Why We Should Oppose Both the Israeli Army and Hamas

[tekisui]

Source: Worker's Liberty

Author:
Daniel Randall

Members of the AWL attended recent demonstration in Sheffield against carrying placards that said, on one side “end the siege of Gaza” and, on the other, “no to the IDF, no to Hamas.” We had to have an extremely heated argument with the organisers of the demonstration merely in order to be permitted to stay: we were told that, as many people on the demo were “sympathetic” to Hamas, our presence would be “contentious and divisive.”

Several angry “leftists” also berated us for “equating Israel with the Palestinians.” The incapability of these individuals to develop a politics that rise above cowboys and Indians schemas is more than a little depressing and, in fact, the reactionary and offensive equations are theirs, not ours. Hamas is a highly organised politico-military party funded by Iranian capitalism that represents a particular tendency within Palestinian politics; the word “Hamas” is not interchangeable for the entire Palestinian people and it no more “represents” them than any government of democratically-elected reactionaries has “represented” its people throughout history.

For the record, comrades, expressing opposition to both the IDF and Hamas does not mean equating the two. It does not mean that we believe the forces are equally weighted or that the conflict in Gaza is in any way symmetrical. It clearly does not mean that we think Hamas's rocket attacks against Israeli civilians have been as devastating as Israel's assault on Gaza; this is manifestly not the case.

But just as most human beings are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time, one hopes that most activists are capable of expressing more than one idea simultaneously without having to make strict equivalences. For us, Clausewitz's old adage still rings true and war is still the continuation of politics by other, that is forcible, means. We therefore oppose Israel's war in Gaza because it is the continuation of the regional-imperialist, colonial politics of the Israeli ruling-class.

But we also oppose Hamas's war against Israel because it is the continuation of its anti-Semitic and theocratic politics and its project to destroy the Israeli-Jewish nation. The fact that Hamas is incapable of wreaking the same level of slaughter that Israel has delivered in Gaza does not make it any less worthy of opposition. And the fact that the two sides are not equally weighted or direct equivalents of one another should not prevent us from expressing our opposition to both in the same sentence. The fact that Hamas is the party democratically elected to power in Gaza is no more a reason to silence our opposition to them than the fact that Israel's government is also democratically elected is a reason not to oppose their actions.

more: http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2009/01/13/why-we-should-oppose-both-israeli-army-and-hamas

[Clovis Sangrail]

1. whenever people refer to Hamas as anti-semitic they lose me

the Palestinians are semitic

[cali]

2. whenever people bring up the tired and lame crap about the word anti-semitism

being wrong to indicate animus toward Jews, they lose me. Here's why: Yes, the Palestinians are semites, but the word anti-semitism, coined by Wilhelm Marr approximately 150 years ago, to denote anti-Jewish sentiment, has always and only meant hostility toward Jews. And there are lots of words that are seemingly paradoxical: A driveway isn't where you drive and a parkway isn't where you park, for example. There are hundreds more.

[Clovis Sangrail]

6. "to indicate animus towards Jews" ??

Being anti Israel doesn't equate to anti Jew and anti Jewish neo nazis aren't hiding around every corner... so get over yourself.

I fucking HATE Israel because they're a brutal quasi theocracy.
Detesting their atrocities doesn't require - or indicate - any religious intolerance.

Something that is insanely annoying is that Israel (and people such as yourself) equate dislike of their state with anti Jewish sentiment as a tactic to invalidate detractors.
"look at how anti-Jew they are... just like those neo-nazis"

Israel has gotten a LOT of mileage out of intentionally blurring the lines between religion, race, and state - and it's complete bullshit.

As for the term semite... I guess I'm just a fool for using the definition of the word.
:eyes:

[cali]

8. say what?

duh. of course being anti-Israel or anti-Zionism doesn't mean being anti-semitic. where did I say it did? Oh, that's right, I said nothing of the sort, genius. I just hoped to help you in your ignorance and explain something to you factually.

Cut the bullshit. Nothing I wrote indicated anything you concluded about me. And all your leaps of logic and the conclusions you arrived at, are wrong.

I can't say I'm supportive of Israel either. But unlike you, I'm not a hater. I detest Israel's government, not her people- just as I detested the bushco gov't- not the U.S. I'm strongly opposed to the occupation and brutalization of the Palestinian people under the occupation, not to mention the massacre in Gaza. Just how does that position make me reflexively pro-Israel?

As for being a fool. You said it. You just got the reason why wrong.

Pathetic and hateful post- indicating just what you are.

[Clovis Sangrail]

10. where?

how about here:
whenever people bring up the tired and lame crap about the word anti-semitism being wrong to indicate animus toward Jews, they lose me

so were you being dishonest or stupid by saying that you said "nothing of the sort" ?
:eyes:

[cali]

12. Are you confused, dear?

What does my hewing to a correct definition of the word anti-semitism have to do with Israel? And in case, you didn't get it, I was mocking your phrasing with that sentence.

