2 bombs capable of destroying tank found near Gaza fence

[drdon326]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/344796.html

Two 50-kilogram explosive devices, each capable of
destroying a tank, were found Saturday night by
Israel Defense Forces troops near the Sufa
crossing, planted alongside the Gaza Strip
security fence, Israel Radio reported.

IDF and Border Police sappers safely detonated the
explosives.

The French news agency reported clashes erupted between Israel
Defense Forces troops and Palestinian youngsters in the
West Bank city of Jenin, Army Radio reported.


The youngsters were hurling rocks at the
soldiers and the report claimed occasional gun
shots were being heard. No injuries were reported.

According to local residents, the IDF declared a
curfew in the city and was searching for wanted
militants.

It was released for publication late Saturday
that two Palestinian youths were arrested the
previous night after crossing the security
fence near the Sufa crossing. According to the
Israel Radio report, the two were paid by a
Palestinian to retrieve for him two bags
planted next to the fence which contained
weapons.

......................................................

STICKS AND STONES ......MY ASS.

[cherryperry]

1. I went back to the promenade and what did I see?

My hero, drdon326, working again for me!

My humble apologies, dear one, I haven't the stomach to go back to I/P and so I'm glad I could respond before missing this one.

Again:

duck and cover

etc etc etc

With Much Love and Respect,

cherry

:cry:

:loveya:

:yourock:

:loveya:

[drdon326]

2. No reason not to post.

Everyone is very......uhhhh......very.....friendly...

yeah thats the word i was looking for.

[tinnypriv]

3. You want *what* done to your ass?

Doc, take it to the lounge. :spank:

[Darranar]

4. So?

These bombs were meant to be used against tanks - legitimate targets of Palestinian resistance. If the Palestinians are able to target combatants instead of civilians, that would be an excellent developement.

[drdon326]

5. HUH??

Where does it say it was meant for a tank??

it says "each capable of destroying a tank",
and given the history of these bombs, it was probably
meant to take out ANOTHER group of innocent people.

you want to try that "palestinian resistance" theory
again??

[Darranar]

6. Good point...

I made that comment partially in reference to the rest of the article, in which Palestinians fired on the IDF.

[drdon326]

8. You said....

"If the Palestinians are able to target combatants instead of civilians, that would be an excellent developement."

First its not "palestinians"....

ITS PALESTINIAN TERRORISTS.

2ND....

Able ??....interesting choice of words.

oh ...they are " able " to target the IDF but its
seems they enjoy targeting innocent jews riding busses
or eating pizza or passover sedars ....

what you should have said was...

"If the Palestinians TERRORISTS TRIED to target combatants instead of CRAVENLY TARGETING INNOCENT civilians, that would HIGHLY UNUSUAL GIVEN THEIR TRACT RECORD OF ATROCITIES AGAINST INNOCENTS.

[MariMayans]

9. nah

Al-Aqsa's claim to fame was blowing up Merkeva tanks with satchel charges. Of course this is essentially a suicidal manuever, you probably are going to get turned into hamburger by a fletchette round before you get close enough to blow the thing and in the likely result of failure you are definately dead. It's not suprising that given those odds they prefer a guaranteed penalty to pay for their lives with instead of a 10-20% shot.

[drdon326]

12. WOW...

After reading that post, i think i need a drink.

:beer:

[Gimel]

29. Land mines

The charges are placed under the tanks. Those who plant them are usually far away when it ignites.

[MariMayans]

31. what sort of land mine takes out a Merkava?

They must be making them BIG these days!

[MariMayans]

34. ah, found it..

They buried one-hundred pound bombs in the road.

[Darranar]

10. Okay...

Whatever.

[drdon326]

13. Thats it ?!?! Whatever ?!?!

??

[Darranar]

16. Yah...

that's it because you're basically right that my phrasing was wrong, but I really don't see how it relates to the discussion.

[Gimel]

22. In Jenin

The article is covering many things within the course of a day. The attacks on tanks was in Jenin (West Bank) the bombs near the border fence in Gaza.

[Darranar]

23. Okay...

but if these bombs were made to target innocent people, wouldn't Haaretz have reported that they were filled with nails designed to make very damaging shrapnel? That seems to have been a favorite tactic of Palestinian terrorists, and if these bombs were made so well I think that that kind of thing would have been included - if they were designed to target innocents.

But I really don't know. They could well have been made for that purpose.

[drdon326]

26. But the fact is.....

you immediately labeled it as "PALESTINIAN RESISTANCE"
without knowing.

[Darranar]

28. Terrorism is Palestinian resistance...

it simply doesn't target legitimate targets and accomplishes absolutely nothing for the Palestinian cause.

[Gimel]

35. Intifada

The so-call up-rising "Intifada" is supposed to resist what? It actually consists of attacks on Israel and Israeli citizens, as far more civilians than military have been killed.

therefore, it is an attack on the existance of Israel. If they were attacking the "occupation", they wouldn't have begun the Intifada after a failed peace-process.

[Darranar]

36. They're resisting...

what they percieve as the Israeli occupation - which, of course, is different from what I percieve as the Israeli occupation. They're still resisting it, therefore it's resistance, legitimate or not.

