Fewer attacks, more hatred

[pelsar]

just a good summary

There is no doubt that the separation fence is justified from a security standpoint. The result - a substantial reduction in terrorist activity - speaks for itself. But it is important to understand the moral, social and ethical price we are paying for our treatment of the Palestinians. In the short run, we have admittedly suffered fewer terror attacks. But in the long run, we are raising a generation that will continue to hate us. And, even worse, we are destroying our children, socially and morally.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1049051.html

its been noticed in the talkbacks that he has no solution......

[azurnoir]

1. Well for some I guess it is better to be

destroyed from with in than from with out.

[Kurska]

2. How does the seperation fence destroy from within?

?

[azurnoir]

3. My what a well parsed question

but did you read the OP? Apparently not.

[pelsar]

9. destroyed from within.....

from several angles...ignoring the settlers and their influence on the society or their "education" ...for the "tel aviv" kid who spends time in the westbank as the occupier in order to do his job he must see every Palestinian, from kid to grandma as a potential bomb carrier, that reduced their "humaness" in his eyes-since he/she has no choice. In the past when the checkpoint guards let their "guard down" for ambulances, grandmothers, medical pass...israelis were blown up.....

Late night raids in to homes, in search of stuff further tends to "degrade" them in the eyes of those who are involved. All take their toll on ones moral values.

[pelsar]

10. yes good point..

whereas psychological damage can be repaired.....and for many its only temporary...being dead is rather permanent. I suspect if you took a world wide poll, including Israelis and Palestinians (and even here on the DU), the vast majority would prefer to live, something related to human nature.

[azurnoir]

4. This will surely get me in trouble but well

this is as a good a time as any-

I have wondered if Adolf Hitlers"lack of success" in destroying the Jewish people has been somewhat underestimated. no in the physical sense we survived, but in a deeper sense that being made eternally frightened and paranoid, ready to see any threat as the next "Final Solution" and treat it as such, even if it is only said or if the those who make the threats will never have the means to carry them out and the actions undertaken to quell them only deepen the problem.

[oberliner]

5. Attempts to destroy the Jewish people predate Hitler

Jews have been massacred or expelled from their home countries for centuries - there was the massacre of the 5,000 Jews of Seville in 1391, the Chmielnicki Massacre of 1648 where the Cossacks killed about 100,000 Polish Jews (about a third of the Jewish population), and a multitude of attacks, pogroms, and expulsions that preceded and followed those horrific events.

It probably would've served the Jews of Europe to be a little more paranoid than they were during Hitler's reign. Perhaps more of them could have seen the signs earlier and escaped while escape was possible.

[azurnoir]

7. Excuse me but well duh, Hitler was different

he represented the only modern preplanned factory style non-religious attempt at not just destroying the Jews but also genocide itself, there have been other attempts at genocide since but none had the planning and execution of the final solution. Not to mention the Holocaust is still living history.

As to your last part true enough but escape was not possible for long after 1933 as many countries the US and UK either banned or imposed severe limits on Jewish immagration, it could be sai9d with equal truth that hundreds of thousands of Jews could have been saved had America not slammed the door to Jewish immigration.

It may be a bit odd to say but the greatest threat to Judaism today may well be assimilation.

[oberliner]

8. No argument there

I just believe that the eternal fear that you identify among Jewish people may have had its origins before WWII. Recall that the Zionist movement started well-before the emergence of Hitler and that part of the impetus for that movement was a concern for the safety and security of the Jewish people in the diaspora.

[pelsar]

11. except that its not paranoia...

you would have a point if anti semetism/zionism was not so prevalent (zionism = racism?).....and you've got every two bit arab dictator at one point in their career screaming how israel must go....you've got anti jew/jewish-israeli movies, anti jew laws.......

and when missiles are launched at jewish cities.....they're excused by some white elite as (this really is my favorite line) accuate enough to aim but not accurate to hit the target).......

unfortuantly that "paranoia" has a solid bases.


Hitler wasnt special in his anti-semetisim, he was just more successful with it.

[Vegasaurus]

6. Jews are never again just walking into ovens

and whether or not you see existential threats from 22 hostile Arab countries (or most of them at least). Israelis now take threats seriously.

Having survived near annihilation several times in the past, Jews aren't that stupid any more.

The Palestinians may not have the capability to obliterate Israel today, but they are working on it, and without question, when they have the capability, they will do so.

After all, they have been vowing to do this for 60 years, and are dying to make good on their promise.

Israel is right to erect a wall, and right to do everything to protect itself from hostile enemies.

[Crunchy Frog]

12. Sounds like he's suggesting that a possible solution

would be to have the wall run along the Green Line, rather than having it go so deeply into occupied territory and being structured in such a way as to completely accomodate the settlers at the expense of the Palestinians.

In any event, it looks to me like it probably is an insoluble problem, and I'm damned glad that I don't live there myself.

[shira]

13. let's not forget, more Israeli concessions = more hatred too

Israel may as well have never given back the Sinai, Gaza, or S.Lebanon - or agreed to Camp David / Taba 2000.

The more they concede or offer up, the more they're hated.

This is the lesson Israelis have learned after thinking things would be better after making those offers and following through on those actions. Just when they think uprooting settlements and ending occupation will result in better relations and a good move towards peace, it only results in increasing resentment and hatred. As though keeping Sinai, Gaza, and S.Lebanon would have been well worth it.