Hamas says open to new truce in Gaza

[shira]

GAZA (Reuters) - Palestinians in Gaza observed a 24-hour halt to rocket fire against Israel at the request of Egyptian mediators who made efforts to restore a longer truce.

<snip>

The hold on firing seemed to be observed, with only two rockets and a mortar reported to have been fired on Monday from Gaza, and rocket and four mortars shot on Sunday night. :)

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4BL18G20081222

[aranthus]

1. Good. Let's hope cool heads prevail. n/t.

[azurnoir]

2. We can always hope n/t

[shira]

3. Anyone notice in the OP the conflicting reports?

In one line, Gazans are reported observing a 24 hour halt in rocket fire. In the next, that halt is reported as being observed because only 3 rockets and 5 mortars were shot during the 24 hour period.

:)

Nice "halt" being observed and reported on, huh?

[azurnoir]

4. your motive for posting was questionable

perhaps a couple of us chose to ignore it, or give the benefit of a doubt.

[Vegasaurus]

5. What's the motive?

Either it is a "ceasefire" (which means no rockets or mortars or suicide bombings) or it isn't.

Hamas likes to have it both ways, but then to cry foul when Israel closes the border.

If they want their aid, stop with the rockets.

Then the aid comes through.

It seems that if Hamas cared about the welfare of its citizens (which it clearly does not) they would welcome a ceasefire, so that all those "starving' people could eat.

They themselves have that control, but continue to act as an insane government instead.

[azurnoir]

6. working on those hotkeys? n/t

[Vegasaurus]

7. excuse me? nt

[azurnoir]

10. Are you the one who posted the OP? n/t

[shira]

8. just reporting a message within a message, that's all

Hamas considering an extension of the ceasefire is important news.

So do you think writing about a ceasefire being held when 3 rockets and 5 mortars are fired by one side within a 24-hour period is good, honest and reliable reporting?

I know....the question is too difficult. I expect silence, a diversion, or another "LOL".

[azurnoir]

11. A message within a message

and obviously frustrated that no one was biting, I was actually giving you the benefit of a doubt that your purpose was not expressly to point out that 2 rockets were fired in spite of a temporary and one sided cease fire, meanwhile Israel treated Gaza to aerial bombardment via F-17s odd how you "forget" to mention that part.

[shira]

9. Egypt warns Israel against Gaza raid

www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1229868806542&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Egypt warned Israel on Sunday against launching a massive military operation in Gaza, but Israeli defense officials said Cairo was angry with Hamas leaders for ending the six-month period of relative calm.


Masked Palestinian terrorists from Islamic Jihad place Kassam rockets before later firing them towards Israel on the outskirts of Gaza City, Saturday.
Photo: AP

Slideshow: Pictures of the week "Egypt is very upset at Hamas, and understands that the leadership there needs to be replaced," one official told The Jerusalem Post.

Officially, though, the Egyptians cautioned Israel against an escalation of violence.

<snip>

While some critics have suggested that Egypt open up the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Sinai to allow goods and persons to enter and exit freely, this was unacceptable to Egypt, Zaki said. "This would be very easy, for Israel to shut down its crossings and completely disconnect from the Gaza Strip and ask Egypt to take over," he said.

============================================================

What a crock!

Israel disconnecting so Egypt takes over? In order to let UN trucks in and out? Riiiight.

[azurnoir]

12. I am sure some here are praying your right

What a crock!

Israel disconnecting so Egypt takes over? In order to let UN trucks in and out? Riiiight.

So now Egypt has named the price all Israel has to is........

[Kurska]

13. If only gaza could just be handed over to egypt

With Egyptian soldiers patrolling to stop rocket fire, one can dream right?

[Vegasaurus]

14. Egypt wants nothing to do with Gaza or the Palestinians

Israel wanted to get rid of Gaza before, and the Egyptians did not want to take it.

When the Gazans broke through the wall last year, Egypt quickly erected a ten foot concrete new one (why is no one screeching about THAT wall?).

Egypt will not take care of the Palestinian problem.

[azurnoir]

15. As long as Israel also removes

the air and sea blockades fine

[pelsar]

16. and .....

if they are removed and larger missiles are imported and launched on israelis larger cities from gaza because of a new grievance.....

what then?

i realize you dont like "hypotheticasls or even real scenarios"...yet its kind of dumb to ignore possible consequences for ones actions.....i dont suppose you have a real answer....other than some vague "israel can defend itself but cant use missiles, bombs guns that hurt people.....}

i dont think i've misunderstood your position here.....and if i have your welcome to clarify.

[azurnoir]

17. No you have not misunderstood anything

you simply look to justify "from the river to the sea" under the guise of security while of course claiming you do not.

[pelsar]

18. so your saying it cant happen?

its impossible, unthinkable and not even to be considered?

[azurnoir]

19. I was answering your what ifs

There is always a risk, but as you have in the past Israel should not have to take any, that coupled with other posts about the OPT and what happened when we took our boots off the ground in Gaza boil down to a justification on your part for a forever occupation.

[pelsar]

20. so what is your suggestion if it should happen?

a good govt prepares for possible scenarios (and the incompetent ones dont: katrina....twin towers....)....so if israel opens up the sea and hamas and friends decide to follow hizballas philosophy of importing long range missiles and then start using them on israeli cities....as they drop kassams and mortars almost daily on israel.

what would you recommend to the IDF/Israel?

i'm not asking for any justification..just your recommendation/suggestion.

