Israel's double standards over Haiti

[Violet_Crumble]

Seeing as how many people want to talk about Israel when it comes to Haiti, I figured I'd add to it ;)

Seth Freedman
guardian.co.uk
Friday 22 January 2010 10.30

Almost as soon as the IDF embarked on its aid mission to Haiti, accusations began flying that the Israelis' objectives were of a sinister rather than humanitarian nature. Some accused the country's leaders of trying to divert attention away from their behaviour towards the Palestinians, others went as far as claiming that Israeli doctors were engaged in stealing the organs of dead Haitians.

On the other side of the fence, diehard supporters of Israel trumpeted the relief efforts as definitive proof that Israel was a light unto the nations, some even claiming that Israel was acting on behalf of world Jewry, rather than just the Israeli people:

We believe that it is a Jewish duty to help the people of Haiti. As the representative of the Jewish people, the State of Israel is leading the relief effort... we are not only helping Haitians with their tragedy, but uniting the Jewish world and demonstrating the Jewish values of the State of Israel.

It is almost impossible for any news story connected to Israel to exist in a political vacuum, thanks to the nature of Israel's conflict with the Palestinians and the global polarisation resulting from the hostilities. In the context of Israel's assistance to Haiti, however, credit should be given where it's due: Israeli rescue teams' efforts have been second to none, and their staff have shown true humanity in a time when it is so desperately needed by the victims.

Israel's response to the Haitian earthquake is only the latest in a long line of noble deeds when it comes to disasters around the world: 140 countries have received aid from Israel's state-run Mashav humanitarian relief division, including Turkey, India and El Salvador after earthquakes brought devastation to their shores. Israel's foreign affairs ministry borrows a Biblical quotation to describe Mashav's work:

If there be among you a needy man, one of thy brethren, within any of thy gates, in thy land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thy heart, nor shut thy hand from thy needy brother" Deuteronomy 15:7

However, for all that Israel's sterling work overseas deserves to be praised, it highlights the lack of compassion shown by the country's leaders to those suffering on its own doorstep. Israel's insistence on doing next to nothing to alleviate the suffering in Gaza while rushing to Haiti's aid exposes just how far they are prepared to stray from the religious teachings to which they claim to adhere. Likewise, when Zionist movements such as Bnei Akiva trumpet the achievements of Israel's relief teams as representative of the entire Jewish people, they inadvertently tar all Jews with the same brush when Israel's frequent violations of international law are brought to light.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/22/israel-haiti-relief-palestine

[Billy Burnett]

1. Could you post this in the Latin America forum too? Thanks.

Home » Discuss » Places » Latin America
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=405



:hi:

[Violet_Crumble]

3. Hi Billy. Thanks for posting the link to that forum. I'd never been in there before...

Now I've got it bookmarked and might start lurking.

btw, not too sure whether we're allowed to post articles like this one which are specifically about the I/P conflict in other forums, but feel free to repost it if you want to...

[Billy Burnett]

7. Violet. Go ahead and post it there. That way you'll get a warm welcome from the nice folks there..

:evilgrin:



:hi:

[Violet_Crumble]

8. I've already said I'm not posting it there...

Please stop asking me to do it. Go and post it yrself...

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

4. I think that article makes a very good point.

and I don't think it's hateful to post it.

[shira]

18. Peddling in Israel-Bashing

http://cifwatch.com/2010/01/22/peddling-in-israel-bashing/

[Violet_Crumble]

29. Oh, please. Change the record. It's not hate, nor was it bashing...

And why are you posting a link to a bunch of ugly comments on a blog for? We're supposed to be impressed by the irrational fervour?

[Violet_Crumble]

6. It's hate to post an article?

But then again you are the same person who runs round DU bleating that any criticism of Israel is antisemitism.

Why don't you try reading the article before turning up and attacking other posters who don't worship Israel unquestioningly the way you do? I don't hate Israel just because I don't approve of the occupation or their treatment of Palestinians...

[polly7]

14. I thought it was rather a blatant double-standard also,

but I guess, if they're helping the Haitian people 'those actually doing so' are deserving of a huge thank you and pat on the back. It doesn't lessen the impact of what they're subjecting millions of Palestinians to, but right now I'm sure the Haitian people are grateful.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. There's a lot of those sorts of double standards when it comes to relief efforts...

