Peace Prize for Hanan Ashrawi

[sushi]

You can also read about it here:

<http://www.ajn.com.au/pages/current-paper/national-01.html>

[Darranar]

1. Thanks for the link...

This is a very interesting article. Is there any basis for the claims against Ashrawi?

[sushi]

2. That's all I have

for now. There will be more. I've always thought of Dr Ashrawi as a thinking, measured person.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. Did you see her on Foreign Correspondent?

It was either last week or the week before and she was really impressive. I don't understand why anyone would be opposed to her receiving a peace price given her stance on things...


p.s. Bob Carr for PM! ;)

[sushi]

5. No, I didn't

watch "Foreign Correspondent," but I agree, she has impressed me too. When listening to her so many times in the past I can't remember ever thinking 'that's nonsense.' The Palestinians should be very proud of her.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. Apparently she's an 'old style propagandist'...

That's the only thing I could find when I searched to explain why there was pressure not to award her the prize...

However, Jeremy Jones, president of the executive council of Australian Jewry, said that Dr Ashrawi had consistently opposed peace. "Every decent person, including Palestinians, wants a peaceful and just resolution and there are people we look to for change and reconciliation. Hanan Ashrawi is nowhere on that list. She is an old style propagandist."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/08/1060145866334.html

Of course this guy doesn't try to explain how she's opposed peace or what makes her an old style propagandist...


Violet...

[sushi]

9. Of course he doesn't explain...

How could he, and I wonder what he means by "old style propagandist." And who is to judge a resolution to be "peaceful and just?" Only Israel?

Good link. Now all the information is here.

[sushi]

6. Found link

for the interview.

<http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/stories/s947788.htm>

[IndianaGreen]

8. They hate her because she puts a human face on the Palestinians

Gawd forbid that Americans ever see Palestinians as human beings with legitimate grievances and claims on the so-called "Holy Land."

Racism and religious zealotry is what drives the Middle East conflict, on both sides!

[sushi]

10. I think

the Israeli extremists would like the world to see the Palestinians as backward, stupid people, who don't deserve equality. I understand some even call them dogs. Well, I'm afraid the world doesn't! And there are backward, stupid people EVERYWHERE.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sushi]

12. I'm Sushi

Rini and I are on opposing sides.

[Equinox]

15. I think he was calling rini out and wasn't intended for you.

[sushi]

17. Oh, I was wondering about it

Silly me. In that case I hope Rini reads this.

[Equinox]

22. LOL...I do too!

[Resistance]

25. that's exactly correct

thanks for clearing up the confusion, Equinox

[rini]

28. Honey (oops sorry)

Thanks for the complement. However, I couldn't care less. After Arafat got the peace prize IMO they became ridiculous. So go for it. I have more important issues to deal with, i.e. fire ants in the yard.

[Lithos]

3. Thanks for the link!

:)

[cantwealljustgetalong]

13. so many peace prizes...

so little peace...

[sushi]

14. I like your name

That's been my question for a long time. People shouldn't have to spend so much of their lives fighting.
I've been wondering how it feels like to be living in Israel. I've been asking myself would I agree with a leadership that seems to be forever fighting everybody. I know I wouldn't want to live behind a wall.

[Equinox]

16. True...

And I also wouldn't want what's happening to the Palestinians to be done in my name.

On Edit: But it is, I realized once again that the 4 billion Israel receives from the US is part of my tax dollars.

:shrug:

[sushi]

18. It's very frustrating

to be powerless. So many obviously wrong decisions are being made, and there's nothing we can do.

[Equinox]

19. You feel like that too?

I drenched I've been pissing in the wind for so long.

On topic: I like Ashwari. I would hope that one day she would be PA President or PM. She's a very good woman.

[sushi]

20. I'm almost certain

Hanan Ashrawi would be included in the government of a Palestinian state. It would be silly if the fact that she's a Christian makes her unacceptable to the Muslim majority. I don't know what percentage of the Palestinians are Christians.

[Equinox]

21. I don't either...

but I would venture a guess that those outside the idealogical grasp of Islamic Jihad or Hamas couldn't give a shit either way. I'm talking everyday normal Christian and Muslim Palestinians. I could be wrong but she's highly regarded with the Palestinians, again, excluding IJ and Hamas.

[sushi]

23. Hanan Ashrawi hits back

"Dr Ashrawi said that far from rejecting peace, she had served as a negotiator in the run-up to the Madrid and Oslo agreements, which led to the Palestinians accepting the two-state solution and Israel's right to exist.

