Amnesty Int'l: No One is Safe (in Israel and the O.T.)

[Resistance]

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE150882003

Israel/occupied territories: No one is safe - the spiral of killings and destruction must stop

"No one feels safe in Israel and the Occupied Territories. As the intifada enters its fourth year there appears to be no end in sight to the growing spiral of killings, violence and destruction", said Amnesty International.

Since the beginning of the Palestinian uprising on 29 September 2000 the Israeli army has killed more than 2,200 Palestinians, including 400 children, and Palestinian armed groups have killed some 800 Israelis, including 100 children. Tens of thousands have been injured, many maimed for life.

"The vast majority of those killed and injured on both sides have been unarmed civilians and bystanders. Both sides have knowingly targeted civilians and shown utter disregard for the most basic principles of human rights and humanitarian law", said Amnesty International.

While claiming that it seeks to avoid harming the Palestinian population the Israeli army tanks and aircraft continue to shell densely populated Palestinian refugee camps and residential areas, knowing that such reckless fire will cause heavy civilian casualties.

Palestinian armed groups, for their part, openly proclaim their determination to kill Israeli civilians. Suicide bombings and other attacks on buses and other public places carried out by Palestinian groups, including the armed wing of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, deliberately aim to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible.

The unlawful killings on both sides must stop and those responsible for such crimes must be brought to justice.

(snipped the rest)

[Violet_Crumble]

1. Spot on...

I couldn't agree more with what AI say about the killing of civilians in this conflict. Thanks for posting that, Resistance...


Violet...

[Muddleoftheroad]

2. Some of this is predictable crap

It faults Israel for going after Hamas and others in the refugee camps. It doesn't fault them for hiding among the civilian population or credit Israel with going out of its way to limit collateral damage.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. Try reading what it said...

AI criticises Israel for knowingly killing Palestinian civilians, oops I mean 'collateral damage'....

Violet...

[Muddleoftheroad]

4. I was criticizing mostly

for what it didn't say.

[Violet_Crumble]

5. Damn, they didn't try to justify the killing of civilians!

How dare they!!

Violet...

[Muddleoftheroad]

6. No they justified the actions of terror

Terrorists hang out in heavily populated areas to ensure that they won't be killed or if they do, a lot of civilians go with them. If a criminal gang hangs out in an apartment complex in America, we don't blame the police when civilians get caught in the crossfire.

In the PA areas, those same civilians know those criminals are there, yet do nothing.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. No they don't...

I'll say it again. Try reading what Amnesty International has to say. They do NOT justify the actions of terrorists and in fact condemn them. What you want them to do is to justify the killing of civilians in the name of fighting against 'terror' and yr belief that anything goes when it comes to doing so. Thankfully you won't find AI sinking to such a level because they actually do give a shit about civilians caught up in conflicts...

Ah, so if civilians are aware that someone the IDF accuses of being a terrorist is in the West Bank or Gaza, that's a justification for killing the civilians??

Violet...

[bemildred]

8. "If you are not with us, you are against us"

I think is the way it goes. There is no position such as
"both of you groups of assholes leave me alone" allowed.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Yeah...

That sounds about right to me. It never ceases to amaze me that people attack AI for not putting things in the particular highly biased and slanted light that the person wants them to, or for daring to condemn the practices of both sides in a conflict...


Violet...

[Muddleoftheroad]

11. Oh come on

The terror groups deliberately locate in a way to ensure maximum civilian body count and you give them no blame? AI gives them no blame? That's crap. That, by design, means Israel can't ever go after terrorists.

Do you honestly think that the Palestinian people don't know where Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide out and what they do in their spare time? Do you think they are that stupid?

[Violet_Crumble]

16. Read what AI has to say about the conflict...

And try and attempt to answer the question you were asked. Do you think the killing of civilians is justified because they supposedly know that someone the IDF alleges is a terrorist lives in the Occupied Territories...


Violet...

[bemildred]

19. Let's see if we can clarify:

You are saying that if some terrorists are hiding in an
apartment block in the "disputed lands", then it is OK to
send a couple missiles or bombs into the apartment block in
the high probability that some women and children will be killed
if one also has some prospect of nailing the terrorists?

And the fact that the children don't have any knowledge whatsoever
as to the conflict or the nature of the terrorists does not matter,
they are still culpable for not turning them in? It's still
justified to kill those children?

Or what?

[MariMayans]

9. The IDF really does use human shields

I think you are projecting with these fantasies about your "terrorists".

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. What fantasies, specifically?

nt

[MariMayans]

14. The fancifal idea..

That these people live in their homes (you know the ones they are battling closures and demolitions to stay in) in some malicious attempt to try and kill the people around them who become marked for death because they don't rat them out and send them to be tortured in some dank Shin Bet hellhole.

[Jackie97]

18. Uh, yes we do blame them (edited).

"If a criminal gang hangs out in an apartment complex in America, we don't blame the police when civilians get caught in the crossfire."

Police do get criticized for this stuff all of the time, and so does the government.

And no Muddle, nobody here (including AI) is justifying the killings of Israeli civilians. The only ones justifying the killings of civilians in this thread are people like you, who keep justifying the killings done by IDF.

[Jackie97]

17. Even if Israel is trying to stop civilian deaths....

They're still doing a bad job of it. They're still intentionally bombing places knowing it's got many civilians in it. Those are still human rights violations.

AI covers human rights violations, not piss poor attempts to stop them.

[Jackie97]

15. Damn it, Violet!

How dare you consider Palestinian civilians to be more than collateral damage? Only Israelis are civilians. Don't forget it! LOL.

[Jackie97]

13. At least the Palestinian attackers admit to targeting civilians.

"While claiming that it seeks to avoid harming the Palestinian population the Israeli army tanks and aircraft continue to shell densely populated Palestinian refugee camps and residential areas, knowing that such reckless fire will cause heavy civilian casualties.

Palestinian armed groups, for their part, openly proclaim their determination to kill Israeli civilians. Suicide bombings and other attacks on buses and other public places carried out by Palestinian groups, including the armed wing of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, deliberately aim to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible."

See the difference and the similarity? Both sides are intentionally bombing civilians. It's just that one side admits to what they're doing, and the other sides does not. BS must be fought where it's at.