Israeli gunships attack Gaza

[Darranar]

Israel has launched two helicopter attacks on the homes of resistance fighters in the Gaza Strip.

Helicopter gunships fired several missiles at the al-Buraij refugee camp shortly after 1am local time (23:00 GMT) on Sunday.

The electricity supply in the refugee camp was cut following at least two explosions.

Witnesses said the target was the house of an Islamic Jihad activist, which was empty at the time. Israeli public radio said the target was an arms and explosives dump.

Al Jazeera

[Lefty48197]

1. Resistance fighters?

What are they resisiting? Innocent women and children eating in pizza restaurants and riding buses?

[Darranar]

2. Bad description, I know...

I noticed that too. This did get a good nutshell of what happened in the aftermath of the bombing, though. That's why I posted the thread.

[Muddleoftheroad]

3. Al Jazerra

In their case, they are resisting journalism.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. Of course! It's not the mainstream US media!

Now if only they could be more conservative like the good ol' US media, no-one would feel the need to pop in and slag them off without any evidence to back up their fanciful claims about journalistic integrity ;)

Violet...

[Darranar]

5. It is true, though...

that the term "resistance" in regard to terrorism is very misleading.

[Violet_Crumble]

6. That's true...

But the same sort of thing happens in the US media. No-one wants to refer to their 'side' as anything but 'freedom fighters' and paint them in the most glowing light possible....


Just checking here, but do you think Palestinian militants who target the IDF and don't target Israeli civilians inside Israel are resistance fighters or terrorists?


Violet...

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. I'll take that one

They would be resistance fighters if they didn't target civilians -- not civilians just in Israel, but civilians in general.

[Violet_Crumble]

8. But...

I would have accepted that answer from Darranar, because it's basically my view (except I'm torn on the issue of settlers in those illegal outposts and security personnel who aren't part of the IDF), but yr views aren't the same as Darranar's because you do support the targetting of Palestinian civilians, whereas he opposes the targetting of civilians in general....


Violet...

[Muddleoftheroad]

9. Nope not even close

I NEVER support the deliberate targeting of civilians and I take great exception at you saying I do.

But Palestinian terrorists have placed themselves IN civilian centers. That means, unless the Palestinians root out the terrorists themselves, Israel has no choice but to go after them in populated areas.

Civilians get killed in war zones and it has happened throughout history. That is a horrible fact. When people DELIBERATELY target them, that is a crime.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Yes, it was...

You supported the IDF killing innocent civilians when it dropped a bomb on an apartment building. Doing something like that and then using the excuse it wasn't a deliberate targetting doesn't work, because the intention was to kill civilians as soon as they decided to drop the bomb on a building that they knew contained civilians...


All you do is here is say you don't support it and then explain why it's okay for Israel to intentionally kill civilians. Unless you've changed yr mind and now decided that the IDF are committing crimes?

Violet...

[Darranar]

12. The Israeli extra-judicial assasinations...

are not a one-sided thing. Pragmatically, they don't work and are rather useless in the long term. Morally, though, the question becomes more complex: Is it okay to kill a murdering thug if you'll get a few civilians dead or wounded in the mean time? The way Israel does it - without attempts, it appears, to minimize civilian casualties - seems immoral to me, like the endless bombing raids on Saddam's palaces in Baghdad.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. In the case I was talking about...

The IDF intentionally killed civilians. I just find it incredibly hypocritical for someone to say they oppose targetting civilians when they make so many exceptions when it comes to Palestinian civilians....


Violet...

[Darranar]

14. Okay...

I understood that, but it's unfair to compare extra-judicial assasinations that kill civilians to suiicde bombings - because a guilty person was killed.

That doesn't mean that they're right, it just means that there's a difference that has to be acknowledged.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. I don't see the difference...

The IDF dropped a one-ton bomb on an apartment building knowing that there were civilians sleeping there, including babies and children. I don't see how those deaths are any less unjustifiable than civilians who are killed in suicide bombings. And then there was a more recent one where the IDF destroyed a car in busy traffic and then came back several minutes later when a crowd of civilians had gathered round and fired off another rocket...

I also have a problem with the IDF being judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to the 'guilty'. I'm sure some of the time they're right, but they've assasinated moderates in the past...

Violet...

[Darranar]

17. Look at it this way...

if nine innocents die and one combatant, it is more justifiable (not that it's justified) then nine innocents dying and NO combatants dead.

Those militants, when they are militants, are combatants and therefore legitimate targets.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. Yeah...

I do agree that combatants are legitimate targets.....


Violet...

[Darranar]

11. Resistance fighters...

certainly and unquestionably. It doesn't even matter if they belong to a terrorist organization; if they only target combatants, they're resistance fighters.

[Violet_Crumble]

16. Yeah, that's how I see it too...

n/t