The humanitarian show

[shira]

The humanitarian show
By BEN-DROR YEMINI
07/11/2010 23:54

Maybe Turkey, Lebanon and Iran need their own flotillas.

Additional humanitarian aid flotillas from Lebanon, Iran, Libya and the West may be en route to the Gaza Strip as we speak. But it seem that the plight of the Turks, Iranians and the Palestinians in Lebanon is far worse. Here are the facts.

Turkey was the most prominent country in the recent Gaza-bound flotilla. The Mavi Marmara with members of the IHH, an organization affiliated with global jihad, sailed from that country. Lebanon is dispatching a ship that is due to arrive perhaps in the coming days. Even Iran, that bastion of humanitarian justice, is joining the party. Thus, it is worth checking what is happening in these compassionate countries, which are showing such noteworthy generosity in dispatching humanitarian aid to an “oppressed” population.

Infant mortality is one of the most important indicators in gauging a humanitarian situation. And according to the data, Turkey is in worse shape than Gaza. Infant mortality in Gaza is 17.71 per thousand; in Turkey it is 24.84. The Gaza Strip is in a much better situation than the global average, which is 44 infants per 1,000 births. It is also better than most of the Arab countries and several South American countries, and is certainly better than Africa.

Life expectancy is another important indicator. And here, life expectancy in Turkey is 72.23, whereas in the Gaza Strip it is 73.68, much higher than the global average of 66.12. In comparison, life expectancy is 63.36 in Yemen, 52.52 in Sudan and 50 in Somalia. These countries are crying out for international attention, for aid, for any rescue ship. But none come.

more...
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=181118

[shira]

1. Glasgow East vs. Gaza (from the article)

"Regarding population growth, the Gaza Strip is ranked sixth, with a growth rate of 3.29 percent per annum. This may not be an indicator for quality of life, but it seems that the high rate of growth, along with the high life expectancy and the low infant mortality rate, attests to one thing: There is no hunger, no humanitarian crisis and tales of 1,001 nights from 1,001 human rights organizations.

Even by other indicators, such as personal computer use or Internet access, the situation in the Gaza Strip is much better than that of most of the world. To complete the picture, it should be noted that two years ago, a British politician claimed that life expectancy in Glasgow East was much lower than that in the Gaza Strip.

The claim caused an uproar. Britain’s Channel 4 carried out a scrupulous check and issued its “verdict”: Indeed, life expectancy in Glasgow is lower than that in the Gaza Strip.

Thus, it is a little strange that humanitarian aid comes from people whose situation is much worse. It could be that there is a need for additional ships. But the direction should be reversed. It is Turkey that needs the help."

[shira]

2. Leftists back chauvinism

A leftist protest was being held in Sheikh Jarrah, and as it turned out I was invited too. A friend of a friend even sent a Facebook invitation. Among the many exclamation marks, I couldn’t help but notice a very certain demand presented to participants – or more accurately, female participants: “When choosing your attire for the protest, please take cultural differences into account.” Amazing, isn’t it?

As one who spent most of his years among the religious sector, I’ve been equipped with top-notch detectors aimed at spotting authoritative chauvinism dressed up as “modesty.” These detectors are mostly focused on close attention to the term “cultural differences.”

I will translate this term to simple language for those who have trouble doing it themselves. Protest organizers asked female participants to cover themselves up, as is customary in chauvinistic societies. The society on whose behalf they fight oppresses women and is hierarchical and violent. It’s a society that views women as an object that belongs to men, and sees honor killings of women as a technological zenith.

As noted, since women are objects that belong to men, they are faced with constraints. The dress code is one of them, and it is being referred to as “cultural differences.”

Members of the liberal leftist camp do not even imagine that something is wrong here. They do not see the great dissonance between their desire to put their lives on the line to fight Jews from moving into Sheikh Jarrah, coupled with their silence in the face of the murder of women and persecution of homosexuals. The opposite is true – they happen to easily go with the flow in respect to the “modesty” rules and the oppression.

more...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3919757,00.html

[Jmaxfie1]

148. So much fail.

Those protesters would never except such treatment of women in their own country but allow it for women in other countries. This to me isn't just chauvinism it is out and out racism.

[shira]

150. First rule is to never harshly criticize nasty 3rd world behavior, for example, Lara Logan

Third world victimization trumps western feminism advocacy.

If what had happened to Lara Logan were to occur in a western nation, it would be a different story and we'd see wall to wall coverage of the perpetrators, criticism of the society and culture that breeds such hatred, etc.

It happened in Egypt, so it's a non-story. Her own network CBS took several days to report anything about it and when CBS finally did report it, they left out the fact that it was a 20-30 minute assault by 100-200 men shouting "Jew, Jew" (she's not jewish). Imagine if it had happened in Israel with angry mobs of men screaming "Arab, Arab".

Reverse racism.

