Settlers chop down Palestinians' olive, fig trees near Ramallah

[ProgressiveMuslim]

Ma'an News, May 5, 2009



This article was originally published by the Ma'an News Agency and is republished with permission.

Dozens of Israeli settlers chopped town Palestinians' olive and fig trees in the village of Sinjil, north of the West Bank city of Ramallah on Monday. Sinjil's Mayor Imad Abdullah Masalmeh explained that the settlers cut the trees owned by the sick father of four disabled children, Shawqi Hussein Ghafari.

The settlers also cut down olive trees owned by Ali Hussein Fuqaha, Adib Ali Fuqaha, Hussein Farhan Dar Khalil, and the family of Muhammad Yousef Khalil. The mayor explained that this village is frequently attacked by settlers, pointing out that five settlements and outposts encircle the community.

He added that the municipality formed a committee to defend the land from settlers and the expansion of settlements. He said large swaths of the town are threatened with confiscation as a result of settlement expansion. He appealed for the Palestinian Authority and rights-related organizations to support the farmers and put a stop to such practices.

http://imeu.net/news/article0016381.shtml

[LeftishBrit]

1. Disgusting.

[peacetalksforall]

2. To me the trees are as holy as any mosque or temple. And didn't the Israeli leader

say over the weekend that they want peace with the Arab world, making Iran an exception? Is Iran just a cover to get rid of Palestinians? I will hold this against Israel - the wound has been cut deeper. I feel disgust. Their leader has no integrity for truth.

[bunnies]

3. Assholes.

Youve got to be a real asshole to go around cutting down other peoples trees. If they were my trees, I'd be kicking some serious ass. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[varelse]

75. and then you'd be labeled a terrorist, or a militant, or a fanatic

and when your house was bulldozed, along with those of your four closest neighbors, the blame would be place squarely on YOUR shoulders.

[jaxx]

4. I wonder what kind of satisfaction the settlers get from chopping down trees?

Is cruelty satisfying? Has hate eaten the brains away and left nothing but ignorance?

[Howardx]

11. yes n/t

[IndianaGreen]

17. They are the Jewish Taleban!

They are the same kind of people whose religious zealotry brought about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.

[Ken Burch]

65. It's the settler's way of saying "this is OUR place, NOT yours".

All occupations end up morally destroying the occupiers. And no occupying party ever ends up making itself safer by extending the occupation.

[nathan_demojames_t]

87. Fucking cruel, but almost regular

Its almost pathetic. Uprooting an olive tree WHY :shrug:

[cali]

5. truly sickening

the settlers are disguting and these acts are criminal and drenched in hate.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

37. Shows a true disregard for the land they purport to love. Who uproots an OLIVE TREE? It's

beyond sick.

[Ken Burch]

60. The idea is, I think, that by uprooting the trees you uproot the people who planted them

It's a way of saying that Palestinians have no right to be there.

It's like when the British cut down the Great Oak of Portmore, a massive tree in what is now Northern Ireland, and cut it up to make ships for their navy, ships on which invading British troops arrived to subjugate the Irish. There was also symbolism in the act in that, in the ancient Celtic religion, oaks were said to have spiritual power.

[madrchsod]

6. common occurrence in the land of canaan

we dare not criticize their motives

[cali]

7. i don't see why not.

I don't think there's any doubt that these people- speaking of the settlers as a whole- entertain exterminist and ethnic cleansing thoughts. And that they aren't punished harshly by the Israeli authorities, demonstrates a willingness by the state to accomodate them.

[henank]

8. I'd like to see another source for this news

besides Maan or IMEU. I've googled and found nothing at all anywhere.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

9. Google 'settlers cut down tree." It's hardly a unique occurence.

[henank]

32. I did.

There's nothing from after October 2008. So where is there a reference to what allegedly happened on Monday, besides Maan?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

34. Why, when AP was the only source for the Orchestra plays for Holocaust survivors, did you not

"suspect" that story?

[Sezu]

10. Why do they ALWAYS do these things to

"sick fathers of three," and the like?

[cali]

12. you seem to be invested in trying to make this out to be propaganda

many of the settlers are simply disgusting crazy religious haters and there's ample evidence of their having committed acts like this. Why do you find it so hard to condemn?

