Soldiers kill infiltrator at Nahal Oz

[Herschel]

Soldiers shot and killed Mohammed Awad, 26, a supporter of Islamic Jihad, and injured his companion Wednesday after the pair crossed into a restricted area around the fence that separates Gaza from Israel, military sources said.

The two approached the fence from the Gaza side near Nahal Oz on Wednesday morning, entering the 150-meter-wide restricted zone, before troops opened fire, the army said.

The men had no weapons, but were carrying cellular phones, maps of the area and intelligence about army patrols there, the military said. They were apparently collecting information for a future attack, the military said.

cut

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1067404729149&p=1008596981749

=========================

Another attack thwarted. The IDF prevents far more than actually occur.

[Darranar]

1. They didn't thwart anything...

all they did was delay it.

How do they know that they were collecting info for a future terrorist attack? they had no weapons; all they did was stumble into the restricted zone.

Is this the new IDF rule of engagement? "Fire, even if they are unarmed"?

On a different note: The IDF shot a 13 year old boy today as well.

[Herschel]

2. So this was coincidence

Maps, cell phones, and intellegence regarding Army patrols. Please!

[Darranar]

4. Why not?

Neither one of those three things prove that these people were aiding terrorists, and even if they were, why did the IDF suddenly open fire? Do they do this to anyone crossing into the restricted zone?

[Herschel]

6. So we will assume

they were pursuing a hobby, perhaps.

[drewb]

20. Working on their "Orienteering" merit badge???

That was one of my favorites too...

[The Magistrate]

17. Probably, My Friend

Anyone crossing into the restricted zone is fired upon: that is generally what such are, after all.

There does not seem much doubt these people were on a recce.

[Darranar]

18. Perhaps that is true...

but that is known after their deaths.

As for firing into restricted zones, I can understand why it's done but it does seem a bit too overcautious.

[vierundzwanzig]

12. Gotta be careful

of those cell phones!

[Herschel]

14. They were in a restricted area

with intellegence on patrols. This was not wise.

[bluesoul]

3. Hmm

That 13 year old must have been a terrorist...

[Herschel]

5. Explain yourself

What are you referring to?

[bluesoul]

7. This

A 13-year-old boy was shot and killed by IDF gunfire in the Balata refugee camp, in the West Bank..

[Herschel]

8. Source please

-

[bluesoul]

9. Here you go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/355188.html

[Muddleoftheroad]

10. An important point

All we have for confirmation is, "residents said."

"A 13-year-old boy was shot and killed by IDF gunfire in the
Balata refugee camp, in the West Bank, while Palestinians
were throwing rocks, residents said."

[Herschel]

11. Firebombs were being thrown

A 13 year old is certainly old enough to do this.

[Darranar]

16. He was AWAY from the commotion.

n/t

[Herschel]

49. It is claimed he was away

It is difficult for us to know.

[Character Assassin]

15. Yeah, it's a real shame about those choir-boys eating hot lead

How do they know that they were collecting info for a future terrorist attack?

Are you by any chance interested in a perpetual-motion brick I have for sale? Or possibly a Yeti pelt? I got it from The Elohim, after all.

[Proudlib]

29. That's All They Did

"How do they know that they were collecting info for a future terrorist attack? they had no weapons; all they did was stumble into the restricted zone."

Yup, no intent on causing any future harm to anyone. I bet those maps were just for sightseeing. I bet you get outraged when you read about unarmed recon planes getting shot down during WWII. I mean, they had no weapons, just cameras.

If you can believe that these two were just innocent victims of Israeli aggression, then I have this really cool bridge in Brooklyn for sale at a great price.

Once again, those who facilitate and support terrorist attacks get the benefit of the doubt while the party that is fighting said terrorists and trying to protect its citizens from suicide bombers and the like does not.

Another day. Another round of DU progressive liberalism. I love this place.

[bluesoul]

30. Wow

I didn't know liberalism ment shooting anyone you consider "suspicious". I too am a proud liberal, but that just doesn't fit into my take on what liberalism is supposed to stand for. Certainly not indiscriminate shootings and killings as the IDF tends to do...

[Proudlib]

34. It Doesn't

" I didn't know liberalism ment shooting anyone you consider "suspicious""

But at the same time, even a liberal can understand that when you enter a restricted military zone you're taking your life into your hands. Try it anywhere in the world and get back to us...if you live to tell the story.

"Certainly not indiscriminate shootings and killings as the IDF tends to do..."

So shooting a couple members of a terrorist organization who were entering a restricted zone is "indiscriminate"? Ooook. I'm glad I logged on today. I once again have learned something else.

[bluesoul]

35. Terrorists

I guess all those Palestinian children, women killed by the IDF as well as all those peace activists are also all "members of terrorist organizations"...

[Proudlib]

41. Way To Stay On Topic

We are talking about a couple members of Islamic Jihad getting shot in a restricted zone.

If you have an issue with this particular incident, talk about this particular incident.

[rini]

36. that 13 year old boy

was carrying a fire bomb. His parents should go to jail for child abuse and be forced to return the $25th they will receive.

[bluesoul]

38. Hmm

You're talking about one boy, I am talking about several hundred other Palestinian minors of age 13 or UNDER killed. I guess they ALL carried bombs and were a threat to Israel, right?