[shira]

3. Arab World: An oppressed, forgotten minority

On March 21, 2010, the Syrian security forces opened fire with live ammunition on a crowd of 5,000 in the northern Syrian town of al-Raqqah. The crowd had gathered to celebrate the Kurdish festival of Nowruz. Three people, including a 15-year-old girl, were killed. Over 50 were injured. Dozens of injured civilians were held incommunicado by the authorities following the events. Some remain incarcerated. This incident was just one example of the repression taking place of the largest national minority in Syria – namely, the Syrian Kurdish population.

Kurds constitute 9 percent-10% of the population of Syria – that is, around 1.75 million in a total population of 22 million. Since the rise of militant Arab nationalism to power in Damascus, they have faced an ongoing campaign for their dissolution as a community.

All this is taking place far from the spotlight of world attention. The current US Administration pursues a general policy of considered silence on the issue of human rights in Middle East countries. The Syrian regime remains the elusive subject of energetic courting by the European Union and by Washington.

As a result, the Kurds of Syria are likely for the foreseeable future to remain the region's forgotten minority.

more...
http://www.jpost.com/Features/FrontLines/Article.aspx?id=180186

[shira]

6. Palestinians in the Arab World: Why the Silence?

When was the last time the United Nations Security Council met to condemn an Arab government for its mistreatment of Palestinians?

How come groups and individuals on university campuses in the US and Canada that call themselves "pro-Palestinian" remain silent when Jordan revokes the citizenship of thousands of Palestinians?

The plight of Palestinians living in Arab countries in general, and Lebanon in particular, is one that is often ignored by the mainstream media in West.

How come they turn a blind eye to the fact that Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and many more Arab countries continue to impose severe travel restrictions on Palestinians?

And where do these groups and individuals stand regarding the current debate in Lebanon about whether to grant Palestinians long-denied basic rights, including employment, social security and medical care?

Or have they not heard about this debate at all? Probably not, since the case has failed to draw the attention of most Middle East correspondents and commentators.

A news story on the Palestinians that does not include an anti-Israel angle rarely makes it to the front pages of Western newspapers.

The demolition of an Arab-owned illegal building in Jerusalem is, for most of these correspondents, much more important than the fact that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in Lebanon continue to suffer from a series of humiliating restrictions.

Not only are Palestinians living in Lebanon denied the right to own property, but they also do not qualify for health care, and are banned by law from working in a large number of jobs.

Can someone imagine what would be the reaction in the international community if Israel tomorrow passed a law that prohibits its Arab citizens from working as taxi drivers, journalists, physicians, cooks, waiters, engineers and lawyers? Or if the Israeli Ministry of Education issued a directive prohibiting Arab children from enrolling in universities and schools?

http://www.hudson-ny.org/1422/palestinians-in-arab-world

[shira]

7. UN not only ignores Arab discrimination against Palestinians, it promotes it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel,_Palestine,_and_the_United_Nations#Claims_that_the_UN_ignores_Arab_discrimination_against_Palestinians_and_inter-Palestinian_fighting

Claims that the UN ignores Arab discrimination against Palestinians and inter-Palestinian fighting

Main article: Palestinian refugee #Treatment in Arab countries

Half of the Palestinian refugees are located in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Basic human rights of these refugees are violated by these states, notably Lebanon which is accused of violating the right to health, education, work, ownership, travel and even the right to a name,<132>,<133>,<134>.<135><136>, <137>
A three month-long assault by the Lebanese army on the Nahr al-Bared in 2007 camp caused 498 deaths, the destruction of 85% of the infrastructures and 30,000 refugees. The UNRWA report contains no accusation.<138>

The violent takeover of Gaza by Hamas in 2007 has, so far, not been condemned at the UN. In November 2007, PA observer Riad Mansour sought to include a clause "expressing concern about the takeover by illegal militias of Palestinian Authority institutions in June 2007" and calling for the reversal of this situation (...) Reliable diplomatic sources said Mansour was subjected to a barrage of insults, led by the representatives of Egypt, Syria and Libya. The Arab delegates claimed Mansour's initiative would be interpreted as an official UN condemnation of Hamas, and would gain Israel international legitimacy for cutting electricity and fuel supplies to Gaza. Mansour agreed to softer language expressing "concern about an illegal takeover."<139>

Claims that the UN promotes Arab discrimination against Palestinians

Several observers accuse the UN of promoting this discrimination by creating a special status for Palestinian refugees. The IFHR study states:

Because the UNRWA's position consists of the prospect of a conflict resolution leading to the creation of an independent Palestinian State and to the return of the refugees on that territory, as a definitive solution, it tends to justify the Lebanese policies granting the Palestinian refugees only a minimal legal status. In other words, the Palestinian refugees' rights are limited to the right of residence as a condition of the application of UNRWA's humanitarian assistance.<134>

In an online article, the Coalition Against the Deportation of Palestinian Refugees states:

Palestinian Refugees are the only refugees in the world to exist solely under the mandate of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) and therefore outside the realm of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) in their host countries. The consequence of this fact is one many do not comprehend. The Palestinian Refugees become sidelined and marginalized, without hope for any form of protection. (...) Unlike other refugees, they are not protected by the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees or the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Both the 1951 Convention and the Statute of UNHCR exclude Palestinian refugees from international Protection.<140>