[aranthus]

17. Respectfully, being anti-Israel's existence is per se antisemitism.

Or call it Jew hatred or any other pejorative you want to use. If you were to declare that Italy had no right to exist and if you supported people who intended Italy's destruction, which would involve the killing of millions of Italians, then I think Italians would say that you were anti-Italian. If you oppose Israeli government policies, that's different. But recognize that Israel's enemies want Israel to be destroyed. That's what the war is about. You may disagree with the way Israel is fighting it, but to support Israel's enemies is to support hostility to the Jewish people, as surely as supporting the destruction of the United States would be considered anti-American.

[EFerrari]

18. This post is a good example of collapsing the difference between

a state and a people, between a power structure like the Israeli government and the Jewish people.

[Emit]

20. By your logic, would Gandhi have been considered antisemitic?

Gandhi on Jews & Middle-East
A Non-Violent Look at Conflict & Violence

Article Written on November 20, 1938
Published in Harijan on November 26, 1938
This Web Page Last Updated: January 11,2009

by Mohandas K. Gandhi

Several letters have been received by me asking me to declare my views about the Arab-Jew question in Palestine and the persecution of the Jews in Germany. It is not without hesitation that I venture to offer my views on this very difficult question.

~snip~

But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood?

Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home.

The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French. If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled? Or do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the national home affords a colorable justification for the German expulsion of the Jews.

~snip~

And now a word to the Jews in Palestine. I have no doubt that they are going about it the wrong way. The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab heart. The same God rules the Arab heart, who rules the Jewish heart. They can offer satyagraha in front of the Arabs and offer themselves to be shot or thrown in to the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them. They will find the world opinion in the their favor in their religious aspiration. There are hundreds of ways of reasoning with the Arabs, if they will only discard the help of the British bayonet. As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them.

I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.

Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every country is their home including Palestine, not by aggression but by loving service. A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish Contribution to Civilization by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have done to enrich the word's Literature, art, music, drama, science, medicine, agriculture, etc. Given the will, the Jews can refuse to be treated as the outcaste of the West, to be despised or patronized. He can command the attention and respect of the world by being man, the chosen creation of God, instead of being man who is fast sinking to the brute and forsaken by God. They can add to their many contributions the surpassing contribution of non-violent action.

http://www.kamat.com/mmgandhi/mideast.htm

[aranthus]

40. Not necessarily.

Ghandhi was speaking before Israel was created. If he said that today, it might be different. If he supported those who would violently destroy Israel, then it would definitely be antisemitism.

[Recursion]

22. That's just ridiculous

A) Recognizing the political reality that it would be/was a bad idea to create a state has nothing to do with hating or not hating people of that nationality (c.f. still-non-existant Kurdistan).

B)
if you supported people who intended Italy's destruction, which would involve the killing of millions of Italians

and

But recognize that Israel's enemies want Israel to be destroyed

You keep confusing the end of the political entity "Israel" with the death of its citizens. Millions of people weren't suddenly created when Italy became a state in the 19th century; they wouldn't suddenly die if they went back to being small republics.

[aranthus]

39. No. What's ridiculous

is your dishonest attempt to suggest that Hamas, the PLO and the surrounding Arab states have tried to do away with Israel in any other way than by killing its people.

[GoesTo11]

14. maybe antisemitic is just too polite a word

left over from a less direct era.

How's about calling it good old fashioned Jew-hating?

[LeftishBrit]

3. Antisemitic is a term created to mean 'anti-Jewish'-

specifically anti-Jewish in a racial/ethnic, not just religious, sense. Someone who is anti-Jewish in a religiously bigoted sense may accept a Jew who converts to Christianity or other prevailing religion; someone who is antisemitic is hostile to anyone of Jewish descent.

The term was invented by promoters of antisemitism, to describe their own views.

It may not be technically accurate (strictly speaking, 'semitic' refers to a group of languages, not a race or nationality, in any case); but it's the commonly understood term.

[Clovis Sangrail]

7. semite refers to the people

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semite
Main Entry:
Sem·ite
1 a: a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b: a descendant of these peoples
2: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semite
Sem⋅ite
   /ˈsɛmaɪt or, especially Brit., ˈsimaɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a member of any of various ancient and modern peoples originating in southwestern Asia, including the Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.

