Blast hits Israeli army checkpoint

[Aidoneus]

Blast hits Israeli army checkpoint
Thursday 09 October 2003

A Palestinian woman injured two Israeli soldiers after she exploded herself at a military checkpoint.

Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, a radical offshoot of Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat's mainstream Fatah group, claimed responsibility for the strike.

The explosion, which killed the bomber, took place on Thursday near the occupied West Bank city of Tulkaram, according to occupation military sources.

--snip--

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6F2580F9-FAF2-40B1-83CA-AD9F18D4ED6D.htm

Didn't see this posted as yet.. Later in the piece it tells of a 12yr old boy shot in Qalqilya, and Israeli occupation forces fired on and wounded near Nablus. Perhaps there will be excuses made for the former and condemnation of the latter as "terrorism" by someone.

[Fight_n_back]

1. A miltray target?

Wow, actually taking on people with weapons!

This is actually legitimate. Attacking a military target in the territories. I wonder of it was a mistake.

Maybe she was trying to slip into Israel to get to a wedding but the bomb accidentally went off at the checkpoint.

[stopthegop]

2. seems likely n/t

.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. I guess you didn't read the article

"According to radio reports, the attacker walked up to an office at an Israeli army base near the town where Palestinians apply for humanitarian permits to cross roadblocks and set off the explosion."
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6F2580F9-FAF2-40B1-83CA-AD9F18D4ED6D.htm

[dudeness]

3. lol..

you call bombing from jets or shooting from helicopters fair??

[bluesoul]

5. Let me explain to you dudeness

Apparently bombing from planes, shooting from tanks and weapons is far more moral and acceptable, even if kills more innocent people. It's the suicide attacks that are the only crimes..

[Darranar]

6. Of course!

They aren't morraly equivalent! Don't you know? One was done by israelis, and the other by Palestinians!

Palestinians = Bad

Israelis = Good

Quick exploration into the minds of a few Israel supporters...

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. War doesn't have to be fair

But if you target innocents, that's terror. If you target terrorists who hide in population centers, that is the fault of the terrorists, not the authorities shutting them down.

If a bystander is killed on an American streetcorner because of a gunbattle between a murderer and a police officer, it is not the fault of the police. Blame it on the murderer.

[bluesoul]

8. hmm

You haven't heard of IDF's target practicing have you? And if police know there are civilians among they won't go just shooting as they have SPECIFIC orders. Then they would kill all the hostages at every kidnapping incident. but they don't do that! So much for your comparison...

[Muddleoftheroad]

9. Maybe in your world

In every place I've lived, if you shoot at cops, they return fire. That goes for D.C. and Baltimore and small-town Virginia.

Perhaps if the terrorists were not hiding among the civilians, this would be easier to discuss. But they are, and it would be crazy of Israel to ignore them.

[Equinox]

10. Per International law and Geneva conventions....

it is the responsibility of the occupying power to ensure the safety of protected persons. Muddleoftheroad, your post is incorrect.

[Fight_n_back]

11. Magistrate has gone over this time and again

Combatants are not to take refuge in civilian buildings and in population centers.

[Darranar]

13. Well, he and I are agreed on that...

but he also has pointed out that the occupying power should still excersise caution to reduce harm to innocent civilians - something Israel has not always done.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. Such caution is exercised all the time

Otherwise, the Palestinian death toll would be one hell of a lot worse.

[Darranar]

15. I think 1,500+ non-combatants dead is pretty bad.

n/t

[drdon326]

16. LINK please.

.

[Darranar]

17. I'm using figures that have been posted here before...

by the Magistrate, I believe. It seems pretty accurate to me.

[drdon326]

18. You must have some proof....

of that statement.

[Darranar]

19. No, I don't have any proof...

Prove that israel exists.

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. In three years of warfare?

That clearly shows Israel is trying NOT to kill.

Every one here talks about how powerful Israel's army is, after all. It would be easy for them to lay waste to whole cities if they were really the monsters you claim.

But they don't and they aren't.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. Darranar's never claimed they're monsters...

[Darranar]

25. You're funny...

Especially because I've fanatically defended the IDF from illegitmate criticism before.

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. You said the figures were pretty bad

For three years of warfare, I disagree.

The folks here who hate Israel (didn't say YOU do) paint Israel as some military monster that kills with abandon. But three years of war with such small death toll is amazing. Even without nukes, Israel could sure as hell kill a lot more Palestinians if that was what it wanted.

It doesn't want that. It wants peace.

[Darranar]

27. No, Israel doesn't want genocide...

nor does Israel commit genocide. But peace? Not a just peace, that's for sure, especially in relation to this government.

You've said before that you want a real palestinian state, not bantustans like Netanyahu wants. Why do you think Sharon is so much better?

[Equinox]

29. Great counter Darranar....

Thanks.

:toast:

[Muddleoftheroad]

31. Peace

Peace can be accomplished only when you have a partner. One side can declare peace but it doesn't work without the other. Till that happens, I prefer Israel defend itself and Sharon seems to be doing that.

Ultimately, I appreciate you pointing out that I prefer a real Palestinian state, not one under partial Israeli control. However, as a real state, it will need to negotiate with Israel for transit, border crossings and the like.

[Darranar]

32. LOL...

What does building more settlements and enlarging those that already exist have to do with defending Israel? What does the peculiar path of the wall have to do with defending Israel? What does randomly bulldozing houses have to do with defending Israel? What does keeping the settlements in place have to do with defending Israel?

Not to mention the fact that the extra-judicial assasinations and the raids in the OT don't seem to help stop terrorism...

[Equinox]

28. Links....

According to an AFP count, a total of 3,399 people have been killed as a result of the intifada, including 2,560 Palestinians and 778 Israelis.

From:

Or it.

Edit: Fixed Link

[bluesoul]

30. hmm

Btselem. org the Israeli site has accounted 3.500 killed Palestinians and that is the data till May 2003 (not counting from May till today). And the number of civilians killed (till 2000!!) by their source is even higher then the one Agency France counts till today. So those numbers are a conservative estimate. The actual is quite higher..

[Equinox]

34. Thanks for the info and update...

:-)

[Gimel]

36. The ACTUAL

Of course you can read the article from Reliefweb and see that the number is for the Martyrs on the Palestinian side which:
The figures include Palestinians killed during Israeli army raids and those hit in "targeted killings" carried out by the military.
http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/0/1aefb71ae849221249256d820011d185?OpenDocument

Martyrs=suicide bombers and attackers of Israelis

Martyrs=militia members of Hamas and IJihad

[Violet_Crumble]

23. It is not...

Even the IDF would be forced to disagree with you on that one. Caution is not exercised all the time, and in fact the IDF have a policy where they use Palestinian civilians as cover when they're searching for those alleged terrorists....

Violet...

[dudeness]

22. I respect the magistates opinion immensly

..and i am only going on memory here..but what the magistrate says about this conflict would apply if BOTH sides of this conflict paid heed to governing conventions of warfare..as it is apparent neither side does ..then it is arguable that generally accepted conventions become null and void..perhaps rules of war were drawn up when each combantant had a sporting chance of victory, which is obviously not apparent in this case..

[Fight_n_back]

33. Sporting chance of victory

when one side is losing badly there is a very clear and historically proven method of getting out alive. It is called surrender.

[dudeness]

35. surrender..would you??

surely you jest..

[dudeness]

21. thank you bluesoul..

I needed to be straightened out on that particular point..

[tinnypriv]

12. 40% of Israeli casualties are in the OT

Obviously it should be 100%, but there you go.