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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 02:41 PM
Original message
Israel: Ball in Hamas' court
The decision on whether to release Gilad Shalit and prompt the reopening of the Gaza crossings is in Hamas' hands, officials in Jerusalem said Wednesday afternoon.

"Should the terror organization want to, Gilad can be released within days, and two days later the crossings will be fully opened," a source in Jerusalem said in the wake of the government's decision to insist on Shalit's release before reopening the crossings.

Based on intelligence reports, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert believes that Hamas needs a lull at this time and is greatly interested in seeing the crossings reopened, so it can rebuild Gaza and rehabilitate itself.


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3673961,00.html
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. What happens once they release Shalit?
What if Fatah's Al-Aqsa Brigades shoot rockets into Israel, leading to border closures again? Aren't we back to June 19, 2008 except Hamas has no infrastructure left and a hampered, fractured police force in which to crack down on other militant groups? What is to prevent Israel from closing the border crossings again once they have Shalit?
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. responsibility can be a bitch....
hamas wanted gaza, they got gaza, (and they killed for it) just like any govt they are responsible for their own borders......maybe they should stop putting bombs on the gaza/israeli border and try guarding them instead?

but then that means they have to agree to stop trying to kill israelis and even try to prevent others from doing that...hmm, maybe THATS the problem?
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. They killed Fatah because Fatah was about to kill them, firstly
Second: During the last cease-fire no Israeli's were harmed until the IDF decided to raid Gaza and kill 6 Palestinians.

Which is why my original post mentioned this situation would be akin to June 19th, except Hamas's ability to stop other groups of committing violence against Israel is hampered due to the recent Israeli campaign.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. seems to me ...
you never did show any link/proof about this 'fatah was about to kill them'...sounds more like an active imagination to me......

and how do you know that hama's ability has been hampered.....is this to something made up....or do you have some info that can be read....

links here__________

(btw from what i understand hamas in gaza has been quite busy knocking off the opposition, sort of clarifying that they are in control)
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Here:
The Gaza Bombshell

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804

There was actually a lot of coverage of it at the time.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. now find a more serious article....
Edited on Wed Feb-18-09 04:46 PM by pelsar
that as far as i know the single story based on "confidential documents".......and other "super secret notes' that no one else has seen, that backs your version of events (of course you have to ignore the gun battles between hamas and fatah before hamas put their plan into play and took over gaza....)

got anything from a more reputable source?......
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. don't know if its "reputeable" enough for ya but
Gen. Dayton admits US is helping Fatah

As violence raged this week in the Gaza Strip between Hamas and Fatah, US officials stressed the importance of American efforts to bolster forces loyal to the latter and said further help was necessary.

Congress recently allowed $59 million to be used to further Dayton's efforts at training the presidential guard of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah.
The money, however, didn't go through the normal appropriation process, as the White House took previously approved funds and simply reallocated them.
Dayton pushed the case for further US assistance to the Palestinian guard, despite months of efforts on the ground that have seemed to have little effect against the well-disciplined and well-supplied Hamas.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/J...

The June escalation was triggered by Hamas’s conviction that the PA’s Presidential Guard, which US Security Coordinator Lieutenant General Keith Dayton had helped build up to 3,500 men since August 2006, was being positioned to take control of Gaza. The timing was significant. Abbas, Haniyeh and Hamas Politburo chief Khaled Meshaal, normally based in Damascus, had signed a Saudi-brokered power-sharing deal on 9 February 2007, and formed a national unity government in mid-March. In response, the build-up of the Presidential Guard was accelerated. The US had arranged the transfer of 2,000 rifles and ammunition from Egypt in late December 2006, and in late April the Israeli government transferred another 375; the US committed $59 million for training and non-lethal equipment, and covertly persuaded Arab allies to fund the purchase of further weapons. Jordan and Egypt hosted at least two battalions for training, one of which was deployed into Gaza as clashes resumed in mid-May. With half its parliamentary bloc and its cabinet ministers in the West Bank in Israeli custody since the abduction of Israeli Corporal Gilad Shalit by Palestinian militants on 28 June 2006, Hamas concluded that its remaining government base in Gaza was in danger and launched what in effect was a pre-emptive coup.

http://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic-comments/pas...