[Darranar]

45. You believe the IDF spin?

Perhaps he was carrying a firebomb, perhaps he wasn't. But I have sincere doubts about it.

[bluesoul]

46. Oh my

It's amazing really at what lengths some are ready to go to defend murder of 13 year old boys. They expect that condemnation for any Israeli civilian killed, while when there is talk about Palestinian civilians killed, even children that can barely walk, let alone carry a gun or engage in combat, all the possible justifications, excuses are brought and we're supposed to buy that? Nope, not me!

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[edzontar]

19. Races do not exist.

How can they have smells?

[Adalah]

21. All indications are

these two were laying groundwork for a future attack. It does seem there would be some attempt to apprehend them before firing on them, depending on the circumstances. The information is scant.

[ForestsBeatBushes]

22. Well, thank you!

As of this moment, obviously, here is the first message that seems to be both reasonable and logical.

[bluesoul]

23. Why?

Because it proves that any Arab/Palestinian is suspicious by default and a likely terrorist? I thought so...

[Muddleoftheroad]

24. In the U.S.

There are numerous installations where you are not allowed and we are not on a war footing. Israel IS on a war footing. If you go into a restricted area, you likely get shot depending on the circumstances. They did so and were shot. Oh well...

[bluesoul]

25. I see

So basically it's ok with you? Any Palestinian can be shot, even though he may not be armed or pose any direct threat? Thank you for clarifying...

[ForestsBeatBushes]

26. That's not what was posted.

MuddleOfTheRoad posted, "If you go into a restricted area, you likely get shot depending on the circumstances."

Do you understand the difference?

[edzontar]

31. And THEN Muddle said "Oh well".....

Which added a nice tone of "Served' em right, no need to cry, why should I care?" etc.

This fellow often seems quite comfortable and contented with the idea of Palestinians being shot.

[rini]

37. sorry to use big words but try to understand

restricted area = you get shot
war = you get shot
suffering consequences of going into a restricted area in time of war = you get shot.

[edzontar]

39. I'm glad it doesn't bother you

I don't know the whole story, but I am aobviously a bit more trobled than you are.

[Muddleoftheroad]

42. Again, oh well

I appreciate those who stepped in during my time away here. If you do something incredibly stupid, like walking in the middle of a super highway, you likely get killed. It's Darwin Award material. So in go into a secure area during a time of combat. Some soldiers will shoot you because, as soldiers, they would rather go home safely than take the risk that they might not. Go figure.

[Adalah]

27. bluesoul

I certainly don't think any Arab or Palestinian should be suspicious by default. These men were in a restricted zone. I did express misgivings about their being shot instead of being apprehended and questioned. Depending on circumstances, that may or may not have been feasible. Again, the information is sketchy. I certainly would never take an "oh, well" attitude about the killing of a human being.

[bluesoul]

28. Well

Adalah as much as I agree with you, some unfortunately do!

[edzontar]

32. Some on this board don't consider Palestinians to BE human beings...

As you can glean from their musings here and elswhere.

[bluesoul]

33. Hmm

I wouldn't go that far, but some comments fall only short of being on that level...

[edzontar]

40. I was thinking of a certain "smell" related thread....

That upset so much that I could not sleep last night...

Maybe i need to get away for a while!!!

[Cassandra]

50. That smell...

is the dead horse you keep beating. Your sleep problems seem to be a very delayed reaction; that's a rather old thread.

[Muddleoftheroad]

43. Palestinians are certainly human beings

And as such are capable of great good, great evil and great stupidity. This certainly falls in the last category and, likely the second. The soldiers clearly did not wish to take the chance that these likely spies/saboteurs also might kill them.

I refuse to get broken up about such actions.

All in all, however, the I/P situation is incredibly sad because I don't see an end to it.

[edzontar]

44. Don't lose any sleep, mind you...

Why worry yourself with the piles of dead bodies, the crushed homes of children, the lost hopes of thousands or millions, the certainty that more innocents and not-so innocents on both sides are going to die, today, tomorrow, the next day...

That young children full of hope will see nothing more hopeful than the thought of strapping some dynamite to themselves and blowing up a bus full of old people and little kids....

Moral certainty and a belief in the superiority of one "side" makes it so much easier to justify it all.....and to sleep.

I don't understand you, but then, that is probably a good thing....

Happy Halloween.

[Character Assassin]

47. Well, let's see here now....

A. Known supporter of Islamic Jihad
B. Cellular phones
C. Maps of the area
D. Intelligence about army patrols there
E. State of war
F. Caught in restricted area
G. Not found with a picnic basket or chasing their lost kite
H. Shot and killed.

All of which have absolutely nothing to do with "the piles of dead bodies, the crushed homes of children, the lost hopes of thousands or millions, the certainty that more innocents and not-so innocents on both sides are going to die, today, tomorrow, the next day..."

Looks like to fools tried to do something foolish and ended paying for it.

Not a lot to lose any sleep over whatsoever.

[Muddleoftheroad]

48. You need to read more clearly

As I said, the whole situation is sad and depressing. This particular instance, nope, it's not.

So what is your grand plan to end the endless fighting?

[rini]

51. Accusing decent people of not being decent is an old ploy of radicals

doesn't matter if they are left or right, they throw smoke and then blame the other party because they can't see.

[edzontar]

52. I wish I had one....

Sorry to screech at you ike that..it was late....