Desmond Tutu "Divesting From Injustice" (from HuffPo)

[Recursion]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/desmond-tutu/divesting-from-injustice_b_534994.html

It was with great joy that I learned of the recent 16-4 vote at UC Berkeley in support of divesting the university's money from companies that enable and profit from the injustice of the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land and violation of Palestinian human rights. Principled stands like this, supported by a fast growing number of U.S. civil society organizations and people of conscience, including prominent Jewish groups, are essential for a better world in the making, and it is always an inspiration when young people lead the way and speak truth to power.

Despite what detractors may allege, these students are doing the right thing. They are doing the moral thing. They are doing that which is incumbent on them as humans who believe that all people have dignity and rights, and that all those being denied their dignity and rights deserve the solidarity of their fellow human beings.

I have been to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and I have witnessed the racially segregated roads and housing that reminded me so much of the conditions we experienced in South Africa under the racist system of Apartheid. I have witnessed the humiliation of Palestinian men, women, and children made to wait hours at Israeli military checkpoints routinely when trying to make the most basic of trips to visit relatives or attend school or college, and this humiliation is familiar to me and the many black South Africans who were corralled and regularly insulted by the security forces of the Apartheid government.

In South Africa, we could not have achieved our freedom and just peace without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the Apartheid regime. Students played a leading role in that struggle, and I write these words of encouragement for student divestment efforts cognizant that it was students who played a pioneering role in advocating equality in South Africa and promoting corporate ethical and social responsibility to end complicity in Apartheid. I visited the Berkeley campus in the 1980's and was touched to find students sitting out in the baking sunshine to demonstrate for the University's divestment in companies supporting the South African regime.

[subsuelo]

1. He's right, you know. n/t

[shira]

2. What happened to Tutu? Racially segregated roads? Checkpoints due to apartheid?

The roads are Israeli vs. Palestinian.

Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs can use those "racially segregated" roads.

The checkpoints didn't exist until the 2nd Intifada when suicide bombings were at their peak. Of course, this doesn't warrant any mention.

This is nothing but hateful propaganda.

[azurnoir]

3. How many of those so touted

for convenience purposes only Israeli Arabs actually live in the "settlements" that those roads connect?

[shira]

4. Are the roads racially segregated or are these roads based on nationality?

on edit:

You realize that even if one Israeli Arab uses these roads, that's proof against Tutu's claim?

[azurnoir]

7. answer my question please or does the truth here embarrass

and why would Israeli Arabs be using those roads? so they can get to menial labour jobs in the settlements? it is hardly proof that Tutu's claim is wrong especially when even in apartheid South Africa Blacks were allowed into White areas for those purposes it was still apartheid

[shira]

8. There are no restrictions for Arab Israelis who wish to use those roads for any purpose

[azurnoir]

10. your still avoiding the question

are Israeli Arabs allowed to live in the settlements?

[shira]

14. the question is baseless

And yes, Israeli Arabs are allowed to live in the settlements. All Israelis are.

[azurnoir]

15. Really which ones name them n/t

[shira]

18. All of them. How do any of them point to segregation based on racism?

[azurnoir]

19. Lol nice try Shira however are we really to believe

that the same group that routinely uproots Palestinian olive and generally harasses anyone in their path that is one of them and in general does their utmost to keep tensions with the Palestinians inflamed welcomes non=Jewish Israeli-Arabs who at least according to Pelsar are also Palestinians
but give me a figure here how many non-Jewish Israeli Arabs live in the settlements, you see for Mizrahi Jews really do not count as the group commonly know as Israeli Arabs

[shira]

21. Some settlers who hate Arabs have nothing to do with Israeli law which does not discriminate...

....against Arabs who wish to live in the settlements.

Tell you what - why don't you point to Israeli policy or law that doesn't allow for Arabs to live in the settlements? Can you do that? And if not, why not?

Edit to add...

Check this out:


Arabs buying houses in the settlements:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZyEmn4wjnY

Another narrative buster, hmm? ;)

What kind of racist, apartheid state is that???

[azurnoir]

24. the youtube vid stated that Israei Arabs

are trying to purchase houses in the settlements not that they have been successful in doing so, besides are west bank Palestinians allowed to do this?

[shira]

26. In the video from Al Jazeera, they interviewed an Arab already living in a settlement

What kind of racism and apartheid is that?

W.Bank Palestinians are of another nationality entirely. One that is still at war with the state of Israel.

It's not about racism, it's nationality.

And to prove that, here's an article in which Israel approves settlement housing for both Jews and Arabs in E. Jerusalem.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2009/12/28/Jerusalem-approves-Arab-housing-units/UPI-81171262005573/

So is that an example of racism and apartheid?

[azurnoir]

30. yes in the already Arab area of Silwan a whole 500 units

On maps issued by the Israeli government and organizations, part of what Palestinians and others consider to be Silwan is labeled City of David (Ir David in Hebrew). Since Israel gained control over East Jerusalem in 1967, Jewish organizations have sought to re-establish a Jewish presence in Silwan. In 1987, the Permanent Representative of Jordan to the United Nations wrote to the Secretary-General to inform him of Israeli settlement activity; his letter noted that an Israeli company had taken over two Palestinian houses in the neighborhood of al-Bustan after evicting their occupants, claiming the houses were its property.<16> Wadi Hilwe, an area of Silwan close to the western wall of the Old City, wherein lies the neighborhood of Al-Bustan, has been a focus of Jewish settlement.

Ir David Foundation, a settlement organization<17><18><19><20> which Haaretz says promotes the "Judaization" of East Jerusalem,<21> and the Ateret Cohanim organization, are working to increase Jewish settlement in Silwan in cooperation with the Committee for the Renewal of the Yemenite Village in Shiloah.<22> In 2003, Ateret Cohanim set a precedent in the neighborhood, building the seven-story Beit Yehonatan development (named after Jonathan Pollard) without a permit; four years later, the courts ordered the eviction of the tenants,<23> but after a few months the city of Jerusalem approved the construction retroactively.<24> Building on ongoing housing construction in conjunction with archaeological excavation, in 2008 the Jerusalem municipality began "the process of approving a plan for a new housing complex, including a synagogue, in the heart of the Arab neighborhood of Silwan".<25>
Housing demolition and squatters

In the 1980s, Haaretz reports, the Housing Ministry "then under Ariel Sharon, worked hard to seize control of property in the Old City and in the adjacent neighborhood of Silwan by declaring them absentee property. The suspicion arose that some of the transactions were not legal; an examination committee...found numerous flaws." In particular, affidavits claiming that Arab homes in the area were absentee properties, filed by Jewish organizations, were accepted by the Custodian without any site visits or other follow-up on the claims.<26> Under the cover of the Absentee Property Law, and indirect land sales, Jews have seized Arab homes while their occupants were still living there.<27> In other cases, the Jewish National Fund has signed protected tenant agreements with ElAd , allowing the settler group to engage in construction without going through the tender process.<28>

In 2005, the Israeli government stated that it would demolish 88 Arab homes in Al-Bustan neighborhood built without permits<29> but were never found illegal in a municipal court.<30> As of 2004, more than 50 Jewish families live in the area,<31> some in homes acquired from Arabs who claim they did not know they were selling their home to Jews,<32> some in Beit Yehonatan, and some squatting in homes from which Arab families were evicted.<33>

According to the Zionist left-wing organization, Rabbis for Human Rights, ElAd has "created a method of expelling citizens from their properties, appropriating public areas, enclosing these lands with fences and guards, and banning the entrance of the local residents...under the protection of a private security force."<34> The Israeli organization Ir Amim expresses concern that "Jewish presence in the heart of Palestinian centers in East Jerusalem creates facts on the ground that may hurt the possibility of any future peace agreement....Ir Amim is also concerned that the presence of security forces in Palestinian neighborhoods will be increased in order to provide security for Jewish settlers. This presence cannot improve the already tense atmosphere in the area."<35>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silwan

I edited a statement that Israel has approved 1399 Israeli units for Silwan that is inaccurate but worth a read is this

http://palestinenote.com/cs/blogs/blogs/archive/2010/04/17/jerusalem-occupation-discrimination-and-colonization-an-answer-to-jewlicious-com.aspx

[shira]

34. Yes, 500 settlement homes for Arabs bought and paid for by the GOI

What kind of racist, apartheid policy is that? If 500 homes isn't enough to prove anything to you, how many would be?

Also, East Jerusalem is, in your opinion, a settlement in occupied W.Bank territory where both Jews and Arabs live and there are no "segregated roads" there, right? Not a really ideal situation like the mess in Sheik Jarrah, but it appears you are the type who is pushing for apartheid by wanting to separate the 2 groups of people.

Remember this stabbing of an IDF soldier in the W.Bank 2 months ago?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/10/israeli-soldier-stabbed-t_n_456706.html

That IDF soldier in his jeep was Arab and he wasn't on any Jew-only, segregated road.

[azurnoir]

40. so as IDF or in reality IOF

the soldier was allowed to be killed protecting the Jewish state I;m impressed not

[shira]

41. LAME. (nt)

[azurnoir]

43. once again you "spit" and run away n/t

[shira]

46. As time passes, your posts become increasingly more nonsensical.

[azurnoir]

48. ah ha LOL actually the whole discussion is tiresome

what Israel is practicing in the OPT is apartheid really there is no discussion

[shira]

37. Al Jazeera: "Hundreds of Palestinians are buying or already living in Israeli settlements"

Look 2:40 into the video and you'll hear this.

Also at 4:10 in, you'll find an Israeli Arab who has lived in the settlement Pisgat Ze'ev the past 10 years and her Jewish neighbor who has no issue with it.



Pretty difficult to argue segregated roads and apartheid, isn't it? ;)

[azurnoir]

39. Nope it is not it is hard to prove Apartheid

as you noted or claimed Israeli Arabs not Palestinians

[azurnoir]

25. Time to say goodbye / this is your posting is it not

The world does not recognize Israel’s sovereignty in east Jerusalem, and now the United States forbids us from building there. However, Israel is paying a dual price: It’s not recognized as having rights in the city’s Arab sections, yet at the same time it financially supports the residents of these areas.

We offer welfare payments, allowances, medical services, pension plans, education, infrastructure, and all the other social benefits accorded by law to 250,000 Palestinians, most of whom reject Israel and view themselves of part of a future Palestinian state, should one be established.

As we applied Israeli law to these areas, the Arabs who live there enjoy the status of resident, they get an Israeli ID card, and they can freely travel across the country, with all the terroristic and criminal implications this entails. We are dealing with thousands of people who have no attachment or connection to Israel, and whose inclusion within Israel was a historical mistake.

The time has come to correct it now; this absurd situation cannot go on any longer. Fortunately, these people boycott the local elections in Jerusalem, which they do not recognize. Had they participated in the vote, they could have taken over city hall.

more...
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3876517...

eta to add DU link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x310475

[shira]

28. and what's the point of posting this?

[azurnoir]

29. You seem to be promoting stripping these same people

of Israeli citizenship

[azurnoir]

32. Correction you "seem" to be promoting the stripping pf Israel

ID cards they were never afforded citizenship also they are not allowed to vote as is stated in this from your OP snip

The time has come to correct it now; this absurd situation cannot go on any longer. Fortunately, these people boycott the local elections in Jerusalem, which they do not recognize. Had they participated in the vote, they could have taken over city hall.

When Israel annexed East Jerusalem and the towns and villages surrounding it, it gave Palestinians living there a status of "residents" and not citizens. This is a major point. Residents cannot vote in the general elections, they are not issued Israeli Passports; they cannot buy apartments or houses on state land (which makes most of the land in Israel and almost all the land in Jerusalem). If they leave Jerusalem for more than 7 years they lose their residency permit, and are left without any civil status; and because of the new citizenship order, they cannot live in East Jerusalem with partners who are not residents as well. If a Jerusalem Palestinian marries a woman from nearby Ramallah or Bethlehem, he can't bring his wife to live at his home.

http://palestinenote.com/cs/blogs/blogs/archive/2010/04/17/jerusalem-occupation-discrimination-and-colonization-an-answer-to-jewlicious-com.aspx

[shira]

33. I posted an article - I'm not promoting anything

However, I would think that someone like yourself would applaud Israel pulling out of E. Jerusalem and leaving it to the Palestinians to run for themselves.

[azurnoir]

38. Oh gee is that what this means

The time has come to stun the world while safeguarding our real Jerusalem; that is, the Old City and its immediate vicinity. There is no need for more; in fact, more is less. Once we put an end to the social benefits, we’ll see the population growth rate, which had proven very beneficial for Palestinians, slow down as well.


http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3876517.

so East Jerusalem and the Old City are 2 completely different things is that what your saying?

