‘Things were better when Israel ruled Gaza’

[oberliner]

“I’m afraid to say this out loud, they may execute me for it, but there are a lot of people, including myself, who think it would be better if Israel came back here. Things would be much better than they are now,” said Samara (alias), a graduate of the Islamic University living in the Gaza Strip.

According to Samara, who lives nearby one of the Fatah strongholds taken over by Hamas in recent days, fear reigns in Gaza’s streets, and apart from gunmen and military officials, no one leaves their homes.

“The children are afraid all the time,” Samara says. “My nephews ask, ‘Why are the Israelis shooting at us?’, and we tell them it’s Palestinians. Then they ask, ‘Why are Palestinians shooting at us?’, and I have no answer for them.

“We have no food at home. We’ve been living on soups and canned food for days. There is no electricity or continuous water supply, let alone medicine or essential hygiene products,” she explained.

<snip>

“I hide in the house all day long, but even that might not be enough. Our neighbor was shot while he was inside. Men with black masks, weapons, and bags are walking around on the streets and I’m afraid to leave. They could shoot me – even if I’m not what they are looking for,” Samara said.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3413446,00.html

[Jim Sagle]

1. Fuckin' A.

[ShortnFiery]

2. Just like "things are worse" as we continue to OCCUPY Iraq,

Israel not allowing the Palestinians RULE over their own destiny - with THEIR LAND - is not making things better. The Palestinian people would rather die free than live under occupation. Because they live in poverty with little to lose, Israel will NOT EVER be able to fully conquer them. It's way way way beyond time for a thoughtful two state solution. :(

Occupations. Don't. Work. :shrug:

[Mojambo]

3. That was my first thought as well

Sounds just like what the Iraqis say about wanting Saddam back.

I guess when you're picking which boot you want to be under, these distinctions matter.

[ShortnFiery]

4. The tragedy is that BOTH sides are pitting factions against each other ...

while the average Palestinian only wishes for security, shelter and food for their family.

Why can't we try our BEST to "do right by the people" and stop feeding the flames of hatred with such asinine *take no prisoners* type leadership (both sides)?

[sellitman]

6. If it's way past time for a 2 State solution what do you propose?

:shrug:

[ShortnFiery]

7. There's no easy way forward, but the KILLING must end lest we destroy any shred of our humanity. n/t

[pelsar]

10. seems the Palestinians disagree with you....

The Palestinian people would rather die free than live under occupation.

read the o/p

“I’m afraid to say this out loud, they may execute me for it, but there are a lot of people, including myself, who think it would be better if Israel came back here



(i've come across that a couple times...the Palestinians say it was better under israeli occupation and the "pro palestenian" posters here seem not just to ignore them, but seem to "know better" what the Palestinians need...reminds me of the colonialist attitude.

either that or the palestenian being quoted is some kind of liar.

[Solo_in_MD]

11. I suggest that the best solution at this point is to incorporate Gaza and the West Bank into Israel

with the residents there being given full standing as citizens. Think of the possibilities:
- Better legal, medical, and social situation than any surrounding country
- More freedoms
- Decent infrastructure
- Standing to reclaim lost land.

Its not as crazy as it sounds.

The Arab/Muslim world has given up on Gaza. Egypt refused to reclaim it during the land for peace deal, and does little or nothing to support it. Same with Jordan and the West Bank. Formally being part of Israel would really be the best overall solution.

[msmcghee]

12. Yes, but for that to happen, several thousand . .

. . heavily armed militants currently pugged into Arab oil cash flows - would have to say, "Yeah that makes a lot of sense and would be good for the Palestinian people - let's put down our weapons and learn to love the Star of David."

I think there have always been creative avenues open for peace in this conflict - for anyone who actually wants peace. The reason they have been consistently rejected - and those who propose them sometimes killed - has not been because anyone other than the Palestinians with the guns were not open to those solutions.

Which is the exact same problem that has plagued the conflict since the 1930's - an honor/shame culture that glorifies death and vengeance as a path to wealth and respect within the culture - as over some nebulous peace with one's avowed enemies, which is seen as a depraved weakness, even unmanly. All that's changed is the increased availability of cash from Arab oil states - and more modern weapons from the worldwide weapons market.

Then there's the question of Israel even being open to such a thing - and the political possibility of Jews becoming a minority in a country that was created as a refuge for Jews in a still hostile world - that would eventually contain a majority of those who have held the destruction of Israel and the Jews who live there as their greatest hope for sixty years.

Added on edit: I don't mean to be dismissive of your idea. I think it's very creative. I just don't see how it gets past the core problem of a very sick Palestinian culture that now seems to get nourishment from even the prospect of the violent death of Jews - as much as it now feeds on the violent death its own. I know that only a minority of Palestinians are armed militants - but it seems to me that the majority of Palestinians support the cultural values that the fighters exemplify. Do you think that's incorrect?

[Solo_in_MD]

14. The blood feud culture is clearly a problem in the middle east

The 14th century outlook that goes with Islam is not helping either. The Palestinians are clearly an unloved people. They have been used and abused by just about everyone, including their own leadership, which stole heavily from them.

[MADem]

5. So, what's gonna happen, here? Will Hamas run Gaza, and Fatah the WB?

It's just not a good situation right now. Pity. The average Palestinian has seen so MUCH shit, and it looks like they're in for even more of it.

[DBoon]

8. "Things were better when the Brits ruled Rhodesia"

but they don't

And wishing it won't make it come back

[LeftishBrit]

13. Good point (re both countries)

Somehow solutions must be found based on the future rather than the past. Sadly, it's easier said than done.

[pelsar]

9. now what?

should israel leave the westbank?.....will that too follow the route of Rhodesia (Zimbabwa-which can no longer even feed its people) and Gaza?

Whats a "progressive" to do?

whats more important to the progressive: Palestinian Independence if it comes with a local dictatorship, theocratic laws and additional misery or the needs and wishes of the Palestinians who live there? (that translates into human right violations)

whats more important to citizen palestine?....personal security, freedom of speech (and the occupation) or being ruled by hamas, one of their own with their own set of theocratic rules and punishments?
_________

I've been told by several that what happens after the occupation is none of anyones business, its an internal Palestinian matter. I find that attitude rather hypocritical. If there is a concern for human rights etc i always understood it to be a universal concern. When one calls for those who violate it should be brought forth to court, I always understood it to mean who ever did the violating.

when it comes to the I/P conflict it appears not to be true. Hamas a well organized, group with a a hierarchal command structure systematically violated multiple "human rights" as they took over gaza. Should they not be called before the court in Hague?....or are the killings that they did simply "none of any progressives business?"