Israel isn't alone in that regard. I remember seeing a thread in GD imeediately after the earthquake where someone asked why the US was helping Haiti but couldn't help the homeless. They're correct in pointing out that the homeless in the US is an issue that needs to be addressed, but to link it to the earthquake and basically say they didn't think aid should happen till the US helped people domestically was incredibly disgusting and wrong. If I'd seen someone say that Israel shouldn't help in Haiti until they'd helped the Palestinians, I'd find that equally disgusting, but I haven't seen that yet. I have nothing but admiration for those Israelis who've been there helping, but that admiration doesn't extend to the Israeli govt, which has clearly been using it as a PR tool, and which is a nasty hardline RW govt that I wouldn't praise if my life depended on it...

[stray cat]

5. They put most other countries to shame and came further and quicker than any other

Well Done! I can give credit where credit is due even though I don't agree with everything someone or a country does

[Violet_Crumble]

9. They did not put most other countries to shame. It's not a competition...

I think you missed the point of the article...

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. No, the earthquake's not a competition and it's disgusting that you feel it is...

Why would anyone announce what you did?

You have some weird obsession with telling me I lost. What exactly am I supposed to have lost?

on edit: you mentioned chain-pulling in another thread. I just thought I'd give you an example of how easy it is to pull yr chain. It's a rare person I see sink into insults and blind rage so quickly the way you did :)

[aranthus]

12. It's unfair and wrong to call it a double standard.

Haiti isn't at war with Israel. Haiti never sent its people into Israel to kill Israelis. The government of Haiti hasn't ever called for Israel's destruction. Haiti is suffering because of a natural disaster. Gaza is suffering because Palestinian leaders, including the elected Hamas, have lead the Palestinians into a war with Israel for sixty some years. Sure, suffering is suffering, but the reasons for the pain are completely different.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. No, it's not at all wrong...

The people of Gaza aren't at war with Israel and they aren't responsible for the actions of their militants, nor are they responsible for what Israel has done to them. There is a double standard when the Palestinian people get treated like that and whether the disaster is man-made or not makes absolutely no difference. While what Israel has done in aid to Haiti is great, it in no way absolves Israel of responsibility for the terrible way it's treated the Palestinian people...

[hack89]

22. The people of Gaza are not responsible for their elected government?

why not? If Hamas is waging war then by definition the people of Gaza are waging war.

[azurnoir]

23. that sound so good rah rah they did it to themselves

except that well they didn't quite do that now did they?
Quick review here Abbas and his party Fatah were elected to lead both Gaza and the West Bank and Hamas won a majority of the seats in the Palestinian Parliament that governed again both Gaza and the West Bank
How Hamas came to be the ruling party in Gaza is that there was a power coup between Hamas and and the American armed and trained {under Bush at the time) Fatah in Gaza and Fatah lost, the details of this are in dispute but the basic fact is that the people of Gaza did not elect Hamas to rule them

[hack89]

24. So Hamas has no popular support?

is it your contention that they are in essence a dictatorship? Perhaps Israel can do the people of Gaza a favor by liberating them?

[pelsar]

25. Hamas is a dictatorship....

they are the "party of god" so its quite doubtful that gods chosen will allow for elections that endanger their views and power....Hence the problem. israel cant really interfere to change their govt. Interfering is always a very risky business, who knows what would be the result. The gazans are basically screwed, nobody is really going to help them rid themselves of hamas and friends, not the egyptians, not the left, not the western govts.

and hamas, if they keep on trying to kill israelis, will only make their lives even more miserable......if they go to far, they might cause a second invasion, which no doubt would endanger their own hold on power, so they will probably keep it on a "low flame". And Egypt?..egypt just wants to have a peaceful sinai peninsula which is full of tourists, that means keeping the gazans closed up, since hamasnikim and their friends in the muslim brotherhood would no doubt take advantage of an open border.

the gazans are screwed.

[azurnoir]

31. It is not contention it is fact

and your question about whether or not Hamas has popular support is really a non-sequitur

[hack89]

33. So is Hama a recognized government entity

or is it an independent entity beyond the control of the legitimate Palestinian government? If it is the latter, why can't the Israelis attack them this no one else seems able to stop them?

[Violet_Crumble]

35. Did you ignore what pelsar posted? Hamas is a dictatorship...

Do you need a link to pelsar's post? I'm finding the way yr asking a barrage of questions that are all aimed at justifying attacking Palestinian civilians to be a rather clumsy sort of debate tactic, btw...

