Attack on Convoy Reflects Racist Ideology, Israeli Lawmaker says

[bemildred]

Starting to see the spin on this story.
Quickly too.
It's all one paragraph, so I won't excerpt but some bits.

"It symbolizes that there is a prevalent ideology that there is
no place for foreigners, Jews or Christians, in the Middle East,"

---

"It should be acknowledged is not just a conflict about
borders," Steinitz said of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Steinitz
said it was "most likely" that the explosives for the attack against
the Americans had been smuggled into Gaza through tunnels originating
in Egypt.He charged that Egypt was doing virtually nothing and turning
a blind eye" to the weapons smuggling ...

Crosswalk

[Jacobin]

1. what garbage

[IndianaGreen]

2. The pot calling the kettle black

Why is Israel in Gaza?

[forgethell]

8. to stamp out

terrorists

[IndianaGreen]

9. Israel is a terrorist state

It has held Palestinian land against the wishes of the world community. It is only the bought-and-paid 2-major parties that are to blame for enabling Israel's imperialistic ambitions and cruel occupation of lands that do not belong to her.

[forgethell]

12. Yeah, yeah, Right!!

The Arabs lost them in an aggressive war. Israel will give back what they don't need for security when they have somebody to make peace with. Until then, I'm a little low on sympathy and must save it for those I consider more deserving than the Palestinians. I Know they suffer terribly, but dang it, they bring a lot of it on themselves. When the Palestinians are ready to renounce terror, they have a chance for their own state. But it won't run "from the river to the sea".

[Aidoneus]

13. what "aggressive war"?

And when that is noted, who do you consider the 'aggressor', for what reasons?

As for the rest, land conquered in aggressive wars are not negotiable; the fullest extent of Israeli rights to the '67-occupied territories is to leave them immediately, everything else is self-granted "rights" and impromptu inventions.

[bluesoul]

14. Hit the nail

Amen to that Aidoneus!

[forgethell]

16. We'll jsut have to disagree.

n/t

[forgethell]

17. I consider the Arabs

to be the agressors. And will, as long as they have not given up their dream of destroying Israel.

[bluesoul]

18. Agressors

Who's the agressor on the occupied territories, illegal settlements and in Palestinian refugee camps? Martians?

[Aidoneus]

24. I assume you're talking '67

how "the Arabs" could possibly be called the aggressors in that war requires a really radical redefining of the term.

[Gimel]

25. all wars are aggressive

Some are fought in self-defense.

[Aidoneus]

10. just curious..

you say "terrorists"--what exactly do you mean by that? Words are often whatever people mean by them, meanings are not always the same. Does the 8yr old shot in Rafah for not being pleased with a bulldozer trashing his house count as a "terrorist"? Him being shot was no accident. Were the 100-or-so houses destroyed and the many more damaged "terrorist houses"? This sort of rhetoric really falls flat when apologists start making up "terrorist rules" on the fly.

Second, lets assume for a minute you're referring to the humanbombs in Israeli cities. This was a fact I learned here after just not noticing it for a while. I have a challenge for you, and I'm willing to wait a while (because I'll have to):--name the last humanbomber to hit somewhere within "Green Line" Israel to come from Gaza.

[forgethell]

15. What I mean by "terrorists"

is people that deliberately target civilians in a desire to inflict terror and despair on their opponents. No, the 8-year old boy does NOT qualify as a terrorist, unless he was, I don't know, shooting at Isralei troops or something. Even then, I guess he would qualify as a combatant, not a terrorist. Otherwise, he was an unfortunate accident, sorta like Rachael Corrie, I believe that was her name, that thought it was safe to sit in front of a bulldozer. It really is hard to feel much pain for people who insist on putting their kids on the line. I'm just sorry for the kids.

I am truly sorry when anyone gets killed. Terrorist rules are not made up on the "fly". The Israelis, the United States, and the Palestinians all know what is referred to as a terrorist. At least, what the Israelis refer to as a terrorist. they know what they are bring on themselves when they indulge in such activities.

As for your last question, I have one for you: why is it that no murdering suuicide bombers have come from GAza. Are they kinder and gentler there, or have the barriers Israel has set up been working?? Will the new "security fence" work, also?

[LevChernyi]

19. of course it's the wall

but if that's the case why isn't the wall going up on the Green Line in the West Bank the same way as in Gaza? Why are the Israeli's in Gaza at all if this all about security? It's all a pack of lies to justify expansionism and that it works so effectively on a gullible American audience makes me wince.

[forgethell]

20. Sorry

Nobody ever said that the Arabs were going to get back what they had. they lost, they pay. Fact of life. I won't debate the rights and wrong of it with you, but it's pretty generally worked out that way throughout history.

At any event, as long as terrorists keep murdering innocent Israeli women and children, Israel isn't going to care much about the final borders. Negotiations cannot takeplace at the same time as terrorism. It's been tried, and it doesn't seem to work.