[Sezu]

14. Of course they are and I do detest what they do but

SOMEONE needs to point out what I did so that propaganda gets identified. It sure worked here because no one else saw fit to mention that aspect of it. Nice little sheep.

[LeftishBrit]

13. Possibly it just gets greater publicity in such cases?

Whoever they do it to, they're still a nasty bunch of thugs.

[Sezu]

15. Well, you make a good point but the fact that it struck me

as rather common in these reports that the victims always seem to be suffering from some other hardship as well convinces me that it is something this type of press looks for or even makes up as we have seen in the past. This moves it into the realm of propaganda.And yes, the settlers are thugs.

[Ken Burch]

61. Is it not pretty likely that, when you've got a people living under military occupation

A large number of them WILL, in fact, be living under hardship? That a lot of them will be sick(since medical care will be in short supply and the access to health care facilities often blocked by the occupying troops) and that, since people living under occupation tend to marry and have children like people do everywhere else, it's relatively common for a person whose olive trees have been stolen to have kids?

The phrase you saw as propaganda because it is repeated is most likely repeated because, well, it pretty much reflects common reality.

[aranthus]

72. It's possible that they choose the infirm to attack.

The weak can't defend themselves so they are an easier target than young farmers who patrol their orchards.

[IndianaGreen]

16. A B-52 strike on the West Bank settlements would be a good idea!

It will more than make up for all of the bulldozing.

[cali]

22. well, you've just demonstrated that

you're as full of nutty and hateful ideas as those you're constantly railing against. Not that it wasn't obvious anyway.

[IndianaGreen]

23. Sauce for the gander!

Many of you were elated at Rachel Corrie's death .

[cali]

27. excuse me? who exactly is "Many of you"?

I mourned Rachel Corrie's death. I though she was a courageous young woman, so shove your lying accusations back in the place you pulled them from.

filthy and disgusting to try and tar me with being elated over Corries death. Unlike crazy haters, I don't rejoice over any violent death.

sick shit you post.

[LeftishBrit]

29. Many of whom?

I do remember *one* vile image being posted in relation to Rachel Corrie; it was not posted by a regular member of this forum, and aroused a shocked reaction from people on all sides of the I/P issue. There was another nasty post about her from someone who was obviously a troll. This does not mean 'many of us' here.

[IndianaGreen]

43. Go to one of the rabid pro-Israel websites

and you will find what I mean. Some of them still use the same screen names they used in DU.

[Ken Burch]

64. Go to the "International" section of the Guardian website.

you get some true psychos there on the I/P issue.

They had a whole thread where some asshole was mocking Tom Hurndall's mother for accepting compensation from the Israeli government after the IDF shot her son in the head for no reason.

[IndianaGreen]

81. Many of those wackos are American

A few years ago I read a lot of complaints on Guardian Talk about ill-mannered bloody Americans dominating the discussions.

[Violet_Crumble]

71. You joined DU over a year after she was killed...

There were quite a few posters who posted incredibly ugly stuff about Rachel Corrie, including two regular members of this forum (who were later banned over other issues) who called her things like 'pancake queen' etc. If I can find the link to the old DU I can give you links to some of the many threads this sort of thing happened in during that time...

[azurnoir]

73. The simple fact is that more than one regular posted that

Rachel Corrie was a spoiled brat who deserved what she got

[cali]

30. I see you lack, the courage to

retract your disgusting and false accusation about me. and don't pretend you weren't making an accusation.

not surprised you're running away.

[IndianaGreen]

42. "Many of you" as in pro-Israel side. Had I meant cali, I would have said "YOU."

Or do you have a reading comprehension problem?

[cali]

44. I'm not pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian or rather I'm

both. I don 't expect someone who has a limited ability to see beyond the simplest black/white, good/evil narrative, to grasp that. I don't expect people who spew hate and want to kill, maim and bomb, to grasp that some of us don't operate that way. I'm far, far more critical of Israel than of the Palestinians or their leadership, but you, of course, don't see that.

It's just pathetic. And anyone who wishes for any group of people to be bombed, is sick.

[LeftishBrit]

26. What a lovely progressive idea - you do realize that a lot of Palestinians would get killed too?

The Israeli government needs to end the settlements, and there should be American pressure to do so - but that doesn't mean a military strike.

