Gaza invasion: Powered by the U.S.

[grassfed]

Gaza invasion: Powered by the U.S.
January 16, 2009
Salon
Israel's current air and ground assault on the Gaza Strip has left about 1,000 Palestinians dead, including 400 women and children. Several thousand people have been wounded and dozens of buildings have been destroyed. An estimated 90,000 Gazans have abandoned their homes. Israel's campaign in Gaza, which began more than two weeks ago, has been denounced by the Red Cross, multiple Arab and European countries, and agencies from the United Nations. Demonstrations in Pakistan and elsewhere have been held to denounce America's support for Israel.

It's well known that the U.S. supplies the Israelis with much of their military hardware. Over the past few decades, the U.S. has provided about $53 billion in military aid to Israel. What's not well known is that since 2004, U.S. taxpayers have paid to supply over 500 million gallons of refined oil products -- worth about $1.1 billion –- to the Israeli military. While a handful of countries get motor fuel from the U.S., they receive only a fraction of the fuel that Israel does -- fuel now being used by Israeli fighter jets, helicopters and tanks to battle Hamas.

According to documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, between 2004 and 2007 the U.S. Defense Department gave $818 million worth of fuel to the Israeli military. The total amount was 479 million gallons, the equivalent of about 66 gallons per Israeli citizen. In 2008, an additional $280 million in fuel was given to the Israeli military, again at U.S. taxpayers' expense. The U.S. has even paid the cost of shipping the fuel from U.S. refineries to ports in Israel.

In 2008, the fuel shipped to Israel from U.S. refineries accounted for 2 percent of Israel's $13.3 billion defense budget. Publicly available data shows that about 2 percent of the U.S. Defense Department's budget is also spent on oil. A senior analyst at the Pentagon, who requested anonymity because he is not authorized to speak to the press, says the Israel Defense Force's fuel use is most likely similar to that of the U.S. Defense Department. In other words, the Israeli military is spending about the same percentage of its defense budget on oil as the U.S. is. Therefore it's possible that the U.S. is providing most, or perhaps even all, of the Israeli military's fuel needs. What's more, Israel does not need the U.S. handout. Its own recently privatized refineries, located at Haifa and Ashdod, could supply all of the fuel needed by the Israeli military. Those same refineries are now producing and selling jet fuel and other refined products on the open market. But rather than purchase lower-cost jet fuel from its own refineries, the Israeli military is using U.S. taxpayer money to buy and ship large quantities of fuel from U.S. refineries.

more
http://robertbryce.com/node/247

[MacBookPro]

1. Sounds good to me.

Israel is a staunch ally of ours. They are under constant siege by people who want to exterminate them. We not only have the right to help them, but the duty as well.

[azurnoir]

2. We have the right to supply them WP knowing they will

use it in heavily populated areas? wow I think your on the wrong site let me suggest the following FreeRepulic, the Jawa Report, Jihad Watch, LittleGreenFootballs, you'll find plenty of like minded people there. Or but wait is that why your here because us leftists need a vioce of "sanity" to remind us of who we are?

at any rate welcome to DU may your stay be memorable

[MacBookPro]

3. There are plenty of like-minded people in this I/P forum, actually.

Are you suggesting that they are all fit for those sites you mention?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MacBookPro]

5. No, thank you.

Your obvious desire to resort to ad-hominem instead of civilized debate ends our conversation. I will not engage you.

[Idealism]

6. Perhaps I take offense to you labeling Palestinians in such a general manner

It is you who has resorted to generalities and stereotypes of the ugliest sort. Civilized debate requires facts, something you clearly only wish to tailor to your needs and recollection of history.

[Dick Dastardly]

11. He did not label Palestinians in a general manner nor did he resort

to generalities and stereotypes of the ugliest sort as you try to smear him with doing.

He said

Israel is a staunch ally of ours. They are under constant siege by people who want to exterminate them. We not only have the right to help them, but the duty as well.

you said

Perhaps I take offense to you labeling Palestinians in such a general manner
It is you who has resorted to generalities and stereotypes of the ugliest sort. Civilized debate requires facts, something you clearly only wish to tailor to your needs and recollection of history.

How is that resorting to generalizizing, stereotyping and labeling the Palestinians in the ugliest sort of ways? Israel is in fact under constant siege from people who want to exterminate them like Hamas, IJ, Al Aqsa, PFPL ect ect, he never claimed it was all the Palestinians or for that matter even Palestinians at all. He just stated a generally known fact to make his point on the topic not to assign specific blame.



On the otherhand you and others tried to twist what he said, twist facts and use ad homs rather than actually deal with the topic. You and others also engaged in exactly what you accused him of doing, labeling, generalizing and stereotyping of the ugliest sort. He engaged in none of it.

