Jordanian MP to file war crimes suit against Israelis

[Scurrilous]

Reports in German Press Agency, al-Jazeera say Jordan's Legal Committee head to meet with International Criminal Court attorney general in Hague to file petition against Olmert, Barak, Livni and Ashkenazi for alleged war crimes committed in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3672587,00.html

<snip>

"Jordanian officials are working towards prosecuting Israeli officiali in the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague, the German Press Agency and the al-Jazeera network reported on Monday.

According to the report, the chairman of the Jordanian Parliament's Legal Committee, Mubarak Abu Yameen al-Abadi, is scheduled to meet with The Hague's attorney general on Thursday and file a petition to prosecute the heads of the State of Israel for committing war crimes.

The Jordanian MP will demand Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, Internal Security Minister Avi Dichter, Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai and IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi stand trial.

The MP claimed that these officials were "the main forces behind the war crimes committed in the Gaza Strip". The petition refers to Israel's Operation Cast Lead and all activity carried out between December 27, 2008 and January 18, 2009.

The lawsuit accuses the Israeli officials of charges such as "expelling residents, the demolition of houses, places of worship, hospitals, schools and ambulances".

The Jordanian Parliament members further claimed that Israel used weapons prohibited by international treaties, such as white phosphorus, shells containing uranium, and shells containing cancerous substances that were used for the first time."

[babylonsister]

1. Whoa. This is brave, I think, considering how

physically close the countries are.

[oberliner]

3. The brave Jordanians!

Ever the defenders of the Palestinian people!

Except the times when they occupied, killed, and expelled them.

[babylonsister]

4. The Palestinians needed defending against

the overwhelming force. Israel's neighbors see that, and I salute them whether you do or not.

[oberliner]

5. Why did Jordan expel the PLO in 1970?

Do you think that action was justified?

[Alamuti Lotus]

9. An illegitimate King's greed, an unscrupulous PM's (Wasfi at-Ta'l) viciousness

and Arafat's early display of incompetance. Ranking up there with Britney Spears, N*SYNC, & Aerosmith as a trifecta from hell. That's over-simplifying things, to be sure, but so is every other stupid phony-coy question like that.

[LeftishBrit]

7. Well, I am no fan of Israel's actions to the Palestinians...

but their neighbours aren't exactly great either. Nor has Jordan been above the use of 'overwhelming force' when it chose.

Really the Palestinians have been EVERYONE'S scapegoats/ enemies/ pawns (including sometimes their own leaders).

[azurnoir]

13. Then by your theory and those of some others here

here who is acceptable to come to defense of the Palestinians, seeing as how they have been everyones scapegoat including apparently their own?

[LeftishBrit]

18. Anyone who is prepared to actively help the Palestinians, not ONLY blame Israel

Jordan is next door to Palestine, and, though the extremes of Black September are a long time ago, I haven't noticed them doing much to help Gaza with financial or other aid recently.

Or Jordan might be more credible when coming to the defense of the Palestinians, if they also acknowledged that their own history wasn't stellar there.

It would also be good if the Palestinians could get a government of their own that sought to help ALL its people, and did *not* treat those that didn't vote for it as scapegoats. Maybe Barghouti, if released, will play that role. We shall see.

[Violet_Crumble]

21. UNRWA commends Jordan's aid to Gaza

I haven't noticed them doing much to help Gaza with financial or other aid recently.


AMMAN, Jan. 6 (Xinhua) -- The United Nations on Tuesday applauded the efforts the Jordanian Hashemite Charity Organization(JHCO) to support Palestinians in Gaza.

The Commissioner General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) Karen Abu Zeid said, since the outbreak of the crisis in Gaza, the JHCO has been working in cooperation with the UNRWA, and so far it has delivered some 525 tons of basic first aid for people there.

She said the aid of the JHCO, which came under difficult circumstances, is of great help to Gazans, who have been struggling under Israel's intensive assault.

