Hebron settlers filmed throwing rocks at Palestinians

[Scurrilous]

Just two months after shocking footage of settler cursing Palestinian in Hebron revealed, yet another video shows settler children throwing rocks at Palestinian homes. Muhammad Abu Aisha: 'I yelled to the soldiers and policemen standing 70 feet away but they pretended they couldn't see'

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3373865,00.html

<snip>

"The settlers continue to curse us and throw rocks at us, including the cursing settler Ifat Elkobi. Only this time she's being smarter about it. She brings friends who live outside this area so we can't recognize them and then can't complain about them," 70-year-old Muhammad Abu-Aisha said on Wednesday night of the harassment and humiliation he suffers at the hands of his settler neighbors.

According to Abu-Aisha after the video of Elkobi was released the harassment lessened for several days, but since then it has returned to its original level.

Abu Aisha says that on Wednesday a neighbor beat his grandson: "He started hitting Muhammad, my grandson, and I stood and shouted to the soldiers and policemen, who were standing 70 feet away to intervene.

"But they pretended they couldn't see. I called the police, I told them we'd been beaten and that the incident was filmed. They said: bring in the video and come to file a complaint, but we chose to give the movie to B'Tselem."

[breakaleg]

1. What are they teaching their children?

I wish I could understand the dialogue. It looked like the child's father put a stop to it. But then what kind of environment must this child live in to learn this behavior in the first place?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[breakaleg]

3. So, you don't see anything wrong with this? I knew it wouldn't be difficult to find someone who

condones this kind of thing.

[winter999]

5. Of course I don't condone this. My point is that you call out these children

when there are other children not 1 mile away that are preparing to suicide bomb women and children. There seems to be a disproportionate criticism. What I'd like to see are Israeli children throwing baseballs at a Palestinian batter.

[breakaleg]

6. This child appeared to be about 10. And I believe your point was to say

that "they" do bad things as well, so it's ok.

[winter999]

8. No, my point was before you talk about the stick in the Israelis' eye,

address the tree in the Palestinians' eye. Do you suppose those children would be throwing stones if they weren't under a state of war that the Palestinians have declared against them and their moms and dads?

That being said, I don't see anything positive in either camp.

[breakaleg]

10. Are you serious? Do you realize this took place in Hebron and these particular settlers

are raving lunatics? Yes, they are in a state of war. At the moment, the Hebron settlers are trying to expunge the local Palestinian residents from their homes. You should really look this up.

There was a video posted here recently where an IDF soldier spoke about the actions of these group of settlers. He said they would do things like kill Palestinians in plain sight of the IDF knowing there would be no repercussions. They would lock people out of their homes and break down walls and claim the house for themselves.

That anyone can defend this bunch is beyond me.

[mainegreen]

4. It's true! I also hear all Americans kill Iraqis! All Americans deserve to be stoned!

Or so goes your logic.

:eyes:

[winter999]

7. Then Fire It Up and pass that blunt.

:smoke:

(before you get irate, I know what you mean)

[mainegreen]

9. Ah, you're position was made more clear in this thread. Just so. Here's a spliff.

Enjoy.
:7

[Tom Joad]

23. bye now.

[Igel]

38. Try this.

They are teaching their children that the land is theirs by right and by history, that the local holy place is where their ancestors are buried and that it is *their* holy place, one bequeathed to them in perpetuity. The land is occupied by interlopers and invaders with no valid ties to the land, who moreover teach a false religion in territory that has been sanctified through conquest for the true religion to hold; moreover, these interlopers oppress the righteous and rightful owners and inhabitants. Their job and their children's is to expel the infidel occupier and restore pure religion to the land under the aegis of its true owners as the one deity orders.

In this case, it's the Jewish settlers doing the teaching. In other cases, it's Muslim Arabs doing the teaching.

It's the same psychosis and hate no matter how you cut it.

[Rage for Order]

11. I've often heard this is no big deal

Every time I've heard of Israeli police firing rubber bullets or tear gas to disburse Palestinians who were throwing rocks at them, the most common refrain is "The kids were only throwing rocks! What were the soldiers afraid of??? Why did they over-react?" Yet now, when Israelis are throwing rocks it's suddenly a big deal? How's that work? What harm can 10 year old kids throwing rocks do?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[breakaleg]

13. From your example...

In one instance, people throw rocks and they are shot at with rubber bullets in return. Also these are civilians resisting an army occupying their land.