[bluesoul]

21. hmm

We'll see about that. Since UN conventions, international law requires that from Israel they will be sooner or forced to do that. Maybe once the US foreign policy changes...hopefully

[LevChernyi]

23. You just said the Israeli's could end terrorism

all they have to do is build a wall.

But they won't which tells you Q.E.D. Israeli's don't give a damn about terrorism if it gets in the way of ruling the Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza. It's not a real concern, it's a diversion.

[Aidoneus]

22. it was no accident

please read this Haaretz segment--
--snip--
At the opening stage of the operation,
8-year-old Ibrahim Krinawi was killed. Ibrahim,
whose house was in the first row facing the
border, was the youngest of five children. His
father Ahmed said the family was in the house
when the operation began. They were going to
leave but the bulldozer got there before they
were able to do so. He said the bulldozer began
tearing down a wall of the house, and he and
his children went outside to stop it. At this
point, a single shot hit Ibrahim in the right
side of his chest and he collapsed. His father
called an ambulance. As Ibrahim's brother Ayad
told it, "at the beginning, he was conscious
and yelling that it was hurting him terribly
and for us to save him. Then he began to bleed
and he begged us to take the bullet out but we
couldn't do anything." The father said a
Palestinian ambulance stopped a few hundred
meters from the house but could not come any
closer. Finally, family members carried Ibrahim
to the ambulance. An hour later, he died at a
makeshift clinic.
--snip--

Accident?

Terrorist rules are not made up on the "fly".

Yes they are. People start mouthing off about people they don't like--just say that, it's far more honest and there's no silly rule book for me to memorize--, and ascribe anything that sounds good. I have yet to get a clear idea on what it actually means after all this time, except "not us" or "some dudes we want to kill" being the only consistant formulas applied, and I find those extremely tedious and irrelevant as a definition--the given definition by people like the FBI/etc is never applied with the slightest hint of fairness, so I'll toss that aside also.

The Israelis, the United States, and the Palestinians all know what is referred to as a terrorist. At least, what the Israelis refer to as a terrorist. they know what they are bring on themselves when they indulge in such activities.

Yeah, it means someone who isn't an Israeli or American, or anybody who can't afford the luxury of a decent PR firm to prepare the field. For one example, the US army/air force killed thousands and thousands of innocent people in Iraq and destroys thousands more lives--but that's not "terrorism", that's "liberation" because the PR firms and the criminal scum they work for say so.

The Israelis refer to as a "terrorist" anyone who even slightly is thinking about not being a submissive serf at best, a quisling "informer" at worst.

Indulging in that "such activities" most often(**) includes defending one's home city/camp from assault by heavy armor and helicopters against light arms, or even being just nearby such a "crime"? This is what I meant by making silly "rules" up on the fly.
**--(finally was able to get a decent set of figures on this one worked out, wholly approximate though they may be)

As for your last question, I have one for you: why is it that no murdering suuicide bombers have come from GAza. Are they kinder and gentler there, or have the barriers Israel has set up been working?? Will the new "security fence" work, also?

If none have come from there, what "terrorists" are they going after in their assaults on the people of Gaza? It's basically a tightly packed prison colony, offing people there is killing them for the sake of filling graves, not combating any "threat". Look at the damage they did to Rafah recently--is that "self defense" or "terrorism"?

[Forkboy]

3. ahhh...the terror tunnels

we should have known.

[bemildred]

4. Yep. And racism, and "not about borders".

Of course this could all merely be opportunistic.
One should expect everyone to toot their own horn when the
chance presents itself.

I'm sort of wondering how come it was just some rent-a-cops
that got splattered? Is that true? Was it just random, or did
they miss a bigger target? I expect the noise level is going to
be very high on this story.

[IndianaGreen]

5. Rent-a-cop that worked for a Jeb Bush company

Someone mentioned this little tidbit upstairs.

[bemildred]

7. Yeah, that bit is interesting too.

Seems convenient, but then again, who else would be doing that?

[IndianaGreen]

29. CNNI is saying that those killed in Gaza were Dyncorp employees

Posted by lebkuchen in GD just now:

CNNI is saying that those killed in Gaza were Dyncorp employees

...that CNNI could just now release that info because next-of-kin had been notified. Initially, CNNI was saying that this group was in Gaza to interview students for Fulbright Scholarships.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=537228

[bemildred]

30. Yup. Protecting the "peace convoy".

[Gimel]

26. Yeah, and what about the Palestinian lead

..vehicle and the wire with a switch attached. This wasn't just some land mine, the convoy was lead into it.

The FBI has been sent in to investigate.

[Jim Sagle]

6. Excellent story.

:thumbsup:

[bemildred]

11. One more:

Americans die as bomb hits peace convoy

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/15/1065917481063.html

[tinnypriv]

27. Yep

All those foreign journos and ISM people were murdered and injured by Palestinians, right?

Er, right?

[bluesoul]

28. Journalists murdered

Actually they were not. Most of them were killed by the IDF..