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Malaysia apologises for Mahathir's 'Jews rule world' remark

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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:30 AM
Original message
Malaysia apologises for Mahathir's 'Jews rule world' remark
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/17/1066364473557.html


Faced with furious criticism from around the world over Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad's assertion that Jews rule the world, Malaysia apologised today for any misunderstanding and claimed that no offence was intended.

Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar struggled to contain the damage wrought by his blunt-spoken boss, who told a summit of Islamic leaders yesterday that "Jews rule the world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them."

Repeated assertions of Jewish dominance dotted the speech to buttress Mahathir's analysis that Muslims needed to embrace modern knowledge and technology and overcome divisions over religious dogma that have left them weakened on the world stage.

"I'm sorry that they have misunderstood the whole thing," Syed Hamid told The Associated Press. "The intention is not to create controversy. His intention is to show that if you ponder and sit down to think, you can be very powerful."

................................................................

oh yeah....just a big misunderstanding........

nothing to see here......thats that.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Forgive me , Aidoneus....
and what point would that be ??
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. that force has gotten them nowhere with Israel,
Edited on Fri Oct-17-03 11:47 AM by Aidoneus
and something else should be tried, negotiating on a settlement to reach a decent agreement for instance. I don't get why he went off on that "Jews" rubbish when that other bit was what he was building up to, that the Jewish people as a community got to where they are (and I disagree with him about what that is) by using their minds rather than clumsy force, and suggested that it should be emulated.

But you know this, because like me, you read the other things he said besides the one lightning rod that got the attention. ...right?
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Really ??
I guess I missed that when he said:

"We need guns and rockets, bombs and warplanes,
tanks and warships for our defense"

or when he said

"The Europeans killed six million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them"

where did you see "negotiate a settlement" ??







'

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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. why would I lie? I don't even care much for him.
Edited on Fri Oct-17-03 12:00 PM by Aidoneus
--snip--
However, Mahathir controversially appeared to suggest it was time for an end to violence against the Israelis.

"Over the past 50 years of fighting in Palestine we have not achieved any result. We have in fact worsened our situation," he said.
--snip--
"The Quran tells us that when the enemy sues for peace we must react positively. True, the treaty offered to us is not favourable. But we can negotiate. The Prophet did... And in the end he triumphed."

Last year, Mahathir, to the chagrin of Arab OIC members, declared Palestinian human bombers who attacked civilian targets as "terrorists" along with the Israeli state.

He said he was aware this proposal would not be popular and its opponents "would want to send more young men and women to make the supreme sacrifice. But where will all these lead to? Certainly not victory."
--snip--

That other bit you refer to was in reference to something else altogether.

Haven't found a full transcript of his remarks, just bits and pieces arranged as some author wishes rather than as the speaker intended, do you know of a more full source for it? A tombstone asked that yesterday, with no return on any decent transcript.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Full text.....let everyone read it
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. oh, thanks
Edited on Fri Oct-17-03 12:28 PM by Aidoneus
Now I feel bad for all of that stuff I say behind your back..

Very insidious indeed.."Our countries must be stable and well-administered, economically and financially strong, industrially competent and technology advanced"

Bits and pieces of nasties tossed aside (and in context, a couple particular bits sound just as stupid and out of place as when they were stripped of context), that's not a bad speech; the coverage of this in the yellow press is even worse than I first suspected--I take that back.. it's not only "worse than I first suspected", but is really embarassing that it passes for journalism.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Is it ok if I post the entire speech??
or is there some rule against it??
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Speech is not copywrited ....I'm posting
ALHAMDULILLAH, All Praise be to Allah, by whose Grace and Blessings we, the leaders of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) countries are gathered here today to confer and hopefully to plot a course for the future of Islam and the Muslim ummah worldwide.

On behalf of the Government and the people of many races and religions of Malaysia, may I extend a warm welcome to all and everyone to this 10th Session of the Islamic Summit Conference in Putrajaya, Malaysia’s administrative capital.

It is indeed a great honour for Malaysia to host this Session and to assume the chairmanship of the OIC. I thank the members for their confidence in Malaysia’s chairmanship.

