No territorial concessions to Palestinians, says Netanyahu

[Donald Ian Rankin]

Land would be 'grabbed by extremists', says Israeli opposition leader


Israel's rightwing opposition leader, Benjamin Netanyahu, who leads the polls before next week's parliamentary elections, warned today against giving up any occupied territory to the Palestinians, saying it would be "grabbed by extremists".

....

In a speech, Netanyahu said that rather than peace talks with the Palestinians about giving up territory, he favoured economic development – a plan of "economic peace". He has stopped short of endorsing a two-state solution that would see the creation of an independent Palestinian state.

....

His comments come at a time of growing assertiveness from the settler movement. None of the leading election candidates have taken a strong position against the settlers. Even Tzipi Livni, head of Kadima, who favours the creation of a Palestinian state as long as Israel's interests are met, said she believes in "maintaining maximum settlers and places that we hold dear such as Jerusalem".

....

Yesterday, Ha'aretz reported that defence minister Ehud Barak had agreed to approve a new settlement in return for the evacuation of Migron, a settlement of 45 families which even the Israeli government regards as illegal. Evidence of the approval emerged in an affidavit submitted on Monday to the Israeli high court. A plan is being considered for 1,400 housing units at the new settlement. In January last year, Olmert committed himself to evacuating settlers from Migron within six months, though it now appears that no one will leave the settlement for at least another two or three years.

....


This is from the http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/04/israelandthepalestinians-usa . I'm only allowed to post four paragraphs, must the rest of the article makes the point even more forcefully.

I don't think the Palestians have any real hope of achieving a viable state through violence. But they certainly don't have any hope whatsoever of achieving a viable state through peace.

The rockets should stop even so - a situation where the Israelis have peace and Palestinian civilians continue to be the victims of Israeli violence is preferable to one where Israeli civilians continue to be the victims of Palestinian violence and Palestinian civilians continue to be the victims of Israeli violence. But to suggest that the Palestinians and not the Israelis are responsible for the suffering of the Palestinians is grotesque and absurd.

[Xipe Totec]

1. Concessions? I thought it was their land

what's there to concede?

[nradisic]

2. Netanyahu will be Israel's W

The same way that W's misplaced conservative ideologies have brought the US down to its knees, the same will happen when Bibi is elected Israel's new prime minister. The Likud wrongheaded policies will drive Israel to ruin and they will have no choice but to give the Palestinians their own state. Bibi will make all Israelis pay, just like Bush is making all of us pay.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

4. I wouldn't bet on it.

Netanyahu has been PM of Isrel before, and Bush didn't have a nation far more powerful than his backing him up. I think the only people his policies will drive to ruin are the Palestinians.

[bunnies]

3. Its time to cut them off.

Enough screwing around. If Netanyahu is in - we should be out. Done deal.

[Mosby]

6. If the US withholds it's aid to Israel

what do you suppose would happen? I ask because you have been bringing this up a lot. Personally I don't think anything would change, it's relatively a small amount anyway. Do you think the US should continue to give aid to Egypt and the PA?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

7. Depends what conditions were attached.

The financial aid is not that small an amount, and it's only one part of the US's aid to Israel - providing political support also helps a lot to shield Israel against boycotts and embargoes, and helps reduce support for Palestinian militants, among other things.

If the US simply withdrew its support with no conditions, it would make life quite a bit more difficult for Israel but probably not much easier for the Palestinians.

If it threatened to withdraw its support unless the Israelis made a serious attempt to make peace with the Palestinians, that might actually achieve peace in the Middle East.

[Megahurtz]

17. Fuck 'Em

(Israel) the US should just withdraw Financial Support anyway. They don't deserve it.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

18. That probably wouldn't help the Palestinians.

I quite agree that Israel doesn't deserve US support, but bribing it with offers of it is the only conceivable chance for peace I can see.

And that would require a US president willing to oppose the pro-Israel lobby, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

[shaayecanaan]

24. I agree

the Western nations should agree to offer citizenship to 300 000 Arab Israelis, over five years, in exchange for the Israelis accepting what the Palestinians offered at Taba.

I agree that withdraw of American support would not be helpful. Israel is paranoid enough already.

