Gaza: Hamas gunmen hide in hospitals

[ProgressiveProfessor]

Shin Bet chief briefs cabinet on day five of Gaza offensive, says terror operatives hide in hospitals, mosques. IDF: Hamas increases use of densely populated areas for launching pads

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3648020,00.html

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Ynet gets posted here from time to time. Thought it was good to see what the Israeli government is saying publicly

[Deja Q]

1. Grand. Makes the bastards harder to stop.

Fucking COWARDS.

[sam sarrha]

19. but easier for the locals to find em and kill the bastards..

[ananda]

2. Hamas uses human shields.

You can't get around that.

Still...

[Vegasaurus]

3. They are a bunch of cowardly idiots

who have put 1.5 million people at risk.

They should all be killed.

[atreides1]

4. I'd like a second opinion

It's not like Shin Bet is an unbiased player in this offensive.

Maybe have the French/UK/Germans do an intel operation, just to see what someone without a dog in this fight has to say.

[Howardx]

5. why believe the shin bet?

israels cia. more likely this is their cover story for when they start destroying hospitals in gaza.

[bunnies]

7. They've already blown up an oxygen filling station that Gaza hospitals use.

Oh, and ambulance workers... hospitals next? hmmm.

[Brgotn]

6. And the silence is.......

And where is the outrage??? Using humans as shields is a war crime but I guess they get a pass on that one.

[Howardx]

9. they get a pass from me

because the shin bet are known liars.

[THUNDER HANDS]

11. that's like asking

where's the outrage when cockroaches invade your home?

Hamas isn't a legitimate organization, therefore, they don't get afforded the sentiment of outrage that gets reserved for Israel and others who, when they do something wrong or criminal, you expect better from them.

All the yelling and screaming in the world isn't going to get Hamas to change its ways, therefore there's no point to doing it.

Yelling and screaming at Israel when they do something foolish, however, at least has a chance of making them pause.

[bemildred]

8. Better they should hide in jet bombers I suppose? nt

[booley]

10. One thing I never understood

Why would Hamas bother to use other palestinians as shields when the israeli military has no problem attacking them all?

And isn't ALL of Gaza densely populated?

[bunnies]

12. Excellent point. nt

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

20. Hamas doesn't discriminate. Killing Jews is what they live for

they want to eliminate every Israeli Jew.

Both your statement and my mockery of your statement (something I'd never dream of saying seriously) are disgusting bigoted crap.

Shame on YOU.

[booley]

25. I am not sure it is "bigoted crap"

I think there are many on both sides that really do want to kill everyone on the "other side" off.

And since there so many who want to engage in collective guilt (including here) then what difference does it make if some don't want that?

In other words, I think the problem is deeper then just racism.

[cali]

29. The comment wasn't about some or many.

It was absolutely bigoted crap. And that's why it's gone.

[azurnoir]

17. The population density of Gaza is 10,655 /sq mi le

which makes it much more densely populated that Houston TX, Minneapolis MN, St Louis MO, Dallas TX, Cincinnati OH Oakland CA to name few places

[azurnoir]

14. Shabak Israel's own NSA says

well it must be the truth no question about it, wonder how many Shabak had to tortur interrogate to get that information and well it does justify bombing hospitals doesn't it especially that some are "masquerading" as medical personnel, oh and mosques too well we know Israel's next targets thanks for the info.

That "Hamas" or any other Palestinian thinking that IDF will not bomb shell or other wise destroy any civilian target is laughable, this is a preclean up for phase 2

[Turbineguy]

15. It's an old tactic for the Palestinians.

It worked well in Lebanon, getting Israel to kill many non-combatants.

(Robert Fisk wrote about that in his book "Pity the Nation".)

Then Hamas pretends outrage at the civilian casualties.

[booley]

16. Except it didnt' seem to take much prodding

The Arab world already hates Israel.

The Israeli's a s a country dont' seem concerned when their military kills civilians

Meanwhile in the US, our media seems not to care either. Certainly there hasn't been any serious talk about not giving Israel the arms to keep on killing civilians, regardless of how many are killed.

And Hamas aside, wouldn't the Palestinians have genuine outrage?

So it seems that Hamas really doesn't' get much. Since, among other things, Hamas is composed of Palestinians (which means they losing their own friends and families) And it in no way is stopping Israel.

I am not saying this is part of a genocidal plot. I am saying Israel simply doesn't care and maybe Hamas isn't just hiding among the populace as they ARE the populace. It's not as if Gaza has a military.

[Vegasaurus]

18. And that's why they are a bunch of cowards

Hamas should put on uniforms and fight like men, instead of hiding among women, children,hospitals and schools like they are playing at war, instead of really at war.

[booley]

24. Have you thought about that?

First of all, not sure dying en masse constitutes a good military strategy for anyone. Nor do I think it is really "hiding" when your enemies will harm women and children to get to you.

Second, this is no different then any other partisan conflict where one side has vastly superior military power.