May I also take this opportunity to pay a special tribute to the State of Qatar, in particular His Highness Shaikh Hamad Bin Khalifa AI-Thani, the Emir of the State of Qatar, for his outstanding stewardship of our organisation over the past three years.

As host, Malaysia is gratified at the high level of participation from member countries. This clearly demonstrates our continued and abiding faith in, and commitment to our organisation and our collective wish and determination to strengthen our role for the dignity and benefit of the ummah.

I would also like to welcome the leaders and representatives of the many countries who wish to become observers at this meeting because of their substantial Muslim population. Whether they are Muslims or not, their presence at this meeting will help towards greater understanding of Islam and the Muslims, thus helping to disprove the perception of Islam as a religion of backwardness and terror.

The whole world is looking at us. Certainly 1.3 billion Muslims, one-sixth of the world’s population are placing their hopes in us, in this meeting, even though they may be cynical about our will and capacity to even decide to restore the honour of Islam and the Muslims, much less to free their brothers and sisters from the oppression and humiliation from which they suffer today.

I will not enumerate the instances of our humiliation and oppression, nor will I once again condemn our detractors and oppressors. It would be an exercise in futility because they are not going to change their attitudes just because we condemn them. If we are to recover our dignity and that of Islam, our religion, it is we who must decide, it is we who must act.

To begin with, the governments of all the Muslim countries can close ranks and have a common stand if not on all issues, at least on some major ones, such as on Palestine. We are all Muslims. We are all oppressed. We are all being humiliated. But we who have been raised by Allah above our fellow Muslims to rule our countries have never really tried to act in concert in order to exhibit at our level the brotherhood and unity that Islam enjoins upon us.

But not only are our governments divided, the Muslim ummah is also divided, and divided again and again. Over the last 1,400 years the interpreters of Islam, the learned ones, the ulamas have interpreted and reinterpreted the single Islamic religion brought by Prophet Muhammad S.A.W, so differently that now we have a thousand religions which are often so much at odds with one another that we often fight and kill each other.

From being a single ummah we have allowed ourselves to be divided into numerous sects, mazhabs and tarikats, each more concerned with claiming to be the true Islam than our oneness as the Islamic ummah. We fail to notice that our detractors and enemies do not care whether we are true Muslims or not. To them we are all Muslims, followers of a religion and a Prophet whom they declare promotes terrorism, and we are all their sworn enemies. They will attack and kill us, invade our lands, bring down our governments whether we are Sunnis or Syiahs, Alawait or Druse or whatever. And we aid and abet them by attacking and weakening each other, and sometimes by doing their bidding, acting as their proxies to attack fellow Muslims. We try to bring down our governments through violence, succeeding to weaken and impoverish our countries.

We ignore entirely and we continue to ignore the Islamic injunction to unite and to be brothers to each other, we the governments of the Islamic countries and the ummah.

But this is not all that we ignore about the teachings of Islam. We are enjoined to Read, Iqraq, i.e. to acquire knowledge. The early Muslims took this to mean translating and studying the works of the Greeks and other scholars before Islam. And these Muslim scholars added to the body of knowledge through their own studies.

The early Muslims produced great mathematicians and scientists, scholars, physicians and astronomers etc. and they excelled in all the fields of knowledge of their times, besides studying and practising their own religion of Islam. As a result the Muslims were able to develop and extract wealth from their lands and through their world trade, able to strengthen their defences, protect their people and give them the Islamic way of life, Addin, as prescribed by Islam. At the time the Europeans of the Middle Ages were still superstitious and backward, the enlightened Muslims had already built a great Muslim civilisation, respected and powerful, more than able to compete with the rest of the world and able to protect the ummah from foreign aggression. The Europeans had to kneel at the feet of Muslim scholars in order to access their own scholastic heritage.

The Muslims were lead by great leaders like Abdul Rahman III, AI-Mansur, Salah El Din AI Ayubi and others who took to the battlefields at the head of their forces to protect Muslim land and the ummah.

