Abbas in limbo

[ProgressiveMuslim]

Ramallah's silence on Israel's campaign of slaughter in Gaza is turning back on Fatah with a vengeance, writes Khaled Amayreh

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Fatah movement in the West Bank is increasingly facing a political and moral predicament stemming for its perceived lackadaisical stance vis-à-vis the Israeli onslaught against the Gaza Strip described by some as genocidal. The movement, which is the backbone of the US-backed Palestinian Authority (PA), condemned the massive Israeli blitzkrieg from the beginning. However, a number of prominent Fatah leaders in Ramallah have also been blaming Hamas and gloating over its ordeal. Some Fatah leaders openly voiced readiness to "receive Gaza at any time" if and when Hamas was defeated.

This tone has apparently boomeranged on Fatah, prompting many ordinary Palestinians and Arabs to accuse the PA of effectively conniving with Israel against Hamas and preparing plans to re-conquer the Gaza Strip by force if the ongoing Israeli blitz succeeds in toppling the Hamas regime. The official voiced the hope that Palestinians in the Gaza Strip would revolt against Hamas when the Israeli army ended its blitz. So far, there have been no signs that Gazans are about to turn against Hamas despite intensive Israeli efforts to affect and expedite such an outcome.

(snip)

Fatah's ambivalence towards the Israeli blitz on Gaza is further complicated by the growing realisation on the part of most Palestinians that the peace process with Israel is fraudulent, under whose rubric the Palestinian cause is being liquidated, with or without the knowledge of the Palestinian leadership.

Meanwhile, it is uncertain how the PA will deal with the expiration of Mahmoud Abbas's term in office, which occurred 9 January. Hamas has already stopped referring to Abbas as "President Abbas", with Hamas spokespersons and media referring to him as simply "Mr Abbas".

The PA leader is also facing a problem with regard to legislative elections. Hamas is likely to have earned considerable popularity as a result of the Israeli onslaught in Gaza, although it is premature to draw definitive conclusions. Aside from Hamas, with the peace process with Israel having proven bankrupt, Abbas and his followers face an uphill struggle.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/930/re2.htm

[ProgressiveMuslim]

1. This is a must-read for all those who believe "moderate" Fatah is the answer...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. This is an Op-Ed piece out of a site that makes WND and INN look good

This is not a credible source for anything but invective.

UN, Egypt, Saudi, and the EU all support the PA taking over and cleaning up the mess. Abbas may well not win the next election, but for now he is has lead.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

3. Your ignorance is astounding.

Al Ahram is the English language weekly out of Cairo.

You might not like it, but it reflects the views of teh Arab world.

Then again, I don't imagine that there is any Arab POV that you would respect.

[oberliner]

5. Is it independent of the Egyptian government?

Or does the Egyptian Ministry of Information control what content gets published and what does not?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

7. Couldn't tell you officially. They public a wide variety of PsOV.

Here's a link to the editorial board if you recognize any names.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/board.htm

They are certainly sometimes critical of Mubarak and official Egyptian policy.

[oberliner]

10. Thanks for the info

Wikipedia claims that its content is controlled by Egypt but it has no source to support that claim.

[bemildred]

They don't piss off the Egyptian government.

They sometimes carry Egyptian government views. But there is some variety of opinion. I find them useful as a source for Egyptian views and opinions, news, and wider argument among Arab society.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

31. I think it's a pretty interesting reflection of Arab opinion in English.

[bemildred]

33. Yes, one of several I like.

Also Gulf Times, Daily Star, Kuwait Times for news. The Saudi Press tends to be too "regimented", if you see what I mean, nobody wants to risk pissing off the King. Same somewhat applies to Iran and Syrian press. Turkish media can be useful. I used to like some of the sites in Pakistan, but they have gone off line or declined as things went to hell there. It would be nice to see Iraq media develop. The Egyptian government is not really efficient or interested enough to do a good job of oppressing anyone, unless they feel threatened.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. No yours is...

Al Ahram is a small time shop with little news and mostly opinion and interpretations. A lot like WND, INN, etc. There are others in the area just like it. Some support Abbas, others do not. None of them rise above the journalistic standard of blogs.

[azurnoir]

4. Do they ?

Report: EU to lift sanctions on Hamas if Palestinian unity gov't formed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x250819

and despite being told over and over you still pretend that Fatah Hamas and the PA are all separate things, why?