She said she still supported the road map as published, although she deplored efforts to alter it and the failure to implement it."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/22/1066631507555.html

---

The Jewish lobby has campaigned against Dr Hanan Ashrawi receiving the Sydney Peace Prize, but she will be receiving it early next month.

[Darranar]

24. What jewish lobby?

[sushi]

26. I don't know how big

the Jewish community is in Australia, but it must be influential enough for the Lord Mayor of Sydney to pull out of the event (presentation of the Sydney Peace Prize to Hanan Ashrawi) because her husband is running for office - he wants the seat of Wentworth where a lot of Jews live! The Jews in Australia don't want the Peace Prize to go to Dr Ashrawi.

I read in "The Australian" of 10/24 - "Vote on Ashrawi award 'not split,' by Louise Perry and Megan Saunders (can't find a link) that the Australian Jewish News had reported that the six member panel was divided on the nomination. But the director of the Sydney Peace Foundation, Professor Stuart Rees, said that the vote was unanimous. "It's a complete fabrication - that's a polite way of putting it."

According to the report another source claimed Professor Rees had tried to put Dr Ashrawi up for nomination for the past two years, repeatedly being voted down by other board members. Professor Reed denied the claims. "That is complete nonsense. Completely false. Scurrilous," he said. "It is all a complete fabrication and they (the Jewish lobby) keep doing this. They are one of the most powerful lobbies in the world." "To say that I am a Palestinian apologist is absolute nonsense."

The report also said that former Jewish Board of Deputies president Peter Wertheime expressed concern at the amount of information about Dr Ashrawi that was given to the board before the vote.

[Darranar]

27. It isn't the Jewish Lobby...

it's the pro-Israel lobby.

By calling it the Jewish Lobby, you're implying, whether or not you mean to, that all Jews support it and endorse it.

[sushi]

29. I posted, exaxtly, what

was in the paper.

[Violet_Crumble]

36. It's what they call themselves too...

I understand that Darranar is pointing out that they're not lobbying on behalf of Jews, who obviously have a wide range of opinions on issues regarding the I/P conflict, and they should be called something else, but these groups themselves think they are and call themselves Jewish lobby groups...

From AIJAC

"Through research, commentary, analysis and lobbying, AIJAC represents the interests of the Australian Jewish community to government, media and other community groups and organisations."


http://www.aijac.org.au/main-pages/about.html

Their profile of Ashrawi is interesting reading. I didn't know that resistance was a preferred Palestinian term for terrorism. There ya go ;)

http://www.aijac.org.au/resources/ashrawi_profile.html

Violet...

[Darranar]

38. They make that claim...

for the same reason that Israel emphasizes that it is a Jewish state - to label those who criticize it as anti-semitic.

What they're saying (about how they represent Jews) is a load of junk, and it's sad that some progressives with rational views on the conflict as a whole seem to beleive it.

[Violet_Crumble]

45. The problem with some lobby groups...

..is exactly what you pointed out. While they claim to represent a group of people, they don't at all. I've seen women's lobby groups try to pressure the government to refuse to issue a visa to Eminem based on his lyrics about women and their belief that people shouldn't be able to go and watch him sing them. Like hell they were representing my views or that of other women who are opposed to censorship when they did that...

I think lobby groups that actually do accurately represent a group of people would be ones like the farming lobby groups and industry groups etc, but I don't feel the same about Jewish or women's lobby groups...

Violet...

[Darranar]

46. My view...

An organization/union/association/whatever represents its members and donators. Everyone else is not represented by them, unless they make it clear that they support that organization.

[sushi]

39. Yes, I understand

what Darranar said. If you say "Jewish Lobby," it does sound as if all Jews agree with it, but I just posted what I read. Everybody knows there is usually a wide range of opinions regarding everything.

I agree with Hanan Ashrawi that the real problem is occupation. Put an end to the occupation, let the Palestinians have a state that is acceptable to them, and the suicide bombings should stop, must stop.

[sushi]

40. Btw

thanks for posting the links. VERY interesting!

[Violet_Crumble]

44. I'm still reading some of what I found there...

But check out the petition if you get a chance. It was hilarious, what with the comments where she became a he and was called a terrorist, etc...

Violet...

[ForestsBeatBushes]

41. Here's something from part of the Jewish community in Australia:

THE PRIZE OF PEACE


<snip>

It is true that Ashwari is a moderate within Palestinian circles. She claims that she is not in sympathy with terrorist homicide bombings or with Arafat’s form of governance. But though she may be out of sympathy with these methods, she is in sympathy with what she sees as the frustrations that lead the terrorists to these acts of violence and murder, and, of course, she is eager to see the establishment of an independent Palestinian State. Indeed, there are many within Israel itself who now support a two-State solution to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. They seek an end to violence through a political contract between two States. That is what Hanan Ashwari would like to see happen, but she hasn’t separated or distanced herself entirely from the Palestinian Authority. She is still part of that establishment of violent resistance.