Hasn't there been more than enough of that sort of thing already?

[cali]

28. some people are so consumed with hate they can't help themselves

[Ken Burch]

63. Well, that accounts for shira and aegis, but they haven't posted in this thread.

I don't think Indiana actually meant it literally. Still, the present situation is largely the fault of the arrogance of the settler movement.

[shira]

74. now I'm posting in this thread

If this story is accurate, it's disgusting and the criminals should be prosecuted.

Now why do you think I'm blinded by hatred? Or is this like some bogus allegation of antisemitism that is supposed to stifle dialogue? Can you back up your accusation with evidence?

[oberliner]

18. I also question the veracity of this story

The only source is one that has been notably inaccurate and decidedly biased in the past.

Any reputable news source would at least attempt to get some comment from someone on the Israeli side.

[IndianaGreen]

19. IOW, you haven't found the story in CAMERA, so it didn't happen

:eyes:

[oberliner]

20. CAMERA is a totally biased web site

Show me any source of the information in the OP that did not lift the story from the same Ma'an News article.

If the information in the OP is printed in any other source from anywhere in the world (including a secondary Palestinian source) that will be enough to assuage my concerns.

Ideally, that source would include some statement or at least an attempt to get a statement from one of the settlers or any Israeli government representative.

Is that not reasonable?

[LeftishBrit]

24. All these sources can be pretty biased and garbled

And both Camera and Ma'an have their biases.

However, chopping down trees has been reported on a number of occasions.

[oberliner]

31. As I mentioned - one additional source for confirmation would go a long way

This Ma'an source is using Arutz Sheva reporting techniques in this case.

[Ken Burch]

59. As has digging up trees from Palestinian land and replanting them on the settlements

n/t.

[azurnoir]

21. Are ypu questioning IMEU or Maan?

You have used the latter at least when the story casts Palestinians in an unflattering light
but here is the story from Maan

http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=37571

AS to comment from the Israeli side is that usual in these sort of incidences?

[oberliner]

25. Ma'an - IMEU lifted the story directly from that source

From the OP: This article was originally published by the Ma'an News Agency and is republished with permission.

I have cited Ma'an before for information pertaining to Hamas-Fatah relations as they seem to have access to more information on that subject than other regional sources. In those cases, they tend to have statements from officials on both side of that conflict.

As to this incident, other similar stories have surfaced over the years, and there is generally a comment from settlers (either denying that they cut down the trees or claiming that the trees actually belonged to them) and/or from the Israeli officials (some vague statement about how they will look into the matter).

[azurnoir]

33. the settlers talk to Maan?

in incidents where someone has come to physical harm or property was actually confiscated then yes the Israeli side has something to say, this was in the grand scheme a relatively minor incident and not an uncommon one.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

35. So why do you suspect Ma'an doesn't have this story correct when you generally trust them?

[oberliner]

36. They might have it right

I believe they generally do better with internal Palestinian affairs since (as the poster above mentioned) with Palestinian-settler issues they don't actually interview settlers to get their side of the story.

I would note that they do tend to have a pro-Fatah tilt when reporting on Fatah-Hamas disputes as well which I also try to take inot account.

With this particular item, one other story anywhere that corroborates this information is all I am looking for.

Ma'an News is not quite as reliable as the AP or Ha'aretz or Al Jazeera.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

38. Interesting POV. I find them to be pretty reliable. Much more so than say, the NYT, which has

totally fucked up reporting on several events of world-wide significance.

Is your problem with them that they speak Arabic?

[oberliner]

39. I certainly think the NY Times is more reliable than Ma'an

My problem with them has nothing to do with Arabic.

Just like my problem with Arutz Sheva has nothing to do with Hebrew.

I don't think either claims to be unbiased (whereas the NY Times does).

[ProgressiveMuslim]

40. I think you're making some pretty biased assumptions.

Just because Maan is located in Palestine, why do you assume they have different journalistic standards?

In fact, their standards are pretty damn clear:

As Maan News Agency clear states on its website:

Launched in 2005, Ma'an News Agency (MNA) publishes news around the clock in Arabic and English, and is among the most browsed websites in the Palestinian territories, with over 3 million visits per month. Considered the main source of independent news from Palestine, MNA has become the first choice for online information for many Palestinians, and is also attracting a growing international readership and interest from prominent international news organizations and agencies.