East Jerusalem refers to the parts of Jerusalem captured by Jordan in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and then taken by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War. It includes Jerusalem's Old City and some of the holiest sites of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, such as the Temple Mount, Western Wall, Al-Aqsa Mosque, and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. The term "East Jerusalem" may refer to either the area under Jordanian rule between 1949 and 1967 which was incorporated into the municipality of Jerusalem after 1967, covering some 70 km2 (27 sq mi), or the territory of the pre-1967 Jordanian municipality, covering 6.4 km2 (2 sq mi).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Jerusalem

[shira]

42. see #41

[azurnoir]

44. try as you might you can not prove that there is no apartheid

you post misleading articles try to equate Israeli Arabs with Palestinians none of it flies there are two sets of people living in the same area with 2 sets of laws being applied to them period

[shira]

45. logical fallacy - "you cannot prove you don't beat your wife". Try again.

So who are these 2 sets of people for which 2 sets of laws apply?

Israelis (including Arabs, many of whom self-identify as Palestinians) vs. Palestinians who are not Israeli?

That's not apartheid or racism.

It's one nationality vs. another.

[azurnoir]

47. That's not apartheid or racism. It's one nationality vs. another.

lol what a perfect answer it says so much but do look up the definition of apartheid if you can post the whole definition not just the part that suits your need

[shira]

5. Polls show Israel's government is the one most admired by Palestinians in the world

"Yet since 1996, Dr. Shikaki has been polling Palestinians about what governments they admire, and every year Israel has been the top performer, at times receiving more than 80 percent approval. The American system has been the next best, followed by the French and then, distantly trailing, the Jordanian and Egyptian.

In its early days, the Palestinian Authority held fourth place, with about 50 percent approval. Now, it is dead last, under 20 percent. Corruption, mismanagement and the stagnation of the Palestinian predicament have turned the culture of criticism against the Palestinian rulers."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/02/international/middleeast/02LETT.html?pagewanted=1

Helluva statistic for a racist apartheid state, eh?

;)

[azurnoir]

6. the entire article should be read albeit it's 7 years old

as the snippet misrepresents the entirety of what the article actually says

keep in mind it was 7 years ago and things have changed a bit since then

[shira]

9. knee-jerk cries of racism and apartheid existed 7 years ago

What would you say to a more recent poll showing the same opinion?

[azurnoir]

11. as I said the entire article should be read your snipette was misleading n/t

[shira]

13. nothing misleading about it - but it does blow apart the false narrative of true believers

[azurnoir]

16. the 7 yearold article was not about Palestinian

approval of the Israeli government but indeed about Palestinian dissatisfaction with the leadership of Arafat your snippet was indeed misleading

[shira]

17. How desperate can you possibly be to avoid the facts?

"Dr. Shikaki has been polling Palestinians about what governments they admire, and every year Israel has been the top performer, at times receiving more than 80 percent approval. The American system has been the next best, followed by the French and then, distantly trailing, the Jordanian and Egyptian".

For 7 years running, the government most admired by Palestinians - up to 80% of Palestinians - is Israel and it's even more admired than the USA government - in fact more than all other governments of the world. So what does that say about all other countries supposedly more proper, ethical, and not as discriminatory as Israel, like the USA, Britain, France, etc.? They must all really suck in comparison, right?

;)

[azurnoir]

20. Can you do anything besides misrepresent

your statement is not even supported by your bolded snippet

[shira]

22. Explain clearly how I'm misrepresenting a situation that you refuse to acknowledge.

[azurnoir]

23. LOL shira do you think t nothing but your snip is being read?

I acknowledged the real subject of the article and your "inaccuracy" as to what the twice posted in bold snip says that anyone with the ability to read at a 4th grade level can plainly see

[shira]

27. The context does nothing to detract from that snippett, which shows the vast majority of...

....Palestinians favor the "racist, apartheid regime" of Israel over any other government in the world.

[azurnoir]

31. Occasionaly more than 7 years ago n/t

[shira]

35. So why would 80% say that 7 years ago, and what makes you think anything has changed since?

[Violet_Crumble]

36. Not to mention there's no link provided to the actual poll to see what the questions were n/t

[Recursion]

12. Thank you; just checking the lobby's reflexes.

Carry on. Point made.