<snip>

There is, further, an important spiritual point here beneath the politics of the situation, and this is the point that Torah directs us towards in the famous words tzedek tzedek tirdof, “Justice, justice shall you pursue”. The commentators traditional and modern ask, Why is the word tzedek repeated in this text? One of the reasons commonly given is that Torah stresses that it is justice that we are bound to seek. Justice is not a natural goal for us human beings; in nature vengeance overrides justice. But according to Torah justice is what we must seek.


There are, however, other explanations to the repetition of the word justice, and here is one of them. It is not only the end result of our pursuit that matters, it is also the manner in which we pursue it. The manner of seeking justice must also be just, true and upright. Thus b’tzedek tzedek tirdof, “You shall pursue justice justly”. True justice, pursued justly, leads to the kind of peace that benefits both parties. In such a place the well-being and sense of bitachon, of security, would be distributed equally between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I call this a spiritual outlook because it is at the very heart of what the Torah teaches us.

<snip>

If this is the justice that Ashwari has been seeking, if she has sought justice for both Israelis and Palestinians, then she deserves the Sydney Peace Prize and gezuntahet, good luck to her! But if this is not the peace that she has been seeking, how can her words of peace ever be fulfilled? As long as the Israelis are seen and portrayed simply as being objects of hatred for Palestinian children, how can there be peace? And for our part as Jews, as long as we see Palestinians simply as objects of hatred and fear, then how can there be peace? Let the Sydney Peace Prize be awarded to that person who overcomes their own inclination to prejudice, hatred and distrust, and so comes to see their enemy as a potential friend. That person truly deserves a prize of peace.


http://www.upj.org.au/prizeofpeace.htm

[Darranar]

42. LOL...

so only Israelis are entitled to self-defense?

Only Israelis are entitled to giving rational reasons for atrocities (and there are rational reasons for atrocities)?

[Violet_Crumble]

43. She does deserve the Peace Prize...

I've yet to see any evidence of prejudice, hatred and distrust on her part....

Violet...

[sushi]

30. "Handing a club to anti-Semites"

"As today's column will provoke accusations of anti-Semitism, let me begin with a few words in my defence....

I've had dealings with hundreds of the most prominent people in public life....But I've met few I admire as much as Ashrawi. Now there are attempts to deny her the Australian Peace Prize."

(Phillip Adams)


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,7686255,00.html

[sushi]

31. Here is a comment

to Philip Adam's article (previous post). By a Bob Ellis. If it's the same Bob Ellis he is a journalist and author.

"Is it anti-Semitic to say it is wrong to bulldoze apartment blocks and leave tenants nowhere to live? Then I swear on the head of my grandmother Rachel Larkman that I am anti-Semitic too. Is it anti-Semitic to say that killing 3000 unarmed Palestinians in three years is wrong and a crime against humanity? Then I swear by the blood of my ancestors all the way back to Abraham that I am anti-Semitic too. Is it anti-Semitic to say that threatening to "remove" a democratically elected head of state is wrong and a breach of international law? Then I too am anti-Semitic, and I await my punishment. By helicopter gunship perhaps."

[Violet_Crumble]

35. Bob Carr said some similar stuff on Thursday...

And while I've never been much of a fan of his, I do admire him for saying that he won't be pressured into not presenting the award. While I'm still unaware of what the specific accusations against Ashrawi are, he did point out that some of the loudest critics of her being awarded the prize seriously suggested that Abu Mazen should get it instead. Carr asked why they'd have a problem with Ashrawi getting the prize while suggesting that someone who wrote a thesis that was Holocaust denial get it instead...

Violet...

[sushi]

37. Abu Mazen wrote

a thesis that was Holocaust denial? That is news to me! This is the man with whom Israel's PM wanted to deal. Very strange. And why should he (Abu Mazen) be considered for a peace prize. He didn't last long, hasn't done much. He resigned, probably because he couldn't take the pressure. Hanan Ashrawi has been under pressure for many years. Women are definitely stronger than men!!!

I also don't know what the specific accusations against Hanan Ashrawi are, but I'm glad to read a Mr Einfeld said that trying to force Bob Carr to withdraw (from presenting the prize) was "unworthy of Jews and supporters of Israel."

That's right. Bob Carr presents the prize, Hanan Ashrawi makes her acceptance speech, and life goes on. Who knows, some other institution will soon give a peace prize to one from the opposing side. Then everybody can be happy.

