Israel Must Stop Fanning the Flames That Will Consume Us

[cali]

Sunday, January 25, 2009; Page B01

JERUSALEM

Like the pairs of foxes in the biblical story of Samson, tied together by the tail with a flaming torch between them, we and the Palestinians are dragging each other into disaster -- despite our disparate strength, and even when we try very hard to separate. And as we do, we burn the one who is bound to us, our double, our nemesis, ourselves.

So, a month after the war began, in the midst of the wave of nationalist invective now sweeping Israel, it would not hurt to keep in mind that this latest military operation in Gaza was, when all is said and done, just one more way-station on a road paved with fire, violence and hatred. On this road, you sometimes win and you sometimes lose, but in the end it leads to ruin.


As both Israel and Hamas declared their own cease-fires, we Israelis rejoiced at how this campaign has rectified Israel's military failures in the Second Lebanon War of 2006. But we should listen to the voice that says that the Israel Defense Forces' achievements are not indubitable proof that Israel was right to set out on an operation of such huge proportions; they certainly do not justify the way our army pursued its mission. The IDF's success confirms only that Israel is much stronger than Hamas, and that under certain circumstances it can be very tough and cruel.

But as the magnitude of the killing and the devastation has become apparent to all, perhaps Israeli society will, for a brief moment, put its sophisticated mechanisms of repression and self-righteousness on hold. And then perhaps a lesson of some sort will be etched into the Israeli consciousness. Maybe then we will finally understand something deep and fundamental -- that our conduct here in this region has, for a long time, been flawed, immoral and unwise. Time and again, it fans the flames that are consuming us.

<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012302312.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

[oberliner]

1. Sane and rational analysis of the situation

Including this paragraph:

Of course, the Palestinians cannot be absolved of culpability for their errors and crimes. To do so would show contempt and condescension toward them, as if they were not rational adults responsible for their mistakes and oversights. True, the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip were in large measure "strangled" by Israel, but they, too, had other options, other ways of protesting, voicing and displaying their difficult plight. Firing thousands of rockets at innocent civilians in Israel was not their only choice. We must not forget that. We must not be forgiving of the Palestinians, as if it goes without saying that when they are in distress, their almost automatic response must be violence.

[cali]

2. yes, I think Grossman's piece is one of the best I've read recently

it doesn't hurt that he writes well. One of the things that drives me nuts about many of the pieces posted here, is just how ill written they are. I know that's nitpicky.

[oberliner]

5. And this is a translation from Hebrew

So give some credit to Haim Watzman as well!

[shira]

3. agreed, very good article

[bemildred]

4. Bombing cities is deeply stupid.

Sometimes you can get away with it, but it never works. It looks bad. It does not quell resistance. It creates a tactical maze/obstacle course for any invading troops. It makes use of armor problematical. It's very expensive. And don't tell me about WWII, this is not WWII.

[oberliner]

6. What do you think Israel ought to have done to prevent Qassam rocket fire?

I apologize if you've already answered this question and I missed it.

Do you think that Hamas and other militant groups would have abandoned such attacks if the crossings remained open?

[bemildred]

7. I think doing deeply stupid things because you are frustrated is deeply stupid.

I have said over and over that the Qassam fire cannot be prevented by military means.

[bemildred]

10. Consider this: nobody shoots Qassam's here in the USA.

Do you think that is because we lack the means here, or because we lack the motive?

[ikojo]

11. I think that if the Palestinians were allowed

to pursue work in Israel and earn money then maybe there would not be the support for Hamas. People are hungry, they have limited access to clean water so they turn to those who say the speak in the interests of the people.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

13. I think you are deeply mistaken.

This is not a conflict about poverty. It is a conflict about denied political and personal freedom.

Prior to the suicide bombings in the 90s, there were easily 100,000 Gazans who worked in Israel each day. Once the borders were closed, Israel began to import its dirty-workers from other places.

Doing Israel's dirty-work is not the answer for Palestine.

[Vegasaurus]

15. It was work, as opposed to poverty and living on aid

And it wasn't all "dirty work".