[oberliner]

6. You don't think Fatah and Hamas are separate entities?

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying.

[azurnoir]

8. Perhaps you did

Fatah and Hamas are political parties that come under the PA or PNA umbrella and that has been explained to the poster in just those terms

[oberliner]

9. Didn't Hamas split with the PA in June of 2007?

They each have their own Prime Minister.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. The elected prime minister is Haniyeh. Abbas was president until Jan 9.

His term has actually expired.

[oberliner]

12. But do you think that Hamas is part of the PA right now?

That is what I am disputing.

And what about Fayyad?

Wafa and Ma'an News identify Fayyad as the PM, not Haniyeh.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

30. I think the Palestinian Authority has actually come undone with the coup attempt in

Gaza. Wouldn't you agree?

[oberliner]

36. Is there an entity that you would refer to as the PA?

I agree that the events of June 2007 make it difficult to ascertain exactly what constitutes the PA, but it seems that most sources indicate that the Abbas government is it. But I guess it is just semantics. There is whatever you want to call the governing body of Gaza and whatever you want to call the governing body in the West Bank.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

49. I don't think there is currently a body that one can say accurately reflects the will of the

Palestinian people. Whether it's called PA or Soltha or whatever... I think the Abbas/Fayyad regime is illegitimate. We all know Fatah engineered the coup attempt.

I would prefer to begin anew with elections. now that Gaza is in rubble it will be a long time before that happens, even IF the US and Israel would ever allow it, which is highly doubtful. Like any good attorney, they will never allow an election of which they can't control the outcome.

So... I know you're big into official stuff begin followed, like the rules of the EU and all, but in this case, "PA" means squat.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. The rest of the world recognizes the PA and Abbas for now, Hamas is recognized by no one

The pragmatic approach will be some sort of new elections for everything within the next 6-12 months under the UN.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. Who refused to participate in new elections? Fatah or Hamas

[ProgressiveMuslim]

29. WTF are you talking about?

You are so ignorant you don't even realize who doesn't want elections! I assure you, it's not Hamas, because they would win in a landslide right now!

FYI, presidential elections are due NOW. Legislative elections due in 2010.

What is the source of your misinformation?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. Prior to hostilites breaking out Hamas refused to support elections

and blocked them in Gaza. I never stated that the assembly was up for election at this time.

Who would win now is conjecture. Hamas is also being held responsible for causing many of the probelms. I expect Abbas would lose but that another secularist would win over Hamas. Maybe even your guy.

Most probably course is some sort of all up election in the next year to form some sort of unity government. I expect Hamas will oppose that violently and then be banned.

[Idealism]

42. Wrong.

Abbas has yet to agree to new elections due to Gaza being 'in crisis.' Hamas never 'refused' elections, although that is common wisdom among western media outlets. Abbas personally said elections will resume shortly after Gaza and West Bank officials have their houses in order.

Early presidential and parliamentary election to the Palestinian National Authority will be held as soon as the split between the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip under PM Ismail Haniyeh and the Fatah-controlled West Bank under PM Salam Fayyad and President Mahmoud Abbas has been overcome, according to statements by Abbas.<1> The elections would be due by 2009 (presidential) and 2010 (legislative) if not held early,<2> although reports in December 2008 suggested that both elections would be held in April 2009.<3>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Palestinian_general_election

[ProgressiveMuslim]

45. Hardcore doesn't have much use for the facts. nt

[azurnoir]

13. No like Lebanon and Israel I believe

they have both President and Prime Minister Abbas is President and Haniyeh is Prime MInister

[oberliner]

14. What about Fayyad?

Here is an article from the Palestinian newspaper, Wafa:

RAMALLAH, January 12, 2009 (WAFA)- The Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad called, Monday, for acceptance of the Egyptian Initiative without any delay, to save our people from an impending catastrophe and to prevent the loss of more lives.

http://english.wafa.ps/?action=detail&id=12517

This indicates that at least some Palestinians consider Fayyad and not Haniyeh to be their PM.

[azurnoir]

15. Fayyad was declared after the fact I have read nothing that says

Hamas is no longer part of the PA.

edited to add as to Hamas still being part of the PA is that not part of why Israel wanted Hamas taken out prior to PA elections in case they would win again?