But halfway through the building of the great Islamic civilisation came new interpreters of Islam who taught that acquisition of knowledge by Muslims meant only the study of Islamic theology. The study of science, medicine etc. was discouraged.

Intellectually the Muslims began to regress. With intellectual regression the great Muslim civilisation began to falter and wither. But for the emergence of the Ottoman warriors, Muslim civilisation would have disappeared with the fall of Granada in 1492.

The early successes of the Ottomans were not accompanied by an intellectual renaissance. Instead they became more and more preoccupied with minor issues such as whether tight trousers and peak caps were Islamic, whether printing machines should be allowed or electricity used to light mosques. The Industrial Revolution was totally missed by the Muslims. And the regression continued until the British and French instigated rebellion against Turkish rule brought about the downfall of the Ottomans, the last Muslim world power and replaced it with European colonies and not independent states as promised. It was only after World War II that these colonies became independent.

Apart from the new nation-states we also accepted the western democratic system. This also divided us because of the political parties and groups that we form, some of which claim Islam for themselves, reject the Islam of other parties and refuse to accept the results of the practice of democracy if they fail to gain power for themselves. They resort to violence, thus destabilising and weakening Muslim countries.

With all these developments over the centuries the ummah and the Muslim civilisation became so weak that at one time there was not a single Muslim country which was not colonised or hegemonised by the Europeans. But regaining independence did not help to strengthen the Muslims. Their states were weak and badly administered, constantly in a state of turmoil. The Europeans could do what they liked with Muslim territories. It is not surprising that they should excise Muslim land to create the state of Israel to solve their Jewish problem. Divided, the Muslims could do nothing effective to stop the Balfour and Zionist transgression.

Some would have us believe that, despite all these, our life is better than that of our detractors. Some believe that poverty is Islamic, sufferings and being oppressed are Islamic. This world is not for us. Ours are the joys of heaven in the afterlife. All that we have to do is to perform certain rituals, wear certain garments and put up a certain appearance. Our weakness, our backwardness and our inability to help our brothers and sisters who are being oppressed are part of the Will of Allah, the sufferings that we must endure before enjoying heaven in the hereafter. We must accept this fate that befalls us. We need not do anything. We can do nothing against the Will of Allah.

But is it true that it is the Will of Allah and that we can and should do nothing? Allah has said in Surah Ar-Ra’d verse 11 that He will not change the fate of a community until the community has tried to change its fate itself.

The early Muslims were as oppressed as we are presently. But after their sincere and determined efforts to help themselves in accordance with the teachings of Islam, Allah had helped them to defeat their enemies and to create a great and powerful Muslim civilisation. But what effort have we made especially with the resources that He has endowed us with.

We are now 1.3 billion strong. We have the biggest oil reserve in the world. We have great wealth. We are not as ignorant as the Jahilliah who embraced Islam. We are familiar with the workings of the world’s economy and finances. We control 50 out of the 180 countries in the world. Our votes can make or break international organisations. Yet we seem more helpless than the small number of Jahilliah converts who accepted the Prophet as their leader. Why? Is it because of Allah’s will or is it because we have interpreted our religion wrongly, or failed to abide by the correct teachings of our religion, or done the wrong things?

We are enjoined by our religion to prepare for the defence of the ummah. Unfortunately we stress not defence but the weapons of the time of the Prophet. Those weapons and horses cannot help to defend us any more. We need guns and rockets, bombs and warplanes, tanks and warships for our defence. But because we discouraged the learning of science and mathematics etc as giving no merit for the akhirat, today we have no capacity to produce our own weapons for our defence. We have to buy our weapons from our detractors and enemies. This is what comes from the superficial interpretation of the Quran, stressing not the substance of the Prophet’s sunnah and the Quran’s injunctions but rather the form, the manner and the means used in the 1st Century of the Hijrah. And it is the same with the other teachings of Islam. We are more concerned with the forms rather than the substance of the words of Allah and adhering only to the literal interpretation of the traditions of the Prophet.