The official urged donor countries to provide emergency funds to deal with the humanitarian disaster in Gaza.

Jordan has been sending humanitarian aid to Gaza through King Hussein Bridge every day soon after Israel launched offensive against Gaza on Dec. 27.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-01/07/content_10614894.htm

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. Palestinians have been taken by many and loved by none, especially their Arab and Muslim brothers

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Yeah, they've got a lot in common with Israel then, haven't they?

Personally I don't care who files war crime charges as long as someone does it and the people responsible are held accountable...

[oberliner]

11. They do indeed

Hence the ridiculous hypocrisy.

[LeftishBrit]

12. Yes. Lots.

That's what I mean about pots and kettles.

[azurnoir]

14. What amazes me is that events of some 38 years ago

committed by a PM who was assassinated for his role in the events and a king who is dead are being clung to as a means of discrediting what is happening today.

[oberliner]

25. King Hussein's son is currently the king of Jordan nt

[Violet_Crumble]

29. And what's that got to do with anything? n/t

[oberliner]

30. Not a lot

Just that the ruling authority that was in place during Black September is not all that different from the current one.

[Violet_Crumble]

31. Change that to nothing at all and you've got it spot on...

And trying to make out that a monarchy isn't all that different from ruler to ruler is as lame as saying there's not all that much difference in the ruling authority between the Clinton and Obama administrations...

[oberliner]

32. Hey come on now

There is a connection - and it's different from Clinton and Obama. This is an inherited monarchy we are talking about!

[GoesTo11]

2. Wonder what the statute of limitations is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

[azurnoir]

15. Seeing as how both those who were

King and PM at the time are now dead a war crimes trial seems an empty gesture doesn't it, but as a means of discrediting Israel's critic's it would possibly be worth its weight in gold and there for quite timeless at least for some.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. July 2002. Now you should wonder who can initiate proceedings...

Let's see. By virtue of not being members, Israel and the US can't. By virtue of not being a state and not being able to be a member, the PA couldn't either. In the case of the US and Israel, not being able to initiate proceedings is very reasonable, seeing as how they've refused to join...

[oberliner]

22. Palestinian groups have submitted arguments asserting that the PA is a de facto state

When Palestinian groups petitioned the ICC this month, its prosecutor said that it was unable to take the case because it had no jurisdiction over Israel, a nonsignatory to the court. Now, however, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, the ICC prosecutor, has told The Times that he is examining the case for Palestinian jurisdiction over alleged crimes committed in Gaza.

Palestinian groups have submitted arguments asserting that the Palestinian Authority is the de facto state in the territory where the crimes were allegedly committed.

“It is the territorial state that has to make a reference to the court. They are making an argument that the Palestinian Authority is, in reality, that state,” Mr Moreno-Ocampo told The Times at the World Economic Forum in Davos.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5636069.ece

[LeftishBrit]

6. Jordan? Something about pots and kettles comes to mind here.

[Scurrilous]

8. Conference of Israeli war on Gaza urges to sue Israel for warcrimes

<snip>

"An international conference wrapped up in Morocco Sunday, calling for suing Israeli civil and military officials for "war crimes and crimes against humanity" during Israel's war against the Gaza Strip last month.

The two-day conference, convened by the Rabat-based Islamic Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization under the theme of "Israel: War Crimes and Genocide", urged to prepare a "complete file" on the Israeli war crimes to lodge a complaint before international bodies.

"Israel is fully responsible for the mass destruction, by its forces, of education, science, culture and public service buildings, houses, hospitals, prayer places, and UN institutions" in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, said the Rabat Declaration adopted by the conference late Sunday.

The document also called for setting up a 12-member working group of international lawyers, representatives of international human rights groups and physicians witnessing the Israeli crimes to prepare a file to be presented to the International Court of Justice for an "advisory opinion."

