Why should the Left save Arafat?

[drdon326]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1066799675046&p=1006953079865

The Left's knee-jerk reaction is to automatically oppose the idea of killing Arafat. That just proves how much the political division between Right and Left obscures clear vision. In fact, killing Arafat would serve the interests of the Left and actually run counter to the interests of the Right. Because those who want peace, those who want to return territories, should be working for a situation in which there is someone to whom they can be returned, someone with whom it is possible to make peace.

AT THE same time, those who do not believe in peace should be praying that Arafat lives forever.
Some say that killing Arafat would be immoral. Is that really the case? Isn't there something immoral about eliminating those who carry out the terror attacks while not touching the person who is dispatching the suicide bombers?

Is it justified to kill the messengers of terror without killing the person sending them? Wouldn't it be more moral to kill the person inciting and instigating the terror, the person who is sending people to commit suicide – before eliminating those who are incited and whose mission it is to blow themselves up?

If a democratic government were involved, it might be said that we do not have the right to interfere, that the decision regarding Arafat's fate and future should be left to his citizens. However, we are talking about a brutal dictatorship, one where no one dares to say what he really thinks, to say nothing of actually doing anything.

============================-=====================================

interesting perspective.

[Herschel]

1. Interesting

Very much so.

[dudeness]

2. drdon

if a prima facie case was produced to put Arafat before a judge and jury on charges of crimes against humanity ..I would support that event..at some stage in this conflict the concept of law and order must prevail..to otherwise assasinate Arafat only justifies continued atrocities by both sides..might i add if arafat is murdered those that commit such a crime must stand trial..

[drdon326]

4. hmmm

i'm not necessarily for or against this action.....
there are many ways of looking at this.

Clearly he has the blood of innocents, imho, and he is terrorist
as well as an obstacle to peace.

This article makes the case that maybe the left and right has
it all wrong.

[dudeness]

7. point taken drdon

it was presumptous of me to assume you endorse the articles view..my apologies

[drdon326]

10. No problem....

Do you think,as the article makes the case, that the
left should want to eliminate his "nobel-ness" ??

[Darranar]

11. Forgive me for interrupting, but...

I don't.

The Left should admit to themselves that Arafat is certainly an obstacle to a just peace in the region. The Left should not hesitate to admit this. However, the Left should also stand against a military solution to the problem.

[rini]

36. For the most part

I agree. The only thing the military should be involved in is his capture to be put on trial for:

1.theft (from the Palestinians)
2. murder of innocent Israelis
3. murder of innocent Americans
4. inciting terrorism

Of course whose laws will prevail and where will the trial take place?

[Darranar]

37. He shouldn't be apprehended just yet...

Once peace is in place, criminals from both sides should be tried, but right now what is deserved will not prove conductive to peace.

[bluesoul]

38. Justice

If Arafat is to be put on trial then so will Sharon have to be for all his past and present...

[Darranar]

39. Of course.

n/t

[rini]

40. I fail to understand the analogy

Sharon has been put on trial and found innocent. Can you name specific crimes for which he has not been tried? Not generalities, specifics.

Can you honestly say if Sharon is gone and Arafat remains peace will happen? What about the reverse? With Arafat gone and Sharon remaining will peace have a chance?

All the above mean nothing unless the Palestinian people refuse to let Arafat continue his thieving murderous ways. So perhaps this is a meaningless discussion.

[bluesoul]

41. Sharon

Sharon found innocent?!? Even the Kahane commission found him indirectly responsible for the Sabra and Shatila massacres. Now you're even questioning Sharon and his crimes as a general in the past? So you are defending him, no wonder..

[rini]

42. no, the past has been adjudicated

I am interested in the present.

[Jack Rabbit]

43. Sharon and the Kahane Commission

Rather than write a long post as I'm getting ready to march in San Francisco today, I'll just dig up one from about a week ago that covers the topic. The Kahane Commission found that Sharon bore personal responsibility for the Sabra and Shatila massacres.

The commission had no judicial authority. In no way could this be considered a trial or even an indictment. However, attempts to indict Sharon for war crimes arising out of the Sabra and Shatila massacres have cited this document as part of the case against him.

Ms. Rini's statement is incorrect. Sharon has never been tried for his acts. It is doubtful at this point that he will be. It is therefore up to each individual to make his own judgment.

[dudeness]

15. drdon

the left encompasses a wide range of views on many issues..there exists not a generic view on politics..philosophy or the I/P conflict for that matter..however, i consider myself a leftist and for that reason my brand of politics would lead down the path of peaceful resolution..an abandonment of atrocities by both parties immediately and negotiations to commence ..this i believe can be achieved..

[Darranar]

17. I think he's speaking...

of the Israeli Left.