A 2007 article in the Washington Times states:

UNRWA serves as a crucial tool of legitimacy for the Palestinian refugee issue — as long as the office is active, how could anyone question the Palestinian refugee problem? Thus an oxymoronic situation: Despite the Israeli disengagement from Gaza in 2005 and the creation in 1993 of a Palestinian Authority with jurisdiction over the Palestinian refugee camps in Gaza/West Bank, UNRWA remains the key social, medical, educational and professional service provider for Palestinians living in "refugee" camps. This runs contrary to every principle of normal territorial integrity and autonomy.<141>

A similar argument was published in The Independent <142>

[shira]

4. (Video) Gaza Arabs didn't want food aid at all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3smJH8jb6M&feature=player_embedded

[shira]

5. Photo spread: New Gaza shopping mall, etc..

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001127.html

[Tripmann]

8. Lets hear from a compassionate jewish person on the matter...

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/jon-stewart-on-israeli-flotilla-raid-nobody-puts-bubby-in-a-corner-video-1.php

Jon Stewart gave some explanation last night for the recent Israeli commando raid of a flotilla in international waters. "Guess what?," he asked. "Nobody puts Bubby in a corner."

Stewart added that regardless of your perspective on the situation in the Middle East, Fox News contributor Charles Krauthammer's statement that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza "may be the stupidest f*cking thing anyone's ever said about the Middle East ever."

"You know, whatever you may think of the respective leaderships, the Israelis or Hamas, whatever Gods you pray to or whatever direction you may pray to them in, if you can't even look at Gaza, and agree that there is suffering there that needs to be alleviated, no matter who's to blame for it, then your heart is so dead, tourists flock there to float on their backs in it"

[shira]

9. Serious people don't quote comedians for support of their positions.

I agree with Jon Stewart there's suffering in Gaza that needs to be alleviated, but that's a far cry from parallels to the Warsaw ghetto.

Turns out Israel wasn't starving Palestinians in Gaza after all, right Ace?

What do you think of Nick Kristoff's 180 degree turnaround, in that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza?
http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/your-comments-on-my-gaza-column-2/

[Tripmann]

10. And serious liberals don't excuse crimes against humanity.

[Tripmann]

11. You can continue bumping your own filth thread ad-nauseum now.

[shira]

12. Serious liberals don't dismiss and ignore questions that expose the hate and hypocrisy of the AIB.

[Tripmann]

13. Back in your wendyhouse sweetheart. You can bump your own filth for the duration

Imagine having to keep kicking your own thread because nobody buys your shit. How embarrasing

[shira]

14. When you find dumbass anti-Israel talking points that attempt to address the above "filth"...

....propagated by the AIB, you be sure to let me know.

:)

[shira]

15. Pimping Gaza's poor

Almost every article about Gaza, particularly in the Guardian and on CiF, portrays all Gazans as victims of the Israeli blockade in spite of the thousands of tons of Israeli aid crossing into Gaza every week. The Guardian and other media do not distinguish between the residents of Gaza City and those stuck in the show case refugee camps who are paraded before foreign dignities as “proof” of Israeli “war crimes” during Cast Lead. Were I being kind, I could argue that the media perhaps is not aware of Gaza City luxury and the tunnel economy which makes it possible for Hamas leaders to wine and dine in comfort whilst their brethren are deliberately kept in squalor and used to manipulate the world’s heartstrings.

However, I don’t at all feel like being kind.


I have little doubt that those Gazans who are deliberately kept in poverty and squalor by Hamas are indeed victims. However, most developed countries have pockets of great poverty in the midst of conspicuous affluence. In those countries the problem is often one of distribution rather than of lack of supply in general. To what extent is this also true in Gaza?


For in Gaza City there is indeed conspicuous wealth. On July 17th this year, the “starving” and war-damaged Gazans were treated to the opening of a brand new shopping mall, courtesy, no doubt, of EU and other international donations. How is this possible? Who could afford to shop at such a mall if the population of Gaza were as poverty-stricken as we are led to believe? Other examples of material wealth and, often, excess – in a place we are told represents “the world’s largest open-air prison” – can be found here and here.


more...
http://cifwatch.com/2010/07/21/pimping-gazas-poor/

[shira]

16. Links reporting Hamas responsibility for Gazans lack of food and medical supplies

International Donations Not Always Welcome in Gaza
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,698766,00.html

Jordan says Hamas seizes aid covoy sent to Gaza
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL0983878

UN says Hamas seized food aid, blankets in Gaza
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/20090204/Gaza/?s_name=&no_ads=

UN says Hamas stole aid intended for Gazans
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/world/africa/04iht-mideast.4.19933553.html?_r=2

Hamas Stealing Food and Medicine Sent By International Donors
http://newsblaze.com/story/20090205084132zzzz.nb/topstory.html

[LTX]

17. None of this can be true:

Why, I've been reliably informed on this site that Israel is conducting a genocide in Gaza (perhaps the first in history to result in a horrifying 3.29% annual population growth and 73.68 year life expectancy); that Israel is "carpet bombing" Gaza (no kidding); that Gaza is the equivalent of the Warsaw Ghetto (which, of course, was well known for its outgoing rocket fire, its receipt of truckloads of aid from the Nazis and hundreds of millions of aid dollars from the rest of the world, and its kiosks, appliance stores, clubs, restaurants, shopping malls, luxury automobiles, and swimming pools); that Israel won't let soda, snack foods, and candies into Gaza (the very definition of humanitarian crisis in this day and age); and that Israel is systematically starving to death the entire population of Gaza (leading one to wonder where the photos of the malnourished are, since they would be so effective in making the point).