For example,

from azurnoir

We have the right to supply them WP knowing they will
use it in heavily populated areas? wow I think your on the wrong site let me suggest the following FreeRepulic, the Jawa Report, Jihad Watch, LittleGreenFootballs, you'll find plenty of like minded people there. Or but wait is that why your here because us leftists need a vioce of "sanity" to remind us of who we are?

from you

You are right, there are a few as dense as you
I forgive them for their Nationlist-Zionism after understanding that they haven't known anything different. What is your excuse?

And what you said that I quoted above.

We see perfect examples of what I say.



The fact is we see Israel generalized all the time but there is never a problem with doing that. It also seems that only in Israel's case that when at war is wrong to generalize that one party wants to destroy, kill, hates ect ect the other party and they must be separated in some manner. In WW2 for example we wanted to destroy the Japanese and the Japanese wanted to destroy us, it was not about only the Dems who wanted to destroy Japan or Tojo and his crowd wanting to destroy America. The same for just about any war or conflict except when Israel is involved. When you are at war with someone its generally with the whole country not just parts or groups. The fact is that in every poll(I can give you links if you want but they have been posted here many times) taken a overwhelming majority of Palestinians many over 80% and most hovering between 70% to 80% supported suicide bombings terror attacks and rocket attacks on Israeli cities. Couple that with Palestinians voting Hamas into power and a good case can be made that there is nothing wrong with generalizing certain facts.

[Idealism]

12. Show me proof of that

Because I can show you polls that say a majority want a peaceful two-state solution. Polls are meaningless. And here is something you don't seem to know: Hamas didn't run on the "exterminate Israel" platform. You are generalizing. The official platform was Anti-Corruption and Socialism due to Fatah being so corrupt and ineffective at administering the Strip, but keep painting with that brush. I bet you don't even know that Hamas has two wings of operations; to you they are all "terrorists" waving AK-47's I am sure. Show me evidence that I have categorized Israeli's by what their inept government does, as well, I would like to see it.

[Dick Dastardly]

16. I will gladly show you proof of that and go through each of your points but first

you need to deal with the main point of what I said not the side note/point ignoring everything else.

[Idealism]

18. You incorrectly assume this is the first instance of his generalities

That being said, it does not concern you

[pelsar]

19. hamas two wings...?

and i bet you dont know that those two wings are not separated but in fact "overlap" and work together....

I bet you don't even know that Hamas has two wings of operations;

[Idealism]

20. Not really

The Qassam Brigades don't go around helping the elderly, or do police work..

[pelsar]

21. the hamas leadership.....the finances? hamas youth groups?

do you just want to believe that parts of hamas is really just a bunch of nice liberals in disguise?.......hamas doesn't even bother pretending they have two "separate wing"...thats been an invention from some nice western progressives. (arafat used to push that idea...the concept was shown years ago to be nothing more than a joke....)

Ever see their education youth groups that get kids "off of the streets"?....ever read about the university in gaza?

and their "police work"....yes infact the police are infact para military and "reservists for the full paid thugs that make up their army.

hamas is what it is...they dont hide it, why are you trying to?

_____

whether or not they should be "recognized and accepted" is a different argument, but hamas is simply a theocratic facist dictatorship that is more and more based on shari law...putting your head in the sand and pretending they aren't doesnt change the facts or their beliefs.

[Idealism]

22. First off

The Qassam Brigades aren't their paramilitary police force. That is the Executive Force. They are two different entities, with the EF having less than an estimated 2500 to their name. The Brigades are the "20,000" supposedly, but I doubt that claim.

Hamas's political wing runs on a Socialist/Liberation platform, but it is hard at times to discern as to what degree the militant wing overlaps. Hamas provides more services to their citizens than all other Arab governments, with the exception of the oil states. They have built schools, mosques, hospitals, old age shelters, etc. Although, the mosques in particular are dual-purposed, for worship and recruitment, they are a religious social movement first and foremost after all.

If you would like some decently research on Hamas I would suggest to you these two links:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas.htm
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=74&jumival=299

The first is a surface level look at Hamas, while the second is a multi-part interview. Both are worth the time.

