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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 10:47 PM
Original message
Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields
Edited on Mon Jan-12-09 10:48 PM by shira
IICC - This study examines how Hamas and the other terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip make extensive use of Palestinian civilians as human shields.

Full document in PDF format

Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
at the Israel Intelligence Heritage & Commemoration Center (IICC)

Overview

1. This study examines how Hamas and the other terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip make extensive use of Palestinian civilians as human shields. It shows how the terrorist organizations constructed a vast military infrastructure in the Gaza Strip, including a large arsenal of rocket and mortar shells used to target the southern Israeli population (in 2001-2008 more than 8,000 rockets and mortar shell were fired into populated Israeli areas). The terrorists' military infrastructure was hidden in and around civilian homes and dispersed to locations scattered around the Gaza Strip, home to an estimated more than 1.4 million people, one of the most densely populated areas on earth.

2. The calculated, cynical use of the civilian population as human shields is intended to decrease the vulnerability of Hamas and the other Palestinian terrorist organizations by affording them a kind of immunity from the IDF's counterterrorism activities, since they are aware that Israel avoids harming the civilian population insofar as is possible. It is also intended to make it possible for Hamas and the other terrorist organizations to make political-propaganda gains in the battle for hearts and minds by representing Israel as operating against innocent civilians. The terrorist organizations' doctrine of using human shields was inspired by Hezbollah's tactics in Lebanon and by the lessons they learned from the terrorist campaign they have been waging against Israel since 2000.

<snip>

ii) Rockets and mortar shells are fired at Israeli population centers from inside or close to private Palestinian residences and sometimes from educational institutions or mosques. The rocket launching squads deliberately situate their launchers near houses to camouflage themselves and to protect themselves from the IDF. The attacks carried out by the terrorists often disrupt the daily lives of the Palestinian population and endanger them. Sometimes rockets explode as they are being prepared for firing, and in some instances homemade Qassam rockets (whose technical quality is low) fall in the Gaza Strip instead of Israel and kill and wound local civilians.

<snip>

iv) Civilians, including women and children, are deliberately used as human shields to protect terrorist operatives whose houses the organizations fear may be attacked by the IDF: During Operation Cast Lead and in many instances in the past, the terrorist organizations have exploited IDF warnings to civilians to evacuate their residences before attacks to send children and adolescents to the relevant locations, knowing the IDF will not deliberately attack civilians. Hamas prime minister Ismail Haniya and many other Hamas leaders (such as Nizar Rayyan, killed in Operation Cast Lead) have openly boasted about their use of their human shield tactics.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Terror+Groups/Hamas_Exploitation_Civilians_Human_Shields.htm

======================

Recommended: Available PDF file for download.

Very thorough and well-documented study completed one week into the current Operation Cast Lead.

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Arrowhead2k1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Straight from the Israeli government.
Are you mother-fucking kidding us?

Trash...
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Putting you on ignore. Give it a fucking rest. n/t
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thewiseguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Why the fuck are you on a discussion board?
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coruscate Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
65. No one believed Bush's military people
Why should we believe Olmert's genocide brigade?
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Its better than some of the other sources dressed up to look like news
found in many other places. Read it and review it based on what has been confirmed independently. Then, and only then should you render judgment. Any less is agenda driven bias and intellectually dishonest.
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Arrowhead2k1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. How is it better exactly?
The Israeli government has been caught telling so many lies and half-truths in the past, it's not even funny.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Clearly documented authorship, something you don't see all that often
Every government lies to show its side of the story. USSR, USA, Russia, Ukraine, Iran (before and after the invasion), Iraq, UK, Canada, even Iceland. None of their statements should be taken at face value, which is exactly what I suggested about this document. It should be read and evaluated against known facts.

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. A companion thread from earlier today
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Lets just skip posting news articles, lets go straight to the source of the spin!
Next you'll be posting articles from the White House about their victories against terror. Keep it up, you are only diminishing your cause.
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. The approach is somewhat refreshing, actually
Cuts the middle-man out of the spin control business (although in this economy, that middle-man really does need the job to put food on his family!).