In the other, people throw rocks at people as they walk out their front door, children as they walk to school, harass them on a daily basis, the IDF stand idly by doing NOTHING and there are NO repercussions. In this instance, it's illegal settlers tormenting and in some cases harming people in their own homes, on their own land.

You figure it out.

[Rage for Order]

39. I was merely pointing out...

The hypocrisy in saying it's understandable that kids throw rocks in an attempt to provoke a response from the IDF in one instance, but when kids on the other side do the same thing it is suddenly an "assault". When you were a child, did anyone ever throw anything at you, e.g. rocks, snowballs, sticks, anything? Sounds like normal behavior for a 10 year old boy. We used to have bottle rocket fights, shot at each other with BB guns, threw rocks at each other, and numerous other mischevious things that little boys do, and I wasn't part of a decades-old conflict.

[breakaleg]

40. If as a child I did what the settler children do regularly, I would have been put in

juvenile hall, assuming my parents were stupid enough to stand by and do nothing, which they never would have. The differences are great between the two groups.

[Tom Joad]

14. Rocks are often directed toward 10 year old Palestinian kids,

not equivelent to kids who are throwing stones at an occupation army (that does have a choice to go home, rather than continuing the illegal occupation).

I think there is a difference...

[pelsar]

15. did i get this right?

breakaleg: .....Also these are civilians resisting an army occupying their land.

tom: not equivelent to kids who are throwing stones at an occupation army....I think there is a difference...

______

so, can i now assume from these posts that you guys finally confirm that its "ok" to throw rocks at at soldiers...?

now i may have misunderstood, and it maybe that your just explaining the differences in the environments: the settlers throwing rocks at innocent palestinians while the solders represent the IDF and therefore are "provoking" the Palestinians, hence my question....and if i am wrong a bit of elaboration would be appropriate.

[breakaleg]

16. I think my post was perfectly clear. Now, are you saying it's ok for these settlers to assault

their Palestinian neighbors?

[pelsar]

17. no i am not..

Its is not ok for these settlers to assault palestinians they should be tossed in jail and their kids be given some new "teaching.." (like perhaps learning to play with their neighbors kids, etc)



now how about you....i need clarification, just to be clear (since i am always told that i misunderstand, so heres a chance to really make it clear)

you agree that its reasonable to throw rocks (tom and in both confirm that they are rocks) at soliders.

just looking for the EXACT same confirmation that i just gave you.

[breakaleg]

18. I'll try.

Regarding Palestinians throwing rocks at the IDF: Reasonable? No. Understandable within the realities of the occupation - Yes.

It's a form or protest and to be expected.

As I said in my post, the differences between the two scenarios is not only that the targets are IDF soldiers versus civilians, but also that there are consequences for the Palestinian perpetrators - severe ones - and NO consequences for the settler perpetrators.

[pelsar]

19. still vague...

come on ...I too can make an easy argument given the environment, history etc for rocks, guns etc. for the palestinians....

the question at hand is so so so simple

do you condone it or not?....the rock throwing on both sides?



personally i find this whole idea of 'neutrality" to be a joke.....as you mentioned you believe its understandable for the a palestinians to throw rocks (and i do too, and to use guns etc)....but your always attempting to pretend that you can be neutral here, and i dont believe you are. You really dont need to pretend.

[breakaleg]

20. I'm done. If you can't manage to understand my simple statements I can't help you.

[pelsar]

21. just answer my question as i answered yours...

its really one or the other.....In this case.

you personally agree that the palesteinains can throw rocks and the soldiers and that the settlers cant throw rocks at the palestinians.


or that throwing rocks is bad no matter who does it and you condem both sides......


really really simple and not the least bit vague..the exact way i answered your question (or is that the problem?)

[Tom Joad]

22. are the two things similiar? civilians throwing rocks at unarmed civilians

in Hebron. often the targets being children.

Compared with children or young people throwing rocks at an occupation army that is illegally dispossessing the people of their land and rights? an army that destroys homes? Uproots trees? destroys their roads. Sometimes kills children. Sometimes tortures people.

Are you suggesting that?
Even most pacifists would see that the things are not equivalent.