[oberliner]

16. Abbas dismissed Haniyeh after the coup and appointed a new government

They split with one another in June 2007 - Haniyeh has his goverment and Abbas has his.

There are calls for reconciliation, but at this point, Hamas is separate from the PA.

[azurnoir]

17. That is an opinion not fact

Abbas did this from the safety of the West Bank and under Israeli cover.

[oberliner]

18. It is not an opinion that they split and formed two separate governing entities

One is free to hold whatever opinions one wants about how that happened, but it is a fact that in June of 2007, they split, Abbas named a new government and Hamas was not part of it.

There is one government in control of the West Bank and an entirely separate government in control of Gaza.

[azurnoir]

22. But that Hamas is no longer part of the PA is an opinion n/t

[azurnoir]

19. Hamas is still listed as being part of the PA or PNA

The Palestinian National Authority (PNA or PA; Arabic: السلطة الوطنية الفلسطينية‎ As-Sulṭa Al-Waṭaniyyah Al-Filasṭīniyyah) is the administrative organization established to govern parts of the Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The following organizations, listed in alphabetic order, have taken part in recent elections inside the Palestinian National Authority:

* Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Al-Jabhah al-Dimuqratiyah Li-Tahrir Filastin)
* Fatah or Liberation Movement of Palestine (Harakat al-Tahrâr al-Filistini)
* Hamas or Islamic Resistance Movement (Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyah)
* Palestine Democratic Union (al-Ittihad al-Dimuqrati al-Filastini, FiDA)
* Palestinian National Initiative (al-Mubadara al-Wataniya al-Filistiniyya)
* Palestinian People's Party (Hizb al-Sha'b al-Filastini)
* Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Al-Jabhah al-sha'abiyah Li-Tahrir Filastin)

October 2006 polls have shown that Fatah and Hamas have equal strength. <3>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority

the article hs been much edited perhaps that part go "over looked"

[Vegasaurus]

20. Are you denying that there are two separate governments

with no unity whatsoever?

That is some kind of alternate reality you live in.

[azurnoir]

23. There are two separate areas governed by separate parties

so yes there are for now two separate governments but Hamas is still part of the PA

[Vegasaurus]

27. Do you see any unity between the two?

Fatah was forced out of Gaza by a Hamas bloody coup.

Hamas is clamped down on in the WB.

One side would be willing to make peace, and the other won't.

I see no unity at all, and without unity in the Palestinian political arena, Israel has no partner.

[oberliner]

21. Governance of the Gaza Strip

With Hamas being in control of the Gaza Strip and Fatah in control of the West Bank, there are de facto two Palestinian governments, both considering themselves to be the legitimate Palestinian National Authority government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governance_of_the_Gaza_Strip

My only claim is that there are two separate governing entities at this point.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. PA is based in the West Bank and is the only internationally recognized one

[azurnoir]

28. That could soon change

and despie the fact the Hamas government is not recognized Hamas is still part of the PA, or at least it is stated as such in the wiki article despite many edits, unless of course the wiki article has been edited again very very recently

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. EU, UN, Egypt etc are lining up behind the PA. However, new elections are overdue

in no small part due to Hamas.

At a practical level, I expect that Hamas will be removed in Gaza and some sort of functional secular structure will replace it during the heavy rebuilding phase. Some where in that period elections will be held. I do not expect Abbas to win, but a secular leader will, maybe even PM's favorite. Hamas may well be outlawed or suppressed.

Fatah and Abbas are not quislings, despite PM's hyperbole. The politics there are much more subtle and complex than that. They certainly allowed the IDF to gut Hamas. Then again, many of the neighboring nations thought gutting Hamas was a good idea and allowed it to happen.

At this point I think there is some hope for the future.
- The shooting and rockets will stop
- The influx of the UN and NGOs will prevent what Hamas did to the Gazans from reoccurring
- Gaza will be rebuilt, better and brighter than it was before
It will take years but out this will come a more unified Palestinian nation with the maturity to coexist peacefully with Israel.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

35. So tell us who is going to be removing Hamas?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

39. I hope they are simply bypassed and not removed the way they took Gaza, at gunpoint

Its not clear what is left in terms of a civil government in Gaza. The relief trucks are distributing at this point without Hamas *help*.