At least it's not the relatively anonymous opinion of some dufus at LittleGreenFootballs, like one of the last offerings from Shira was.
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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for posting this
If Cuba was lobbing rockets at neighborhoods in Miami I doubt we would be wringing our hands about a "proportional response". Kids and old people getting killed are horrible to watch, but the people of Gaza elected Hamas on a platform of making war on Israel. This conflict was guaranteed the day they threw out a government that was moving on a path to peace and elected a terrorist group to lead them.
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Interesting analogy
Edited on Mon Jan-12-09 11:05 PM by Alamuti Lotus
If it isn't obvious yet, when I use the term "interesting" it's usually an upscale euphemism for "stupid"..

Terrorist gangs based in Miami have quite often 'lobbed rockets' (in a variety of forms) at Cuba -- what should their response be? I don't recall seeing Castro's armada laying waste to South Florida (although I would not be opposed to that).

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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. OK, Jamaica
The point is the same.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Actually
The people of Gaza elected Hamas because the Fatah government was corrupt as Karl Rove.

If we put a wall around Cuba, didn't let anyone in or out, cut off their power when we felt like it, didn't allow humanitarian aid or aid workers into the country to feed the over 50% of the population who are severely starved, and allowed each Cuban 1/7 days of the week with water-- yeah I could understand them lobbing rockets at us. Not to mention if the US stole Cubans farmland in a society where agriculture is one of the only jobs around (leading to more than 50% unemployment rate in Gaza and the West Bank). Neither side is innocent, nor righteous but whatever you believe about Israel's justifications, at least see that this will keep no one more safe in the long run. Violence breeds extremism. If they kill every member of Hamas, there will be new ones tomorrow, eager to kill the Israeli's who murdered their family members or the like. This is just ensuring the circle of violence anew and that neocons continue to rule Israel.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Palestinians elected Hamas because Hamas was actually doing something to make their lives better,
unlike the totally corrupt Fatah.

But go ahead and believe all the propaganda, if you actually wanted to have a clue, you'd have one by now.

sw
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Who then pulled a coup in Gaza and started to purge its opponents like Stalin did
Hamas actually lost the popular vote but due to some rules rigging Fatah did to help itself, ended up with the most seats (some great irony there). Abbas remained the president of the PA. Hamas has refused to participate in elections since. Hamas is not recognized as a legitimate government by anyone, the PA is. Fatah is no angel, but Hamas is certainly not any better.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. A bit off on the history, good sir
Hamas did not win the majority, you are correct, but won the most seats regardless. They still had Abbas in the lead, and they tried to work with him to negotiate with Israel. Israel refused to talk with this Fatah-led Hamas government, saying basically the same thing Bush taught them to: we do not negotiate with terrorists. After a bloody civil war with Fatah after the unity government failed to ascertain any type of workable skeleton for a peace agreement, they banished the Abbas to the West Bank (where even though the oppression may not be as bad for the Palestinians, it is still just as wrong).
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. How so...
- We agree about the election?
- Was there not an armed coup in Gaza?
- Were Fatah members not rounded up and imprisoned or killed?
- Has Hamas not allowed elections in Gaza since?
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Good catch, perhaps I used the wrong word there.
I was trying to provide a little more information after your initial points to illustrate that their are two sides to every coin. The armed coup came because Hamas say no reason for the corrupt Fatah to have any say over their governing, and they were standing in the way on several points (such as law enforcement of the clans who ran Gaza under Fatah lax rule). Fatah members got the short end of the stick because their side lost the civil war, no real surprises there. The point about elections ever since is moot, considering they would handily win them. They have already done more good for Palestinian lives than Fatah ever did, although they endangered them all (which, if nothing else, is a loaded statement about how terrible the Fatah government was at just about everything except enriching themselves).
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Oh bullshit. Hamas won the majority of seats in the Palestinian Assembly.
You've got your history so twisted it's ridiculous. Abbas remained president because it wasn't a presidential election -- just like every two years there are elections for Congress in the U.S., but not presidential elections.

As in other countries around the world (unlike the U.S.), the Palestinian legislative body is composed of multiple parties, Hamas won a majority in free and fair elections as attested to by numerous international observers.

The U.S. and Israel couldn't stand the fact that Hamas won a majority -- in an election that the U.S. pushed for, NOT Hamas -- so they simply decided to ignore the democratic will of the Palestinian electorate.

The U.S. and Israel then reneged on all previously agreed upon arrangements for distributing revenues to the Palestinians -- collected as taxes FROM the Palestinians, but completely controlled by Israel.

