The real Israel-Palestine story is in the West Bank

[Violet_Crumble]

Israel's targeting of civilian resistance to the separation wall proves the two-state solution is now just a meaningless slogan


Ben White guardian.co.uk, Friday 20 February 2009

It is quite likely that you have not heard of the most important developments this week in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the West Bank, while it has been "occupation as normal", there have been some events that together should be overshadowing Gaza, Gilad Shalit and Avigdor Lieberman.

First, there have been a large number of Israeli raids on Palestinian villages, with dozens of Palestinians abducted. These kinds of raids are, of course, commonplace for the occupied West Bank, but in recent days it appears the Israeli military has targeted sites of particularly strong Palestinian civil resistance to the separation wall.

For three consecutive days this week, Israeli forces invaded Jayyous, a village battling for survival as their agricultural land is lost to the wall and neighbouring Jewish colony. The soldiers occupied homes, detained residents, blocked off access roads, vandalised property, beat protestors, and raised the Israeli flag at the top of several buildings.

Jayyous is one of the Palestinian villages in the West Bank that has been non-violently resisting the separation wall for several years now. It was clear to the villagers that this latest assault was an attempt to intimidate the protest movement.

Also earlier this week, Israel tightened still further the restrictions on Palestinian movement and residency rights in East Jerusalem, closing the remaining passage in the wall in the Ar-Ram neighbourhood of the city. This means that tens of thousands of Palestinians are now cut off from the city and those with the right permit will now have to enter the city by first heading north and using the Qalandiya checkpoint.

Finally – and this time, there was some modest media coverage – it was revealed that the Efrat settlement near Bethlehem would be expanded by the appropriation of around 420 acres land as "state land". According to Efrat's mayor, the plan is to triple the number of residents in the colony.

Looked at together, these events in the West Bank are of far more significance than issues being afforded a lot of attention currently, such as the truce talks with Hamas, or the discussions about a possible prisoner-exchange deal. Hamas itself has become such a focus, whether by those who urge talks and cooption or those who advocate the group's total destruction, that the wider context is forgotten.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/20/israelandthepalestinians-israeli-elections-2009

[Idealism]

1. It seems many people would rather deflect about the settlements than to face the truth

Many that I have read wish to obfuscate when it comes to the legality of some of these settlements, usually resorting to cries of anti-Semitism being ignored and that we all must rally around there message... Quite disturbing since the settlements and continuous annexation of Palestinian lands is one of the bigger (if not biggest) problem today between Israeli's and Palestinians.

[bemildred]

2. Mr White writes pretty well. nt

[azurnoir]

3. Of course we have not heard much about this

the West bank is the real prize Gaza is the distraction, it is that simple.

[pelsar]

6. perhaps if they didnt shoot rockets from gaza...

then theyre wouldnt be anything to write about...i guess hamas likes the news at the expense of their brothers in the westbank....you were referring to them correct?

[azurnoir]

7. no I was not referring to Hamas

are you surprised?

[Idealism]

8. This is about the West Bank, not Hamas, not Gaza.

Where did you get your silly idea that this article is about Hamas in any way?

Or are you saying that Israel lashes out at Palestinians in the West Bank to punish them for Hamas's actions?

[pelsar]

9. i was referring to the "distraction" of gaza....

since the news seems to be concentrating on gaza.....i guess that hamas and friends like the attention, hence they keep on trying to kill israelis. (and stay in the news)

the failure of gaza, its inhabitants and leadership to put their meager resources into building up a society is nothing less than a major misuse of resources, to put it mildly...they have better choices.....perhaps thats also why they are in the news.

Gaza remains their best chance to build a society based on their own values without the IDF on the necks.....they just have to stop trying to kill israelis from gaza, and return gilad...this seems to be a problem over there....which is also why its in the news, their choices are rather difficult to understand for many.

[azurnoir]

10. Perhaps you hadn't heard

"Gaza remains their best chance to build a society based on their own values without the IDF on the necks.....they just have to stop trying to kill israelis from gaza, and return gilad...this seems to be a problem over there....which is also why its in the news, their choices are rather difficult to understand for many."

Early last week the plan for a truce and the return of Gilad Shalit was in place and ready to go until Olmert his mind and dictated new terms, in fact the exact terms Hamas had previously said they would not agree to.

[pelsar]

12. those exact terms...

as i understand hamas demanded:

open borders forever
all prisoners freed forever
payment of 3 billion dollars
the right to kill israelis randomly



or perhaps you have a different list...because i actually never saw the agreement....will you link me to it?

[azurnoir]

14. Here is a link to a thread with at least 10 articles

on the subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x261238

Now as for your claims as to Hamas demands

"open borders forever
all prisoners freed forever
payment of 3 billion dollars
the right to kill israelis randomly"

do you have a link

[pelsar]

15. didnt find the link for the list of demands....

it wasnt in the posts.....so do you have another link, where i can learn of the hamas demands or israeli list

(havent heard them/read them either from the radio or print.....)