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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. i'll take that as a reputable source....and of course it sounds far more
realistic

he June escalation was triggered by Hamas’s conviction.........so hamas got a bit nervous about something they BELIEVED was going to happen and started shooting......

so basically hamas, an armed political party in the govt, didnt like the idea that the PA, the recognized govt of the Palestinians were getting aid from its allies and others and decided to take a risk and increase the violence and eventually they put in their plan to take over gaza into effect.....based on their belief that the official govt of the Palestinians shouldnt have a control of the armed forces....


----

so are you saying you believe it was good and right that hamas had their own militia?




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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Vanity Fair is a very reputable source.
Edited on Wed Feb-18-09 07:07 PM by bemildred
But I have no illusions about convincing you with some "better" one.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. no one else even wrote about it?...continued it?
Edited on Thu Feb-19-09 12:19 AM by pelsar
i noticed they took a very reasonable situation, where the recognized govt of the Palestinians, the PA, received military aid and somehow this is considered a bad thing.....

so are you, just asking, one of those that believe hamas should have their own militia?...and do you advocate this ideal for other political parties?
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. you advocate militias?
if i am to understand correctly, hamas, a political party in the Palestinians society had its own armed militia....and you seem to believe that it was a good thing. (since you seem to think its a bad thing if their guns were taken away)

so do you believe that all political parties should have their own militias?
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. You asked for a link. You got some links.
Now you want to change the subject. Not even a thank you.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. thank you....but no subject change---your turn
and no i'm not changing the subject...now that its been established ( as far as i'm concerned) that the PA was being further strengthen militarily to combat illegal militias within its jurisdiction (as per the articles)...i'm now furthering my curiosity and am wondering if some of the posters here believe its a good thing that political parties have their own militias?

and that attempting to remove them is comparable to a "coup" by the established government- as per the vanity article and considered a "bad thing"
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Well on the subject brought up
while we're talking about militia's the militia that the US was training and arming was Fatah's not the PA's, the PA does not have an official military as such it is not allowed. At the time of the events in question Fatah was not the established government the PA is and was Fatah is not the PA, Fatah held the presidency but Hamas held the majority in the PA's parliament and Haniyeh was the PM, that was the arrangement the US was trying to change. Now are militias a good or bad thing depends ideally there would be one unified military but under the circumstances that is not possible, so what is possible is what is and those on the outside have the privilege of branding as terrorist those whom they chose, odd though how the Fatah forces firing rockets at Israel are not branded terrorists but rather militants, interesting that
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. why do you claim it was "fatah"...
i understand that the PA military was under Abbas.....

whether or not it was corrupt (which it is/was) is not the point...a working govt gets to have a single military answerable to a single entity...in this case it was to Abbas....and the PA military with its distinct uniforms and code of conduct. The US was doing what allies do..helping the established govt make order and limit the power of a militia......the fact is they failed and what you have is precisly what militias love to do: take over parts of a society and declare it their "own." Classic!


it seems to be quite clear now, that you believe political parties under certain circumstances can have their own militias.....i guess Lebanon's civil war doesnt seem to bother you.....Lebanon being the ideal example of militias "gone crazy"..gaza being the next example.


in case you missed it, the words terrorist and militants are quite interchangeable..depending upon the newspaper..
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. I have a low opinion of militias in general and ones affiliated with parties in particular.
Edited on Thu Feb-19-09 08:37 AM by bemildred
But you know that. And it is changing the subject. I am not the subject, and it is me and my views that you hope to attack now, having failed on the facts of recent history. The Vanity fair piece was posted back then:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=202490

It is easy to find the articles that I and other posters put up about this subject back then, it was fascinating:

Daze of Reckoning in Gaza

This is fascinating reading material, not only for the Palestinian leadership that kept the report secret until it was leaked, and not only for Palestinian citizens. It paints a terrifying picture of military and political helplessness, internal disputes, family loyalties, a lack of talent and ability to administer military and political forces, a huge waste of money (Mohammed Dahlan received $25 million to build a trained military force, which collapsed in one moment), an absence of coordination between headquarters and the forces in the field, many cases of fear along with some demonstrations of courage, and personal and party hatred between members of Fatah themselves, not to mention toward Hamas.