We may want to recreate the first century of the Hijrah, the way of life in those times, in order to practise what we think to be the true Islamic way of life. But we will not be allowed to do so. Our detractors and enemies will take advantage of the resulting backwardness and weakness in order to dominate us. Islam is not just for the 7th Century A.D. Islam is for all times. And times have changed. Whether we like it or not we have to change, not by changing our religion but by applying its teachings in the context of a world that is radically different from that of the first century of the Hijrah. Islam is not wrong but the interpretations by our scholars, who are not prophets even though they may be very learned, can be wrong. We have a need to go back to the fundamental teachings of Islam to find out whether we are indeed believing in and practising the Islam that the Prophet preached. It cannot be that we are all practising the correct and true Islam when our beliefs are so different from one another.

Today we, the whole Muslim ummah are treated with contempt and dishonour. Our religion is denigrated. Our holy places desecrated. Our countries are occupied. Our people starved and killed.

None of our countries are truly independent. We are under pressure to conform to our oppressors’ wishes about how we should behave, how we should govern our lands, how we should think even.

Today if they want to raid our country, kill our people, destroy our villages and towns, there is nothing substantial that we can do. Is it Islam which has caused all these? Or is it that we have failed to do our duty according to our religion?

Our only reaction is to become more and more angry. Angry people cannot think properly. And so we find some of our people reacting irrationally. They launch their own attacks, killing just about anybody including fellow Muslims to vent their anger and frustration. Their governments can do nothing to stop them. The enemy retaliates and puts more pressure on the governments. And the governments have no choice but to give in, to accept the directions of the enemy, literally to give up their independence of action.

With this their people and the ummah become angrier and turn against their own governments. Every attempt at a peaceful solution is sabotaged by more indiscriminate attacks calculated to anger the enemy and prevent any peaceful settlement. But the attacks solve nothing. The Muslims simply get more oppressed.

There is a feeling of hopelessness among the Muslim countries and their people. They feel that they can do nothing right. They believe that things can only get worse. The Muslims will forever be oppressed and dominated by the Europeans and the Jews. They will forever be poor, backward and weak. Some believe, as I have said, this is the Will of Allah, that the proper state of the Muslims is to be poor and oppressed in this world.

But is it true that we should do and can do nothing for ourselves? Is it true that 1.3 billion people can exert no power to save themselves from the humiliation and oppression inflicted upon them by a much smaller enemy? Can they only lash back blindly in anger? Is there no other way than to ask our young people to blow themselves up and kill people and invite the massacre of more of our own people?

It cannot be that there is no other way. 1.3 billion Muslims cannot be defeated by a few million Jews. There must be a way. And we can only find a way if we stop to think, to assess our weaknesses and our strength, to plan, to strategise and then to counter-attack. As Muslims we must seek guidance from the Al-Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet. Surely the 23 years’ struggle of the Prophet can provide us with some guidance as to what we can and should do.

We know he and his early followers were oppressed by the Qhuraish. Did he launch retaliatory strikes? No. He was prepared to make strategic retreats. He sent his early followers to a Christian country and he himself later migrated to Madinah. There he gathered followers, built up his defence capability and ensured the security of his people. At Hudaibiyah he was prepared to accept an unfair treaty, against the wishes of his companions and followers. During the peace that followed he consolidated his strength and eventually he was able to enter Mecca and claim it for Islam. Even then he did not seek revenge. And the peoples of Mecca accepted Islam and many became his most powerful supporters, defending the Muslims against all their enemies.

That briefly is the story of the struggle of the Prophet. We talk so much about following the sunnah of the Prophet. We quote the instances and the traditions profusely. But we actually ignore all of them.

If we use the faculty to think that Allah has given us then we should know that we are acting irrationally. We fight without any objective, without any goal other than to hurt the enemy because they hurt us. Naively we expect them to surrender. We sacrifice lives unnecessarily, achieving nothing other than to attract more massive retaliation and humiliation.

It is surely time that we pause to think. But will this be wasting time? For well over half a century we have fought over Palestine. What have we achieved? Nothing. We are worse off than before. If we had paused to think then we could have devised a plan, a strategy that can win us final victory. Pausing and thinking calmly is not a waste of time. We have a need to make a strategic retreat and to calmly assess our situation.