[shira]

18. Why care if it's true when Israel can take the blame for Hamas' deliberate attempts to make...

...Palestinians suffer?

The goal isn't really to help Palestinians by condemning or stopping Hamas, it's to defame/demonize Israelis.

[polly7]

19. It must be your goal. I don't remember seeing it expressed by

anyone else. People seem to want to place the blame for Palestinian suffering squarely where it belongs, on the decades of Israeli gov't actions that have caused it. HAMAS was supported by Israel as a tool to undermine the nationalistic movement by the PLO, so really ........ you are in fact yourself condemning the actions of that gov't. Ordinary Palestinians suffer all around, yes, the 'goal' is to help the Palestinians in any way, no one hates Israel, they hate the actions that have caused this suffering for decades. Land theft, massacres, blockades, imprisonment, denial of basic human needs, a gov't whose goal for years has been to expel Palestinians, is what most people defame / demonize, not ordinary Israelis. Again, it must be you projecting.

[shira]

20. How can you claim to care for Palestinian suffering but remain indifferent WRT Hamas' role...

....in that suffering?

Don't you realize no matter what Israel does, if Hamas doesn't stop withholding aid from Gazans they will continue to suffer?

Do you care?

[polly7]

21. Yes, I care very much.

And, you have no idea what I'm indifferent to. Pathetic. Your personal crap gets in the way of any intelligent discussion here. Anyone who 'cares' would admit to what decades of purposeful cruelty has done to these people.

[shira]

22. So since you care, it must upset you terribly that those who condemn Israel the most...

....are the same ones letting Hamas off the hook.

Right?

How can Palestinian suffering stop if Hamas is allowed to keep denying them aid?

======

Also, what are your thoughts on #6 above?

Does that bother you? :shrug:

[Jmaxfie1]

149. LMAO, Great Post

LMAO, Great Post

[whosinpower]

23. Condemning the humanitarian aid that goes to Gaza

Maybe your right Shira. We should just stop. Let's think this through. All the NGO's who help the people of Gaza need to stop - because there is no crisis there. That is the basic arguement.

1.2 million people in a tiny strip of land that is effectively cut off except for the good graces of Israel allowing aid from foreign agencies to come through. 70 percent unemployment. No exports allowed. With these sorts of economic conditions, it occurs to me that things such as food and fuel are purchased by a third party and donated to the region. We should stop that mamby pamby humanitarian stuff - ALL OF IT.

What do you think would occur if all those foreign aid agencies just quit? All of them. Do you think Gaza would be better off because clearly - they don't need it.

It occurs to me, that in some sense, all those NGO's supporting and supplying aid to the people of Gaza while it is under blockade are enabling Israel to disregard its responsibility to those people.
OH - I know what you are thinking - why should Israel be responsible to those people - we are not occupying that land....but you are responsible for what comes and what goes....and if no one offered any aid, help or assistance of any kind to them, then it falls to Israel by default.

Because the UN is useless and clearly biased against Israel - and clearly there are more pressing issues in Darfour - so all that aid money, and all that food, and all those personnel, and all that training - it should go to Darfour instead.

Well - Hamas would no longer be able to steal aid because there would be none there. So - there is that....and the world would save a ton of money....gazans don't need it anyways. Right? They even have their own mall. One has to wonder how Hamas would evolve without all that aid flowing in and enabling them to disregard their elected responsibilities towards their own people.

You think this though carefully.....because without all that aid coming in from foreign parties....then it is left to Israel - the ones who stand guard at the sea, in the air and on the border, the ones who displaced these people in the first place - to step up and be responsible towards them.

Your right - we have coddled, waited, supported, helped and tried to make it too easy for the Gazans/palistinians. And in doing so, Israel gets away without having to pay for the disproportinate destruction it wrought. See what that does to the Israeli mentality....and the zionist dream.

Careful what you wish for Shira.

[shira]

24. I've never called to stop aid to Gaza.

The fact is that as bad as things are in Gaza, it's not a humanitarian crisis. So says Gershon Baskin, Nicholas Kristof, and Robert Serry - who all agree with Israeli officials.

In addition, another reason it's called a 'humanitarian show' is because nearly all organizations and individuals most critical of Israel - who repeat the false claim of a humanitarian crisis there - prove themselves to be phonies by the way in which they won't or can't criticize Hamas for their role in making Palestinians suffer in Gaza (by withholding and stealing aid, bombing the crossings, not allowing Gazans into Israel for medical treatment, using Palestinians as human shields, denying Gazans basic human rights, etc..). They never criticize Jordan, Lebanon, or others for Palestinian suffering either.

