Years of Strife and Lost Hope Scar Young Palestinians

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Their worried parents call them the lost generation of Palestine: its most radical, most accepting of violence and most despairing.

They are the children of the second intifada that began in 2000, growing up in a territory riven by infighting, seared by violence, occupied by Israel, largely cut off from the world and segmented by barriers and checkpoints.

To hear these young people talk is to listen in on budding nihilism and a loss of hope.

“Ever since we were little, we see guns and tanks, and little kids wanting little guns to fight against Israel,” said Raed Debie, 24, a student at An Najah University here.

Issa Khalil, 25, broke in, agitated. “We never see anything good in our lives,” he said. He was arrested for throwing stones in the first intifada, the civil disobedience that began in the late 1980s and led to the 1993 Oslo accords with Israel. He was arrested again in the second uprising as the agreement faltered.

“And for what?” he asked. “I wasted 14 years of my life. We all did. For five years I haven’t left Nablus. Here there’s unemployment and no peace; it retreats, we go backward.”

While generations of young Palestinians have grown up stateless, seething at Israel as the visible agent of oppression, this generation is uniquely stymied."

more

[Englander]

1. "Enough!"

Israeli checkpoints, barriers and closures, installed to protect Israelis from Palestinian suicide bombers, have lowered these young people’s horizons, shrunk their notion of Palestine and taken away virtually any informal interaction with outsiders, let alone with ordinary Israelis. The security measures have become even tighter since the election to power a year ago of the Islamist group Hamas, which preaches eternal “resistance” to Israeli occupation and rejects Israel’s right to permanent existence on this land.

During most of the 1980s and ’90s, as many as 150,000 Palestinians came into Israel daily to work, study and shop. While they were not treated as equals, many learned Hebrew and established relationships.

Now, the only Israelis whom Palestinians see are armed — soldiers and settlers. The West Bank is cut into three parts by checkpoints; Gazan men under 30 are virtually unable to leave their tiny, poor and overcrowded territory. Few talk of peace, only of a lifetime of “resistance.”

Enough! Enough! Enough!
http://www.enoughoccupation.org/enough

[Douglas Carpenter]

2. very sad but unfortunately it appears all to true -- a rarity for the New York Times

when it comes to discussing this conflict.


As far as hopelessness, even among adults Palestinians, I work with a lot of Palestinians including Christians. In the early and mid 90's most were optimistic that a state and a better future were coming. Now, not a single one of them; not one, believes that Israel will ever willingly make peace with them if peace includes a genuinely sovereign and independent Palestinian state - no matter how much the Palestinians compromise. Not one of them believes that Israel will ever willingly agree to a settlement based on what they are entitled to under International Law; or even most of what they are entitled to under International Law. Not one of them either Christian or Muslim, religious or secular believes that Israel will ever willingly treat them with respect and equality of human worth; not a single one.

[papau]

3. Sad - the new very tight Hamas rules are ending what little freedom they did have -

historic stories to entertain the kids were banned the other day by Hamas.

I'm sure my count of Palestinian acquaintances is much less than yours, but most (and they have all been in the US for 5 years or more but with relatives back in the mid-east) not only hate the Israeli occupation (and the Israeli), they also blame their own leadership for the lack of a state, and while claiming they have a right of return are willing to turn that right into cash and a peace treaty and get on with life.

Maybe the old farts I speak with (and their 45 year old kids) are different from the usual Christian or Muslim from the area - but there really is no burning suicide approving hate in them, and there is an appreciation for how stupid their own leaders were for turning down Taba (and other sins that are local, tribal, and which I do not have enough background to understand). Even Arafat said he made a mistake in turning down Taba.

I have not run across those that tell me that they, or their Christian or Muslim friends from the area, religious or secular, "believes that Israel will ever willingly treat them with respect and equality of human worth" - although all call for more US pressure on Israel.

But again, mine is a small sample. But apparently there are different attitudes out there.

[Tom Joad]

4. Those negotiations would have continued if there were not new (mis)leaders

elected in the US and Israel.

Reports vary about what was actually offered at Camp David, but it is clear that the offer was a lot less generous than Barak has claimed. What we know is that the Palestinians were offered sovereignty over a very small part of Jerusalem, and that their capitol would have actually been in Abu Dis, a small suburb, and not in Jerusalem itself. The so-called 95% of the West Bank excluded all of the Greater Jerusalem area, which has grown considerably since 1967. Israel would also have maintained control of much of the Jordan Valley, for an indefinite security period. Thus, along with the proposed accommodations for certain key Israeli settlements, the offer was actually about 80% of the West Bank. Further, according to maps publicized by Gush Shalom and the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, the areas remaining under Israeli control would have effectively split the West bank in two and would have surrounded the Palestinian areas. For this, the Palestinians were to give up all claims resulting from the mass expulsion in 1948. Having already conceded 78% of what was once Mandatory Palestine, this did not strike the Palestinians as a ?generous offer?. It is true that Barak?s offer was much more than had ever been offered the Palestinians before. But this really says more about previous offers than it does about the Camp David offer. After seven years of the Oslo Process, which saw Palestinian standards of living decline markedly and the greatest period of Israeli settlement expansion by far, it was impossible for any Palestinian leader to compromise this far. For more on Camp David and the beginning of the current uprising, follow this
http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/barak.htm

[papau]

7. The camp David cantons were lousy - but check out the Taba discussions - then cjeck out the

son of Taba - the Geneva private effort - that arrives at a very fair way to end the conflict - indeed the only way to end it.

[Tom Joad]

5. I think the PA has very little control over the freedom,or lack thereof in Occupied Palestine.

It is under military occupation, after all.