We are actually very strong. 1.3 billion people cannot be simply wiped out. The Europeans killed six million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them.

We may not be able to do that. We may not be able to unite all the 1.3 billion Muslims. We may not be able to get all the Muslim Governments to act in concert. But even if we can get a third of the ummah and a third of the Muslim states to act together, we can already do something. Remember that the Prophet did not have many followers when he went to Madinah. But he united the Ansars and the Muhajirins and eventually he became strong enough to defend Islam.

Apart from the partial unity that we need, we must take stock of our assets. I have already mentioned our numbers and our oil wealth. In today’s world we wield a lot of political, economic and financial clout, enough to make up for our weakness in military terms.

We also know that not all non-Muslims are against us. Some are well disposed towards us. Some even see our enemies as their enemies. Even among the Jews there are many who do not approve of what the Israelis are doing.

We must not antagonise everyone. We must win their hearts and minds. We must win them to our side not by begging for help from them but by the honourable way that we struggle to help ourselves. We must not strengthen the enemy by pushing everyone into their camps through irresponsible and unIslamic acts. Remember Salah El Din and the way he fought against the so-called Crusaders, King Richard of England in particular. Remember the considerateness of the Prophet to the enemies of Islam. We must do the same. It is winning the struggle that is important, not angry retaliation, not revenge.

We must build up our strength in every field, not just in armed might. Our countries must be stable and well administered, must be economically and financially strong, industrially competent and technologically advanced. This will take time, but it can be done and it will be time well spent. We are enjoined by our religion to be patient. Innallahamaasabirin. Obviously there is virtue in being patient.

But the defence of the ummah, the counter-attack, need not start only after we have put our houses in order. Even today we have sufficient assets to deploy against our detractors. It remains for us to identify them and to work out how to make use of them to stop the carnage caused by the enemy. This is entirely possible if we stop to think, to plan, to strategise and to take the first few critical steps. Even these few steps can yield positive results.

We know that the Jahilliah Arabs were given to feuding, to killing each other simply because they were from different tribes. The Prophet preached the brotherhood of Islam to them and they were able to overcome their hatred for each other, become united and helped towards the establishment of the great Muslim civilisation. Can we say that what the Jahilliah (the ignorant) could do we, the modern Muslims cannot do? If not all at least some of us can do. If not the renaissance of our great civilisation, at least ensuring the security of the ummah.

To do the things that are suggested will not even require all of us to give up our differences with each other. We need only to call a truce so we can act together in tackling only certain problems of common interests, the Palestine problem for example.

In any struggle, in any war, nothing is more important than concerted and coordinated action. A degree of discipline is all that is needed. The Prophet lost in Jabal Uhud because his forces broke rank. We know that, yet we are unwilling to discipline ourselves and to give up our irregular and uncoordinated actions. We need to be brave but not foolhardy. We need to think not just of our reward in the afterlife but also of the worldly results of our mission.

The Quran tells us that when the enemy sues for peace we must react positively. True the treaty offered is not favourable to us. But we can negotiate. The Prophet did, at Hudaibiyah. And in the end he triumphed.

I am aware that all these ideas will not be popular. Those who are angry would want to reject it out of hand. They would even want to silence anyone who makes or supports this line of action. They would want to send more young men and women to make the supreme sacrifice. But where will all these lead to? Certainly not victory. Over the past 50 years of fighting in Palestine we have not achieved any result. We have in fact worsened our situation.

The enemy will probably welcome these proposals and we will conclude that the promoters are working for the enemy. But think. We are up against a people who think. They survived 2000 years of pogroms not by hitting back, but by thinking. They invented and successfully promoted Socialism, Communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong, so they may enjoy equal rights with others. With these they have now gained control of the most powerful countries and they, this tiny community, have become a world power. We cannot fight them through brawn alone. We must use our brains also.

Of late because of their power and their apparent success they have become arrogant. And arrogant people, like angry people will make mistakes, will forget to think.

They are already beginning to make mistakes. And they will make more mistakes. There may be windows of opportunity for us now and in the future. We must seize these opportunities.

But to do so we must get our acts right. Rhetoric is good. It helps us to expose the wrongs perpetrated against us, perhaps win us some sympathy and support. It may strengthen our spirit, our will and resolve, to face the enemy.

We can and we should pray to Allah S.W.T. for in the end it is He who will determine whether we succeed or fail. We need His blessings and His help in our endeavours,

But it is how we act and what we do which will determine whether He would help us and give us victory or not. He has already said so in the Quran. Again Surah Ar-Ra’d verse 11.

As I said at the beginning, the whole world is looking at us, the whole Muslim ummah is placing their hopes in this conference of the leaders of Islamic nations. They expect us not just to vent our frustrations and anger, through words and gestures, not just to pray for Allah’s blessings. They expect us to do something, to act. We cannot say we cannot do anything, we the leaders of the Muslim nations. We cannot say we cannot unite even when faced with the destruction of our religion and the ummah.

We know we can. There are many things that we can do. There are many resources that we have at our disposal. What is needed is merely the will to do it, As Muslims, we must be grateful for the guidance of our religion, we must do what needs to be done, willingly and with determination. Allah has not raised us, the leaders, above the others so we may enjoy power for ourselves only. The power we wield is for our people, for the ummah, for Islam. We must have the will to make use of this power judiciously, prudently, concertedly. Insyaallah we will triumph in the end.

I pray to Allah that this 10th Conference of the OIC in Putrajaya, Malaysia, will give a new and positive direction to us, will be blessed with success by Him, Almighty Allah, Arahman, Arahirn.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Oh my god!
Edited on Fri Oct-17-03 02:30 PM by Darranar
Except for those few anti-semitic sentence, this was an excellent speech where he pointed out the troubles with Islam. I guess Aidoneous and DuctapeFatwa were right.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I accept credit for nothing but being penetratingly observant by nature
humble, too. :)
DuctapeFatwa's posts in that other thread are the standouts.

there's more from him now--

--snip--

``Lots of people make nasty statements about us, about Muslims,'' Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad said. ``People call Muslims terrorists, they even say ... Muhammed the prophet was a terrorist.''

``People make such statements, and they seem to get away with it. But if you say anything at all against the Jews, you are accused of being anti-Semitic,'' Mahathir told a news conference after the close of a summit of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, the world's largest Muslim grouping.

--snip--

But Mahathir was unapologetic Friday - stressing that remarks by his foreign minister expressing sorrow over misunderstandings were not an apology for the speech - and he told the news conference he opposed terrorism, suicide bombings and Israel's policy of massive retaliation in response to Palestinian violence.

``What I said in my speech is that we should stop all this violence,'' Mahathir said, noting that historically, Jews had sought refuge in Muslim lands to escape persecution in Europe.

--snip--

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3276812,00.html
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. not sure..
Edited on Fri Oct-17-03 12:31 PM by Aidoneus
I don't suppose The Star has a copyright on it, unless that counts their transcription/translating of it. Ask Lithos?

At any rate, those interested or having reacted to reports of it previously really should read the whole thing.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. The idea that only the US should have weapons is very popular

with bush and sharon regime loyalists, but is not as enthusiastically supported in the rest of the world.

Mahatir is not the only leader, and Malaysia is not the only country, that just plain disagrees with the premise that self-defense is a privilege that can only be bestowed by the United States.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks
The more defenses of what he said the better. It really clarifies things.
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omshanti Donating Member (851 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. happens a lot for Mahathir...
I'm from Malaysia, so I know -- our Prime Minister has a habit of saying controversial things just to get attention. Seems like every time Malaysia is in the news it is for something embarrassing.