[azurnoir]

23. My how ungrateful

a good govt prepares for possible scenarios (and the incompetent ones dont: katrina....twin towers....)...

From an American point of view the current out going administration was irresponsible, not to mention war criminals, but it could be said that the same administration treated Israel better than it seated the US it provided a stage on which the Israeli government could play act that it wanted peace while the congress here was making monetary decisions a couple of which concerned Israel, heard your government made out quite nicely there, then turned a blind eye while your government went back on those promises and added a few odious caveats of its own and most lately a base with a missile detecting system, oh wait is that the problem my government did not just give it to yours the base is manned US soldiers. But I digress what if you see nothing you mention happening has not already happened and what does IDF do about it> They kill lots of Palestinians which according to you is beneficial to the Palestinians I guess you are suggesting it helps population density or something,but perhaps your government could sit down and have honest negotiations, something it has yet to do with an enemy that could not significantly harm it.

[pelsar]

21. or is the suggestion: not to do anything that might endanger Palestinians?

just trying to get a very very clear answer that can be put in to some kind of "action" or non action.

if by some miniscule chance that hamas and friends do continue to shoot missiles on israeli cities after getting their borders opened......

i think that is your answer, but your not actually writing it down....will you?

[pelsar]

22. in case you forgot....

just still waiting for a real clear written answer.....

[azurnoir]

24. Didn't forget and you got one a very clear answer

but you will not accept it.

[pelsar]

25. you simply cant write it out can you?.....

just write it out in the next post... in your own words:...you write a lot here, usually condemnations of israeli polices yet never clarifying what would be acceptable as an 'israeli defense.(if any....)

you wrote once that you like challanges...heres one for:....you can even write different options for different scenarios, using todays technologies

your words:what should israel do to stop the kassams/grads and mortars today tomorow and if they open the sea and hamas imports katushas and uses them?__________

i think from what you wrote...you think israel should do nothing and that the israelis infact deserve the missiles (since they cant guarantee that they might kill a gazan in an attempt to stop the kassams)...but i dont know since you seem not to be able to write it out

[azurnoir]

26. What you want for "some" reason is for me to say

Israel is not allowed to defend itself the preferred answer, or that anything Israel does is OK not going to happen nor will I write out some simplistic scenario for your entertainment, AFAIC IDF did as close as gets to the right thing the other day when it blew the bomb factory with supposedly only one casualty, but I also keep in mind that the Israeli government is looking for international approval for a major ground operation, as recent history has shown the world should get it in writing first, and even that might not make any difference also see comment #24 where at the end I use the "N" word

[pelsar]

27. too difficult?.....

i dont know what you want to say....simply because you dont seem to be able to define it...but i now have an good idea.

nor do i care what the israeli govt is looking for..i'm not asking them, nor are they here..the question is as simple as it gets and its directed toward you:

you say you dont want a simplistic scenario?..no problem i'll give you a complex one..

you almost define your definition of a "proper israeli defense"
AFAIC IDF did as close as gets to the right thing the other day when it blew the bomb factory with supposedly only one casualty

yet you wont write it out clearly...you seem to want me to write it our so you can say "yes or no" and than later on claim it wasnt understood, as you've done in the past...why?...

if this helps, i'll write out what you've be trying to avoid writing out....feel free to change it, so its not my words but your own:

____________
israels defense should only consist of destroying the means to terrorize israelis, if it means hurting a Palestinians in the process then it should not be used..and since todays technologies and human judgement cannot guarantee such actions, israel in fact on a practical level should do nothing active to stop the attacks on its cities.
_________

i think that sums up your viewpoint pretty well dont you? if i am wrong, then instead of writing that i am wrong, perhaps take it and modify it....

[azurnoir]

28. Well we're about to get an answer from your government

they have just voted to start a major ground operation in Gaza, so you can interpret or twist my answer any way you please, you got it, you just do not like it.

[pelsar]

29. its not a matter of liking or not liking...its your simple refusal

to write down in your own words what kind of defense you would permit the IDF to use

YOUR WORDS...what are you so afraid of?

[azurnoir]

30. I am not afraid of anything

I already did write it in my own words, but to clarify destroy the means by which Hamas makes the rockets with a minimal of civilian causalities, however you your have admitted that while IDF does not target civilians it simply does not care much if it kills them either.

[pelsar]

31. now were getting somewhere....

destroy the means by which Hamas makes the rockets with a minimal of civilian causalities

im not going to ask you to quantify that, since that is actually quite impossible.....but lets explore this...you wrote just the means....so what about those who are potentially about to launch some kassams and they are next to the rocket on the launcher...

If the iDF can destroy the rocket and indoing so probably kill those next to it who are setting up...should the IDF pilot shoot or not? (this is hardly a "hypothetical...more like real life)

[shira]

32. that's a war crime

"If the iDF can destroy the rocket and indoing so probably kill those next to it who are setting up...should the IDF pilot shoot or not? (this is hardly a "hypothetical...more like real life)"

It's a war crime for Israel to do that, illegal under international law - but only for Israel. Even if it's illegal for everyone else, only Israel is ever called out for self-defense. Doesn't matter if this is a double-standard. When they opt for the fence/wall/checkpoint method, that's worse than apartheid. So no military ops. No targeted killings. No wall/fence/checkpoints. There's absolutely nothing Israel is allowed to do other than surrender and commit national suicide.

As we see, nothing they do is acceptable. No one offers any better or more practical solutions. Surrender and commit suicide is the only answer.