Ma'an News Agency is an integral part of Ma'an Network, a non-profit media organization founded in 2002 to strengthen professional independent media in Palestine, build links between local, regional and international media, and consolidate freedom of expression and media pluralism as keys to promoting democracy and human rights. Ma'an Network is a partnership between independent journalists throughout Palestine, including nine local television stations and nine local radio stations. In addition to MNA, its activities include television, video, and radio production, and training courses for Palestinian journalists and media personnel.



Ma'an News Agency offers up-to-the-minute professional news reports for local, regional, and international readers, as well as feature stories, analysis, and opinion articles by a range of authors. Like Ma'an Network, MNA scrupulously maintains its editorial independence and aims to promote access to information, freedom of expression, press freedom, and media pluralism in Palestine. Through its English website, MNA strives to convey a multi-dimensional picture of life in Palestine to a global audience, and to provide a forum for Palestinians to address the international community.



MNA covers Palestinian political, economic, cultural, and sports news from all sections of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, as well as developments in Israel. In addition to providing the latest national news stories and comprehensive local coverage, we regularly translate important items from the Hebrew press for our Arabic readers, and offer literary articles and features on topics ranging from Palestinian prisoners to economic development projects. To provide this comprehensive coverage, MNA maintains a network of trained correspondents and photographers in all the major cities in Palestine, who work in cooperation with the editors, translators, and other staff in our Bethlehem and Gaza City offices.



Recognising that people want access to the latest news in a variety of formats, MNA offers an SMS breaking news service to subscribers, allowing them to receive updates about critical events in Palestine through text messages in Arabic, English, or Hebrew. Currently we have agreements with Palestinian and Israeli mobile providers, and we hope to expand into new markets in the future. In addition, MNA provides a scrolling news bar that is displayed on Ma'an Network’s nine local TV stations.



MNA articles are accompanied by high-quality images taken by experienced photojournalists located throughout Palestine, and we offer high resolution digital photos for purchase through the Ma'an Images online portal. The Ma'an Images archive contains thousands of captivating pictures, with new images uploaded daily as our photographers continue to document political, sporting, cultural, and religious events in Palestine, as well as capturing the realities of daily life for Palestinians.



Ma'an Images clients include major news agencies like AP and Reuters, a variety of other media organizations and NGOs, and individual subscribers. Ma'an photographers regularly participate in regional workshops and exhibitions, and have won several prizes for their work, including first prize for best news series in the 2007 Israeli ‘Local Testimony’ photojournalism competition.



MNA was launched with generous funding from the Danish Representative Office to the Palestinian Authority (PA) and the Netherlands Representative Office to the PA, and Ma'an Network is deeply grateful to both offices for their support during MNA’s foundational period. Having established itself as the premier source of independent Palestinian news on the internet, Ma'an News Agency looks forward to serving the Palestinian and international communities for many years to come.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

41. I don't in fact compare Maan to the NYT, but given the grievous mistakes of our nation's "paper of

record"... I'd say Western journalistic standards leave a lot to be desire.

[Douglas Carpenter]

45. you are suggesting Ma'an is in the same category as Arutz Sheva - a far right, pro-extremist settler

and unabashedly bigoted sources? So by definition a moderate Palestinian source can only be compared to the most extremist of Israeli sources?

[oberliner]

46. Only in the same sense that Randi Rhodes is in the same category as Rush Limbaugh

Just because those two are both biased does not mean that Randi Rhodes is a bigoted extremist like Rush Limbaugh is.

When Ma'an News reports on a dispute between Palestinians and Israeli settlers they do not feel that it is necessary to include the POV of the settlers in their report or to get their version of what happened.

When Arutz Sheva reports on a similar type of situation they only present the settler perspective.

If either the NY Times, or Ha'aretz, or Al-Jazeera, was reporting on such a dispute, I do not think they would run an article that did not include an attempt to get information and statements from both parties.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

47. Here's a report from YnetNews.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3711655,00.html

While they're not unbiased, their strong anti-Palestinian bias means that if anything the presence of this story on their website makes it more convincing, I think.