Third, by all means if you want to arrange for Gaza to get the money for uniforms for a"proper" army, I am sure they would be happy to accept. And while you are at it, give them jets and tanks and weapons to counter the jets and tanks and weapons that Israel has. While I cannot read the minds of Hamas, I am going to go out on a limb and say that the reason Palestine does not have a standing army with all that that implies is NOT for lack of interest on the Palestinians part.

And lastly people are dying. I don't think anyone is playing at war. When there are corpses, the playing is most certainly over.

In fact, as there are people dying, maybe you do them all a gross disservice by spouting talking points and half thought out rhetoric that has no real bearing on reality. (though I am certain it si comforting to rant about how bad "They" are.) Regardless of how one feels about who's to blame or who is in the right, no one can honestly claim that Palestine and Israel were ever on anything even resembling equal footing.

And speaking of partisan conflicts I think one exchange summed it up nicely...

Reporter-"Isn’t it a dirty thing to use women’s baskets to carry bombs to kill innocent people?"
To which the official answers, "And you? Doesn’t it seem even dirtier to you to drop napalm bombs on defenseless villages with thousands of innocent victims? It would be a lot easier for us if we had planes. Give us your bombers, and we’ll give you our baskets."

[frylock]

28. yeah -- they should climb aboard their US supplied jets and gunships like the israelis..

fight like a real man!

[HelenWheels]

31. US backing

Maybe if the US would give the Palistinians the same money and weapons they give Israel they would wear uniforms and be able to fight like the "brave" Israelis, i.e. in fighter jets and with tanks. If it weren't for the US, Israel would have nothing. The US has been holding up the Israelis since the inception of their country.

[HeraldSquare212]

21. Honest question: is there any area of Gaza that is not densely populated?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. Averages are often misleading, this is no different

There are farms in Gaza, what we would call suburbs, some light industrial, and areas of very high density.

[booley]

26. that seems misleading as well

Here in Saint Louis one can go from city to suburbs to farms in a few minutes.

And Gaza is only twice the size of D.C.

So I am thinking for all practical purposes, it's all densly populated. Not sure an acre of "light industry" counts as much when there's a whole bunch of apartments nearby.

Besides which, if they had a lot of farms, then why would a blockade on food as they have had have caused such problems for them such as it did?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. Part of it is what is grown

There was some heart wrenching stories awhile back about how some Gazan farmers had raised strawberries for export and were prevented from doing do by the blockade.

http://english.pnn.ps/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3322&Itemid=31
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/27/7930

[booley]

33. I can believe that

But if there is so much farmland then why would the palestinians have run of food so fast when Gaza was first blockaded.

I am not saying there is no farmland. I am saying it's probably not like in the US where you can have farms and nothing else for miles around.

[azurnoir]

27. So averages are misleading lets clarify then

Gaza's area is 360 sq km that is roughly 224 sq mi of that about 29% is arable that is 66 sq mi there is very little room from population variances here some but not much

[ProgressiveMuslim]

23. In other words: Next up on the bloodbath countdown: Hospitals! Schools! Mosques!

[EFerrari]

30. And as Netanyahu's nephew pointed out this morning on Democracy Now!

The IDF hides smack in the middle of Tel Aviv.

Go look at Israeli cities and check out how many potential "military targets" there are there.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/12/31/israeli_lawmaker_and_conscientious_objector_nephew

[booley]

34. that whole area is tiny

Israel is a tiny country. And Gaza is only a small fraction of that.

[EFerrari]

35. Yes. That's very true. n/t

[Scurrilous]

36. Gaza hospital director: Israel lying

Gaza doctors slam 'crazy' Shin Bet charges that hospitals in Strip used as Hamas hideouts

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3648421,00.html

<snip>

"Doctors at Gaza's Shifa hospital say they are outraged by Israeli charges that the medical facility has been used as a Hamas hideout.

The charges, made by Shin Bet Director Yuval Diskin earlier in the day, were dismissed by doctors as "nonsense," "complete lies," "crazy," and "an attempt to score political points."

Diskin, who briefed the cabinet Wednesday, told ministers that Hamas sustained grave blows and that many of its members were hiding in hospitals, with some dressed as doctors and nurses.

Shifa Hospital Director Khaled Hassan told Ynet that Diskin's remarks were a political statement by a general who in the future expects to join the political establishment.

"We are dealing with lies of a person who is trying to be Israel's future leader," he said. "I just hope that Diskin is not attempting to lay the groundwork for an inhumane attack on hospitals. That would be complete madness."

However, the hospital director admitted that he has no way to monitor those who enter or exit the hospital.

"If someone arrives to visit wounded relatives, I don't care about his organizational affiliation," he said. "I don't mean to prevent anyone from coming for a visit. But to say that they're hiding here? Media teams and Red Cross representatives freely walk around here. If there were activists here, they would have photographed them by now. If Diskin has proof, he should show it."