I think you don't know shit about what's been going on over there. All you have is the pro-Israel propaganda bullshit that's been drummed into everyone's head who doesn't bother to actually pay attention to what's been really going down.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. And I said they did...
However they did not win a majority of the votes cast
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. In the parliamentary elections, it is plurality to win.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. A bit more about that coup and the Palestinian elections
The coup was not as one sided as is being promoted

Gen. Dayton admits US is helping Fatah

As violence raged this week in the Gaza Strip between Hamas and Fatah, US officials stressed the importance of American efforts to bolster forces loyal to the latter and said further help was necessary.

Congress recently allowed $59 million to be used to further Dayton's efforts at training the presidential guard of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah.
The money, however, didn't go through the normal appropriation process, as the White House took previously approved funds and simply reallocated them.
Dayton pushed the case for further US assistance to the Palestinian guard, despite months of efforts on the ground that have seemed to have little effect against the well-disciplined and well-supplied Hamas.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/J...

He admits that the US was/is "helping" Fatah/PA to fight Hamas in Gaza note this article is fro May of 2007, at best both sides were planning this well in advance.

The June escalation was triggered by Hamas’s conviction that the PA’s Presidential Guard, which US Security Coordinator Lieutenant General Keith Dayton had helped build up to 3,500 men since August 2006, was being positioned to take control of Gaza. The timing was significant. Abbas, Haniyeh and Hamas Politburo chief Khaled Meshaal, normally based in Damascus, had signed a Saudi-brokered power-sharing deal on 9 February 2007, and formed a national unity government in mid-March. In response, the build-up of the Presidential Guard was accelerated. The US had arranged the transfer of 2,000 rifles and ammunition from Egypt in late December 2006, and in late April the Israeli government transferred another 375; the US committed $59 million for training and non-lethal equipment, and covertly persuaded Arab allies to fund the purchase of further weapons. Jordan and Egypt hosted at least two battalions for training, one of which was deployed into Gaza as clashes resumed in mid-May. With half its parliamentary bloc and its cabinet ministers in the West Bank in Israeli custody since the abduction of Israeli Corporal Gilad Shalit by Palestinian militants on 28 June 2006, Hamas concluded that its remaining government base in Gaza was in danger and launched what in effect was a pre-emptive coup.

http://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic-comments/pas...

about those Palestinian elections Hamas has refused to participate in

Early presidential and parliamentary election to the Palestinian National Authority will be held as soon as the split between the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip under PM Ismail Haniyeh and the Fatah-controlled West Bank under PM Salam Fayyad and President Mahmoud Abbas has been overcome, according to statements by Abbas.<1> The elections would be due by 2009 (presidential) and 2010 (legislative) if not held early,<2> although reports in December 2008 suggested that both elections would be held in April 2009.<3>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Palestinian_general_election

There have not been any for Hamas not to participate in howevr it seems that Israel is preparing Gaza for them right now
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
31. The definitive piece on the coup:
The Gaza Bombshell, as reported in Vanity Fair.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804

Hamas' actions in 2006 are best described as a counter-coup.

The US and Israel actually backed Fatah' attempt to stage a coup to overturn the results of internationally recognized free and fair elections.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
51. "meet the new boss...same as the old boss"
Hamas was the unknown evil that represented change from Arafats regime.


elections due for them also this year.
So

Now they'll get on their knees and pray
they won't get fooled again.


://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5yymadwxj8
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm not buyin the right wing militarist line from Israel any more than I buy the right wing
militarist line from my own fucking corrupt government.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. But you do seem to be buying into the Hamas line in large amounts.
Question more of what is said...by all sides. Read the sources and doubt all claims. It much more challenging but then knowing the truth when you vet things is a very cool result.

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thewiseguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. "Knowing the truth when you vet things is a very cool result"
The truth that compelled you to join DU right when the conflict started? :eyes:
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. It could be called a project or a watch or something n/t
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I've been on DU since 2001, and paying attention to the I/P situation the whole time.
I've been hearing the pro-Israel line for my whole life. I've quite gotten over it. There would be no Hamas if not for the cupidity of an Israel that refuses to acknowledge the blood debt of its establishment as a state.

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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. Wow.
No extremism there.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
53. If "extremism" is speaking the truth of state terrorism and condemning it, then
guilty as charged.

sw
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. But I'm guessing you'll believe Hamas
and whatever pearls of "truth" they come up with.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. I don't have to "believe Hamas", I can see the truth with my own eyes.
Edited on Tue Jan-13-09 08:15 PM by scarletwoman
Israel continually engages in state terrorism against the indigenous population, and has done so for decades longer than Hamas existed.

sw
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
35. Neither do I. But I also don't buy the right wing militarist line from Hamas.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
52. Hamas is what happens when you cut people off from all reasonable consideration of their very real
grievances.