[oberliner]

50. Thank you for posting this additional information

As long as these settlements continue to grow there can never be peace.

Time for Obama and company to press the issue.

[Douglas Carpenter]

48. but why on earth would you spend so much time trying to cast doubt on

a story - about settler violence against Palestinian olive groves when every credible human rights organization and every credible news source agrees that that this is exactly the kind of violence that the settlers have been carrying out for years? No sane or rational person denies this.

It someone like you posted a story that Islamic Jihad or another breakaway faction in Gaza fired some missiles toward Sderot - we don't read post after post attempting to cast doubt on the story because only Jerusalem Post reported it. Is Jerusalem Post less biased that Ma'an?

I think you are being disingenuous and simply playing the "Hasbara Field Guide" game of trying to score points.

When you can't put a positive spin on something - you try to muddy the waters.

[oberliner]

49. Do you honestly believe in what you are saying?

You think that I am consulting some kind of "Hasbara Field Guide" and playing some kind of game to score points? Even if you mean this in some non-literal euphemistic way, it could not be further from the truth. I know that this is the internet and everything, but I cannot express to you how off the mark you are with this perception.

Just because there has been settler violence against Palestinian olive groves in the past does not mean that every claim of another similar incident automatically must be true.

Is it really that much to ask of a Palestinian news item about the actions of Israelis to include some statement from the Israeli side?

[Violet_Crumble]

70. I must keep that in mind next time rockets are fired at Israel...

Just because there has been settler violence against Palestinian olive groves in the past does not mean that every claim of another similar incident automatically must be true.

Is it really that much to ask of a Palestinian news item about the actions of Israelis to include some statement from the Israeli side?

After all, if yr going to apply that sort of standard to violence committed by Israeli settlers, then you should apply the same to violence committed by Palestinian militants, right? ;)

[IndianaGreen]

51. Because oberliner wants to keep the facade that he/she is impartial

when in reality the poster's sympathies lie on the occupier's side.

[oberliner]

52. Total BS

Completely oppose the occupation and support the Geneva Initiative.

I've made that clear time and time again.

It is beyond bizarre that one cannot question the veracity of one article without being jumped on in this fashion.

[Tarc]

53. Spot on

Israeli apologists abound on the DU, unfortunately.

[oberliner]

55. Good lord!

My position on the I/P conflict is identical to Barack Obama's.

I'm sure Obama himself would be labeled an "Israel apologist" by some folks around here!

[Vegasaurus]

56. Obama has made it clear that he will never force Israel

to give up her security,

Some people on this forum would like to see Israel gone, or filled with 4.5 million "returned" Palestinians, or moved to Germany.

Obama, the democratic president of the United States, as well as all of his advisors, believes that Israel has a right to exist and maintain security.

Too bad that doesn't jibe with some "progressives" on this forum.

[Ken Burch]

62. The Occupation does nothing to protect Israeli security.

Any time you have an army on somebody else's land holding that other people at gunpoint, wherever in the world you are, that people will always resist by any means necessary. This is a universal truth.

If you want security, get rid of the settlements and accept a Palestinian state in all of the West Bank and Gaza, with compensation and apologies for those who won't actually get ROR.

[Douglas Carpenter]

57. Barack Obama happens to hold a job that by its very nature would restrict his public opinion

on any number of subjects. I no more expect the President of the United States to be make unrestrained comments about the Israel/Palestine conflict that I expect him to make unrestrained comments about his personal opinions regarding teenagers exploring their sexuality.

If the President of the United State holds personal opinions on any number of issues - especially politically sensitive and emotionally loaded issues - I fully understand that his position requires him to be very restrained on what he has to say and even more restricted on what public policies real political realities allow him to embrace. This is why there are far more "EX" senior officials calling for talks that include Hamas then their are ones currently holding office. For that matter, I'm sure their are more "EX" senior health department officials than currently serving ones who support legalizing marijuana or implementing single-payer universal health care. There are simple political realities that tie the hands and restrain the words of currently serving public officials.

Political realties require public officials, especially the most powerful and closely observed one in the world to very caustiously operate and to equally conservatively speak within certain highly restricted parameters.