But beyond the importance of the report as courageous Palestinian accounting, its most significant revelation is that PA President Mahmoud Abbas not only assumed that Hamas was about to take control of Gaza, he also knew it. He had before him all the analyses, the information and the developments that preceded the Hamas takeover. Nonetheless, Abbas did not manage to do anything to prevent the takeover, nothing that might have prevented the present situation in Gaza. According to the report, the failure was not only functional, but also a case of "ideological neglect," because since 1994, the year when the PA was established, the authority in general, and Fatah in particular, had not formulated national principles relating to the proper approach of the PA toward movements based on religious platforms, such as Hamas or Islamic Jihad.

---

It also seems that Israel twice missed a historic opportunity to cooperate with Hamas - in practical, even if not in political terms. The first instance was when it boycotted the Hamas government when it was established democratically after the 2006 elections, and the second when the national unity government between Fatah and Hamas was formed.

This report may be the most relevant document for answering the practical question today of whether to conduct negotiations with Hamas, or to continue the two-pronged policy involving ongoing fruitless political talks with Abbas and waging a war without goals against Hamas. Israel and the PA must keep in mind the warning of the authors of this report: If the structure of the Palestinian security forces does not change, if structural and ideological conclusions are not implemented, and if there is no single strategic policy, the Palestinian government is liable to collapse in the West Bank as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=203268





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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. Do you not believe the IDF or the Foreign Ministry?
They were the ones, after all, who said they destroyed Hamas's infrastructure. Seems like an incredible high amount of bombs dropped if they failed to do what they said they did, no?

If you don't believe the IDF or Foreign Ministry's press releases, how about the Jewish Virtual Library?

Israel Strikes Back Against Hamas Terror Infrastructure in Gaza
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/castlead.html

I'll let you peruse that article at your leisure.

I like how everything I say must be linked to, and when I show you these links you change the subject. Lets see if this time will be the same?

Gen. Dayton admits US is helping Fatah
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1178708687359&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

As violence raged this week in the Gaza Strip between Hamas and Fatah, US officials stressed the importance of American efforts to bolster forces loyal to the latter and said further help was necessary.

snip

The State Department has in the past denied that America's non-lethal training of the presidential guard of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah - largely aimed at securing the Karni border crossing and protecting Abbas and other VIPs - amounted to the US taking sides in Fatah's fight with Hamas.

snip

Congress recently allowed $59 million to be used to further Dayton's efforts at training the presidential guard of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah.

snip

Dayton pushed the case for further US assistance to the Palestinian guard, despite months of efforts on the ground that have seemed to have little effect against the well-disciplined and well-supplied Hamas.

"We are entering a rough patch," Dayton acknowledged, "but all is not lost and our regional partners share that sentiment. However, it is critical that those who support the legitimate authority and forces represented by President Abbas receive the critical assistance they need."
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. quite a wide disparity.....
Edited on Thu Feb-19-09 02:58 AM by pelsar
your vanity article is about: to provoke a Palestinian civil war

the other articles are about strengthening the legal govt of the Palestinians (PA) against an armed militia of hamas

i think you have to chose which you believe, though it seems for reasons unclear you believe political parties should have their own militias and when the govt plans/attempts to remove them, this is a bad thing

but you can correct me if i am wrong-feel free
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. You are wrong, but there is no need to correct you
Edited on Thu Feb-19-09 03:34 AM by Idealism
Considering I did not post a vanity fair article, nor have I said anything about 'having a militia,' I would say you are very wrong. I would also that it is not my business to correct you on that, and to let the poster whom you were previously talking with do the honors.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's disgusting.
"Based on intelligence reports, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert believes that Hamas needs a lull at this time and is greatly interested in seeing the crossings reopened, so it can rebuild Gaza and rehabilitate itself"