Personally, I don't see how it's possible for any real supporter of Palestinians to not be disgusted by phony humanitarians (including the warmongers who were on the flotilla). And let's face it, it's quite easy to tell the difference between a genuine humanitarian or peace activist from a phony one.

Here's a great article (from above) that demonstrates how phony many so-called peace activists and humanitarians are...

Palestinians in the Arab World: Why the Silence?
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1422/palestinians-in-arab-world

If you have answers, I'd love to hear them.

[whosinpower]

26. Withdraw it all

I suspect, and am just theorizing now, but I suspect Lebanon's policy towards the palistinians is to deter them from settling permanently in Lebanon - so they will move back to Palistine if and when the state is created, as promised.

The cold hard fact is that Israel could not come into being as a demographically jewish majority unless a great number of Arabs/palistinians left. Whether or not it was Arab armies that got them to go, or IDF forces is a moot point. They left and are not allowed back. They are not allowed back precisely for the reason of demography.

The UN, UNWRA and all these foreign NGO's, humanitarian agencies have stepped up and provided aid as a bridge to provide food, medicine, education, fuel until the point where they can take care of themselves and provide for their own, in their own state. In doing so, as an unintended consequence, Israel is allowed to not take responsibility for those people. In doing so, also, all that aid has acted as a dampener to force BOTH parties to make hard choices and come up with a settlement.

Hamas sends thousands of rockets into Israel and abducts two soldiers. Israel retaliates with operation Cast lead and destroys an estimated 4.5 BILLION in infrastructure. The world, in horror, and sympathy to the conflict, steps up with billions is aid to pay for what Israel destroyed. There is a pottery barn rule - when you break it- you bought it. Why should the world keep helping Hamas by not forcing them to address the reality of needing to provide a safe secure stable economy? Why should the world keep paying in very real terms, keep paying for what Israel destroys?

All the aid needs to stop. The military aid to Israel needs to stop. The aid to Egypt needs to stop. The aid to Gaza needs to stop. The aid coming from Iran needs to stop. The aid from America needs to stop. 60 years of fighting, whining, complaining, suffering......that aid has only lenghtened what should of been dealt with in 1949. The US should give that 2.775 billion to Bangladesh, and the UN/UNWRA should go to India instead. Unifil should leave and disband. Maybe it would work there. It certainly has not worked in the middle east. You said yourself - countless times what about ________? Why the silence? OK then. Withdraw everything - EVERYTHING and give you the silence you so desire.

No more flotillas - that should make Israel happy. No more truckloads of aid to check and inspect....that will save money too. Maybe then....Hamas will realize their hardline actions have consequences. Maybe then....Israel will finally learn to live with its neighbors....without the West holding its hand and claiming incessantly that it loves them.

Your right - when humanitarian aid becomes corrupted into a weapon, it is no longer humanitarian. Withdraw it all....all of it. Is that disproportionate? Too bad.

If there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, with 70(?) percent unemployment, no exports of any kind, a decimated economy....the only way these people survive is on the good graces of other people. Withdraw it all and see what happens.....

[shira]

27. Good luck withdrawing it all - and to what end? You want to take responsiblity for that?

No way Western powers withdraw all aid. Think OIL and regional stability.

[whosinpower]

29. To what end?

It is the end. Iran plays games to give the west(USA) a black eye...via Hamas. But the truth, is behind all this....is blowback from Operation Ajax. And this dear Shira....is all because of OIL. Because the iranians wanted to nationalize their oil...and the brit's, and the americans did not want this to occur. The only reason there is INSTABILITY IN THE MIDDLE EAST is because of oil.

In your wildest dreams, why and how could you ever think that the state of Israel contributes to regional stability? Israel is a mere pawn - just as Hamas is.

When the US makes "nice" with Iran and takes responsibility for installing the Shah, then everything is on the table....Iran withdraws support of Hamas. You lose a bitter enemy...two enemies actually. The US withdraws support of Israel. The UN leaves the refugees. The NGO's go home. The US and the world actually...saves BILLIONS in aid dollars, not only to Israel, but to Egypt and thousands of hours of manpower...and Israel is left to the silence it so wants. And finally...there is stability....hmmmm....even peace.

And about that oil....it keeps flowing as it always has...and paid to the highest bidder. Trust me when I say that OPEC and the entire region would be very happy that the west withdrew....happy enough to negotiate a very good contract where that oil goes to and that it keeps flowing.

So you see, dear Shira... perpetual war is critical to Isreal's denial of taking responsibility to the people it displaced, and of course critical to keep receiving all that aid money, all that military equipment. So, when Barack Obama went to Cairo and gave a speech acknowledging, for the first time, the US role in Iranian affairs via Operation Ajax...Israel critisized him...even though Israel was not mentioned in the speech, they considered this a betrayal. You would think that normalizing relations between the two nations would be a good thing - but Israel does not see it this way.

