Who will save the Palestinians?

[Vegasaurus]

Being one of the few groups entirely outside the process, Hamas was well-positioned to offer an alternative strategy towards independence.

Instead, in the same year that the PA was established, 1994, Hamas turned its focus towards the kind of spectacular violence that characterised the PLO a generation before.

This strategy achieved little besides strengthening Israel's matrix of control over the Territories (most recently by providing the rationale for the construction of the Separation Wall, most of which has been built inside the West Bank).

Aside from the moral and legal problems associated with such attacks - whether by rockets or suicide bombs - Hamas and other militant groups failed to understand that terrorism rarely succeeds unless the insurgency deploying it is already strong enough demographically, militarily and politically to defeat the occupier.

This situation held true in Algeria, Vietnam, and even Lebanon, but it has never existed in Palestine.

With the outbreak of the al-Aqsa intifada, Hamas's reliance on extreme violence - in its rhetoric as well as actions - overshadowed other forms of Palestinian resistance, giving Israel the necessary cover to deploy an even greater intensity of violence across the Territories.

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/war_on_gaza/2009/01/2009119102548942367.html

[Vegasaurus]

1. The current strategy isn't working

interesting and fairly balanced reading (assessing plenty of blame to the Israelis, but also to the Palestinians).

[subsuelo]

9. "terrorism rarely succeeds"

A point that the terrorists on both sides fail to understand

[Recursion]

11. And one that is not true despite being repeated many times

Terrorism has proven, over and over again, an effective way of ending occupations.

[notesdev]

2. Nobody will

If they don't save themselves, they will either provoke their own destruction or continue as they are. Nobody else cares about them... and until they start caring about themselves, nobody will have good reason to do so.

[sellitman]

3. Very few ever look at real cause of Palentinian misery.

They are their own worst enemy. Their people would have had their own State years ago.

[Vegasaurus]

4. But perhaps some people in the arab world are waking up

and seeing what many of us have seen for decades.

The Palestinians need to take responsibility for themselves.

Renounce terrorism.

Accept a peace agreement, and move on with building a state.

Only they can do that.

[Recursion]

13. Sigh. Fatah tried that

And only got more rapidly expanding settlements in return. Why would anybody want to try that again?

[Idealism]

5. I feel sorry for the Palestinians

They have been starved into desperation and left without hope. Every government they've ever had has been either corrupt, lawless vagabonds, or part terrorists. They deserve better.

On the other hand, I feel sorry for the Israeli's who died by suicide bombers and rocket attacks, because Israel could have prevented them. I feel sorry for the citizens of both sides that live in constant fear of their oppressors.

[pelsar]

6. wow...i admit i read it twice...

a damn good article from aljazeera.net

some many interesting and honest segments...but the most 'painful of all was when the hamas rep said:

"We know the violence doesn't work, but we don't know how to stop it," he said.

that sentence goes to the core of their society and the biggest problem. Whether or not israel helped format that society (which it did) the ultimate responsibility lies with the Palestinians themselves, its their people, their culture, they own it.

[PerfectSage]

7. Think holistically.

Israel and America are the occupiers of the middle east. The arab peoples are strong enough demographically, militarily and politically to defeat the occupier in the long run.

I'm not opptimistic at all. I think invading Gaza is another grand strategic clusterfuck on the long term road to defeat.

[Vegasaurus]

8. We'll see about that

I'd like to see them try to defeat all the western countries.

The fact is, their current methods are a failure.

Terrorism has wrought more misery.

I think it was an honest report from Al Jazeera.

Perhaps other people ought to take note of it.

[PerfectSage]

10. Yeah, we'll see. Your still not thinking holistically. You forgot the economy

Has it ever occured to you that Europe is getting fed up with US foreign policy? How many more straws will break Nato's back and the EU forms it's own defensive alliance.

Are you sure their current methods are a failure?

If you actually pay attention to Bin Laden in Nov 2004 you'd know his strategy for victory is to get the US involved in as many quagmires as possible till the US goes bankrupt.

The US has an unsustainable budget deficit, unsustainable trade deficit, unsustainable current account deficit and unsustainable military spending.
That is America is superpower in economic decline.
http://www.antiwar.com/utley/?articleid=14081


We'll know how successful he is in the long run if the US has a US dollar collapse and get's kicked out of the middle east via economic collapse. Gold sentiment is bullish.
http://www.decisionpoint.com/ChartSpotliteFiles/090109_gold.html

I think it was an honest report from Al Jazeera too. So when are the palestinians and Israeli's going to learn peace is superior to war?

But I still think it was really really dumb to invade Gaza.

[Vegasaurus]

14. I happen to agree with a lot of your analysis

Bin Laden got just what he wanted.

We are involved in two too many wars.

But the idea that the US will collapse and get kicked out of the middle east is a long shot.

And if you think the Arab dictatorships and theocracies are going to fill the vacuum, G-d help us all.

I'm not looking to live under Sharia law, thanks.

[PerfectSage]

15. The doomsday scenario for the us dollar: Trade war between China and the US. Both sides devalue

their currencies.

http://declineandfallofwesterncivilization.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-stimulus-might-lead-to-trade-war.html

In the current economic climate any country with a current account deficit is a candidate for financial collapse, including the US and muslim non petro states. I think Iran would be in that list even though it's a petro state.

Watch Afghanistan, I think the Taliban can win politically and militarily against NATO. They're currently collecting a "tax" on supply conveys moving through Pakistan. So how hard would it be to cut those suppply lines.

[Recursion]

12. You know, everyone asks where are the Palestinian Mandelas and MLKs

Fewer people ask where are the Israeli DeKlerks and Johnsons. I had hopes for Sharon being that (actually his parallels with DeKlerk are striking in some ways) but unfortunately we'll never be able to find out how he would have gone on.

[Vegasaurus]

16. What? So few responses?

And this is from Al Jazeera, so it should be taken as a reliable source, even from the haters.