So he plays poker with Mr Shalit and the people of Gaza as "bargaining chips", in one last attempt to improve his own image.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. NS playing politics with this kids life disgusting n/t
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Well, there is no question that:
"Hamas needs a lull at this time and is greatly interested in seeing the crossings reopened, so it can rebuild Gaza and rehabilitate itself", or at least that Hamas wants that. And they captured Mr Shalit precisely to use him as a "bargaining chip" too, copying what the IDF does routinely. But the point is do you want Mr Shalit home, or do you want to play for political points with his life? It's not like he has anything but symbolic value to either side, he is far from being a military asset, assuming he is still alive. And there is no reason at all to think that Hamas will free him for nothing. If the "Gaza War" did not do the job, there is no f**king way they are going to do it for free now. And Olmert has to know that or he is even dumber than I think he is, which is still dumb enough.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. The truth: Gilad Shalit is DEAD
Shalit is as dead as poor Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev. Being captured while wearing an IDF uniform is a sure way to get fitted for a toe tag.

What we got here is the sorry spectacle of Hamas playing the same game Hizbollah played with the families of Goldwasser and Regev, while Israel bombed Gaza with the same concern for Shalit as they did for Goldwasser and Regev when they carpet bombed Lebanon.

Disgusting!
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Why do you think this is the case? nt
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. In similar situations in the past, Israel got a corpse back while releasing dozens of prisoners
This has been the 'past practice' in the so-called prisoner exchanges in that region of the world.
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. excepting Tannenbaum, of course
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Tannenbaum was not IDF, he was a businessman
The IDF soldiers that were part of that exchange were pretty much dead.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Tannenbaum was a colonel in the IDF
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Tannebaum was a drug dealer...
in the reserves he was a colonel, but was considered a civilian by the IDF/govt
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. Analysis: Officials fear linking Schalit release with cease-fire puts Egypt relations at risk
When the IDF launched Operation Cast Lead in late December, two main objectives were set for it - to restore Israel's weakened deterrence vis-à-vis Hamas and to restore security to residents of the South.

The operation ended with Hamas believed to be significantly weakened, both militarily and politically. The feeling in the defense establishment was that both objectives had been accomplished.

But then came the stagnation, the hesitation and indecision. Israel failed to effectively use the momentum that the operation created and instead of reaching a cease-fire immediately, stalled and postponed its decision until Wednesday, when the security cabinet decided to reject the current proposal and link any deal to the release of abducted soldier Gilad Schalit.

At the security cabinet meeting on Wednesday, the ministers were presented with two alternatives - to accept the cease-fire proposal mediated by the Egyptians or to insert Schalit's release into the equation and postpone the implementation of a truce.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233304821691&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Israel drafts new Hamas prisoner list for potential Shalit swap
Israel has prepared a new list of Palestinian prisoners it is willing to release in exchange for Gilad Shalit and is ready to relay it to Hamas as quickly as possible in order to further a possible swap arrangement.

The political-security cabinet decided Wednesday to make Shalit's release a precondition to any new cease-fire agreement in the Gaza Strip.

A source in the Prime Minister's Bureau stressed Wednesday that Israel is willing to enter intensive talks with Hamas in Cairo, through Egyptian mediation, in order to resolve the matter. Defense establishment and Justice Ministry officials have prepared a new list of prisoners that Israel would be willing to release in exchange for Shalit if an agreement were reached with Hamas. Most of the prisoners on the list do not have "blood on their hands" - the euphemism used to describe Palestinians jailed for their role in the murder of Israelis. The list, which has already been presented to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, includes approximately 200 prisoners whom Hamas has requested and who were approved in the past by a committee headed by Minister Haim Ramon.