Take away ALL the aid money from all sides.....withdraw all support on all sides....and let the chips fall where they may. If the palistinian dream of its own state is true, and good and just, it must be sustainable on its own without aid. If the zionist dream of its own state is true and good and just, it too, must be able to sustain itself without aid coming in constantly.

[shira]

30. It's so simple, isn't it?

You wrote:

"When the US makes "nice" with Iran and takes responsibility for installing the Shah, then everything is on the table....Iran withdraws support of Hamas."

How will this happen? And why would Iran want to withdraw support from Hamas and Hezbollah after the USA makes nice?

In case you haven't been paying attention, Iran's theocrats, Al-Qaeda, etc., aren't too interested in making nice with the West. The West is a threat to their power. A liberated, prosperous, educated, and free Iran, Afghanistan, Gaza, etc.. is a threat to the elites in charge. They don't have real elections where they transfer power peacefully.

Who else will they use as a distraction from their brutality and corruption if they 'make nice' with the West? They can't even make nice with moderate secular Muslims, not to mention non-Muslims (whether Arab or not). In fact, the secular, more moderate people of that region are scared to death of Iran, Al-Qaeda, etc.

[whosinpower]

31. Obama already initiated it

and the moment he did, Israel declared Obama's foreign policy a disaster.

Obama is pragmatic. What does Iran want? What do most of the Arab states want? They want to be left alone. Saudi Arabia is left alone - why? Saudi Arabia is all the things Iran is - and more. But the US and Saudi Arabia have a special deal....leave us alone, and we send you all the oil you need. The critical issue with regards to Iran and the US - is that the US interfered with Iran's desire to nationalize its oil. The elites that they installed were brutal, repressive and corrupt. The US could care less...as long as the oil flowed from American and british companies, and to American and british bank accounts.

Saddam Hussein was just as brutal, just as repressive...and he was useful, very useful as long as the oil was flowing and paid for in US greenbacks. The moment Hussein proposed an Oil Bourse, he became a mortal threat....and WMD were used as a sales campaign to sell the threat.

A possible deal between the two might include:
Iran leaves Israel alone and will not attack and will not support terrorist organizations.
The US leaves Israel alone and will not provide any more military aid.
Iran agrees to stop its nuclear enrichment in favour of Israel allowing inspections of its facilities and signing the non-proliferation treaty. Once Israel has done so, Iran dismantles its program.
Iran agrees not to interfere on behalf of the palistinians and withholds all aid, all donations coming from muslim organizations abroad.
The US agrees not to interfere on behalf of Israel and withholds all aid, all donations coming from jewish organizations abroad.
The UN, NGO's, humanitarian missions withdraw until a final settlement is made between Israel and the PA.
The US, Iran,and all the Arab middle eastern states, and the UN all set up a future fund of aid to be distributed to Israel/Palistine and hold all those funds until a settlement is made. Three appointed Israeli's and three appointed palistinians hold the keys to the vault.
Israel and the PA negotiate - without ANY foreign interference - and not one dime goes to the region until both parties sign on the dotted line.

Any future aid will be contingent on how both parties treated the other in the final deal. Israel is in a far stronger position militarily, but Hamas has its own fair share of weapons. For every palistinian life lost, regardless of WHO it is, it will cost Israel 1 billion dollars in future aid. For every Israeli life lost, regardless WHO it is, it will cost the PA 1 billion dollars in future aid.

Iran gets what it wants....the west leaves. Israel gets what it wants - its neighbors to recognize it and not attack it. Palistine becomes a real state. The refugees are dealt with finally. The US gets what it wants - a middle east settlement and real stability.

[shira]

32. That would be nice if it had a chance of working.

One reason the West is involved is to keep the influence of Iran, Al-Qaeda, and the theocrats in check. They do this by empowering or defending the more moderate, secular regimes. If the USA drops the ball then Iran, Al-Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah will fight the secular states of the region. That's not in the West's best interests. Allowing those who threaten Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc... to control the oil in that region (and minimize all western influence) is bad news for the West's economic prospects.

You're assuming Iran, Al Qaeda, etc.. are rational and pragmatic actors. They're not. The West has no chance of working out a deal with the extreme religious theocrats of that region. For that matter, neither does Israel. Israel has a better chance of working out a deal with the more secular governments of that region, like maybe 1 in a million odds. But with Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Al Qaeda? It's down to 0%, no chance.

All the nations surrounding Israel see the West "making nice" as a sign of weakness in their zero-sum game (both the theocratic as well as more secular nations). The USA making nice is a sign of weakness. Israel too, making nice, is a sign of weakness and if you understand that violence erupted due to Israeli concessions since Oslo began (because Israel's neighbors saw that as Israeli weakness) then you'll come to understand a little better the power politics of that region.

Making nice unfortunately doesn't work.

Too much testosterone there.

[whosinpower]

35. Iran already offered pretty much what I suggested

Would that indicate a "sign of weakness"?
Funny that they would do this.......dissappointing that Bush ignored their offer.

