Arabs: Israel ammo in Gaza had depleted uranium

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Arab nations accused Israel on Monday of blasting Gaza with ammunition containing depleted uranium and urged the International Atomic Energy Agency to investigate reports that traces of it had been found in victims of the shelling.

In a letter on behalf of Arab ambassadors accredited in Austria, Prince Mansour Al-Saoud, the Saudi Ambassador, expressed "our deep concern regarding the information ... that traces of depleted uranium have been found in Palestinian victims."

A final draft of the letter was made available to The Associated Press on Monday. It urgently requested IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei to "carry out a radiological and physical assessment in order to verify the presence of depleted uranium in the weaponry used by Israel ... in the Gaza Strip."

Officials at the Israeli mission to the IAEA said they were in no position to comment without having seen the letter.

IAEA spokeswoman Melissa Fleming confirmed receipt of the letter and said a response might be issued later in the day."

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[grannie4peace]

1. of course it did, also in iraq

[cboy4]

2. The thrugs who fired a stunning number of Grad missiles

at Israeli civilians are sure in P.R. mode, attempting to generate sympathy and understanding for their reign of terror.

Of I course, I see right through it.

[Duckhunter935]

6. Palestinian militants fired a phosphorus rocket

Must be used for a smokescreen :sarcasm:

Palestinian militants fired a phosphorus rocket at Israel for the first time yesterday, one of 17 fired into Israel as fighting entered its 19th day. The phosphorus rocket exploded in an open field in the western Negev. No injuries or damage were reported.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055561.html

[azurnoir]

12. Once again evidence other than someones say so?

and again if this were true Israel would not be withdrawing from Gaza but again do keep it up

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. I read about it earlier, do not recall the source. Seemed to be a one off round.

Qasaam kind of range vice Grad. WP is nasty to work with, must have been very tricky to put together (if it really happened)

[ProgressiveMuslim]

29. With your super-duper spy glasses? Your special powers?

[MarcMus]

3. Is Anyone Surprised, at Anyone Here?

The thing that surprises me is that people seem surprised. Israel is at war (they think so even if others don't) and now we're just waiting to see who wins so we can tell who the "bad guy" was.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Again, a little knowledge of ordnance would help here

Deep penetration weapons often contain heavy metals in the front end. Its not always DU. Those weapons are used by many nations and are not under the IAEA to investigate. Their use is not banned at this time and is not a prima facie war crime.

Anti armor rounds also use DU, but its not clear that the IDF would have used those in Gaza. They would be the wrong type for the targets there since they specialized to pierce the armor of tanks and other AFVs.

All of this has nothing to do with rumored DIME weapons which no one can show exist.

[Duckhunter935]

5. DIME weapons have been tested, unsure of use

They are designed to limit collateral damage, just as most people are bitching about excess collateral damage.

Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME) is uniquely suited for Low Collateral Damage. It produces lower pressure but increased impulse in the near field. Far Field damage is reduced (no frags/ impulse rolloff). The lethal footprint can be tuned to precision footprint. Strike Weapon Scaling Tests were completed in August of 2004), and full-scale Mk-82 tests were in the planning stage as of early 2005. DARPA funded RPG defense system feasibility tests in January 2005, which were successful.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/dime.htm

It would be an extreeme waste of expensive (DU) munitions to use against houses. They are designed for armour and it would be much cheaper just to use conventional HE.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/120.htm

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. Prototypes only to evaluated the technology as part of ongoing LCD research

never been acknowledged to have been taken to production by any nation.

Also they would me much more expensive than Mark 82 with a LGB kit. Why would they use it?

[Usrename]

8. What is wrong with you guys?

What makes you think anyone wants to save money here? Are you nuts?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. Cost is a factor in military operations and with the number of bombs the IAF was going thru

it most certainly would have been a consideration

[bushmeister0]

14. Bullshit!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. Why? You are asserting that the IAF would spend more than they had to in bombing Gaza?

New gen weapons like SDB and the yet to be proven to exist DIME cost more than Mk84 bombs. Noth would cause less damage and death than standard weapons. If the IAF is going for maximum effect, they would not use them.

The new gen weapons also cost more per bomb than Mk82s. Again, why would the IAF spend more than they had to.

[bushmeister0]

20. There are a whole lot of witnesses who say DIME do exist.

The few of the victims of Israel's little experiment, the ones still in one piece, not vaporized, are gruesome evidence of this.

And as far as expence, the US sold a $3 billion arms deal to Israeli earlier this year, why would they quibble about expense? Any time they want something we send it to them, no questions asked. Plus, Israel is also the world's second largest weapans dealer, cost is no obstical.

Pardon my Anglo-Saxon, but your're talking nonsense.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. It is still speculation at this point

No nation says they have deployed it, including the US. Nothing in Janes, Aviation Week, or credible other defense publication. The seminal source is the Dutch Doc and that is about it. His credibility took a hit recently, but he also has a lot combat wound experience. If its really being used, it will come out regardless, but for now its still unproven.

The critics of the IAF can not have it both ways on the DIME question. If all Israel cares about is blowing as many people anyway they can, there would be no reason to use DIME or anything else than dumb bombs. If they insist that DIME is being used, the indiscriminate bombing of civilians charge weakens considerably.

Cost is a serious issue in combat, particularly with a nation as small as Israel. They do the math before they take out a target. Minimum shekels to achieve the required Pk, even the US does it.

Israel did receive SDBs and says they have used them in Gaza. They paid for them.

