Israeli Troops Arrest Militants in Raids

[Herschel]

- Masked Israeli troops raided two Palestinian hospitals Saturday and arrested two suspected militants, a commando-style operation the army said would be repeated in other hospitals where terror suspects might be hiding.



The troops, wearing black ski masks and carrying assault rifles, entered the Nablus hospitals before dawn Saturday. They snatched one militant from his hospital bed, where he was in critical condition, and found another in a basement with a pistol in his hand, the army said.

cut

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=540&e=4&u=/ap/20031025/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_1191

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Wonderful news. Terrorists are brought to justice. Be glad.

[Darranar]

1. Snatching them out of hospital beds...

isn't my idea of bringing them to justice.

[Herschel]

3. One had taken refuge

in the basement. Remember this the next time some wail about the IDF entering hospitals.

[Darranar]

5. Never mind - my mistake.

n/t

[bemildred]

2. So what's the deal with the ski masks?

[The Magistrate]

4. My Guess, Sir

Would be that these are men of a commando detachment, that sometimes operates in plain-clothes or even Arab dress in covert wise, and so would wish to conceal their faces. There is clearly some intelligence work behind this, and also a need for utmost professionalism in the operation, to prevent some grotesque invocation of Murphy's Law during its execution.

[bemildred]

7. That makes sense, thanks.

[bluesoul]

6. Wondering

Isn't this against the Geneva convention? Taking critically wounded soldiers out of hospital?

[bemildred]

8. Yes.

They (Medical facilities) are supposeed to be left alone, IIRC, and
"combatants" are not supposed to hide in them, but whether being
treated there is "hiding" will be in dispute I expect, or pretending
to be treated, etc. etc. etc.

One can have a long argument about it, but let's not.

[The Magistrate]

10. There Is A Motto For This Place, My Friend

"One can have a long argument about it, but let's not."

If it were still possible to vary signature lines as readily as formerly, it would be my pleasure to use that frequently....

[bemildred]

11. Indeed Sir.

I give it to you to use as you like.

There is a point at which retraceing again the steps in some
failed argument no longer seems a good use of ones time. The
real issues I think are trust and honest intentions. Without those
the rules are simply a foil for ones tactical maneuvers, and with
them simply a joint guide to fair dealing.

[The Magistrate]

12. Well Said, Mr. Mildred

Hence the Taoist preference for good hearts and no laws....

And the Confucianist hope practicving right action could make good hearts....

Yet the Legalists, like the snake, tend to get the last word: "Men are moved by punishment and reward."

[impeachbushjr]

9. these are the occupiers , I mean the annexing party

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5079.htm

Ours is not a warlike nation. It is a soldierly one, which means it does not want a war, but does not fear it. It loves peace but also loves its honor and freedom. We will never allow anyone to divide this people once more into camps, each fighting the other. The world will not help, the people must help themselves. Its own strength is the source of life. That strength the Almighty has given us to use; that in it and through it, we may wage the battle of our life. May God Almighty give our work His blessing, strengthen our purpose, and endow us with wisdom and the trust of our people. Lord God, let us never hesitate or play the coward.

If we are forced to send the flowers of the nation into the hell of war without the smallest fear, then surely we have the right to remove millions of another race that breeds like vermin. For we are fighting not for ourselves but for the whole country.

[impeachbushjr]

13. a few stats on the conflict

<A TARGET="_blank" HREF="http://www.ifamericansknew.org/">Statistics on the Israeli War for the Annexation of Palestine</A>

The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $568,744 to Palestinian NGO's.

Report on the SF Chronicle

Sept. 2000-Mar. 2001
The San Francisco Chronicle reported 150% of Israeli children’s deaths and only 5% of Palestinian Children’s deaths. more

889 Israelis and 2,522 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.

5,961 Israelis and 23,866 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000.

[bemildred]

14. Heh heh heh.

One suspects that Mr. Danker cut a bit too close to the bone.

[impeachbushjr]

16. Method of Operation

<A TARGET="_blank" HREF="http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,867343,00.html">Unwilling Human Shields</A>
"The soldiers hid behind our backs as they pushed us forward," said Mr Maswadeh. "Then they put their guns on our shoulders and began shooting. We felt our eardrums burning, but when we tried to put our hands over our ears, they beat our hands away. The noise was terrible because the gun was right next to my ear."

"We were scared," said Mr Maswadeh. "When the soldiers pay attention to you, they always abuse you. We did not want to open the door."

So the four Israeli soldiers grabbed the owner of the neighbouring grocery shop, Bilel Abu Qwaider.

"They told me, 'We are going to break your bones and destroy your shop if you don't get your neighbour to open his door,'" Mr Abu Qwaider said. "They were pointing their guns at me and threatening to shoot everyone inside. I begged Basem to open."

The barber realised he had little choice. "There were five of us, and they took us one by one into the street and beat us," Mr Maswadeh said. "Then they brought us back in and a soldier ordered me to sit in the barber's chair."

"He grabbed the electric clipper and brought it very slowly down on my head. It was very painful. I was bleeding because he was ripping my hair out. I knew I was in trouble when I opened the door, but I never imagined this."