[azurnoir]

18. Ah ha right

so we should take your list being the accurate one, the terms that were being agreed to were in the links, but never fear your new government will never cave to negotiati demands

[azurnoir]

20. Sometimes "pack ratting" is a good thing

I found a list of Hamas demands I forgot I had

According to Haaretz this is what Hamas -- you remember them, the other side -- wants:

"1. The reciprocal truce would begin on Saturday and be followed by the immediate transfer of humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip.

2. The Israel Defense Forces must pull all of its troops out of the coastal territory within the first week of the truce.

3. The flow of trade in and out of the Gaza Strip must be renewed and monitored by observers from Egypt, Europe, and Turkey.

4. The Rafah crossing must be reopened and supervised by Palestinian Authority security forces and international observers, until a Palestinian unity government has been established and can take its place.

5. The truce would be instated for one year with an option for renewal."

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056134.html

[pelsar]

31. the list leaves out gilad...

hamas as far as i understand sees gilad as a separate issue, israel doesn't.......what the various exchange rate is, i believe has yet to be actually spelled out, though there have been endless reports from various sources.

and just for the record and i do believe its the general feeling amongst israelis, is that this whole concept of taking israelis, either dead or alive, holding them without any red cross, etc access has to come to an end:

meaning crossings all closed until gilad is returned....Hamas can return him anytime they want, stop the rockets (at least the vast majority) and get the borders opened, and give some hope and improve the lives of the people of gaza......its their choice and they appear to prefer that their own suffer.

ok, so maybe let the minimum of supplies in, so no one "starves" as they were before, but the tunnels keep getting bombed for every kassam that lands....until gilad is returned.

[wellst0nev0ter]

11. Israel Broke The Ceasefire First

Period, end of sentence.

[pelsar]

13. too bad hamas disagrees with you...but what do they know....

they're only the locals...the ones who agreed to the "lull" (thats the closest translation one can get from the arabic word used tahidiya-and it wasnt cease fire.)

i understand how the "westerners" dont really understand, nor accept the locals and their different language and culture, i get that. However it helps in understanding the conflict to accept that cultures are different and that they have concepts that dont actually translate directly to english...tahidya in fact is one of them.

BUT it does require respecting the locals.....neither hamas nor israsel saw the IDF raid as breaking the Tahidya....and it was they that agreed to it, so one might expect that they actually know what they agreed to...

unless of course the "great white ex imperialists know better"

[wellst0nev0ter]

16. Then Why Has The Israeli Media Translated The Ceasefire As A "Ceasefire"

Are you telling me they are also puppets of Hamas. And since Hamas responded to that raid with a deluge of rocket attacks, you know perfectly well that they did not take kindly to the raid.

Better hasbaraniks, please.

[pelsar]

17. i assume your reading the english editions...

they're called lazy translators.....

and hamas response (the rockets) in kind was also part of the tahidya.....if you were doing the reading you might have noticed that neither of the locals, the ones who agreed to the agreement, israel and hamas, NEITHER of them declared the "tahidya" over.....after the israeli raid nor after the hamas rockets.

next time you might try listening to what they have to say.(unless of course you know better)

in the end hamas decided not to continue the tahidya and didnt even mention the israeli raid a month earlier

[azurnoir]

19. Well someones is apparently lazy

because I just did a search on DU cross referencing your user name and the word tahidya and found that it is never mentioned during the "tahidya" and in fact is not brought up until January 22 2009, so I got really curious and Googled tahidya and found that for the most part it is again not much mentioned during the tahidya before and certainly after but what is curious is the definition

Hamas has three interpretations of how it should deal with Israel. There is the:-

- Hudna: a truce, which implies recognition of the other party's actual existence, without acknowledging its legitimacy.

- Tahidya: a period of calm or limited cease fire

- or the most favored, conflict.

http://israeliyoungreform.blogspot.com/

[pelsar]

21. so..you found the definition...good first step...

the ones who actually agreed to it Haniyeh (the leader of hamas in gaza.....)

try the spelling : tahadiya (its that english thing again....one has to be a bit flexible in understanding other cultures)

"tahadiya' truce with Israel ended officially on Friday morning"

[azurnoir]

22. thanks

I Googled tahadiya and found this

Gaza: Period of Calm - Tahadiya

The arrangement for a lull in the fighting
Overview

1. On June 17, 2008, at the end of several months of contacts between Egypt and Israeli and Hamas representatives, Egypt and Hamas separately announced that a lull in the fighting ( tahadiya ) 1 between Israel and the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip had been agreed on. According to the announcements, it was expected to go into effect on the morning of Thursday, June 19, at 06:00 Israeli time.