Never forget that it was Israel and the U.S. that aided and abetted the formation of Hamas as a counter to the secular PLO and their nationalist agenda.

Just like when the U.S. aided and abetted the Muhajadeen in Afghanistan to counter the Soviets.

These Frankenstein's children born of dreams of Colonial/Imperialist dominance and power have a tendency of biting their creators in the butt.

sw
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
29. Using human shields is bad
Since absolutely no one else had this response to the OP.

I am amazed at how many people jump to praise Hamas. Even for those who think Israel should use only diplomacy and no military force, it's just bizarre how people love Hamas.

Oh please, Hamas, can I have your baby?

It's like praising Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy for taking an interest in young people.

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. it's worse than that
Edited on Tue Jan-13-09 06:31 AM by shira
it's people ALWAYS thinking the worst of Israel's intentions while ALWAYS giving Hamas the benefit of the doubt.

no amount of fact can turn off their hate.

and they don't like it when they KNOW that we know they're haters, whose pretense to care about Palestinians gives them the excuse they need to express their most hostile hatred of all that is Israel.
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Tripmann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #30
42. Quick question....
Are you serious? Do you really think accusing fellow DUers of hating Israel is going to further your arguement?

Its directly from the same stable as dissenting the bush admin means you hate america.

Rediculous
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #29
57. Are you hallucinating? Who here "loves Hamas"?
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
32. Does Hamas "force" the IDF to blind children with Phosphorus. Fucking shameless!
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Do you really want someone
to list the atrocities committed by Hamas. I don't think that's a "contest" you really want to get started.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. Hamas has blinded Israeli children using phosphorus weapons? Really?
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-09 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #41
55. Nah - just blows them up
So much more humane. And on a progressive board we have someone defending Hamas - thought I'd never see the day.
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Yes.
Hamas forced Israel to respond militarily by continuing and increasing its rocket and missile attacks on Israeli civilians. In military action, using smoke to make forces less visible is standard, and phosphorus is one of the common technologies. Israel isn't targeting civilians with it, but in war it's not entirely controllable what happens, so it's always possible civilians will get injured.
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delad Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. it's legal but it is truly fucking atrocious. Not surprised you're defending it
just like dropping millions of cluster munitions over southern lebanon. That was perfectly legal but it is a sign of the moral depths that Israel is willing to explore to collectively punish the subhumans who infest the region.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
37. This is no different than other government (Hamas, Iran) information clearing houses. This is not
any more valid.

Shameful.
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HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
38. Yawn.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. How is it a yawn?
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HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Who cares about think tank garbage? We all have eyes to see.
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BunkerHill24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
43. Garbage...n/t
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
45. Calling this for the total bullshit that it is. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
46. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. follow up to the 'educated' job outlook
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b32piz5fMk8&feature=related


don't worry,
it's fake and doesn't happen anywhere in the world.

name one place where this could possibly be happening and for what reasons?

:sarcasm:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #47
60. LOL. Porn for right wing nutcases.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Charming video
:puke:
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. I didn't say watch the whole thing. The Hillary soundbyte saves five minutes compressing the point
I saw an article late last week about an EU country wanting to evacuate Gaza children.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUKL8335448

Wonder what happened to that offer and what those children could teach the people of that EU country.

That would make for an interesting follow up story to report after a year of resettlement or observation.

For better or worse, how would they assimilate.
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delad Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Mrs Clinton, that AIPAC shill? n/t
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-09 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
56. muslims riot in norway, use their children as human shields ( video,) judge for yourself
Immigrate but ...do not assimilate = problems
LL video;
muslims riot in norway, use their children as human shields

recent mass protest in oslo, norway led to rioting, many stores were vandalized, cars were destroyed, and police were attacked and injured.

the rioters initially paint blood on their children and put them in the front lines of the protest against police, then from the back of the protest, the men start lobbing projectiles, including metal objects and small explosives.

the children are caught in the crossfire between the adult males who attack the police from behind the children, and the police who attempt to respond, many children become panicked and start to cry



http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f14_1231973325



In order to give your children a brighter future,it's best to leave some traditions behind in the land you fled .

jmo
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. That video shows children with their mothers. I went to demonstrations with my mother, too.
Do you not realize that people can click on that link and see for themselves?