Word of the beatings at the barber's shop quickly spread, and a crowd began throwing stones at the soldiers. It was then that Mr Maswadeh and two friends were marched outside and used as shields as the soldiers fired into the crowd.

When the mob backed off, the incident took another strange twist.

"They took pictures of us. They took some pointing their guns at us, and some resting their guns on our heads. One of the soldiers had a picture taken of him using one of my friends as a chair," Mr Maswadeh said.

The army's attorney general says he has ordered a military police investigation into the case.

Human rights groups say the army only investigates when forced by publicity, and it rarely punishes those responsible for such abuses. They say the military's attitude to people in the occupied territories was exposed by the Israeli army chief of staff, Moshe Ya'alon, when in a newspaper interview he likened the Palestinians to cancer and said he was administering chemotherapy.

"There is no doubt a culture of impunity," said Ms Stein. "Soldiers are rarely charged. There are not many military police investigations. Soldiers can do what they want.

[Muddleoftheroad]

15. They weren't soldiers

They were terrorists. The same rules do not apply.

[impeachbushjr]

17. Us and Them - pff : people is people is people, until they are dehumanized

<A TARGET="_blank" HREF="http://www.spacewar.com/2003/031007123002.kfxn919w.html">right and left israeli critiques</A>

Dan Margalit, a columnist for the Maariv daily, said that while Syria was a "terrorist state", it had no connection to the attack in Haifa.

"The bombardment of the empty Islamic Jihad training camp north of Damascus is a harmful joke by a helpless government," he wrote.

"It will remain a joke only if it is a one-time event carried out by a frustrated group of ministers and it will become harmful if it is repeated in the future."

The liberal Haaretz daily also took Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to task over the strike in an editorial headlined "A Steep and Slippery Slope".

Sharon said Tuesday that Israel was ready to strike at its enemies at any time and in any fashion it deemed fit.

"The bone of contention is not Israel's right to strike against those who operate against it under the cover of (Syrian President Bashar) Assad... but this does not testify to the wisdom of such moves," it said.

"In the wake of the Israeli operation, the Syrian president could, contrary to Israeli expectations, cause an additional escalation either directly or through agents and the likes of (the Lebanese militia) Hezbollah."

Effie Eitam, housing minister in Sharon's coalition and leader of the ultra-right wing National Religious Party, said the attack on Syria had "missed its target" and Israel would have been better off if it had struck at the Palestinian leadership.

[impeachbushjr]

18. FAQ on Palestine

<A TARGET="_blank" HREF="http://www.vestedowl.com">http://www.vestedowl.com</A>

<IMG SRC="">
A Japanese view of the Palestinians?

We recently received this e-mail which has been circulating around the internet. It asks some important questions that we thought you might like to know the answers to. We printed a condensed version of the original letter below.


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"If you are so sure that Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country:

When was it founded and by whom? What were its borders? What was its capital? What were its major cities? What constituted the basis of its economy? What was its form of government? Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?" - Yashiko Sagamori


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Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation? What was the language of the country of Palestine? What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine? What was the name of its currency? And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?

If you are lamenting the low sinking of a once proud nation. Please tell me, when exactly was that nation proud and what was it so proud of?"

This letter was written by Yashiko Sagamori on Nov. 6, 2002.
........................................................
The article goes on to answer these questions. Please offer a few minutes of your time to see how they responded.
Thank you.

[bemildred]

19. Sir, you need to learn how to link URLs properly on this site.

It goes like this:

leftsquarebracket "link" ":" "http://whateveryoulike" "|" "displaytag" rightsquarebracket

Example:

vestedowl

You can also use the HTML lookup table on the post page.

Edit: trying to get it not to eat square brackets, failed.

[Darranar]

20. Here:

[link:www.haaretz.com|Haaretz]

That's the correct format.

[bemildred]

21. Show off.

:-)

[Darranar]

22. All you have to do is check the little box...

and it will work.

See?

[bemildred]

23. That's right, rub it in ...

[Muddleoftheroad]

24. Terrorists dehumanize themselves

And do not qualify as soldiers nor do they deserve the same treatment.

[bluesoul]

25. IDF

IDF also likes to dehumanize itself with their actions, not so rarely...

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. Definition

I think many consider ANY IDF actions to be wrong, even if they dare to shoot back at terrorists or shut them down while they are planning yet another attack on civilians.

If the Palestinians don't like the IDF actions, the simple solution is to shut down the terror network.

[bluesoul]

27. Actually

I didn't say ANY, I said some that are not so rare. Since Sharon is in power they have become more often, since his policy is very clear and doesn't have many reservations to the ultimate goal...

[Muddleoftheroad]

28. Sharon is a military man

Military men see an ultimate goal as victory as long as fighting is going on. Nowhere have I seen any indication that the Palestinians are ready to cease fighting.

[drewb]

29. Sharon weilds a hammer...

Therefore he sees every problem as a nail.

Perhaps both sides could use new leaders, ones that aren't so quick to swing that hammer...

[bluesoul]

30. True

Cheers to that Drewb! :toast:

[Muddleoftheroad]

31. I agree

But as long as the Palestinians are wielding their hammer, he has no choice. THEY are giving him the reason to do so.