The list also includes the names of hundreds of prisoners Israel is willing to release - among whom Hamas may select. The total number of prisoners to be released was set in past agreements, which call for an initial release of 450 prisoners in return for Shalit, to be followed by another 550 prisoners released as a goodwill gesture to Egypt and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. In the end, women, minors and Hamas parliamentarians will also be released.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1065453.html
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. Olmert, Amos Gilad duel in public
The sudden shift in policy toward kidnapped soldier Gilad Schalit and a cease-fire with Hamas brought into the open on Wednesday a deep split between Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Amos Gilad, the Defense Ministry's diplomatic-military bureau chief who has been leading the negotiations with Egypt.

Just before Wednesday's security cabinet meeting, Olmert called Gilad and his boss, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, into his office and sharply reprimanded Gilad for comments extremely critical of the government's policy attributed to him that appeared in Wednesday's Ma'ariv.

Gilad, according to the paper, said he didn't understand the current policy change linking Schalit's release to a Gaza cease-fire.

"I don't understand what they are trying to do," he said. "Insult the Egyptians? We've already done that. This is insanity, simply insanity. Egypt remains almost our last ally here. For what? We are harming national security. The Egyptians are exhibiting great courage."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233304821697&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. Barak Backs Amos Gilad
(IsraelNN.com) Minister of Defense Ehud Barak backed Defense Ministry official Amos Gilad on Thursday against Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Olmert had reprimanded Gilad for acting on his own in negotiations with Egypt.

Barak stated that Gilad served completely with the support of Olmert and that Olmert was completely aware of all of Gilad’s actions. He also pointed out that Gilad has served several governments faithfully.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/161036
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
31. This is nothing more than continuing to punish the civilian population of Gaza....
Israel can't do that to an entire population to try to get Hamas to release any captured soldier. Well, they can, but it's totally wrong and should be condemned by anyone who considers themselves LW.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
35. Egypt Angry Over Israel Truce Condition - Official
CAIRO (AFP)--Egypt expressed its "indignation" on Thursday over Israel's decision by Israel to link a Cairo-brokered truce in Gaza with Hamas to the release of a seized soldier.

---

"Israel has demolished its credibility" and this attitude will "complicate the situation," said the official.

"It was clear from the beginning that the issue of the soldier was not linked to the truce agreement," he said.

"Egypt will not change its position. The Shalit case cannot be linked to the truce," he said echoing similar remarks made earlier this week by Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.

NASDAQ
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
36. Hamas refuses to free Israeli soldier in return for lifting Gaza blockade
Hamas has flatly rejected Israel's demand that it free a captive soldier in return for lifting the blockade of the Gaza Strip. The Palestinian movement called instead for international pressure on Israel to force the borders open to relieve the humanitarian crisis after last month's war.

Mousa Abu Marzook, the deputy leader of Hamas, accused Israel of backtracking over a truce agreement and warned that Corporal Gilad Shalit would only be released in return for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails. "We will not change our position," he told the Guardian in Damascus yesterday.

On Wednesday Israel's security cabinet agreed to maintain the blockade and to hold back from any truce until the release of Shalit, who was captured in June 2006 near the Gaza boundary fence. Until then it seemed a new truce was imminent.

Hamas and Egypt, which is mediating between the Palestinians and Israelis, had been treating the two issues as separate. But Ehud Olmert, Israel's outgoing prime minister, has been pressing to put Shalit at the heart of any deal. Olmert has just weeks left in office following this month's elections and is keen to secure the soldier's freedom before his term is up.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/20/israel-gaza-blockade-hamas
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-09 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
37. French FM: No reason to link Shalit deal with Gaza crossings
French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said Friday that Paris does not agree with Israel's position that a deal must be set for the release of abducted Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit before Gaza Strip border crossings are opened.

Kouchner said that France support an Egyptian proposal for a truce between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip and does not believe it necessary to link Shalit with any cease-fire deal. The two issues should be worked out simultaneously, Kouchner said, but the one should not be conditioned on the other.