From what I have read, a lot of Palestinians long for the days when they could travel freely to Israel to work, so that they could provide for their families.

Violent resistance has brought them misery and poverty and closed borders, checkpoints and walls.

Many Palestinians would prefer to work in Israel to the misery that their militants (and their many supporters, even those on this forum) have bestowed upon them.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

19. Oh, what have you heard from the numerous Palestinians with whom you communicate?

They did Israel's dirty work.

My husband and his co-workers used to be locked in their places of employment at night like slaves.

From which country is Israel importing its dirty-workers these days?

[Vegasaurus]

21. So you prefer people to live in poverty and misery

to having work at all?

In my opinion, it is better to have work than to live on the dole.

But perhaps that is not a very "progressive" idea.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

22. I prefer that Gazans not be slaves in Israel. I know that might be hard for you to grasp...

given how "progressive" you are and all.

[Idealism]

23. "It is better to stand on your feet than to die on your knees."

That is the feeling Palestinians have. After all they have endured at Israel's hands, I cannot say I blame them.

[Behind the Aegis]

25. You got that one all twisted around, didn't ya?

"It's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees." Then again, that wouldn't even be true either.

[Idealism]

31. Yeah it was a bit late

Either way, you get the point.

Why don't you think the statement to be true?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

28. I think this is the thing that truly rankles as some deep psychological level. nt

[ProgressiveMuslim]

12. Oberliner, did you read this piece by Henry Siegman in the LRB?

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n02/sieg01_.html

You unfailingly accept Israel's starting point on all discussions. I would respectfully ask that you reconsider!

[LeftishBrit]

8. Good article; Grossman is a wise person.

[cali]

9. yes, I think so too.

Unfortunately, wisdom is too often spurned here in I/P while inflammatory propagandistic bullshit is too embraced.

[cboy4]

14. Hamas is fanning the flames as well

Let's not forget.

[cali]

16. what has Israel accomplished?

And did they really punish Hamas, or did they punish the civilian population of Gaza?

[cboy4]

17. Well they punished both civilians and Hamas. Unfortunately,

yes, civilians, but I think the statistics show that half of the people who died were Hamas.

So they blew up a bunch of terrorists which doesn't bother me a bit.

I already said Israel needs to travel down a new road to peace if it wishes to escape this vicious cycle.

However, you know my position.

I don't like Hamas. I think they cause a lot of their own problems. And they have to get to a point where they recognize Israel's right to exist.

[cali]

18. I agree with you about Hamas

and so does the author of this piece.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

20. Do you see any need for Israel to recognize the right of Palestinians to a state?

Just curious.

What do you think about the concept of mutual recognition of sovereigh states at the end of the process, when borders are fixed?

[pelsar]

26. I"m curious....

ever since intifada I the vast majority of the israelis (polls and electoral votes) have made it perfectly clear that vast majority agree that the Palestinians should get their state....its a given.

the only stickler is when and the "insurance" if you will, that it wont be used as springboard...but the principle and recognition has been there for many years.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

27. I'm curious...

Israel is a sovereign nation. Why does it require continual assurance that it really does have a *right* to exist?

What's wrong with the idea of mutual recognition of sovereign nations with fixed borders? Let's put an end to the psychological hoops and games.

[pelsar]

29. i dunno....

personally i just think its a game being played out...the negotiation game of give and take.....i really dont have much patience for those games which is probably why have such a low opinion of politicians......

your not going to get any serious answer from me on that topic...i'm way to cynical.

[LeftishBrit]

30. Nothing whatever is wrong with the idea of mutual recognition of sovereign nations with fixed border

That's what's going to have to happen.

[pelsar]

24. it remains to be seen...

the mini wars outcome and its repercussions have yet to be felt...

politics and war bring about changes, a series of events and people that nobody can forsee. So too with this.....will it spawn a new "taliban" type movement, will hamas stop shooting rockets, will the PA lose out more and hamas take over the westbank? will hamas lose their support.....

going to war is a always a gamble, since both sides think they can win and change the situation to their own liking.....