I expect that the UN blue berets will show up shortly as will the PA. If Hamas shoots at them, they will be even more marginalized.

The Israeli invasion has created a lot of hard feelings, but that does not automatically turn into support for Hamas. Hamas did not win the popular vote, and it has only had military control of Gaza for a few years. They shot opposition. They killed non-muslims. They are not going to be regarded as many as the good guys in all of this.

I expect Abbas not to win the next election, but Hamas will be vanquished as well. Maybe even your guy will win.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

41. You are in la la land.

Firstly, Israel tried -- and failed -- to remove Hamas. You think Mohammad Dahlan can?

Secondly, there won't be elections because Hamas would take them in a landslide. You'll know that what I'm predicting is true when you see the PA/Israel/US block elections for one pretext or another.

Mark my words.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. So you are conceding that your bubba doesn't stand a chance?

When the UN and the NGOs roll in, Hamas will be marginalized. They will not be able to murder at will or launch rockets because they they want to annoy the "Little Satan", since it will place the NGOs in physical danger. A defacto or possibility dejure secular government will end up in place for day to day things. No more "holy weapons" for Hamas (that was a great quote).

Its way too early to say which way elections will go. 200+ signatures on a petition means nothing. I expect that Hamas will be unable to control itself and get violent, its clearly their preferred pattern (you can mark my words on that). Then they will be suppressed and may be banned from the unity elections and government. When the elections would be is still hard to tell, 9 months would be my guess, depending on how fast things calm down.

Take a deep breath and calm your emotions on this. Its going to be a long haul to make things better. Hamas is really part of the problem and needs to be removed and replaced by a responsible secular government. A government that uses moral suasion with the Israelis not one that attacks on its neighbor using the people of Gaza as human shields.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

44. Mark my words: no elections. Israel and the US won't take any more chances with

a population they can't control.

And what part of installing a puppet regime is "progressive?"

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. Then we shall have to see what comes

I see the UN and NGOs really taking charge. It will prevent Hamas from getting too stupid, but I doubt they can resist their propensity for violence and to use their "holy weapons".

The UN will also insist on elections when things are stable. I don't see that being a US or Israeli puppet regime. I see it as a true representation of the people. That is truly progress, and may prove to be progressive.

If you want to question what is progressive, islam by definition is not progressive.

[azurnoir]

37. Are they seems that could change

Report: EU to lift sanctions on Hamas if Palestinian unity gov't formed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x250819

I don't expect Egypt's stance to necessarily change, however the UN would fall in line with the EU in such circumstances

[ProgressiveProfessor]

38. A unity government may not include Hamas, have to see

[azurnoir]

47. If it does not include Hamas it isn't very unity it's unilateral n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

48. There are more parties than Hamas and Fatah. its not like the US with only two

Also if Hamas sticks to its characteristic violence it will take itself out of the process. Its not known for its self control.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

32. A definitive timeline of Hamas/Fatah split.

Palestinian Government Timeline Since January 2006
Date posted: July 05, 2007
By MIFTAH Send Article


On January 25th 2006, the Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, was successful in its attempt to become the leading party within the Palestinian Authority.

According to the Palestinian Centre for Policy and Survey Research, this victory went against all conceivable expectations. In three polls taken only weeks prior to the elections across the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, Fatah had shown that although their support was diminishing, it was still a substantial enough lead to repel any opposition.

Hamas (harakat al-muqawamah al islamiyyah) received 440,409 votes, a 44.5% of the electorate while their main rivals Fatah (harakat al-tahrir al-filastini), the Liberation Movement for Palestine, only managed 410,554 votes and a 41.43% of the electorate*. It was the first time in the 13 years since the Palestinian Authority’s inception that Fatah was not the dominant party.

On March 29th 2006, new Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh announced his Hamas dominated cabinet.

(*Information from the Central Election Commission)



President Mahmoud Abbas FATAH

Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh HAMAS

Foreign Minister Dr. Mahmoud al-Zahar HAMAS

Finance Minister Dr. Omar Abdul-Razeq HAMAS

(snip)

The ramifications of the Mecca Agreement: March 2007

In February 2007 Saudi King Abdullah hosted Hamas politburo chief, Khaled Mashal and Palestinian Authority President and Fatah leader, Mahmoud Abbas in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. The aim of the meeting was to come up with a solution to end the infighting that had resumed and intensified between the two factions.