[hack89]

37. So Israel is justified in seeking out and destroying Hamas

assuming of course, that no civilians are killed?

I could give a shit what you think, btw...

[Violet_Crumble]

38. If you don't care what I think, then don't ask so many fucking silly questions...

Pelsar had answered the question you asked even before you asked it. Try reading the thread instead of sitting there flinging out endless 'questions'.

In case it hasn't sunk in, I'm revolted by any attempt to justify attacks on either Israeli or Palestinian civilians. I really hope you do reconsider yr stance, as it really is disturbing...

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

40. Why are you still asking weird questions?

I'm not even sure what the purpose of that question is. Would you mind explaining?

Sorry, but in insisting that the civilians are at war with Israel and insisting that they're responsible, you are justifying their mistreatment and attacks on them. There's no other way to explain that sort of attitude.

Israelis choose leaders that make stupid choices and occupying territory that isn't part of Israel is a really stupid choice. I wish they had made smart choices but they haven't...

I said that line above because it's a mirror image of what yr saying about Palestinians. Do you see now what the problem is with what yr saying?

Another suggestion for you. Read the rules. Even if there wasn't a rule about civility, you should be able to self-police yrself and refrain from personally attacking other posters...

[hack89]

41. Why are you still answering them? nt

[hack89]

42. I agree that Israel has made poor choices

there is plenty of blame to go around. Still doesn't change the fact that the Palestinians have always chosen war against a stronger opponent. War is not neat and surgical - innocents get hurt on both sides.

We know that it is possible for both sides to live in relative peace - there was a time when there were no walls and Palestinians were able to earn a living wage in Israel. So what changed? The Intifada of course. The Palestinians chose war and the walls and economic isolation were the result - along with the end of terrorist attacks in Israel. The Palestinians have convinced most Israelis that they can never be partners in peace. Now you seem to believe that the average Palestinian cannot be held responsible for this state of affairs - OK. But then you need to explain who is responsible - Fatah? Hamas? And if Hamas and Fatah do not represent the views of the Palestinian people then who is Israel to make peace with?

[azurnoir]

43. At the moment Hamas seems to have been

recognized as the government in Gaza as to being stopped Hamas seems to be stopping itself and others

Hamas to Gaza militias: Stop firing rockets at Israel

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x297954

[Violet_Crumble]

27. No more than you were for yr elected government...

Be very careful if yr going to head in that direction, because unless yr going to single out the Palestinian people (and that would be bigoted), you'll find that logic leads you to a very nasty conclusion when it comes to American civilians....

Let me be very clear with you. The civilians of Gaza are NOT at war with Israel and it's sheer lunacy to claim they are. What you are trying to do is something very ugly, which is to justify mistreatment and attacks against civilians. Such thinking would also lead to an acceptance of mistreatment and attacks against Israeli civilians...

[hack89]

28. So if people elect and support governments that wage war

they have no responsibility for the outcome? What ever happened to "We the People."? Aren't the actions of democratically elected governments reflective of those that elected them? Or are you arguing that since Hamas is non-democratic in nature, they don't reflect the desires of the people of Gaza?

[Violet_Crumble]

30. Was there something you weren't able to comprehend about the post yr replying to?

Read it again, and ask yrself whether the same applies for Israelis or Americans during the Bush era. I for one would be very interested to know if yr singling out Palestinians or are being consistant and applying the same standards to Israelis and Americans as well. So, which is it, hack89?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

34. Ah, so it's okay to kill and mistreat civilians only if it suits you...

I bet yr going to try to trot out some sort of illogical argument to claim that Americans and Israelis aren't responsible given that disclaimer of yrs at the start of yr post. Either way yr attitude is totally repellent and disgusting. If yr including Israeli and American civilians in that, then that's still revolting and you'll find that those who support attacks on Israeli civilians don't last here long before attracting a tombstone. I wish I could say it's as rapid when it comes to supporting attacks on Palestinian civilians, but unfortunately it takes a lot longer, but their time comes eventually...

I suggest very strongly to you that you spend some time rethinking what is an absolutely revolting and RW position, and try to understand why it's never justifiable to attack civilians or to mistreat them....