2. The lull, which was formulated by Egypt , will be in effect in the Gaza Strip for a period of six months , at the end of which it is likely to be extended to Judea and Samaria . The core of the lull is the cessation of the fighting in the Gaza Strip, which Hamas is obligated to enforce on the other Palestinian terrorist organizations which have stated that they have no objection to the arrangement (although some of them have reservations). The cessation in the fighting will pave the way for the reopening of the crossings between Israel and the Gaza Strip, put into motion the renewal of talks for the release of abducted Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, and eventually lead to talks about reopening the Rafah Crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip.

3. At this time the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center does not have a full, detailed, formal version of the arrangement. From what can be gleaned from Palestinian, Egyptian and Israeli media reports, the lull will be implemented in three stages:

i) Stage One : Three days after the lull goes into effect, Israel will open the Karni and Sufa crossings and allow the passage of basic commodities from Israel into the Gaza Strip.

ii) Stage Two : One week later Israel will permit the passage of most commodities into the Gaza Strip with the exception of those used in the manufacture of weapons.

iii) Stage Three : One week after that talks will be held about opening the Rafah crossing. Participants in the talks will include Hamas, Fatah, Palestinian Authority and European Union representatives. ( Israel 's status in such talks is unclear to the ITIC. Israel is also a party to the November 2005 agreement which regulated movement through the Rafah crossing).

http://www.rightsidenews.com/global-terrorism-archives/gaza-period-of-calm-tahadiya.html

BTW I also cross referenced you and tahadiya and found a couple more threads including one in which between you and another poster there were at least 3 or 4 different spellings of the word

[pelsar]

23. i cant spell in english...let alone an arabic word...

btw what you found is the only time i actually read about the agreement (nothing the hebrew papers)... Haniya (head guy in hamas in gaza) stopped the "lull" with the reason that israel didnt keep its word about the openings (video tape shown on israeli tv).....which is probably true, since israel probably started closing/opening them when the kassams were fired

[azurnoir]

24. sorry wasn't you in particular

it is just that with so many different spellings it's hard to pin down anything, BTW the most "creative" spelling of tahidya on the thread I mentioned was not yours, and I am admittedly spell check dependent and sometimes that doesn't help

As to the "terms" I thought that interesting that's why I posted it, first I had found

edited to add: are there even exact English-Arabic translation spellings? Same for Hebrew?

[pelsar]

25. english is used a lot...

you'll find english being used within hebrew and arabic for many terms...thats probably the only way to get an agreed upon definition......of course it gets rather interesting when i read a work in hebrew, dont recognize it, attempt to "sound it out" by the letters only to discover its an "english word". (l a p t op for instance took me 5 minutes to figure out that it was a laptop computer

[azurnoir]

26. So if you don't mind me asking

something I have wondered- assuming you learned Hebrew in "Hebrew School" after regular school in America did you have a hard time transferring that in to "conversational" Hebrew in Israel are there any real differences between the two?

[pelsar]

28. that made me laugh.....

though i did go to "hebrew school" i spent more time in the hallway, either because i was kicked out of class, or because i just didnt go in, in the first place. i went 3 days a week after regular school. My favorite day was when the bus dropped us off and me and my friend immediately turned around and started walking home....all 10 miles. We made it in time.

i picked up my hebrew in the "street"....and cant write very well.


but in answer to your question, the hebrew learned in the States is conversational hebrew, whats missing is the slang and ever present army slang/short hand

[azurnoir]

29. well I have heard Hebrew school Hebrew

and synagogue Hebrew and Israeli's speak Hebrew and to the "naked" ear they almost sound like different languages, perhaps its just that Israeli's talk faster, more flow if you will

the writting part would be interesting to learn though

[pelsar]

30. synagogue hebrew...thats praying....

thats "old hebrew" with the addition of a kind of music/melody to it.......different in tone, speed and character

[IndianaGreen]

4. West Bank residents rally against apartheid wall (Jayyous)

Here is an article on the OP posted by VC:

West Bank residents rally against apartheid wall

Friday 20 February 2009

RESIDENTS of the West Bank village of Jayyous rallied against the construction of Tel Aviv's "security barrier" on Friday, despite a major Israeli crackdown on protesters earlier in the week.

The barrier, which is widely known as the apartheid wall, encroaches three miles inside the West Bank and cuts off farmers from their lands.

The zionist settlement of Zufim is slated to swallow much of the annexed land near Jayyous and villagers have recently stepped up protests against the land grab.

Israeli soldiers raided Jayyous and rounded up at least 65 people on Wednesday morning.

Almost the entire youth population of the village has been put through makeshift interrogation chambers at the village school.

Some of them have allegedly been forcibly masked during interrogation and one youth had to be rushed to hospital after he suffered a psychological breakdown.

Residents report that soldiers also occupied 10 homes throughout the village and erected Israeli flags on each of these houses.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/world/west_bank_residents_rally_against_apartheid_wall

[LeftishBrit]

5. I fear this will only get worse if Bibi is able to form a government

[iconicgnom]

27. ah, you make me so cry, violet.