Participants said they will submit the Rabat Declaration to the follow-up meeting in Geneva, Switzerland on April 25-27."

more

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. The lack of legal standing never seems to bother some people

Since Israel and the USA for that matter have not signed the treaty, there is this petty little issue of jurisdiction

[Violet_Crumble]

19. Both Israeli and US individuals can fall under its jurisdiction...

The ICC can investigate and prosecute individuals who are nationals of states who aren't members* if the matter is referred to it by the UN Security Council. That's what happened in the case of Sudan, which like the US and Israel isn't a member. There's an obligation on non-members who are members of the UN to cooperate with an investigation. It's a shame that universal jurisdiction was shouted down mainly by the US, which later unsigned the treaty, but countries like the US, Israel, China and others who are trying to shield their nationals from being accountable for crimes such as war crimes, crimes against humanity, genocide, and (soon) wars of aggresssion, apart from showing a blatant disregard for the spirit and purpose of an international court to deal with such serious crimes, will find that eventually the weight of the law will catch up with them...

*if they're also a national of a state that is a member, they're so screwed...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. The Jordanian MP can not take it to the UNSC, so that path is not available to him

Which is why it is nothing more than grandstanding

[Violet_Crumble]

24. the jodanian govt can, however

it can be referred to the security council thru the general assembly.

Just out of curiosity, do you personally think it's reasonable for people to want the Israelis mentioned to be held accountable for crimes committed in gaza?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. Agreed, they could, but they will not. The MP knows this and is just grandstanding

Before there can be accountability, there first has to be an even handed assessment of actions taken. For that to happen there the reviewer would have to have free access to the records and personnel of both sides. Given the nature of both parties to the conflict, that is just not going to happen and there will never going to be accountability on either side.

[Violet_Crumble]

28. Sorry, but you don't know what could be done...

And deliberate obstruction from any party that's a member state of the UN would not stop an investigation.

You didn't answer my question so I'll ask again: Just out of curiosity, do you personally think it's reasonable for people to want the Israelis mentioned to be held accountable for crimes committed in gaza? And if not, do you also feel the same about others who have been accused of war crimes that aren't Israeli?

[Fozzledick]

27. Jordan shelves IDF 'war crimes' petition

By BRENDA GAZZAR AND JPOST.COM STAFF

A Jordanian parliamentary delegation has indefinitely postponed a planned trip to The Hague meant to launch legal proceedings against Israeli leaders for alleged war crimes during Operation Cast Lead, a parliamentary official said on Wednesday.

According to a Jordanian official, the trip was suspended at the request of the Royal Court.

...

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor has called the plan "legally ludicrous and laughable."

Dichter told Israel Radio on Tuesday that "neither Jordan's parliament nor any other legislative body can preach to Israel about war ethics."

The public security minister added that Jordan itself had "dark memories" of 'Black September' in 1970, when Jordanian security forces killed thousands of Palestinians.

...

The monarchy generally keeps foreign policy matters under its purview, but the parliament has a right to discuss such matters, said political science professor Curtis Ryan of North Carolina's Appalachian State University.

"The domestic pressure on the kingdom has been tremendous from the Gaza crisis onward to do something," he said. "There are a number of independent and opposition members inside the parliament, and even royalists, who are very conservative and very nationalistic. There has been a tremendous amount of anger."

Even before the Gaza war, there were calls in Jordan to revoke its 1994 peace treaty with Israel from those who felt the agreement was unfair and implicated them in the Palestinian suffering, he said.

Since King Abdullah has no intention of abrograting the peace treaty, allowing legislators to seek charges against Israeli politicians is a way to let these people release some steam, Ryan said.

"It leaves them in a situation in which if they are going to have some level of pluralism and legal opposition, they have to let those voices be heard," he said.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233304820993&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Alamuti Lotus]

33. that was really just a bit of parliamentary masturbation

When people speak of "legal opposition", or the variation "loyal opposition" (you saw that a lot during W's years), etc.. what they're talking about is "letting you talk to give the facade of legitimacy to a system that doesn't really give a damn what you think".