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. LOL no you your only supposed to read the narrative
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 02:23 AM by azurnoir
and you know you can not trust your lying eyes btw your absolutely right and it looked to me like the Moms were trying to get the kids out of there oh and small explosives like the stuff we use on the 4th of July?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Human shields.
lol

Yeah, you always pick up your little human shield to get it out of the way of cops and other foot traffic.

Wait till I tell my mother that I was her human shield. :rofl:
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. Oh Oh I think I used one or two also n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
58. Is the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs a reputable news source?
Does this follow I/P posting guidelines for reputable news source?
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coruscate Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #58
64. No more reputable than Bush himself
And you notice that the cheerleaders here mostly stay out of the threads where the facts don't uphold their fascist / racist view of the situation.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. did you read the pdf report?
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 06:29 AM by shira
Why not judge the report based on its merits, instead of dismissing it out of hand as pure propaganda?

Check this one out:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mitchell-bard/video-reveals-that-a-lack_b_156565.html

Now for pop quiz.

Read that article please, and view the youtube video. Is that not proof for you that after 60 years of war, Palestinians still expect to go out on rooftops of IAF targeted terror strongholds, and EXPECT not to be shot by Israeli pilots, KNOWING that Israel acts upon a clear set of morals and ethics? Why else would Palestinians volunteer with kids to go up on rooftops within 5 minutes of an imminent air attack, if they didn't realize Israel would act with scruples?

Let's see if you pass or fail this simple pop quiz......whether you stay out of this thread from now on because the "facts don't uphold your fascist / racist view of the situation".

You're on the clock.
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Tripmann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #66
72. I think we've all seen..
..the IDFs 'morals and values' these last two weeks. And thats just from the pittance of reporting we've had due to israels refusal to let journalists into gaza.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. I don't trust a country's Ministry of Foreign Affairs to be objective.
Too Orwellian for me.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
67. Hamas launches first phosphorus rocket at Negev; no injuries reported
Palestinian militants fired a phosphorus rocket at Israel for the first time yesterday, one of 17 fired into Israel as fighting entered its 19th day. The phosphorus rocket exploded in an open field in the western Negev. No injuries or damage were reported.

Also yesterday, three rockets were fired at Israel from southern Lebanon, the second time in a week the north has come under attack. No injuries were reported.

In Gaza operations, seven Israel Defense Forces soldiers were wounded yesterday, one of them seriously, as Palestinian militants fired anti-tank missiles at Israeli paratroopers just outside Gaza City.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055561.html
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. It seems that Israel keeps on reporting missiles fired that did no damage
while Palestinians are dying in the streets.

The Israelis who are dying are doing so in operations in Palestinian territory and they aren't civilians but military.

This looks like a war crime to me. As Bush irrevocably lost me, so too has Israel.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Seems you don't know much.
Maybe because there aren't enough dead Israelis you don't care? :shrug:


"As Bush irrevocably lost me, so too has Israel." Boy, that says a lot!
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. So sue me. I am entitled to my opinion.
I think that Israel is committing suicide anyway. Eventually there will be more Arabs than Jews in Israel. They choose their own destiny.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. Hey, you are right, you are entitled to your opinion.
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 06:23 AM by Behind the Aegis
Despite my avatar, I have no desire to sue you. (A joke)

"They choose their own destiny."

Edit: Wrong response to wrong poster.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #67
73. How did this OP get put into a running thread?
I don't get this I/P forum. Weird.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. I don't get it either, sent an alert saying doesn't fall within I/P posting guidelines,unless op-ed?
Maybe it is an op-ed piece?
New Threads

* New threads must be based on a recently-published news item or op-ed piece. They may not be based on editorial cartoons or photographs. Citations and references should include a link to the original source. Exceptions will be allowed if, based on prior approval, the moderators feel a thread is appropriate.
* All threads must be based on material originally published no more than 3 weeks ago. The "clock" does not restart if an article is republished. Exceptions will be allowed, if based on prior approval, the moderators feel a thread is appropriate.
* The subject heading for threads must contain the title of the source article. The only exception is when you must shorten long titles or to make the subject of the article more clear.
* Editorializations and comments are to be saved for the Message body and must be separate and distinct from the text of the article.
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
76. A report from the israeli government that conveniently ignores that
israeli troops are using the exact same tactics as those they are demonizing. As reported by amnesty international.
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