[dudeness]

18. i have little knowledge of the Israeli left

pardon my ignorance..

[Darranar]

20. Meaning...

the poltical groups in Israel who want to end the occupation and stop extra-judicial assasinations and the like. They have a clear position on the conflict, unlike the American Left.

[dudeness]

21. well.. then i would suscribe to those propositions..

and that would align with those on the left here in Australia..regarding the I/P conflict..thanks darranar

[drdon326]

22. Good post....

As a liberal, who used to think I was a leftist before I
came here, I believe fighting against religious extremism,
brutal dictatorships and terrorist fascism......

but what do I know.lol

[Darranar]

23. So do I...

our differences lie solely on exactly how to do so.

[dudeness]

24. sometimes words can convey a different meaning

to that intended..I , in no way meant to be patronising..

[drdon326]

25. I didnt take it as patronizing....

no problem

[Darranar]

3. Arafat is an obstacle to peace...

however, killing him will do nothing but create MORE obstacles to peace. Magnification of the problem isn't needed.

[drdon326]

5. Forgive me...

Why do you believe "Arafat is an obstacle to peace?"

[Darranar]

8. There are lots of reasons...

Because he tolerates terrorism;

Because he does little to stop anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli bigotry appearing in official PA news sources;

Because he has been reluctant to actively negotiate for peace;

Because he undermines moderates who might actually pose a hope for peace;

Because he brutalizes his own people;

Because he, very simply, only cares about his own power and not about the welfare of his people.

[The Magistrate]

9. An Excellent Summing Up, My Friend

[drdon326]

12. Can I quote you on that ??

.

[Darranar]

13. What for?

Use in a later argument?

I don't mind, no.

[drdon326]

14. yes...

.

[Darranar]

16. Do what you want with it.

[The Magistrate]

19. A Pleasure To See You Two Gentlemen In Agreement Here

The calendar has been marked in bright pen....

[drdon326]

27. And may I say.....

always a pleasure to see you,Sir....as always.

[Darranar]

28. Indeed, it is.

[Jack Rabbit]

31. I also agree with Darranar

The article is indeed a very interesting perspective.

My feeling is that Arafat has become irrelevant. I don't know if he could control the militias if he wanted to. He has seemed more interested in recent years with milking the PA cow.

It's incredibly disappointing. He's a man who has strived to establish a homeland for his people, but why? So he could steal from it? He has lived decades knowing that many -- Israelis and Palestininas alike -- would like to kill him. And now he acts like he can take it all with him.

For all this, he's still the living symbol of Palestinian nationalism. We can only hope for a better leader to follow him. Arafat has always been a better symbol than a leader. He's failed time and again, yet he's still there, still what the people cling to in lieu of leadership.

The best argument against killing him concerns what passions such an act would unleash, not how indespensible he is. Arafat is a pathetic old man.

[Darranar]

32. He isn't irrelevant...

as long as he's capable of undermining moderates.

That is the biggest problem with Arafat.

[Jack Rabbit]

33. Good point

However, I think he gets help from Sharon in that respect. We could argue all day whether Abu Mazen was a good man or not. The truth is that he was set up to be the fall guy. Arafat and Sharon both wanted the road map to fail for their own reasons, so get a "Prime Minister" with no independent political base to whom nobody would have to listen. That assured its failure.

Strong Palestinian moderates are a group in short supply. And you're right, Arafat has done much, too much, to see to it that they are.

[Darranar]

34. We completely agree about Sharon...

Sharon (backed by bush) and Arafat caused Abbas's fall. I am not one to blame everything on the Palestinian side.

Arafat did so by undermining his every move; Sharon did so by refusing to make real concessions.

[Jack Rabbit]

35. Exactly

We're in complete agreement on the failure of the Road Map.

[dudeness]

6. perhaps both Arafat and Sharon

should be ousted..If relations between these two men are irreparable..then changes of leadership on both sides may need to occur..in the interests of world peace..however, when one side is bargaining from a position of power then the chances of a satisfactory outcome diminish..

[dudeness]

26. alas..shopping calls

thank you all for allowing me to indulge you with my views..

[Forkboy]

29. I have no problem with Arafat being out of the picture

I just think that Israel making this decision will have a negative effect for both sides.I also have serious qualms with extra-judicial killings regardless of which country chooses to undertake.

Arafat is a true obstacle to peace,one of many in the Mideast.

[Darranar]

30. I agree completely, Forkboy!

[IndianaGreen]

44. So you quote a rightwing newpaper owned by Conrad Black

to define what the Left is, or what the Left ought to do. Isn't that the same as quoting Faux News or Rush Limbaugh to define what antiwar or pro-choice activism consists of?