[Violet_Crumble]

47. Apparently so...

I've never read it, but what Bob Carr said was that it apparently seriously downplayed the number of deaths in the Holocaust, and if that's true and those numbers were in the way low range and not the range credible historians use when they're discussing the Holocaust, then it would be Holocaust denial. What Bob Carr said was that quite a few of the critics who'd contacted him personally had seriously suggested Abu Mazen as an alternate for the prize so he was surprised at the 'logic' used that would discredit Hanan Ashwari and think that Abu Mazen was suitable....

Gotta agree with you there. Women, especially politicians, are definately stronger than men and don't tend to buckle under pressure...

Violet...

[Darranar]

48. There are plenty of stubborn men and women...

but I doubt any of them could have survived much longer in Abbas's position.

And I don't think it's something that's determined by gender, either, but that's not the point.

[sushi]

50. Abu Mazen

did his best for the short time he was PM, but he wasn't there long enough and hasn't done enough to deserve a peace prize. I think Israel resents, and maybe envy a little(?), the Palestinians having such an able, female, spokesperson like Hanan Ashrawi.

It is quite unusual for a poor, male-dominated, overwhelmingly Muslim people to have a female, Christian, feminist for a spokesperson.
I read that in 1988 the ABC's Nightline "aired a three-hour discussion which pitted four Palestinians against four Israelis. Ashrawi stole the show, and stripped away some of the terrorist image of the Palestinian struggle for a homeland...." And at the peace conference in Madrid, she "went head to head with Benjamin Netanyahu."

The decision by the Sydney Peace Foundation to award her their Peace Prize was backed by Archbishop Desmond Tutu, a former recipient of the award. He said " No one could be more deserving of this prestigious award. Against daunting odds she has remained committed to finding a peaceful solution to what seems an intractable problem."

[sushi]

49. I just read

that Abu Mazen in a thesis argued that there weren't six million Jews killed during the WWII, that the number is only a few hundred thousand.

About women being stronger than men. I remember reading about a Saudi Arabian executioner who also said it. I have the clipping somewhere. He has been doing it for many years, cutting the heads of male and female criminals, in the square. He said the men crumble, the women are very strong.

Apparently up until the very last moment the family of the victim can forgive the criminal. He remembers the time when just as he was about to bring down the sword on the woman's neck the execution was cancelled because the victims's family forgave her, so they walked her off the square. Then they were told it was a mistake, so they walked her back to be executed. Then they got word the family changed its mind and she was forgiven. All through this the woman didn't faint. He said a man would have collapsed long before.

[sushi]

32. This quarrel over a peace prize

is getting ridiculous. It's childish, like "you gave her a toy, I want one too!"

An opposition MP, Laurie Ferguson, has said that "The pro-Israel lobby has done itself 'profound damage' by strongly opposing the choice of Palestinian advocate Hanan Ashrawi for the Sydney Peace Prize." He described Dr Ashrawi as an "independent maverick," and said it was unrealistic to suggest that "unless a Palestinian totally surrenders then they are by imputation terrorist aligned."

Kathryn Greiner, a Sydney councillor and one of the six-member selection panel, also defended the selection of Dr Ashrawi. She said the prize had been 'hijacked' by a "war of self interest," and that she was "depressed" by the Jewish community's "furious lobbying" to have the prize withdrawn and its attempts to prevent Mr Carr from presenting the award.

"I don't deny the right for others to disagree and to engage in debate about the disagreement, but this has gone beyond just the debate about disagreement. This has been ferocious lobbying..."

The New South Wales Premier, Bob Carr, is resisting pressure from the local Jewish community and has vowed to present the prize to Dr Ashrawi.

---

I look forward to reading Hanan Ashrawi's acceptance speech. I hope it's good. I'm sure it will be, because she's a good speaker.

[methinks2]

33. I have watched

Ms. Ashrawi on more than one informational show , plus I've read some of her speeches. She is always articulate and calm, even when appearing on Faux news shows. And she can hold her own with the rudest and most opinionated jerks. I admire her courage.

[sushi]

34. I have too, and agree

Dr Ashrawi is an articulate and courageous, woman. And assertive and strong. Too many women are timid, especially in the Muslim world. That will change. The Palestinians should be very proud of Hanan Ashrawi.

Very often I see people in interviews say a lot but don't answer the questions! Hanan Ashrawi does, and she's very "to the point."

It's usually men who get these fancy prizes, so I'm glad Hanan Ashrawi is getting one now. I hope she writes a VERY good acceptance speech. It has to be, with so many critics around!