[pelsar]

23. you owe me a laptop......(macbookpro) the coffee-all over the place.

hamas's political wing runs on a Socialist/Liberation platform

....you cant recognize a con?...I'll explain, its a simple pattern that one sees with all religious/cults to get recruits and develop a powerbase to increase their political power until they take over.

hizballa did it, israels Shas does it, Hamas did it:

its simple, they fill in the cracks where the govt doesnt go, but the core is the nurseries and kindergartens. This is where they take the kids, provide them a warm, well fed environment all day. What poor parent who cant afford heating or food would say no to such a thing? and on the side they also indoctrinate them with their version of religion and their own moral superiority. Even when the parents see this and even if they disagree, they have a hard time refusing the warm buildings, the full day of activities and food for their children....so they keep them there. But to claim that hamas is a "socialist/liberal" party is a farce...its nothing more than the most efficient way of getting recruits. Within 10 years those 6yr olds are hamas fanatics ready to enforce shari law (a very liberal social minded system) and toss off the traitors from buildings.

They also provide jobs etc for the "dads" and get them sucked in to the movement as well.....they social services all have a price, like the mob.

ever compare hamas to hizballa?...you'll find the same exact pattern...as far as its social values..did you ever inquire what happens to those who dont belong to hamas? (the social services tend to get limited real fast at that point)

they are first a religious/militant movement...the social services are the vehicle for recruitment.

[Idealism]

24. Your interpretation of social services aside,

If Israel didn't oppress these people to the extent of dehumanizing them, all Hamas's promises would be dust in the wind. It is a Liberation movement, not "liberal" as you have misstated. The social services, like I nuanced to, is dual-purposed indeed, but why do they take such care of their elderly, if all they care about is the next generation of martyrs?

[azurnoir]

13. For Dick Dastardly

Odd that you do not quote my response but that would blow your theory out of the water would it not? So what is your point except to make over long quadruple spaced posts that are suppose to challenge what? Oh and your polling stats are just run with it no one is in the mood to play or allow you a stage upon which to see how long a post you can make in other words been there and done that BTW those same polls also say the same percentage of Palestinians would be willing to recognize Israel as part of negotiations

[Dick Dastardly]

15. No it would not blow my theory out of the water. It is not a theory.

He was accused of things which he did not do and was also attacked with ad homs. That was the point which you ignore.


As far as the polling stats that was just part of a side note/point which you seem to gravitate to rather than the point or the side note/point I made. Anyway the percentage willing to recognize Israel is lower than that of those who support attacks.

We all know you dont like to deal with any facts and those who back up what they say with facts so yes you have been there but you have not done that because as soon as the facts are posted whether few or many you disapear and ignore it. I am sorry you lack the ability to deal with a debate in a detailed factual level and can only handle a simple superficial level of debate but that is your problem not mine. May I suggest some courses on debate at your community college.

[azurnoir]

17. Well here's some facts for you

PSR - Survey Research Unit: Public Opinion Poll # 30

2) Peace Process

*

53% accept and 46% reject a mutual recognition of Israel as the state for the Jewish people and Palestine as the state for the Palestinian people; 48% think a majority of Palestinians support the mutual recognition while 38% think a majority of Israelis support it.
66% support and 30% oppose the Saudi Initiative that calls for an Israeli withdrawal to the lines of 1967 in return for an Arab recognition of Israel and normalization of relations with it.

*

72% would support reconciliation between the two peoples after reaching a peace agreement and establishing a Palestinian state recognized by Israel.
*

41% accept and 57% reject a permanent settlement along the lines of the Clinton parameters and the Geneva Initiative. Support varies for the various elements with the highest level (55%) going to end of conflict and the lowest (27%) going to the demilitarization of the Palestinian state so that it would not have an army. 45% think a majority of Palestinians would accept such a settlement and 40% think a majority of Israelis would accept it.
*

75% expect Palestinian-Israeli negotiations launched by the Annapolis process to fail and only 15% expect them to succeed.
*

70% believe that the chances for the creation of an independent Palestinian state along side Israel in the next five years are slim to non-existent and 29% think chances are medium or high.
*

32% expect the Likud to win the next Israeli elections, 18% expect Kadima to win, and 18% expect Labor to win.
*

47% expect the Israeli elections to have no impact on Palestinian-Israeli negotiations, 23% expect them to lead to cessation of negotiations, and 18% expect them to improve chances of success in the negotiations.
*

48% support armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel and 49% oppose such attacks.
*

Three quarters (74%) support renewal of the ceasefire agreement in the Gaza Strip while 23% oppose the renewal.

http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2008/p30e.html#head2

this poll was taken prior to Operation Cast Lead if you have one that was taken more recently post cast lead please post it

[azurnoir]

8. Some do some do not depends on the person

your talking about and how "undercover" they are

[grassfed]

7. Israel recruits 'army of bloggers' to combat "anti-Zionist" Web sites

Israel recruits 'army of bloggers' to combat "anti-Zionist" Web sites

By Cnaan Liphshiz

The Immigrant Absorption Ministry announced on Sunday it was setting up an "army of bloggers," to be made up of Israelis who speak a second language, to represent Israel in "anti-Zionist blogs" in English, French, Spanish and German.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056648.html