The violence that erupted after Oslo was not because Israel was seen as weak. The violence that erupted was to derail the peace process altogether - and I will remind you that there are elements on both sides who did not like Oslo. Who was it that shot Rabin again? Oh yeah......a settler.
Who was it that was BRAGGING that they destroyed the Oslo process? Here is a hint for you....it wasn't terrorists.....it was Netanyahu himself - so proud of stalling the peace process, and a two state solution.

But this is derailing the original post.

The budget for UNRWA for 2009 was over 500 million dollars. That is just one agency - although it is dedicated specifically to the refugee/displaced palistinians. The US gives Israel millions in military aid and has recently announced 2.75 BILLION in new military aid. Unifil's budget for 2010 is 636 million. Have you ever really thought about just how much funding goes to Israel, Gaza and the West Bank? In its entirety - it is a huge amount - and multiply that by....oh 50 years....

After 50 years, it is no wonder the world grows impatient. Your absolutely right Shira.....the humanitarian game should end. All of it - until BOTH parties find a final aboslute settlement, regarding ALL issues.

[shira]

36. What did Iran offer and when? n/t

[whosinpower]

37. Throws your whole theory out the window - doesn't it

I'm not going to do your research for you. Google US-Iran relations. Read up on Operation Ajax.
Do you own digging around in historical archives.

[shira]

38. Not at all. I really don't think you have any idea how impossible it would be....

...for Iran, Al-Qaeda, or anyone like them to ever negotiate honorably, make reasonable offers, or stick to them.

I'll wait for your answer.

[whosinpower]

39. Ah yes - let's cling to the bogeyman complex

Because the status quo - Iran funding Hamas and terrorist organizations that harrass Israel, condemn the palistinian people to poverty through Hamas, building a nuclear facility that might make Iran nuclear weapon capable - all that is actually preferable to....

Having Hamas lose its patron, losing an Islamic state that was nuclear capable, gaining an Arab state that made peace with Israel....giving the moderate palistinians a chance to find their voice....

Of course I see why you would not trust them...what is to trust? Then again.....there is no reason to trust Netanyahu either. He has proven.....unfaithful.

[shira]

40. The best that can be hoped for is to support the more moderate, secular regimes...

...and democracies in order to keep the extreme, theocratic nutters, and the banana republic religious idiots in charge, in check.

Choices are between shitty and shittier.

Your solution just tosses red meat to Iran, Al-Qaeda, etc., and scares the shit out of moderates, seculars, women, etc.. in that region.

=======

There's simply no way the West will allow oil reserves in that region to be threatened by Iran and their cohorts.

[whosinpower]

41. No

Mossadegh was ELECTED in a democratic Iranian election with a mandate to nationalize Iran's oil. Democracies are only good when they are useful to the powerplayers...however....dictators are easier. Mossadegh was overthrown in a CIA/british coup. Before this, Iran/US relations were very positive. Iran became more radicalized after that.

I find it quite amusing that Iran offering to give up supporting Hamas, giving up its nuclear ambitions, and making peace with Israel.....is red meat to Iran! hahahaha I thought you said offering anything was a sign of weakness.....aka - if Israel offers anything, its enemies see it as a sign of weakness and attack......but if Iran offers anything....it is red meat to Iran!

Think for a moment....with palistinian industriousness, Israel's technology and the Arab states oil.....how this could transform the middle east. And then wonder why....why in 1953, did Britain enforce harsh sanctions on Iran....because the oil royalties were set up to be 85% going to Britain and 15 % going to Iran....Mossadegh wanted to change all that....he was elected democratically to do just that and what happened to him.

Why does the harshest, most repressive autocratic regime of all - Saudi Arabia get a pass? How come they are not painted to be a villain -even though Al Qaeda wants to export the same Sharia law that is practiced in Saudi Arabia - even though Saudi royals were supporting Al qaeda and other extremist groups.

When I mentioned taking away ALL aid, of ALL kinds to both palistinians and Israeli's - you said.....It will never happen....think middle eastern stability....think OIL. There is more aid going to the state of Israel, and the palistinians now than ever before....and by all accounts, the middle east is less stable, more anti-american than ever. Iraq, Afghanistan, Al qaeda, 911, terrorism. If aid has nothing to do with those things - there is no reason to not cut it off...except Israel cannot survive in its current form, without it.

Netanyahu knows this.....it is why the escalation of Iran being totally evil is necessary. He uses this enemy to guarentee the billions will continue to flow and they do....but stability is never reached, peace is always out of the question, the displaced palistinians continue to be pawns of poverty used and abused by both sides..and those radical regimes fall further and further adrift.

And when the evil Iran offers the golden egg of everything in exchange for normalizing relations with the US...you suggest the US can only support secular, democratic regimes....all the while ignoring that these things are harder and harder to find in an increasingly radicalized region, and still ignoring Saudi Arabia.

My solution does not offer "red meat" to Iran. The day it becomes more "profitable" for the US to make peace with Iran and normalize relations, is the day that Hamas loses its prime patron, is the day Israel loses a lovely enemy from attrition. That is a day I wish for. You should too.