[Usrename]

22. You really don't get it yet, do you?

They will use whatever costs more. That's the whole idea behind maximizing profits for the profiteers.

If we have killed a million people in Iraq for a trillion dollars, that's a million dollars per person. You don't do that by trying to SAVE money.

You all act as if it's their money that's being spent. By "their" I mean money belonging to the Military Industrial Complex.

It reminds me a lot of the folks who argued that the ultra high oil priced we were having was proof that we weren't in Iraq for the oil. As if a substantial savings was going to be voluntarily given away to everyone after they went to all that trouble to steal it all.

I'd rofl if it wasn't so desperately sad.

Why steal raman noodle when it's just as easy to steal fillet mignon?

[Recursion]

18. I've not yet heard a convincing military argument for using DU in Gaza

Hamas doesn't have tanks. Hamas doesn't have reinforced concrete bunkers. Why would Israel want to use expensive depleted uranium rounds whose only tactical advantage is taking out those two things?

[Usrename]

23. Unless the profits are higher for using depleted uranium.

Duh!

[Recursion]

24. Higher than what?

APFSDS/DU rounds are specifically tailored to kill tanks and reinforced concrete bunkers. They really have no other purpose. What would make Israel want to use them against relatively soft targets in Gaza that a much much cheaper HE/HESH round could take out?

[Usrename]

25. You honestly don't get it, do you?

This is for the most part a cost-plus business. The more money that gets spent the more product they sell and the more money they get to keep.

Who is this ficticous person or organization that you think is trying to save money? Is there somebody or some organization that is currently trying to prevent war proffiteering? I haven't heard of any.

Who's interest is served when money is saved? No one that I can think of. Why would you think anyone is trying to save money?

[Recursion]

28. But they're cheaper than Tungsten rounds

I'm sure somebody's cousin got a fat weapons deal, but the gunner at the scene isn't going to use a DU round in Gaza because it will not be as effective as an HE round

[bushmeister0]

13. Wrong again, Mr. Psy-Ops

AFP:

"Israel is testing a new 'extremely nasty' type of weapon in Gaza, two medics charged as they returned home to Norway Monday after spending 10 days working at a hospital in the war-torn Palestinian territory.

'There's a very strong suspicion I think that Gaza is now being used as a test laboratory for new weapons,' Mads Gilbert told reporters at Oslo's Gardermoen airport, commenting on the kinds of injuries he and his colleague Erik Fosse had seen while working at the Shifa Hospital in Gaza.

The two medics, who were sent into the war zone by the pro-Palestinian aid organisation NORWAC on December 31, said they had seen clear signs that Dense Inert Metal Explosives (DIME), an experimental kind of explosive, were being used in Gaza."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090112/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictgazanorwayweapons_newsmlmmd

democracynow.org:

"In addition to white phosphorous, medics and human rights groups are reporting they are seeing injuries distinctive of another controversial weapon. The munition, called DIME, for dense inert metal explosive, was designed to create a powerful blast over a small area. It was developed by the US Air Force in 2006. Those struck by the weapon who survive suffer severe mutilations and internal injuries. The weapon causes the tissue to be torn from the flesh. Unlike traditional munitions, there is said to be no shrapnel. Instead, particles of metals can be found in the bodies of those affected. Those residues have been found on victims in Gaza."

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/14/white_phosphorous_and_dense_inert_metal

NYT (Jan, 4):

"The casualties at Shifa on Sunday — 18 dead, hospital officials said, among a reported 30 around Gaza — were women, children and men who had been with children. One surgeon said that he had performed five amputations.

'I don’t know what kind of weapons Israel is using,' said a nurse, Ziad Abd al Jawwad, 41, who had been working 24 hours without a break. There is so much amputation."

It's amazing how devious these Hamas types are. To coordinate their propaganda so efficiently while they're hunkered down in some hospital basement. It's all a pack of lies!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. No one has acknowledged DIME as an operational weapon at this point

To claim that there are wounds distinctive for DIME is questionable since no one has ever seen an acknowledged one. At this point its conjecture and speculation.

Others have pointed out that that DIME would be more humane and have less collateral damage. My point is that at this time there is no evidence for DIME at all.

The seminal source for the claims of DIME is Mads Gilbert. He was in hospitals in Gaza.

[excess_3]

10. does DU have an advantage over tungsten?

if so, what is it?

[hack89]

11. Very cheap and plentiful. nt

[Recursion]

19. Cheaper, slightly less toxic NT

[Eugene]

26. IAEA to look into Gaza uranium ammunition claim (Reuters)

Source: Reuters

IAEA to look into Gaza uranium ammunition claim
20 Jan 2009 16:29:19 GMT
Source: Reuters
VIENNA, Jan 20 (Reuters) - The UN's nuclear
watchdog said on Tuesday it would look into a
claim by Vienna-based Arab ambassadors that
Israel may have used ammunition containing
depleted uranium in Gaza attacks.

The IAEA said the request was made in a letter
addressed to Director General Mohammed ElBaradei
and was delivered by the Saudi Arabia ambassador
on Monday on behalf of Arab diplomats.

"We are circulating the letter to member states
and will investigate the matter to the extent of
our ability," IAEA spokeswoman Melissa Fleming
said.

She said the IAEA had not yet decided on its
course of action as it needs to check with
member states first. The Israeli ambassador to
the IAEA, Israel Michaeli, declined to comment
on the letter.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LK682373.htm

[Scurrilous]

27. Thanks.

:thumbsup: