Hamas to execute suspected Israeli spies in Gaza

[oberliner]

GAZA CITY — The Islamist Hamas movement which rules Gaza said on Wednesday it would soon begin executing people convicted of spying for Israel despite objections from human rights groups.

"The death penalty will be implemented for (Israeli) agents who have been sentenced to death, regardless of the position of rights groups that reject these kinds of sentences," Hamas interior minister Fathi Hammad said.

"The near future will witness the carrying out of the death sentences," he said in a statement.

The Hamas-run government said the sentences had been handed down in the last two months, with some alleged informers given prison time.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j3VzMOiEUSugr0hMAcdyJA3XBr5w

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

2. You do realize that this is about Hamas executing Palestinians as well as Israelis

Both 'Israeli spies' and 'collaborators'.

Not that I'm a fan of the death penalty, whoever is involved.

[Ozymanithrax]

3. Then you probably think we should simply line up prisoners in Gitmo and gun them down?

To paraphrase you...
Those fucking Islamic terrorist have to learn that there are consequences for their actions...

Of course, you are assuming that the Palestinian fathers, mothers, and children they kill are really Israeli spies and not just people caught in a witch hunt or turned on by some neighbor that doesn't like them. Hamas are not killing an Israeli Jewish James Bondstein and putting him against the wall after seducting beautiful and dangerous Palastinain women.

[LeftishBrit]

4. Great points, I fully agree

Most of the people killed are Palestinians, who might possibly really be 'collaborators' but just as likely happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

24. I do not support the death penalty ever. I also think collaborators are the scum of the earth.

Don't assume just because you don't like Hamas that these individuals are not collaborators.

[LeftishBrit]

27. They could or could not be. I believe in 'innocent till proven guilty' and I don't have a lot of

faith in Hamas' ability to 'prove' such things fairly.

Just as *some* of the people in Guantanamo might really be terrorists, but I still don't trust the system that sent them there.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proteus_lives]

6. Israeli agents or people who defied Hamas?

Either way, it's unsurprising.

[Violet_Crumble]

8. Yeah, the death penalty is totally barbaric n/t

[proteus_lives]

9. For certain types of political crimes, yes.

For other crimes, it's totally appropriate.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. The death penalty's never appropriate n/t

[proteus_lives]

12. I disagree.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. I already know you do n/t

[proteus_lives]

15. Then why comment?

[Violet_Crumble]

16. Because I'm voicing my opinion. I'm allowed to do that? n/t

[proteus_lives]

17. Sure.

Just like how I'm allowed to ask a question.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. Great. Glad that's all sorted out...

I know I'll sleep easier tonight...

[proteus_lives]

19. Don't let bed-bugs bite.

I'll bet their huge in Australia.

[cali]

20. the dp is always wrong and sick, sick, sick.

[IndianaGreen]

7. Hamas will rule any future Palestinian state with an iron hand, like Ahmadinejad in Iran

Something to look forward to, isn't it?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. Unlikely, I think.

A lot of Hamas's support is due to the fact that many Palestinians believe (sadly, quite rightly, I suspect) that there is no chance of establishing a Palestinian state by peaceful means, so they might as well try armed struggle.

If, by some miracle, they were to be proven wrong and a state were to be established, that would in itself prove that Fatah/the PA had been right all along, and I suspect a lot of Hamas's support would evaporate.

[proteus_lives]

14. Their support from the mainstream would evaporate.

But would they go?

They have the weapons and the power. What if they decide that elections and such are no longer needed? Who is going to force them out?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

23. Fatah, the Palestinian people, the US, Israel, Egypt in that approximate order?

Hamas have more weapons than anyone else in the Gaza strip at present, but that isn't saying much, and as far as I can tell (I may be wrong) their power is pretty much by default.

[pelsar]

21. dont you have it backwards...just a bit

so they might as well try armed struggle.


i think i missed the time when there was no "armed struggle"...perhaps enlighten me?
-----

[kayecy]

22. In case you have forgotten.....1900...before the mass immigration occurred....

...i missed the time when there was no "armed struggle"...perhaps enlighten me?

About 1900 before the Zionist mass immigration occurred......Selective amnesia can be very convenient when viewing the I_P conflict.

[pelsar]

28. its not amnesia.....i suspect you dont know your history very well....

i guess your talking about the period when the unarmed, idealistic socialistic jews legally immigrated, bought land legally and pissed off the locals by doing so.....and were then attacked by them...are you talking about that period?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

26. Get real Pelsar. In spite of the fact that occupation has always been murderously violent

to its victims, there has NOT always been any real widescale violence in return.

