B'Tselem to Hamas, Fatah: Put war crimes suspects on trial

[pelsar]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/872276.html
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so far so good...i believe they are the only organization to call for this (that i've read)

Human rights organization B'Tselem issued a statement Monday calling on Hamas leaders in the Gaza Strip to investigate claims its members committed war crimes against Fatah supporters, and put the suspects on trial.

I'm sure if hamas reads this they might die of laughing..but then I almost did too when i read the final paragraph:

B'Tselem also reminded the Israeli government that it "bears overarching responsibility for the human rights of all people in the West Bank, including for acts committed by agencies operating with Israel's agreement, including the Palestinian Authority."

so israel is responsable for the crimes committed by Hamas and Fatah in the westbank?

[Kagemusha]

1. With all due respect, the plain reading of international human rights law is that

the occupying power bears overarching responsibility for ENFORCING human rights and punishing violations thereof, whether by its own forces or forces co-operating with it.

Therefore, what you wrote as "so Israel is responsible for the crimes" should be corrected and written as, "Israel is responsible for punishing the crimes". Which would then be actually true.

Edit: And before you ask, yes, I'm personally well aware that Israel withdrew ground troops temporarily. I'm clarifying what the human rights group said, not trying to argue on its behalf for a position that probably would strike most people as complicated. I'm sticking to the part where you read it as slamming blame for crimes of non-Israelis on Israel because that's not what it said.

[AviBaruch]

2. But the rub is

when Israel does go to punish said criminals, the world condemns them.

[Kagemusha]

3. Well to be quite honest I find their position to be a little odd myself.

The whole idea that Israel is going to go out and punish Hamas people for throwing Fatah people out of windows etc. Yeah, in a perfect world - which the Gaza Strip emphatically is NOT - that's what would happen. But Israel has no police in Gaza, or troops (yet - I hear that's pending under the old-is-new-again defense minister Barak), with which to enforce such quaint ideals.

I'm inclined to cut Israel some slack here. A lot, even. And it's not as if the Fatah people were saints either.

[AviBaruch]

4. Israel should leave Gaza alone

and try to work with Abbas to improve conditions in the West Bank.

[Kagemusha]

7. That may well be best.

I just have no faith Israel will do much on that score.

[pelsar]

5. i was just looking at it from a practical point of view....

the idea of israel capturing and punishing a fatah security personal for killing a hamas person is rather absurd. But in fact Israel is not responsable for all areas of the westbank...Areas A is the responsability of the PA and that includes security.

[Kagemusha]

6. Yeah, practicalities are definitely on your side of this.

This rights group seems to be taking a deliberately impractical, broad view of this occupied territory thing that completely ignores the Oslo accords and defaults to older laws of war that Israel has never really followed in these cases anyway. As you might retort, neither have the Palestinians. So it's pie in the sky stuff.