... whatever

[azurnoir]

9. well if this "newbie" is one of those

Israel needs to have higher standards

[bstender]

10. PR is power

amazing what a good PR campaign can do for a cause. In this speech by Norman Finklestein, he asked for a show of hands of who in the audience had heard of "the Balfour Declaration" and compared it similarly important milestones in favor of the Palestinian side and the contrast was striking.

the speech is essential viewing I think, but long (but it can be read rather than listened to) http://normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2061

"It must be said here that significant lessons can be learned from the history of Zionism. The Zionist movement made sure that each of the documents that conferred—or appeared to confer—international legitimacy became a veritable household reference. Its leaders grasped how critical such legitimacy was in winning over public opinion and thereby achieving their goal. Were it not for the concerted and sustained campaign of Zionist publicists, it is inconceivable that a one-sentence declaration uttered 90 years ago by a nondescript British foreign minister named Arthur Balfour, or a United Nations General Assembly resolution passed 60 years ago recommending the partition of Palestine, would still command near-universal recognition. Israeli foreign minister Abba Eban famously said of the Partition Resolution that it was Israel's "birth certificate." He did not exaggerate. It ascertained that the State of Israel was not a bastard child of the international system but rather its legitimate and—at any rate, morally—irrevocable offspring. It might also be noticed that the Zionist movement never rested on its laurels. Just as it required discipline and organization to extract each of its certificates of legitimacy, so it also required tenacity to preserve these gains. Neither the Balfour Declaration nor the Partition Resolution came easy, and renewed battles ensued after both victories against powerful forces that wanted to rescind them.(187) The contrast with the Palestinian independence struggle could not be starker. Each year the United Nations General Assembly issues the Palestinian people yet another birth certificate. The General Assembly is far more representative of humankind today than it was in 1947, and the vote favoring a Palestinian state is consistently lopsided whereas the Partition Resolution just barely passed. In addition, on nearly all the critical issues—borders, East Jerusalem, settlements—the Palestinians won a resounding victory and Israel suffered a resounding defeat in the 2004 Advisory Opinion of the International Court of Justice. Considered as a certificate of legitimacy the near-unanimous ICJ opinion manifestly carried far greater weight than the unilateral declaration of a British government. Yet—and herein lies the great tragedy—how many people even know of the annual General Assembly votes and the ICJ opinion? These landmark victories, achieved largely due to the inhuman suffering and superhuman steadfastness of the Palestinian people, have been criminally squandered one after another.

[Megahurtz]

26. Oh Hell

they're all over DU.

[Dick Dastardly]

14. Maybe you are on the wrong site and be more comfortable on ANSWER's, Revolutionary Communist Party,

Revolutionary Worker, International Action Center,International Solidarity Movement,MUMIA,WCW or one of the many other similar groups with like minded people. I am a lifelong Democrat, a proud liberal in the mold of Harry Truman, JFK and other great Dems not a communist/socialist, leftist, progressive(I consider progressives to be fringe Dems or too far left to be a Dem in many cases) or whatever else tries to pass itself off as a liberal Democrat these days and which sadly infects the once great Dem party with a multiple personality disorder. I believe in our system of democracy, capitalism, a strong military and a strong effective social saftey net that promotes the general welfare and growth of our people without wastefull innefective programs that just throw money at a problem or idea. Supporting a strong military and use of it when nessesary is not a just a Republican thing, its a Democrat thing too. Supporting capitalism is not just a Repub thing, its a Dem thing to. Supporting a strong effective social safety net is a Dem thing. Promoting our interests internationally even if it sometimes is at the expense of others is not just a Repub thing, its a Dem thing too and its what all countries do and have to do. Supporting Israel is not a Repub thing, its a Dem thing too. The anti Israel vitriol is nether a Repub or Dem thing its a far right, far left and progressive thing.

I dont hate Repubs like I see some do here and speak with such vitriol against them. It seems that that hate also is from those who are proggressive and far left. I believe most repubs want whats best for our country but are wrong on how to go about it or to what degree. Even though we disagree they are still my fellow American brothers.


I constantly see many people smear anyone who supports Israel as a right winger, Repub, fascist ect ect ect but the truth is those people smearing supporters of Israel are usually not Dem Libs but proggressives and those farther left






I had faith in Israel before it was established, I have in it now. I believe it has a glorious future before it - not just another sovereign nation, but as an embodiment of the great ideals of our civilization.
Harry S. Truman

Sixteen hours ago an American airplane dropped one bomb on Hiroshima.... The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East.
Harry S. Truman

[Megahurtz]

25. Speak for yourself. n/t