The Outline for Peace - Bernard Weiner

[StudsT]

It's been clear for decades what the outlines of a just peace might look like and what each side would have to do to get there:

1. Both sides would have to abandon the "I'm the true victim" and "you started it" loops. Each side has some history on its side, each side has behaved abominably, each side has some justice in its arguments. Both sides would have to stipulate, so to speak, to these recognitions and vow not to get bogged down in whose claim is the more righteous but stick to how to make living together in the same region workable and mutually beneficial.
   
   
2. Israel would have to return to its pre-1967 borders, fully end its occupation and control of the West Bank and Gaza, abandon its settlements on Palestinian land and make sure no new ones are allowed to intrude into the new viable Palestine state, which Israel would officially recognize. (In terms of Gaza and the West Bank, Israel would cease its ruthless policy of "a hundred eyes for an eye" overkill, and constant humiliation of the Palestinians by engaging in way-over-the-top violence that constantly reminds them of their utter powerlessness.
   
   
3. The Palestinians (both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority or, better yet, Hamas inside the Palestinian Authority) would have to officially recognize the de facto State of Israel and its right to exist within secure borders. No more rockets, no more suicide bombers inside Israel, no more calling for Israel's destruction, etc.
   
   
4. Realizing that there are crazy fanatics on each side, acting out of religious zealotry or ultranationalist urgings, both sides would have to agree to crack down on those extremists and not let occasional militant violence interfere with the peace process as it unfolds and in living together after the peace treaty has been signed.
   
   
5. Jerusalem, prized for historical and religious reasons by both sides (and by Christians as well), would become an international city, administered by the U.N. and/or a tri-religious civic council agreed to by all.
   
   
6. If Israel will not permit the "right of return" of Palestinians forced off their lands by the original establishment of the Jewish state or by the Separation Wall, they will pay fair compensation for the land. Perhaps Arab nations separately and the Arab League collectively can aid in this regard as well.
   
   
7. Treaties would be worked out regarding the travel rights of Palestinian workers inside Israel, the fair allocation of precious water resources, sharing technological developments, etc.
   

much more...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x414139

Having just come across CrisisPapers's post in "Editorials & Other Articles", I thought it appropriate to bring over here as well... I felt this was an excellent idea on a roadmap for peace.

what does DU think? :shrug:

StudsT

BTW: Thanks for sharing CrisisPapers :toast:

[HeraldSquare212]

1. I think right of return has to be included.

Otherwise there's just continuing justification for grievances and attacks.

[aranthus]

4. How could that ever work?

Agreeing to the right of return (assuming it actually exists, which I don't believe) would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state. What could you or anyone give the Israelis that would convince them to commit national suicide? Don't you think that to the Israelis, the call for the right of return sounds like a call for war to the death against them?

[HeraldSquare212]

5. Israel is not constitutionally a Jewish state.

I don't think anything short of a right of return can work, otherwise you're simply saying that anyone is allowed to kick anyone else off their land and pay them compensation and it's OK. I'd be pissed off if that happened to me.

[Vegasaurus]

8. Sure, but it has happened all the time

The same number of Jews were kicked off their lands in Arab countries, and were never compensated for their losses.

Are you pissed off for them?

If you are, you are in a minority.

Right of return is the one area that Israeli agree will never happen.

Doesn't matter what the poltiical affiliation, no Israeli Jew will support right of return, as it would destroy Israel as a Jewish state.

Since that is a sticking point for the Palestinians, it holds up any possible peace process.

[Recursion]

7. Ummm

Agreeing to the right of return (assuming it actually exists, which I don't believe) would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state.

And? A country's maintaining its current ethnic characteristics perpetually is something I'm supposed to care about? I also don't care about anti-immigrant Americans who want the US to retain its "white" character.

[aranthus]

12. Really?

<And? A country's maintaining its current ethnic characteristics perpetually is something I'm supposed to care about? I also don't care about anti-immigrant Americans who want the US to retain its "white" character.>

Really?

Cause in another post to me today, you said:

"No, you're imagining my "desire" to de-legitimize the Jews. I'm all for their having a nation, too; but central Europe makes more sense, historically and morally, than the Levant does."

Seems I wasn't imagining anything at all. You aren't worth my time.

[Recursion]

13. Wow, that's a stretch

ignore all context, much?

[StudsT]

6. i agree that that issue must be addressed and there is definitely room for a compromise solution

of course there will always be some extremist who will never be satisfied be they will be a minority that the majority can certainly deal with (as all societies must)

StudsT

[Blue Meany]

11. I think the "Israel's Right to Exist" is a shorthand

for not accepting the right to return, because the return of Palestinians would mean that Israel would cease to be a Jewish state and would eliminate the rationale for its existence.

[LeftishBrit]

2. Sounds good.

The problem as always will be getting all the sides to agree on a proposal! But I think a fair solution would look something like this.

'If Israel will not permit the "right of return" of Palestinians forced off their lands by the original establishment of the Jewish state or by the Separation Wall, they will pay fair compensation for the land. Perhaps Arab nations separately and the Arab League collectively can aid in this regard as well.'

Sadly, the Arab states' unwillingness to help in this respect is IMO one of the factors that has contributed to prolonging the conflict. I am not sure it will change - but perhaps the international community in general may help.

'Both sides would have to abandon the "I'm the true victim" and "you started it" loops. Each side has some history on its side, each side has behaved abominably, each side has some justice in its arguments. Both sides would have to stipulate, so to speak, to these recognitions and vow not to get bogged down in whose claim is the more righteous but stick to how to make living together in the same region workable and mutually beneficial.'

HEAR HEAR!

[StudsT]

3. but thats part of the beauty of it... all sides don't need to agree, just the majority =)

don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

and the blaming/finger-pointing e.g. the 'Arabs' blah, blah, blah or the 'Israelis blah, blah, blah needs to be ignored (like he said and you highlight/applaud as it is an infinite loop that doesn't contribute anything to progress.

boy, can i dream about hearing this kinda language/thought coming out of the new white house =)

StudsT

[Madam Mossfern]

9. Have you ever heard of the term "Pollyanna?"

There is so much deep seated hate between the Israelis and the Palestinians, that no matter what logical solution
is presented to them, it won't work. It will take generation upon generation to eradicate that hate. The only way to do that is in small pockets of communities that are comprised of both Palestinians and Israelis who do get along, eventually leading to a ONE state solution.

[StudsT]

10. that's why there must be an intermediary, for the longest time the U.S. claimed that role

but has proven to this point to not be impartial which is required.

maybe Obama's admin will be different.

StudsT