[hack89]

36. OK nt

[shira]

16. delete

[shira]

17. delete

[shira]

19. For bigots, Israel can do no right

As most objective observers throughout the world marvel at Israel's efficiency and generosity in leading the medical aid efforts in Haiti, some bigots insist on using these efforts as an occasion to continue their attack on the Jewish state. Both the neo-Nazi hard right and the neo-Stalinist hard left cannot help but to demonize Israel, regardless of what Israel does.

The neo-Nazi Web site ReportersNotebook.com features a blog entitled The Zionization of Disaster Relief. It accuses Israel of "exploiting the suffering of poor, defenseless Haitians on behalf of Israeli Triumphalism." It complains that Israel is rendering medical aid to Haiti only to deflect attention from its crimes against the Palestinians.

The hard left, even in a Israel, complains that Israel should not be sending medical assistance to such a faraway place. Instead it should be sending it to nearby Gaza.

Even The New York Times, in an otherwise thoughtful analysis of the controversiality of the aid among some Israelis, failed to note the difference between Israel sending its limited resources to faraway Haiti and to nearby Gaza. Haiti is not at war with Israel. Haiti has not pledged itself to Israel's destruction. Haiti has not fired 8,000 rockets at Israeli civilians. Gaza, on the other hand, has a popularly elected government that has done and continues to do all of the above. Moreover, there is no comparison between the tens of thousands of Haitians who have died from a natural disaster, and the people of Gaza who suffer far less from what is, essentially, a self-inflicted wound.

Nor do the perennial enemies of Israel emphasize the comparison between tiny and resource-poor Israel, on the one hand, and the enormous and resource-rich Arab and Muslim nations, on the other hand. While Israel digs deeply into its treasury and manpower to send medical assistance a quarter of the way around the world, Arab and Muslim nations are generally missing in action when it comes to relief efforts. This is true not only in Haiti, which is a Catholic nation, but it was equally true when tsunamis and other natural disasters have devastated Muslim nations.

For those who argue that Israel is sending this aid to Haiti for its own selfish reasons, there are two answers. First the realpolitik answer: All nations have interests; and all act, at least in part, out of self interest. When the United States government is asked by Americans to justify its multibillion dollar foreign aid grants, it generally responds by arguing that these grants are serving the interests of the United States. When it comes to Israel, however, a double standard is always applied. Israel must act only out of altruistic motives, while all other countries are entitled to leven altruism with self interest. The second answer is that Israel is doing far more in Haiti than would be required to satisfy its self interests. It is sending more aid per capita than any country in the world. It is doing it with extraordinary efficiency and real impact. Isn't it at least possible that the millennia-long Jewish tradition of tzadakah - that is, charity based on justice - is at least part of the explanation for Israel's generosity?

The fact that so many Israelis are advocating medical and other assistance to Gaza, certainly supports this latter theory. Has any other country in the history of the world ever provided medical and other assistance to a people with whom it is at war - to people who continue to support rocket attacks and other forms of terrorism against its own civilians? Again, a double standard. The reality is that Israel will be extremely generous to the people of Gaza if and when they stop supporting attacks on Israeli civilians, stop making martyrs of their suicide murders, and stop encouraging their children to don suicide vests. Contrast Gaza with the West Bank, which today has an improving economy, better travel conditions and among the best health care available in any Arab or Muslim country in the area. The peace dividend the Palestinian people will reap from making peace with Israel is incalculable.

So continue to criticize Israel when it fails to live up to generally applicable international standards, but praise it when it exceeds those standards in rendering aid that has saved and will continue to save many lives. Israel will continue to send disaster relief regardless of how the world reacts to it because Israelis understand how it feels to be subject to disasters. But fairness requires that Israel not be condemned for its humanitarian efforts, and that its rendering of aid to Haiti not be used as yet another occasion for applying a double standard to its actions.

http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/dershowitz/entry/for_bigots_israel_can_do

[shira]

20. Hamas is to blame for Israel's failure to aid Gazans

First, let's remember some facts before criticizing the relief mission for the victims in Haiti. Israel and the Israel Defense Forces gave Gazans the option to be treated at a field hospital near the Erez crossing (both during Operation Cast Lead and afterward). Who prevented this? That's right, Hamas. The IDF transferred hundreds of thousands of tons of food and medical aid to Gaza even while Qassam rockets and Grad missiles were falling on schools and the hospital in Ashkelon. Hamas intercepted these deliveries. The reason that more missiles and explosives - rather than food and medicine - are smuggled through tunnels connecting Gaza and Egypt is, once again, Hamas. The group is also preventing the import of critical building materials to refurbish damaged infrastructure, oddly claiming that this is not one of its priorities. This is all intended to perpetuate the ruin in Gaza. Also, Hamas prefers to invest in rearmament rather than civilian infrastructure.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1144667.html

