Joe Biden and George Mitchell arrive to kick-start Israeli-Palestinian talks

[Violet_Crumble]

The US vice-president, Joe Biden, is due in Israel tomorrow for an American diplomatic initiative to start indirect negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

The new round of so-called "proximity talks" could be announced as early as tomorrow, but there is scepticism on both sides about the chance of any agreement. George Mitchell, the US special envoy to the Middle East, will shuttle between Israeli and Palestinian leaders for four months hoping to find common ground. Although the talks are low-key, they mark the first return to a peace process since Israel's war in Gaza more than a year ago.

Mitchell flew into Israel on Saturday night and met with Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, for 90 minutes. He saw Binyamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, today and will meet Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas tomorrow.

Mitchell's team will handle the talks, while Biden's visit is reportedly focused on trying to win Israeli support for the US administration's policy on Iran and on discouraging Israel from any military action against the Iranian regime over its nuclear ambitions.

Abbas won the support of the Arab League and today the executive committee of the Palestine Liberation Organisation to go ahead with the talks. Yet they represent a partial climbdown for the Palestinian leader, who for a year has insisted there will be no talks with Israel without a full halt to the construction of Jewish settlements on occupied Palestinian territory. However, construction continues, with Israel offering only a limited, temporary halt that expires in a few months.

In a speech on Saturday in Ramallah, in the occupied West Bank, Abbas warned the peace process had "almost reached a dead end. The Israeli government continues to procrastinate to gain time and strengthen its control of the occupied territories to prevent any realistic possibility of establishing an independent, viable … state of Palestine," he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/07/joe-biden-israel-palestinian-talks

[applegrove]

1. Best wishes to Palestinians and Israelis.

[Scurrilous]

2. Israel okays W.Bank settler homes despite moratorium

<snip>

"Israel has approved the construction of 112 new homes in a Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank in spite of a partial moratorium on such building, a minister said on Monday.

The expansion was revealed hours before the arrival of US Vice President Joe Biden and one day after the Palestinians agreed to indirect talks with Israel while warning that further settlement growth threatened the peace process.

Israeli Environment Minister Gilad Erdan said the project in Beitar Illit settlement near Bethlehem was an exception to a partial halt on settlement expansion announced in November.

"At the end of last year, the government decided to freeze construction, but this decision provided for exceptions in cases of safety problems for infrastructure projects started before the freeze," he said.

"Such is the case in Beitar Illit," he told army radio.

Israel's continued expansion of settlements is one of the biggest obstacles to the resumption of peace talks with the Palestinians, now suspended for more than a year despite months of US-led shuttle diplomacy.

The Palestinians condemned the latest move and called on the United States to intervene to halt the expansion."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jtR1UrlFr2M4VhFz_r8yOjnpjESA

[ProgressiveMuslim]

3. I challenge all liberal Zionists here, who blame this conflict on "extremists" to be honest

enough to put this blame where it lies.... at the feet of a democratically elected government.... the jewel of the Middle East...

This is not extremism, people. This is the face of Zionism. This isn't settlers shooting up a mosque. This is government POLICY. Constantly expanding land grabs, settlement, colonial activity.

This is Zionism in action.

How in the name of heaven can this activity be going on the eve of the US showing up to try to get peace talks going??

[LeftishBrit]

8. Taking your challenge...

I have never thought that the problem is 'just a few extremists'. I think that on both sides, the relative proportion of hawks vs doves is generally close to 50-50, and all sorts of things can tip the balance in one direction or the other.

'put this blame where it lies.... at the feet of a democratically elected government....'

I do.

'This isn't settlers shooting up a mosque. This is government POLICY. Constantly expanding land grabs, settlement, '

Indeed. The policy of a right-wing government, oppressive to the Palestinians, and counterproductive to Israel.

'This is the face of Zionism.'

Here's where we part. Zionists need not be pro-occupation, and many are not. I would say instead: this is the face of the Likud, and this is the face of pure proportional representation, which makes it almost impossible to have *any* government that doesn't include RW elements.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. Has there been a left wing gov't since 1967 that didn't expand settlements?

I disagree with your characterization of this as a right-wing phenom.

[LeftishBrit]

13. See my last line on that...

'pure proportional representation... makes it almost impossible to have *any* government that doesn't include RW elements.'

Although there have been some left-*led* governments since the 1970s, I don't think there have been any exclusively LW governments, or governments that didn't depend on RW parties for their survival.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

12. Depends what you mean by "occupation".

The foundation of Israel was an act of occupation in itself; occupation of territory that had been Arab-inhabited for millenia was and is the whole point of Zionism.

On the other hand, it's entirely true that Zionists need not support the occupation of land outside the Green Line. There are only a tiny number who don't, but they do exist.

I also think your 50/50 is grossly overoptimistic. In the last Israeli election, doves took about 10-20% of the Jewish vote if you count Labour (which under Barak I don't think you can), or about 5% if you don't, with another 35% going to hawks (Kadima, Labour under Barak) and about 60% going to ultrahawks. I haven't totally given up hope on Labour - I think it likely that some if not all of the voters are less hawkish than the party line - but at present a vote for Labour is a vote for Barak, and hence for continued occupation.

[Tripmann]

4. Cool, we'll get to see how serious both sides really are about peace

[Donald Ian Rankin]

5. We already know that.

The Israelis aren't interested; the Palestinians are but don't see any point talking until the Israelis are.

