they were seen by the Palestinian public as having been swallowed up by Fatah and the Authority.

The Traditional Orientation of the Israeli Left on Fatah

The major forces in the Israeli left, and specifically HADASH – the Democratic Front for Peace and Equality (and its major constituent, the CPI (Communist Party of Israel) have a pronounced tendency to support Abu Mazen and Fatah in every aspect of the current crisis in the Palestinian Authority, a crisis that could deteriorate to the threshold of a full scale civil war between Fatah and Hamas.

But, as of now, one can hear voices challenging the traditional position. There are those who even demand a total reversal of policy on the Israeli left and call for support for Hamas in the current crisis. The arguments for this change are intertwined with reasons for withdrawing support from Abu Mazen.

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/4636/1/231/

[Jim Sagle]

1. Communist hogwash!

[IndianaGreen]

3. Those filthy Communists that helped found the State of Israel in 1948!

So sad that our very expensive American education has only succeeded, by design as it turns out, into making its students obedient consumers that upon hearing the word "socialist" go into a Pavlovian negative response.

[UndertheOcean]

12. Is there anything negative about Communism ?

You react as if it is the great Satan.

Instead of a knee jerk reaction I suggest you read some Marx rather than depending on Capitalist propaganda and the ill-fated policies of the former USSR to reach a premature conclusion.

I suggest you start with Hegel first , as a cornerstone.

[Jim Sagle]

14. Sorry, I'm an FDR man myself.

[Amused Musings]

20. Communists are like...

Christians waiting for the Second Coming.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[breakaleg]

2. It shouldn't come as a surprise to see a possibly huge backlash to Fatah accepting all of this

help from Israel and the US. He will be viewed as a puppet and all credibility will be lost.

[pelsar]

4. so abbas should accept no help...?

while hamas gets its help from such liberal govts like iran, hizballa, syria, etc.

am i right to understand that if hamas does get control of gaza and perhaps the westbank you have no problem with a taliban/iran style of regime that takes away almost all rights from women, gays, those who hold hands in public etc......and of course rigs the voting to make sure they stay in power (if there is voting)?

they've made no secret of their govt style they would implement.-theocratic fanatic dictatorship.

[breakaleg]

5. Let's see....

Are you right to understand what? Where in my post did I mention the Taliban? Where in ANY post of mine have I EVER mentioned the taliban?

You may indeed jump off a cliff if you choose, but please don't take me with you. As usual, you are very very wrong. Nice try though. And remember this post of yours next time you are wondering why no one will answer your inane questions.

[pelsar]

6. there are consequences for actions...

or inactions...the reason many people here dont answer my posts (you included) is mainly because they dont like to look at what actions or inaction may bring.

its easy to stick to ones principles and "logical beliefs' as long as one doesnt have to actually apply them (or look at the history of the region or some simple statistics)....hence my questions go unanswered. They would after all place one in some very uncomfortable posistions.

as per the above. if abbas doesnt have the military power to thwart hamas he may very will "lose"....with the consequence of hamas taking over...Hamas in turn is very much like the taliban in their beliefs, hence the connection.

[breakaleg]

7. Wrong. You seem to have an agenda and in your many posts you

hit the "reply" button but talk about something completely unrelated to to my posts.

Stop using me to push your opinions. If you have something to say, start your own thread.

[pelsar]

8. yes i do have an agenda...

the discussions use history, statistics, local culture and above all take the time to actually explore what the consequences, the actual ones the might come out of any particular previous action....oh yes and not only be willing to answer any and all questions but also at least prove (as much as possible on the internet) what one claims to be true.

you make a statement that abbas will be a puppet if the takes amercian and israeli help....and if he doesnt?...what are the consequences of NOT taking their aid?

[breakaleg]

9. for the last time...

from you: "am i right to understand that if hamas does get control of gaza and perhaps the westbank you have no problem with a taliban/iran style of regime that takes away almost all rights from women, gays, those who hold hands in public etc......and of course rigs the voting to make sure they stay in power (if there is voting)?"

Can you tell me where the heck I said this or anything similar?

To add to your post above, don't forget that you also like to misrepresent posts to have them mean what you want them to, rather than what they actually do.

Here, you have accused me of saying something I didn't say, and then in the same post you are essentially criticizing me for having these views you have assigned to me. Do you not see the absurdity of these kinds of posts? Isn't there enough here for you to jump on so that you don't have to go making things up?

[pelsar]

10. so how do you see the consequences?

you wrote:
It shouldn't come as a surprise to see a possibly huge backlash to Fatah accepting all of this help from Israel and the US. He will be viewed as a puppet and all credibility will be lost.

sounds like you think abbas shouldnt accept help....

you didnt say what that means, you just implied that he shouldnt accept help...i just added a possible consequence that could happen if he didnt accept help....something you seemed to have "forgotten to do"

if you think i am wrong, by all means tell me and it would be nice to see how you see the consequences of him not accepting help.....

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Andromeda]

13. Excellent points!

.

[Jim Sagle]

15. Fuckin' A.

[Ken Burch]

17. As FDR usually DIDN'T put it.

You wanna maybe try actually making an arguement for or against a position sometime, Jim?

This really gets old.

[Jim Sagle]

18. I liked you better when I/P was down.

[UndertheOcean]

19. Fuckin-A-Deleted ...

? Missed it.