[bunnies]

8. It'd be more of a symbolic message than anything.

Plus - it makes me sick to think that we enable them to behave like they do. Egypt shouldnt get a damn cent either. Where are they on Sudan? Where are they on Gaza? No more money for states that have no respect for human life.

We already stopped giving money to the PA as punishment for allowing the people to elect Hamas. Its a gross double standard.

[Mosby]

10. The US is still funding the PA and UNRWA

For a short time Israel stopped paying tax revenue to the PA, maybe that's what you were thinking of.

IMO cutting off aid at this point would only push the two sides further apart and give the RWers in Israel cause to the make the charge that "the world is against us".

[bunnies]

11. huh. I could have sworn we cut them off in 2006.

I clearly confused about something! lol.

At any rate - If they're going to act illegally - the would *should* be against them. Israel cant be allowed to go around stomping all over everybody just because of who they think they are. This whole Israel-can-do-no-wrong thing has got to stop and we certainly shouldnt be encouraging it.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

16. I think that's rather the point.

Making the Israeli right realise that the world is against them would be part of the point of the US cutting off aid.

As to pushing the two sides further apart, Israel has just killed hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians in a few weeks, and continues to occupy, oppress and impoverish on a massive scale; they're about to elect a man who opposes Palestinian statehood. How much further apart are you thinking of?

[Megahurtz]

19. Maybe It's About Time That

they realize the World is against them. :think:

[bushmeister0]

12. Since 1949 the US has given Israel $100 billion.

Almost $3 billion last year. That's more than to any other country, I'm pretty sure.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html

[shaayecanaan]

13. Works out to about $5 billion a year if you include the loan guarantees

and other defence-related items. Quite a bit, really.

US aid to the Palestinians is about $70 million a year, slightly more than 1% of the aid paid to Israel.

[Mosby]

14. the US gave UNRWA 185 million last year

and 154 million in '07. That is in addition to what the US gives to the PA.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

15. So about 5-10% of the aid to Israel, then?

N.T.

[oberliner]

20. Palestinians received $1.2 billion in aid in 2006

From the US, EU, and Arab countries.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

21. So total worldwide aid to the Palestinians was about 25-35% of US aid to Israel?

N.T.

[oberliner]

23. On a per capita basis, it's about equal

US aid to Israel in 2006 was $2.5 billion - and the US is the only country that provides aid to Israel.

So the total worldwide aid to the Palestinians was about half the total worldwide aid to Israel.

The Palestinian population is a little more than half of the Israeli population, so on a per capita basis, the amount of aid received by Israelis and Palestinians is close to the same.

[shaayecanaan]

25. Again, its $5 billion if you include the loan guarantees...

Israel's total tax revenues are about $40 billion a year, including the aid as well as private largesse from American Jews. That would give the Americans a fair bit of persuasive power, were they to elect to use it.

[oberliner]

26. Israel did not borrow any funds in 2006

I do agree that the US does have a fair bit of persuasive power over Israel, and I would argue that they have indeed elected to use it.

[shaayecanaan]

27. Loan guarantees, you understand...

Not the same as loans. Loan guarantees basically allow Israel to borrow from international creditors on the same terms as the US, on the condition that the US will be responsible for the repayment of the debt if Israel defaults.

The last time they were withheld was during the presidency of George HW Bush, which was enough for him to be painted as a potential Nazi apologist.

I would argue that they have indeed elected to use it.

The last president to put any real pressure on Israel was Jimmy Carter. He is accordingly the only president to have ever obtained any real concessions from Israel.

[oberliner]

28. Right - but they were not utilized in 2006

Also, they were partially rescinded by Bush in 2003.

Also, Bush put pressure on Israel by telling Israel that they better not take any military action against Iran when they were considering doing so.

It certainly seems like Israel has to at least "check in" with the US before it makes any big moves.

[azurnoir]

5. So this is what the Israeli public

apparently wants, I guess next weeks elections will be the measure of that

[bunnies]

9. mmmm hmmm.

Seems like whomever promises to treat the Palestinians the worst will win. We'll find out soon enough I 'spose.

[Jefferson23]

22. Netanyahu, 'Land would be 'grabbed by extremists'

He is absolutely correct, the Israeli government grabs the land and are extremists.