[pelsar]

29. and what period was that?

that there is no chance of establishing a Palestinian state by peaceful means, so they might as well try armed struggle.

come on...that has got to be one of the most absurd statements from someone knowledgeable about the subject that i've read here....."might as well try armed struggle?...what the hell were they doing since the 1900's?


to clarify your point:
its was only wide scale during intifada I (and as we know it was very limited violence)..even intifada II was far more selective in its violence and far more violent

[ProgressiveMuslim]

30. As a member of the occupation implementation force, I'm sure you can answer your own question.

Really, do you expect them to go like sheep?

[pelsar]

32. that was not the claim...was it?

the claim was clear that: violence was somehow a last resort.....its pretty basic historical knowledge that violence has not been a "last resort".

as far as what i expect out of the Palestinians?...nothing, its not my place, nor my culture to "expect anything out of them. Intelligent choices, learning from history etc are always good things, but i expect nothing out of them

[ProgressiveMuslim]

33. Oh, I'd say they've learned from history indeed.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

25. Actually, those who voted for Hamas in the last elections.. who had not been affiliated with

Hamas prior to the election did so, not so much to support armed struggle, but because Fatah-led PA had become unbearably corrupt.

It was by and large a protest vote, the force and vehemence of which shocked even Hamas.

Interesting that the US continues to back the corrupt party that was voted out when the people clearly made their choice.

In any democratic state in the Arab world, I suspect there will also be religious parties, just like their are in Israel. I don't have a problem with religious parties per se, so long as they abide by the rule of law.

[whosinpower]

31. A least they have convictions

Even if the whole thing is a farce -

extra judicial assasinations however.......

Having said that - death penalty is abhorrent - regardless of who the ruling party is, what nation, or what reason.

[oberliner]

34. PCHR Expresses Deep Concern Regarding Official Statements on Death Penalty Application

in the Gaza Strip

The Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR) is deeply concerned regarding statements by officials in the Gaza government on the implementation of death sentences against persons convicted of collaboration with the Israeli security services or willful killing. PCHR reiterates its professional and moral stance against the death penalty.

http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6328:pchr-expresses-deep-concern-regarding-official-statements-on-death-penalty-application-in-the-gaza-strip-&catid=36:pchrpressreleases&Itemid=194

[Jefferson23]

35. The death penalty is a terrible choice, better if they were to expose

the collaborative means they are accused of using.

[ConsAreLiars]

36. The death penalty is always wrong, whatever the alleged crime and whatever

the system used to implement it, sharia, 11 US jurors, some magistrate. To its credit, Israel has used the death penalty very, very rarely. But it is still on the laws, and as the religious crazies and cowardly righties gain more power it is likely to be become more common.

The following is from http://www.jlaw.com/Briefs/capital2.html . As you can see, it only applies to non-Jews or those who aid or commit offenses again the Jewish people. Not to those who murder Muslims or or Arabs or Palestinians. The source is boasting about the just nature of Israeli law.

.....
II MODERN APPLICATION OF JEWISH LAW IMPLEMENTS THE SAME PRINCIPLES OF HUMANITY AND CONSIDERATION

The State of Israel has abolished capital punishment for all offenses other than genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, crimes against the Jewish people, and treason in wartime.
.....

[LeftishBrit]

37. 'Crimes against the Jewish people' refers here to Nazis

Israel has never used the death penalty in court against Arabs or Palestinians accused of terrorism (one could of course argue that some of the responses that they *have* made, such as bombing Gaza, are worse) so your implied double standard is just wrong.

In fact, Israel has used the death penalty twice in its history. Once was the court martial and execution of Tobianskii in 1948 for treason during the War of Independence. I believe that it later turned out that he was innocent and had been framed for another person's crime (one of the world's many innocent victims of the finality of the DP). The other - and only person executed by the sentence of a civilian court - was Adolf Eichmann. I am against the DP in all circumstances, but Eichmann would not be top of my sympathy list here.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. I wasn't aware of that second instance of the DP being used...

Probably because it was a military one and not civilian, I guess. Anyway, I just popped in to add that while there are assuredly whackos in Israel who'd love to see the DP used, I'd place a bet that it would never happen. And if whackos took control of Israel, if the laws didn't exist, they'd just reinstate them anyway. I think what exists now is more a symbolic type thing. It wasn't used against Barghouti, for instance, and I don't know what the feeling is in Israel, but here at least there's universal opposition to the DP on both the Left and the Right, so it wouldn't surprise me to find it's the same in Israel....