After a few days of deliberation, Mashal and Abbas agreed to form a unity government which would attempt to bring the two groups together through cooperation and would establish a common Palestinian policy. The leaders also hoped that this sign of unity would compel the Western powers to release funds frozen after Hamas assumed power in March 2006. The Quartet (UN, EU, US and Russia) had failed to associate with a party that did not recognize Israel’s right to exist, while the United States and Europe both included Hamas on their list of terrorist organizations.

On 17th March 2007, Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh announced the national unity cabinet.



President Mahmoud Abbas FATAH

Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh HAMAS

Deputy Prime Minister Azzam al-Ahmed FATAH

Finance Minister Salam Fayyad THIRD WAY

Foreign Minster Ziad Abu Amr INDEPENDENT

Interior Minister Talab al-Qawasmi INDEPENDENT

Education Minister Nasser Eddin al-Shaer HAMAS

Information Minister Mustafa al-Barghouthi Palestinian National Initiative

(snip)

Unified government dissolved and emergency government installed by PA President Abbas on 17th June 2007 following Gaza infighting.

The unity government proved ineffective in preventing the infighting between Fatah and Hamas and initially low level conflicts between the two groups gradually escalated from March to May into full blown confrontations.

During the latter stages of May, Interior Minister Talab al-Qawasmi, an individual respected by both Hamas and Fatah, frustrated at not being able to bridge the divide between the two groups, resigned.

On the 10th June, low level fighting quickly manifested into severe incursions as Hamas and Fatah transformed sporadic encounters into a violent five day war in Gaza. After a well organized and quick mobilization of forces across the whole of the Gaza Strip, Hamas went onto claim a decisive victory over their Fatah opponents with over a hundred Palestinians being killed in the fray. Hamas had completely taken control of the Strip and driven Fatah back to their stronghold in the West Bank. As a result, PA President Abbas dissolved the unity government and appointed former Finance Minister, Salam Fayyad, as Prime Minister. On 17th June, Salam Fayyad announced his ‘emergency cabinet’ to function for a period of 30 days.



President Mahmoud Abbas FATAH

Prime Minister, Finance, and Foreign Minister Salam Fayyad THIRD WAY

Interior and Civil Affairs Minister Abdel Razak Yehiyeh FATAH

Agricultural and Local Government Minister Ziad Bandak INDEPENDENT

Minister for Tourism and Woman Affairs Khouloud Daibes INDEPENDENT

Economic and Telecoms Minister Mohammed Hassouneh INDEPENDENT

Minister for Education and Culture Lamis al-Alami INDEPENDENT

Labour Minister Samir Abdullah INDEPENDENT

Health Minister Abdullah al-Murghi INDEPENDENT

Justice and Information Minister Riyad al-Malki INDEPENDENT

Religious and Social Affairs Minister Jamal Bawatneh INDEPENDENT

Minister for Transport Mashhour Abudaka INDEPENDENT

Minister for Prisoners, Youth and Sport Ashraf al-Ajrami INDEPENDENT


Hamas has so far failed to recognize this interim Palestinian Authority cabinet, considering themselves to be the legitimate, democratically elected body within the West Bank and Gaza.

The West Bank and Gaza are now governed by two completely different entities. The Fatah sponsored ‘emergency government’ of the Palestinian Authority, headed by Prime Minister Salam Fayyad holds the West Bank, while deposed Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh continues to maintain his own government in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip.

Unlike Palestinian Authority governments since January 2006, Israel and the Quartet have announced their willingness to work with the moderate West Bank ruling body of technocrats. Israel has already promised the release of Palestinian tax revenues, believed to be in the region of $350 million dollars and have also promised to release 250 Palestinian prisoners with ‘no blood on their hands’. These so-called gestures of goodwill are also aimed at consolidating the position of President Abbas in the West Bank.


http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=14189&CategoryId=4

Anyone wanting to know more about the violence between Hamas and Fatah should read:
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804

[Hippo_Tron]

51. Fatah and Hamas arguably hate each other more than either one hates Israel

IMO both of them are scum and consider the Palestinian people expendable in their struggle for control. Fatah just happens to be the scum that the United States and Israel like better.