[ncguy]

6. Because people

always shoot missiles when they want peace.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

9. People under military occupation usually do, yes. N.T.

[ncguy]

14. And then

they keep shooting them after the occupation leaves?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

15. No, which is why there is hope for peace.

However, the Israeli occupation of Palestine still continues in force. But, if it ever were to finish, it seems likely that so would Palestinian violence against Israel.

I guess (apologies if I've misinterpreted) that what you're hinting at is that the Palestinians should view the withdrawal from the Gaza strip (10% of the occupied territories) as a reason to stop trying to reclaim the other 90%; if so I'm afraid I don't think this is a sensible point of view.

[azurnoir]

7. Israel 'risking peace talks' with West Bank building

The move comes as the US announced that Israel and the Palestinians had agreed to hold indirect talks.

Meanwhile, US Vice-President Joe Biden has arrived in the region, becoming the highest-ranking US official to visit since Barack Obama took office.

Israel had promised a 10-month pause in settlement building in the West Bank, not including East Jerusalem.

Israeli officials said construction was approved before the moratorium was declared.

However the announcement will place strain on the already fragile agreement to talk, Palestinian negotiators say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8555300.stm

[IndianaGreen]

10. More PR rubbish!

Let's spot the bullshit together, shall we?

to start indirect negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

No face-to-face negotiations means that we are having the same crap we have had for years in which Israel and PA just talk past one another, and nothing happens.

The new round of so-called "proximity talks"

Proximity fuses come to mind! Who's the idiot that coined that stupid phrase?

Biden's visit is reportedly focused on trying to win Israeli support for the US administration's policy on Iran and on discouraging Israel from any military action against the Iranian regime over its nuclear ambitions.

If Israel is convinced that Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapons program, it would be negligent to fail to act. Is there anyone in here that is willing to trust the Iranian regime?

Abbas warned the peace process had "almost reached a dead end.

I think a more accurate description of the peace process is that it has become mummified!

The Palestinian leadership wants an independent state in Gaza and the West Bank, with a capital in East Jerusalem.

How nice! Possession is nine-tenths of the law, the old adage goes, and Israel is holding all the cards. As long as the United States continues to enable Israel's Occupation, the only thing left for the Palestinians is either to go into armed resistance or accept whatever crumbs Israel is willing to give them.

The I/P conflict has gone beyond the tipping point. No Israeli government can survive if if abandons East Jerusalem. Removal of the settlers will trigger a civil war.

Let's declare the I/P peace process the failure that it is, just as the War on Drugs and the War on Terror have been.

Let's begin our disengagement from the region.

"If the talks are held in the planned indirect format, they are not going to lead anywhere," wrote Shimon Shiffer, a columnist in the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper. "They are going to lead neither to increased trust between the leaders nor to final status arrangement talks in the near future."

The most truthful statement in the entire piece, and a statement none of us will see in the American press!

[Scurrilous]

16. Israel OKs 1,600 new homes in east Jerusalem

<snip>

"Israel has approved the construction of 1,600 new homes for Jews in east Jerusalem, threatening to cloud a visit by Vice President Joe Biden.

The Interior Ministry says the units will go up in the neighborhood of Ramat Shlomo, in the part of the city Palestinians claim for a future capital.

Israel has annexed east Jerusalem and refuses to restrict building there. The Palestinians and the international community regard construction there as settlement activity.

The decision comes as Biden is visiting the area to kickstart peace talks. Israel and the Palestinians agreed this week to renew talks after 14 months of deadlock."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/09/AR2010030901355.html


Erekat: More settlements every US visit

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3859746,00.html

Palestinian President Abbas meets with American special envoy Mitchell for five hours, demands that Israel stop embarrassing him with new settlement construction plans. Palestinian source estimates talks damaging leadership's reliability

<snip>

"Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said Monday evening following a meeting between Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and US special envoy George Mitchell that "the Palestinians made it clear to Mitchell that if the Israelis increase the settlements, raids of cities and assassinations during each of his visits to the region, this casts a serious doubt over the American peace efforts."

The remark was made as the United States released an official statement saying that Israel and the Palestinians have agreed to launch indirect talks mediated by Mitchell.

US Vice President Joe Biden, who landed in Israel on Monday afternoon, is expected to hold meetings with Israeli, Palestinian and Jordanian leaders in the coming days.

The Palestinians have agreed to resume the negotiations indirectly in principle, but have asked Mitchell for several clarifications and demanded that Israel stop embarrassing the Palestinian Authority with announcements on new construction plans in the West Bank."

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. Biden: East Jerusalem plan undermines peace talks

Israel's decision to approve 1,600 new homes in an ultra-Orthodox East Jerusalem neighborhood is undermining Middle East peace talks, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden said in Jerusalem on Tuesday.

Earlier Tuesday, the Interior Ministry approved the building of 1,600 new housing units in Ramat Shlomo, with a ministry official saying the plan will expand the ultra-Orthodox East Jerusalem neighborhood to the east and to the south.

"I condemn the decision by the government of Israel to advance planning for new housing units in East Jerusalem," Biden said.

The American vice president added that the "substance and timing of the announcement, particularly with the launching of proximity talks, is precisely the kind of step that undermines the trust we need right now and runs counter to the constructive discussions that I?ve had here in Israel."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155171.html

[IndianaGreen]

18. Exclusive: U.S. vows to assign blame if Israel-PA talks fail

This is a good time to resurrect a thread posted by VC on tObama Administration's boast that the US will get tough on those that subvert the peace process. Here is the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x304209

Wake me up when the US assigns blame!

[Ken Burch]

19. Biden and Mitchell might need to LITERALLY kick some people

to get these negotiations going.