It's a bit embarrassing really. Especially given that Malaysia is a wonderful place to live.
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dudeness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. very true omshanti
your PM has a habit of doing these things to grab a headline..btw the i agree Malaysia is a beatiuful country and i have fond memories of my travels thru that region..welcome to DU
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. The irony is that Mahatir is the one who has been trying to stop violence

Just think if all the assorted dollahos and Anglo-US-created dynasties and all the various self-appointed Living Lights of Rule in Iran, not to mention poor old Occupied Pakistan would have listened to Mahatir 2 years ago, there would now be close to 2 billion people using currency tied to the Islamic gold dinar and not the dollar, and the Crusade would have been dead in the water, and maybe, just maybe, countries with air forces would have found the testicular content to disarm the US, take the PNACers off to the Hague, where ideally they would all share a cell with and yell at Ariel Sharon to stop leaving his revolting toenail cuttings all over the floor, and bring in international monitors to hold free and open elections in the US, the kind where EVERYBODY votes, not just the top 25% income tier, and best of all, there would be a lot more people in the world who are with their families instead of graves.

Now I want some roti canai. :)
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. ?
Edited on Fri Oct-17-03 03:27 PM by Aidoneus
Me referring to Mahathir's remarks about Jews as "stupid" is a bad thing? Pointing out that he had an ignored point besides that is verboten? Suggesting that drdon probably agrees with him that the failed attempts of force against Israel should be reconsidred is better disappeared?

I don't understand these things sometimes. Perhaps after a bit of sleep it may make more sense, but I suspect some hard liquor would work better.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. Scary
Some few comments from it:

What happened to this idea: “Apart from the new nation-states we also accepted the western democratic system.”

At least he understands the UN:

“We control 50 out of the 180 countries in the world. Our votes can make or break international organizations.”

And people wonder why Israel feels like the UN is stacked against it.

And how he feels about Israel:

“1.3 billion Muslims cannot be defeated by a few million Jews. There must be a way. And we can only find a way if we stop to think, to assess our weaknesses and our strength, to plan, to strategise and then to counter-attack.”

Yes counter-attack. This is a war. He knows it. Israel knows it. I wish others here would realize it.

Human rights of Jews: “They invented and successfully promoted Socialism, Communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong,”

Not BE wrong mind you, just appear so. Oy.

He was right about something: “the whole world is looking at us ” and some of us intend to keep it that way.

The rock is overturned, let’s take a look what he and those who agree with him have to say.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Islam
So you see it as a Christian/Jewish vs Islam thing Muddle, when you agree with "the whole world is looking at us" part? We must beware of Islam and Muslims? Yes?
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Nope
If I have a family that has 100 people in it and three of them are murdering psychopaths, does that implicate my whole family? No. So the murdering psychopath wing of Islam is much the same, except they hide by religion to do it.

Nevertheless, such a wing DOES exist.

The whole world is indeed looking at them because of what he has said and what has said is clearly trying to rally all 1.3 billion Muslims against the Jewish people and the West and possibly anybody who isn't Muslim.

It would be interesting to see the rest of Islam's reaction to this, but I expect it will be glossed over much as it is here.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. US does not apologize for General Boykins' policy statement

Nor should there be an apology.

The General is paid by the US taxpayers, both affluent voters, and those for whom the tax burden is a greater hardship alike, although the latter are less likely to vote.

The taxpayers have the right to know where there money is going.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Update: General issues sort of apology, but you know it's gotten bad when

CNN has a CAIR guy on holding up a bible in Arabic to prove that yeah it really is too the same deity, it's just there are some people who don't speak English, so they don't call him "God"...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. A bit more on this from Haaretz:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/350627.html

Chirac blocks EU condemnation of Malaysian PM's remarks

---

On Thursday, Mahathir, a respected leader in the
developing world with a long history of making
articulate, provocative comments, told leaders
from 57 Islamic nations that Muslims had
achieved "nothing" in more than 50 years of
fighting Israel.

---

Mahathir said the world's "1.3 billion Muslims
cannot be defeated by a few million Jews," but
suggested the use of political and economic
tactics, not violence, to achieve a "final
victory."

"In today's world, we wield a lot of political,
economic and financial clout, enough to make up
for our weaknesses in military terms," Mahathir
said.

The speech drew a standing ovation from the
assembled leaders, who included Saudi Arabian
Crown Prince Abdullah, Afghan President Hamid
Karzai, Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf and
Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri.
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