[Gimel]

44. What they want:

Here it is from the PA:

The PA's repudiation of was a forgone conclusion, says Bishara, since he only conceded a state to the Palestinians, but not "peace with justice." According to Bishara, justice means yielding the Old City of Jerusalem; accepting Palestinian refugees into Israel; paying $40-200 billion in reparations, and removing all the settlements. Oh, and "undemocratic" Israel must eventually jettison its Jewish national culture too.

Stumbling through the rubble:
ERIK SCHECHTER. Jerusalem Post. Jerusalem: Sep 5, 2003. pg. 12.B
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jpost/index.html?ts=1064780756

[MariMayans]

7. who?

Who can they blow up other than the IDF in Gaza?

[Gimel]

15. Near a crossing point

The bag could have been intended to be carried into Israel, but fearing detection, was dumped. Another possibility, someone was supposed to pick it up later and get it over concealed in some produce or such.

On edit: There are a few Israeli settlements inside Gaza.

[MariMayans]

18. Gaza hasn't been open for years

Unless they have an Israeli to take it through it's not going anywhere.

[Gimel]

24. 25,000 workers cross daily

You are not serious. Wherever you got that idea, it's simply not true. Gaza is fenced in by the gates operate daily. When there is a security alert, or attacks occur the gates are usually closed. Also closed for holidays.

[Darranar]

25. Isn't it a holiday still right now?

It certainly was when this whole affair occured...

Especially in the light of other events, wouldn't they have closed the gates for the Jewish New Year?

[Gimel]

33. Yes,

Although the holiday technically ended several hours ago. The borders were closed, according to radio reports. The crossing points may not be open until tomorrow morning. The bag could have been waiting for someone to pick it up then.

[MariMayans]

32. anything to back that up?

as far as I know Palestinians have been locked out since 2001. The intermitent closures deal with internationals not Palestinians.

[Gimel]

37. Gaza security

Perhaps there's something on Ha'arets. I live in Israel and I listen to news broadcasts and watch TV boradcasts daily. The Artuz 7 site, www.israelnationalnews.com might have it or www.jpost.com.

Generally, more workers are allowed in from Gaza than from the West Bank.

Maybe you are thinking of the suicide bombers, none of which came from Gaza. The reason is that Gaza has better security, being fenced in. The checkpoints would discover anyone entering with explosive belts.

The Palestinians have not been "locked in" in Gaza. They are not able to enter without cutting the fence or crossing over the fence, which sometimes happens.

[MariMayans]

42. I don't believe that's correct

For some reason unemployment in Gaza hit 60% after 2001 and every source I've ever seen says it's because they can't leave.

[Gimel]

43. Overall

That is a low estimate, from what I recall. Of course there's high unemployment. The border crossings have been closed most of the time since the Intifada began. Only in the past few weeks have they started to open again.

[Gimel]

11. What is excellent...

is that the bombs were discovered by alert security persons. More attacks, both on military and civilian targets have been detected and prevented than the number that have succeeded.

[Darranar]

14. *cough* *hack*...

I have severe disagreements with Dershowitz over that talking point, especially since the only evidence there is for it is the IDF's greatly exxagerated claims. I think that those counter-terror operations simply aid the domestic problems that cause terrorist attacks, and so they often end up causing more problems then they may have solved.

[Gimel]

20. many false alarms

This is true. I've seen several times that an entire street is cordoned off, or a bus suddenly turns around and makes a bee-line for the station (the driver having noticed an unattended package). A woman in the building next door called the police because she thought she saw something suspicious in the dumpster. Children are trained to be watchful of unattended packages, and to report anything suspicious.

But a report that is followed up can lead to a bomb being detected as well. That's why 90% of the reports are taken seriously. Several major incidents were prevented by alert citizens in tha past few months.

[Darranar]

21. Of course a few are prevented...

but do we agree that the IDF claims are greatly exxagerated, especially since "counter-terror" operations in the WB and Gaza often do nothing of the sort?

[Gimel]

27. No, I don't agree with that

IDF claims are not exaggerated. Sometimes estimates are given in round figures, but I don't think there is antention to exaggerate. The number of actual explosive finds and attacks prevented is accurate. the number of warnings are estimated. Like they might say that they have been receiving up to 500 a day, up from 30 a day the previous month, etc.

There is not intention to alarm the public unnecessarily. It is not done to impress you.

[Darranar]

30. I think it is done to impress you...

"Look! Our great and inhumanitarian Likud policies have been so successful! Vote for us in the next election!"

I hold very little trust in a right-wing government, or any government for that matter.

[Gimel]

38. IDF is not Likud

Besides, this level of security was also alert under Barak and other Labor governments. It doesn't change because of the new Prime Minister.

[Darranar]

40. That wasn't my point...

my point is that the number of suicide bombings supposedly prevented by the IDF are greatly exxagerated. Some are, but nowhere near the levels that are advertised. This is propaganda designed to convince the Israeli public that the IDF's, and through them the Likud's, tactics are working.

[MariMayans]

you take that seriously?

I think their claims that they are "stopping terrorism" are about as real as Soviet Era production reports.

[Darranar]

19. Agreed...

this is just another one of their exxagerated lies for political gain, like the way Bushco was saying how many "terrorists" (ie innocent Muslims) they had rounded up after 9/11.

[Gimel]

39. Sorry

That is nto true. many explosive devices are detected and reported by live TV coverage. It is prime time news in Israel.

[Darranar]

41. As many as the IDF advertises?

And lots of things can be fabricated.

[MariMayans]

17. damn DCForum