[pelsar]

24. are we avoiding a simple question here?

what is so complicated about my question?.... I am asking for an OPINION

i understand the environment and the differences very well.....but that is not what i am asking:

i simply want to know if the rock throwing is condemed by you and breakaleg and violet across the board for both sides.....its really really that simple.


what is the problem with answering? i was asked and gave an unequivocal answer..i am just asking for the same
(this is the 9th post...and my question remains unaswered and violet hasnt even started....lets see how many posts my question can go unanswered for....)

[breakaleg]

25. You want to know "if rock throwing is condemed" across the board! I actually laughed out loud!

This is a forum in which several members routinely excuse any and all behavior by the IDF against Palestinians because on some piece of paper somewhere it's written that Hamas - note: not ALL Palestinians - want Israel gone.

And you are so concerned with finding fault with Palestinians that you can't comment on what this fairly simple video shows of a young child settler's actions.

[pelsar]

26. i did comment..without a problem

i am more interested and fascinated with the double standard and the lack of what i perceive as honestly

and how its seems to be so so difficult for posters here to make simple unequivocal statements about simple actions...and how they do so much to avoid answering:

first they would disappear
then they would claim "they answered"
then i got "i wont answer your stuiped question"
then i get "its irrelevant"
and recently: if you dont understand i cant help you

now i get: other forums they talk about.... so why are you so concerned about ...in this forum
_______

amazing isnt it....so many ways to avoid such a simple question..... (10 posts so far and counting....)
_________________________________________

You want to know "if rock throwing is condemed" across the board!...yes i do

[breakaleg]

27. I just read all of your posts and couldn't find your "comment" on the question you raised.

As for the rest of your post, I have no idea what you are talking about. I answered your question very clearly, more than once.

So all that unintelligible rambling is just that. Other forums? What are you talking about?

[pelsar]

28. lets try again: very simple......

you asked me:

Now, are you saying it's ok for these settlers to assault their Palestinian neighbors?

and I wrote:

Its is not ok for these settlers to assault palestinians they should be tossed in jail and their kids be given some new "teaching.."

(like perhaps learning to play with their neighbors kids, etc)
___________________________________________________________________

now i am asking you:

is it In your opinion, ok for the palestinians to throw rocks at soldiers?

[breakaleg]

29. I apologize - I found your post above. see post #19

[pelsar]

31. i understand the explanation...

and i have no problem with one explaining the circumstances as both you and tom have (and of which i am familiar with)..

when you write:
Regarding Palestinians throwing rocks at the IDF: Reasonable? No. can i take that to mean that you see it as wrong?

because i am constantly accused of misunderstanding, etc i am simply trying to confirm what i believe i understand.

[Tom Joad]

30. Do check out the Tel Rumeida Project at this website....

http://www.telrumeidaproject.org/index.html

Tel Rumeida is a small Palestinian
neighborhood in the West Bank city of
Hebron widely-acknowledged as housing
the most violent and extremist faction of
the Israeli settler movement. Palestinian
families who live directly next to these
settlers are often virtual prisoners in their
homes, subject to the settlers’ violent
attacks and destruction of property.


Filled with information as to how you can help.

[Violet_Crumble]

32. The quotes page is a real eye-opener...

http://www.telrumeidaproject.org/settler_quotes.html

NOAM FEDERMAN
AVRAHAM AVINU SETTLEMENT
“I think the government should put bombs in hospitals but unfortunately the
government doesn't do it, so it is up to the people to do those things.”
Suzanne Goldenberg, “Israel thwarts Jewish bomb attack on school,” The Guardian, May 13,
2002.

[breakaleg]

33. It baffles me that anyone who can view those videos, read those comments and still support Hebron

settlers.

[pelsar]

34. whats hard to understand?

those who support hamas and hizballa and islamic jihad....are the same type of people who support the settlers of hebron...they have the same base material....

god gives them the right to do what they want to others.....

[breakaleg]

35. Who here supports Hamas and Hezbollah? No one that I've seen.

[pelsar]

36. didnt say anybody does...

i was just putting the settlers into perspective of the region, if you listen to them listen to many from hamas and hizballa, they all sound the same,they're interchangeable

[Shaktimaan]

37. Who here supports the settlers?

None that I've seen.