Anonymous posters on the Internet are free to say whatever they will, restricted only by their own conscience and their own personal sense of propriety. An anonymous Internet poster certainly is not required to be only as progressive as someone holding the most politically powerful job in the world whose every utterance can send political shock waves around the globe.

[oberliner]

66. I support Obama and the positions he has espoused on the conflict

That is all I am saying. The positions that Obama ran on and the positions that he continues to promote vis-a-vis the conflict are in line with my views on the subject.

I would think, therefore, that those positions would be more than welcome at a site that is partially devoted to helping Democrats like Obama get elected.

Allow me to quote Biden's speech at AIPAC (where he himself was reiterating Obama's position):

"The world must continue to make clear to Hamas that the legitimacy it seeks will only come when it renounces violence, recognizes Israel, and abides by past agreements -- period."

What percentage of I/P'ers (or DU'ers generally) would concur with those sentiments?

I would contrast that with the words of RWer Pat Buchanan:

“(Israel) triggered a blitzkrieg against the Palestinians in Gaza, which in my judgment is an Israeli concentration camp.”

I see more of the Buchanan perspective than the Biden perspective around here from time to time and that seems strange to me.

[Douglas Carpenter]

68. Mainstream Democratic Party publications and websites now reflect

a view much more critical of Israeli state policy and much more supportive of the justice for the Palestinians than what one generally sees in the Democratic Party political leadership. This was not the case only a few years ago. But now publications and websites as diverse as American Prospect, salon.com, the Nation, Huffington Post, Washington Notes and even the websites of Democratic Party oriented think tanks such as the very centrist New America Foundations are all advocating a more progressive view of the conflict than the current Obama administrations.

I can support President Obama in general and appreciate the fact that he has moved toward a balanced view on the Israel/Arab conflict more than any American President in the past several decades while still recognizing that there is still a ways to go before American policy can seriously be viewed in the broader world as that of an honest broker. One can also recognize the realties of political pressures that restrict the administration from doing and saying all that it may very well recognize what should be done and said. This is not unique to the Israel/Palestine issue - it is simply the nature of politics, particularly when their is an overwhelmingly asymmetrical degree of influence held by one party in this conflict in the corridors of power.

This is hardly a symmetrical conflict in which two parties hold equal degrees of power and influence - nor is their a moral equivalency between occupied and occupier.

Advocacy from below is one of the few ways to push the policy in the direction of one that will actually contribute to creating the conditions for a just and lasting peace. To constantly make excuses while the Israeli state continues to coddle the rejectionist and frequently violent settlers while expanding, expanding and expanding the settlements, is to only encourage Israeli intransigence and to work against peace.

[oberliner]

69. I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about

There is no doubt that there are publications espousing positions to the left of Obama on this topic.

My only claim is that I myself share his views and I do not think they ought to be classified as "Israel apologist" positions.

I support the end of the occupation and the establishment of a Palestinian state next to Israel under some framework similar to what is laid out in the Geneva Accords.

[Howardx]

58. clearly on the occupiers side

the facade cracked long ago.

[oberliner]

67. Yes you caught me!

Hooray for the occupiers!!

[LeftishBrit]

83. Because there is obviously no room for any nuances.

'Whoever is not with me is with the terrorists' or in this case 'Whoever is not with me is with the occupiers'. Same sort of mindset.

[wurzel]

86. What difference would it make to you if it is true? nt.

[Howardx]

54. deforestation is a progressive value

dont you know.

[TimesSquareCowboy]

76. I don't understand distinguishing between the settlers and the government.

One does the others work and vice versa.

[BunkerHill24]

77. Ding, ding, we have a winner

Excellent point timesSquareCowboy.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

79. Those trees were planted by the Palestinians and symbolize their place on the land

The idea of uprooting them is to say to Palestinians "You have no right to be here, you exist only to provide us with cheap labor, you are nothing". You can't really be dismissive of something that offensive to a people. No Palestinian farmer could actually have done anything to deserve having his olive grove destroyed.

[LeftishBrit]

80. It's not the trees but their owners

Olive growing may often be their livelihood. At any rate, it's THEIR trees, and no one has the right to chop them down.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaGreen]

84. Olive trees RAWWWKKKKKSSSS!

Typical vapid response by the referenced poster.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.