He also confirmed that France has been indirectly negotiating with Hamas via mediation of Syria, Qatar and Norway. Qatari Prime Minister Hamad bin Jassim bin Jabir al-Thani told French President Nicolas Sarkozy when the two leaders met in Paris two weeks ago that he would engage Hamas intensively to help release Shalit, according to a foreign source.

Israel is still waiting for an answer from Hamas and Egypt on a proposal for marathon talks in Cairo on a new list of Palestinian prisoners to exchange for Shalit.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1065788.html
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. well it seemed a political game on Olmerts part
now it is was all for naught as apparently Netanyahu will lead the Israeli government
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Seems like a total fail.
He got nothing, not even any support, domestic or foreign. One last flail of the giant ego.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Olmert just gets his "feelings" hurt
Edited on Fri Feb-20-09 02:10 PM by azurnoir
but for Gilad Shalit this game could mean disaster

ANALYSIS / Israel's strategic games may endanger Shalit deal

The statement essentially backs Olmert's declared position during the past several days, which conditions the reopening of the crossings to the release of Shalit.
Senior sources in the defense establishment expressed grave concerns last night that Olmert has backed off from his originally declared willingness (as late as last week) to expedite negotiations for a deal on Shalit during his tenure. They say that the chances of completing the deal in the near future appear to be slim.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1065347.html

the title IMO is a bit of an understatement
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
41. Ehud Olmert sacks Israel's top negotiator in Gaza peace talks
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert dismissed Israel's top negotiator in Gaza truce talks for publicly criticizing his demand that Palestinian militants hand over a captured Israeli soldier before any deal is clinched, officials said Monday.

The move threatens to roil the talks just weeks before Olmert is succeeded by the hawkish Benjamin Netanyahu, who wants Gaza's Hamas rulers toppled and likely would take a tougher line in the Egyptian-brokered truce negotiations.

A truce deal has implications beyond cementing the informal January 18 cease-fire that ended Israel's war on Hamas. Without it, there is little chance of advancing already troubled talks to reconcile feuding Palestinian factions.

Olmert abruptly announced last week that Israel would not reopen Gaza's long-blockaded borders - the main Israeli concession sought by Hamas - unless Hamas-affiliated militants first freed Sgt. Gilad Schalit, who was seized in a June 2006 cross-border raid.

http://www.3news.co.nz/News/Ehud-Olmert-sacks-Israels-top-negotiator-in-Gaza-peace-talks/tabid/209/articleID/92538/Default.aspx?ArticleID=92538
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
42. Shock as Olmert fires his key negotiator
The Outgoing Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, triggered a political and diplomatic shockwave yesterday by summarily removing Amos Gilad, the defence ministry’s top official, from his leading role in delicately balanced Egyptian-brokered negotiations with Hamas.

The move was in response to angry criticism by Mr Gilad in a newspaper last week after Mr Olmert insisted any ceasefire deal with Hamas would have to await the release of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli corporal seized in 2006 by Gaza militants.

Mr Olmert’s office issued a formal complaint to the Civil Service Commission seeking disciplinary action against Mr Gilad, for making public his “embarrassing and significantly harmful” criticisms of the government strategy.

At the heart of the row appears to be sharp disagreement between the defence ministry and Mr Olmert over the desirability of a long-term ceasefire in Gaza – which Defence Minister Ehud Barak has promoted – as well as on whether progress on it would help to create the climate for Cpl Shalit’s early release.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/shock-as-olmert-fires-his-key-negotiator-1630329.html
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
43. Aides: Turgeman, Diskin to replace Gilad
While officials in Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office said he will "very shortly" announce a replacement for Amos Gilad, formally sacked by Olmert as his envoy to Egypt because of his sharp criticism of the prime minister that appeared in Ma'ariv last week, aides claimed to know the identity of those who will replace the top negotiator.
Maj.-Gen. (res.) Amos Gilad.

A longtime adviser to Olmert, Shalom Turgeman, will replace Gilad in the truce talks, along with the head of Israel's Shin Bet security service, Yuval Diskin, the aides said.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1235410694155&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Sigh. It's like a bad political novel.
:popcorn::popcorn:
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