[shira]

21. Despicable Seth

Despicable Seth
January 23, 2010 in Uncategorized | Tags: Antisemitism, Comment is Free, Guardian, Seth Freedman | by Hawkeye
This is a guest post from Joy Wolfe

It was only a matter of time before praise for Israel’s effort in Haiti was turned into a chance to attack her – What kept you so long Seth?

Perhaps the only surprising thing about Seth Freedman’s despicable attempt to diminish the efforts of the Israeli search and rescue and medical in Haiti is that he restrained himself for a whole week.
It is not Israel who is indifferent to the suffering of the Palestinian people, it is their own leadership who, for the past 61 years, have deliberately deprived them of a decent standard of life and any benefit form the millions of dollars of international aid that should have guaranteed them statehood and, proper living conditions and all the benefits of peace.

But irrespective of that, to accuse Israel of double standards when she goes to the aid of disaster victims, fully equipped and ready to get straight on with the rescue effort, is truly contemptible. There is a long catalogue of disasters where Israel has been at the forefront of the mercy missions and it is not to gain brownie points or recognition. The Israelis put themselves in physical danger when risking their lives to save victims, and subsequently provide medical attention and care that is second to none. Amazingly, the international media has fully recognised the quality and quantity of Israel’s aid. It is hard to comprehend the sheer scale of the field hospital that was set up in such a short space of time. But Seth Freedman seeks to highlight the tiny minority of sick minds who tried to diminish this effort, even making obscene allegations that only appeared in little known outlets, but he needed to give them more exposure. Watching the dedicated medical teams at work, seeing and hearing the gratitude of the Haitian people whose lives they touched, makes the thought of the accusations totally reprehensible.

If it it wasn’t for people like Seth Freedman it would be perfectly possible for news stories connected to Israel to just tell their stories without any baggage. That should certainly have been the case when it came to Haiti. But true to form Seth and the Guardian could not resist cheap unfair comparisons with the alleged Israeli lack of compassion for the Palestinians.

To say Israel has done next to nothing to alleviate the suffering of the Palestinians is so far from the truth. Israel has stood willing and able to do so much, but has been stopped by Hamas and successive cynical leaders who wanted them to retain their “refugee status”. Even when at war Israel continued to send in supplies to Gaza, and still does so on a regular basis, despite crossing points being bombed and humanitarian aid being stolen by Hamas.

Hamas also prevented Gazans from travelling to a medical centre set up by the Israelis by the border.

Israel continues to give medical treatment to many Palestinians in Israel and during Operation Cast Lead treated many injured Palestinians. It is sad to say but I can’t imagine that happening if it was Israelis needing Palestinian aid.

Finally I do not subscribe to the concept that it is in Israel’s best interests to strangle the Palestinian economy. On the contrary it is in the best interests of peace for the Palestinians to develop a vibrant strong economy with the people being able to sample the benefits of peace. It is mpossible to understand why the first thing the Gazan people did when it was ethnically cleansed of Jews was to destroy much of the infrastructure and the greenhouses that would have provided a livelihood and employment for so many of their people.

I suggest Seth Freedman takes a long hard look at who is really responsible for the undoubted suffering of the Palestinians. I also suggest that he does not use Israel’s amazing efforts in Haiti as a stick to beat them with.

http://cifwatch.com/2010/01/23/despicable-seth/

[Violet_Crumble]

26. I thought you said you'd put me on ignore, Shira...

Then again, you also said you were leaving DU for a long time. Can I take it that I should take what you say with a huge grain of salt? ;)

Not sure what the flood of frenzied posts from sites such as the one above are supposed to prove. You and the lunatics at that place yr linking to don't appear to notice or care that Seth is praising Israel for what it was doing in Haiti. That's not good enough, is it? What Israel is doing in Haiti is supposed to give it a free pass from any criticism of its treatment of the Palestinians altogether, something that lunatics like them will try to deny is being done by anyone. So thanks for posting a very clear example of someone using the earthquake as a PR tool.