[papau]

8. The thousands that protested a few weeks ago were protested Hamas rules - not the

Israeli occupation (but of course the Israeli occupation is hated, as it should be - but it was Hamas that was trying to end freedom of religion and freedom of thought and freedom to assemble - and it was Hamas that the Palestinians were protesting - and they were successful in that the classic children's stories that have been told to Palestinian children for ages can once again be told - Hamas withdrew their little attempt at mind control/book control/control of religious belief/control of behavior by saying that reading to children was against their - Hamas's "God"'s - version of Islam).

[Douglas Carpenter]

9. according to the EU notes, no actual offer was ever made at Taba 2001,

However, it does appear that real progress may have been under way.

It is true that most Palestinians I know (and the rest of the Arab world as well) do think America has the power and ability to force Israel into accepting an agreement that would give them a genuine independent and sovereign state. Palestinians are simply not a hateful people by nature. And I do agree that most do complain bitterly about the corruption within the Palestinian Authority. Considering that polls among Palestinians show that less than 3% support an Islamic state and more than 75% support a peaceful settlement with the Israelis ( http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/12493 ) I'm inclined to believe that frustration with Fatah was a leading factor in why Hamas won the legislative elections, not because of ideological support.

Regarding Taba in January 2001 what is disconcerting is that Prime Minister Barak quickly distanced himself from the offer and claimed publicly that these were only talks not official negotiations. Also, Mr. Sharon who was expected by everyone to win the elections had stated categorically that he would not honor any such treaty if it was signed. Now recent polls in Israel show Bibi Netanyahu and Likud having a commanding lead.

Here is a link to the European Union summary document regarding the Taba talks first published in Haaretz on February 14, 2001:

http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/MEPP/PRRN/papers/moratinos.html

"Moratinos Document" - The peace that nearly was at Taba

By Akiva Eldar

Ha'aretz
14 February 2002 - link:

snip" This document, whose main points have been approved by the Taba negotiators as an accurate description of the discussions, casts additional doubts on the prevailing assumption that Ehud Barak "exposed Yasser Arafat's true face." It is true that on most of the issues discussed during that wintry week of negotiations, sizable gaps remain. Yet almost every line is redolent of the effort to find a compromise that would be acceptable to both sides. It is hard to escape the thought that if the negotiations at Camp David six months earlier had been conducted with equal seriousness, the intifada might never have erupted. And perhaps, if Barak had not waited until the final weeks before the election, and had instead sent his senior representatives to that southern hotel earlier, the violence might never have broken out."

link to the rest of Mr. Eldar's analysis as well as complete summary documents known as the "Moratinos Document"

http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/MEPP/PRRN/papers/moratinos.html

__________________________

Here is a link to very long 43 page pdf file summary. The article is neutral and dispassionate. It gives a very calm and rational critique of all sides:

Visions in Collisions: What Happened at Camp David and Taba
by Dr. Jeremy Pressman, University of Connecticut

link:

http://anacreon.clas.uconn.edu/~pressman/history.pdf


.

[breakaleg]

10. This caught my eye, in the interest of fairness.

" Another dispute that remained unresolved stemmed from Israel's refusal to accept the Palestinian demand for a 1:1 ratio between the area of the West Bank annexed to Israel and the parts of Israel that would be given to the Palestinians in exchange. Israel proposed a ratio of 1:2, in its favor."

So does that mean that any land swap would mean Israel gets twice the physical amount of land from the West Bank that it gives back in exchange? I'm sure this is a minor point but it certainly says a lot about the intent of Israel in this thing. In what context would that ever be considered fair of just? And what does it say about Israel to ask for that?

[Douglas Carpenter]

11. Professor Tanya Reinhart of Tel Aviv University argues that Taba

was nothing more than a cynical PR stunt by the Barak government. Dr. Reinhart does a detailed analysis in her book:

Israel/Palestine: How to End the War of 1948 -- Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Palestine-1948-Open-Media/dp/1583226516/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/102-8701952-4352901?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173763065&sr=1-2

Professor Reinhart wrote an equally compelling and pessimistic book just last year called:

The Road Map to Nowhere: Israel/Palestine Since 2003 Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/Road-Map-Nowhere-Israel-Palestine/dp/1844670767/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/102-8701952-4352901?ie=UTF8&qid=1173763065&sr=1-2

As depressing as Dr. Reinhart sounds she is only a Jewish Israeli academic who is saying publicly what every single Palestinians I know, moderate or radical, secular or religious, Christian or Muslim has been saying for the past five years; every single one; without exception.

.

[breakaleg]

12. I just ordered the second book you linked. coincidence.

[dusmcj]

6. cynical "leaders" with a culturally vested interest in corruption complete the process

It's easy to make backroom plays for power, and rewarding as well.

If the Palestinians and the rest of the Third World would figure out that their current leadership is still largely composed of the spiritual descendants of the corrupt accomodationist trash that made and profited from deals with the colonial powers they would be better off. And if they acted appropriately based on coming to this conclusion, even better.

It's the game that's the problem, which is why the game and the status quo that it represents are the one thing that reactionaries across the ideological and geographic/cultural spectrums try their utmost to place off limits.

A Hezbollah parasite flatulating about the "dismantling of the State of Israel" while his people are bombed by the Israelis is no different than a lardtub stating the same thing at a US antiwar rally while her people wait in line at checkpoints, is no different than corrupt trash in Africa or Mexico fucking their publics while licking the shit out of western ass for "global" cash. Cheap and unrealizable fantasies legitimized by exhorting the people to fight (well, that sounds like some DNC mailings as well...) and justifying the continuing privilege without tangible evidence of activity of the "leaders".

Time to take out the trash, "globally".