[cali]

9. your dissembling is lame.

no one is arguing about the definition of the word semite. The argument is over the word anti-semite- which, sorry, is not the same word. Now word meanings change with time, and maybe this one will too, but as of now and for the last 125 years or so, it's meant only one thing. Why this upsets you so, is beyond me.

an·ti–Sem·i·tism
Pronunciation: \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\
Function: noun
Date: 1882
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
— an·ti–Se·mit·ic \-sə-ˈmi-tik\ adjective
— an·ti–Sem·ite \-ˈse-ˌmīt\ noun
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-semitic

anti-Semitic (-sə mit′ik)

adjective

having or showing prejudice against Jews
discriminating against or persecuting Jews
of or caused by such prejudice or hostility
Also written antisemitic an′ti·semit′ic
Etymology: < anti-Semitism < Ger Antisemitismus, coined (1879) by Wilhelm Marr, Ger writer

Note Some writers and scholars prefer the alternate form antisemitic because they contend that the form anti-Semitic suggests being opposed to (the) Semites, a term that could include Arabs and other peoples, when in fact the word means “anti-Jewish.”
http://www.yourdictionary.com/anti-semitic

an·ti-Se·mit·ic


adjective

Definition:

prejudiced against Jewish people: hating or discriminating against Jews

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861586057/anti-semitic.html

In fact, you won't find a single dictionary in the English language that defines anti-semitism any differently than the definitions I posted. Furthermore, you won't find any scholars or etymologist who define it differently. Don't like it? Work toward changing its meaning.

[Clovis Sangrail]

11. silly me.. I forgot that prepending 'anti' or 'pro' doesn't count here /nt

[cali]

13. Silly you indeed.

you don't seem to know the first thing about etymology. Ah well, ignorance seems to be something to proud of in your book.

[Clovis Sangrail]

25. and you seem unclear on the concept of grammer

You should consider why you selectively choose to recognize definitions.
Obviously your mind is set but a dose of introspection might do you good.

[cali]

28. bwahahahaha. learn to spell the word grammar

before you lecture others on it. too funny in a totally pathetic little way. Education might have done you good, but your mind is way too tightly shut for any help now.

[Clovis Sangrail]

36. grammR nd spEling rNT te sAme tinG /nt

[leftynyc]

16. You really should stop digging

You starting fucking up in the first post and just keep on sounding more and more moronic. It's kinda hard to watch.

[Clovis Sangrail]

24. because I take the word and the use of 'anti' as they are defined?

gimme a break

This is exactly the kind of self righteous crap that perpetuates the problems in the middle east.
:eyes:

[cali]

29. bwahahahaha.

scramble away.

:rofl:

[Clovis Sangrail]

37. right...

some close minded "I'm the real progressive" has me 'scrambling away'

[conscious evolution]

15. Technically,that is

the correct definition of semite.
But anti-semite is a completely different word with a differant definition.

Remember-Language evolves.

[LeftishBrit]

4. Interesting article; I agree with his main points

[Vegasaurus]

5. Hamas wrested Gaza away in a coup

not very democratic.

Nor is their compelte lack of civil rights, including freedom of speech, press and religion, the lack of human rights (particularly for women) and the overall oppression for the people.

Not to mention Hamas's stealing of their aid, refusing to stop militancy, and goading a more powerful nation into war.

A vote does not a democracy make.

[HeraldSquare212]

30. Do I recall reading that 700 Israelis have been arrested for protesting the war?

[azurnoir]

19. Both IDF and Hamas should be opposed

need to be opposed the Palestinian s survival depends on this sadly I do not see it happening at least at a governmental level

[Vegasaurus]

21. The deeply sad part

is that the Palestinians have no protection from leaders who are willing to sacrifice them for political goals.

Israel cannot protect the Palestinians from their own malevolent leadership.

The Israeli politicians may be bad, but Israeli citizens are not living in squalid poverty and misery.

It is more imperative for the Palestinian leadership to improve, and soon.

[azurnoir]

23. Cut that crocodile tears please

and save the bullshit for your target audience that is not me

[Vegasaurus]

26. Cut the ****

I hate Hamas, not the civilian population.

All loss of life bothers me.

Don't you dare start putting words in my mouth or attributing opinions to me that I don't have.

I have always been clear that I have the utmost disdain for the nihilists of Hamas, not the innocent people.

[Clovis Sangrail]

27. don't you know?

the I/P forum is all about attributing opinions to others

[HeraldSquare212]

31. I disagree, at least until there's an alternative to Hamas

otherwise the Palestinians will be left to the devices of those who have their own interests at heart.

[azurnoir]

32. like Fatah?

there are many parties that come under the PA umbrella and Hamas and Fatah are just two of them, what the Palestinians need are better candidates such as either one of the Barghouti's either Marwan or Mustapha

[HeraldSquare212]

33. I really don't know enough about it. But people voted for Hamas over Fatah, so that must say

something about Fatah.

[azurnoir]

38. The word about Fatah is corruption

and at the time Hamas started opening soup kitchens, schools, clinics, and doing some infrastructure work that had been ignored for years in both the West Bank and Gaza, this is part of why Israel shut down most these in the West Bank last summer, also Hezbollah used similar means in Southern Lebanon and why most of the world except the US, Canada, Israel and I think the Netherlands considers only Hezbollah's military wing to be a terrorist organization but not the political wing

[LeftishBrit]

34. 'Left to the devices of those who have their own interests at heart'...

You think that doesn't describe Hamas too?

[HeraldSquare212]

35. I'd trust them over any outsider, that's for sure.