[shira]

42. Why do you believe Iran wants better relations with the West...

....and that they'll gladly drop Hamas, Hezbollah, and their nuclear program?

I agree that if Israel, the oil countries, Iran, and the Palestinians joined forces, that would be fantastic! But what makes you think the radical nutters in charge of Iran, etc.. actually want that?

[Boojatta]

60. "the ones who displaced these people in the first place"

I would benefit from a history lesson. Was Gaza a land without a people until recent history?

[shira]

25. Ever heard of the Indo-Bangladeshi 4000 km barrier? Why not? Why the silence?

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/1575409

The Indo-Bangladeshi barrier is a 4,000-kilometer fence that India is presently constructing to seal off the Indian-Bangladeshi international border from what was formerly East Bengal. East Bengal was a partitioned region of Bengal, belonging to East Pakistan from 1947 to 1971. This obstruction will virtually isolate Bangladesh from the rest of India. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article589627.ece[br />title=India fences off Bangladesh to keep out Muslim terror |publisher=Times online |accessdate=2007-07-18]

The barrier's plan is based on the designs of the Israeli West Bank barrier and will be just under three meters high. The stated aim of the fence is to stop infiltration of terrorists, prevent smuggling, and to bring a close to the illegal immigration from Bangladesh into neighbouring states. Clashes have occurred with Bangladeshi Border Patrols as Bangladesh claims that the fence runs within 150 meters of the demarcated border. According to a 1974 peace treaty between India and Bangladesh, neither side is allowed to build defensive works within 150 meters of the frontier. Due to the fact that the fence stands so far back from the border, it has cut off thousands of Bengali Indians from the rest of Mainland India. Indigenous Assamese also fear that they, as a people, will be reduced to a minority if unabated infiltration continues. http://indiamonitor.com/news/readCatFullNews.jsp?ni=232&ct=India-Bangladesh |title=India-Bangladesh News from India |publisher=India Monitor |accessdate=2007-07-11> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4622317.stm |title=Livelihoods on line at Indian border |publisher=BBC News |accessdate=2007-07-11>

Construction

In a construction project that will eventually reach across 2,500 miles, hundreds of rivers and long stretches of forests and fields, India has been quietly sealing itself off from Bangladesh, its smaller neighbour. The barrier itself will be a barbed wire, concrete fence being constructed by India around Bangladesh. Sections of the barrier totaling about 1,550 miles have been built over the past seven years. There is no clear completion date for the US $1.2 billion project yet. The barrier when complete will be patrolled by the Border Security Force. The fence will also be electrified at some stretches. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4653810.stm |title=Villagers left in limbo by border fence |publisher=BBC News |accessdate=2007-07-18>

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polly7]

33. Pitiful.

Excuse me, while I try to squeeze out a little tear ......

:cry:

[shira]

34. Explain? n/t

[shira]

43. Arabs and Muslims Run to Israel

Arabs and Muslims Run to Israel
by Khaled Abu Toameh
July 27, 2010 at 5:00 am

Many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have a dream: to work or live in Israel. Some even say they are prepared to pay large sums of money to obtain Israeli citizenship.

Others pay a lot of money to Palestinian and Jewish traffickers who help them bypass checkpoints to enter Israel in search of work and good life.

These are not self-hating Palestinians. Nor are they "pro-Israel traitors" who support the Zionist movement.

Many Palestinians feel that neither Fatah nor Hamas has done enough to alleviate their suffering. Many Fatah leaders who stole billions of dollars of international donations earmarked for the Palestinians have invested their fortunes in hotels, tourist resorts and real estate firms in the West. Hamas, on the other hand, prefers to spend millions of dollars on purchasing large amounts of weapons, including rockets and ammunition.

It is a disgrace for Arab and Muslim dictators, particularly those who make billions of dollars from selling oil, that their constituents have to seek work and refuge in Israel and the West. It is also a disgrace for Fatah and Hamas that thousands of Palestinians cannot find jobs or a good life in the two Palestinian states in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Arab and Islamic regimes are spending billions of dollars on building new mosques and madrasas while nearly half of their people are illiterate and live under the poverty line. University graduates in these countries are forced to search for work in the West because of poor working conditions and lack of opportunities.

The absence of good government, transparency, accountability and democracy in these countries is driving Arabs and Muslims to seek work and a better life not only in North America and Europe, but even in places like Israel.

more...
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1433/arabs-and-muslims-run-to-israel

[shira]

44. Egyptian Journalist: In Actual Terms, Gaza Is Not Under Siege

In an article in the Egyptian daily Al-Ahram on the economic situation in the Gaza Strip, journalist Ashraf Abu Al-Houl wrote about the burgeoning recreation industry and of the low merchandise prices.

Also as part of the interest in the economic situation in Gaza, the PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida published articles describing the expensive resorts that have been established for Gaza's newly rich, and a Palestinian website reported on the new mall recently opened in the city.

The following are excerpts from the articles:

Stores Overflow with Goods

Journalist Ashraf Abu Al-Houl wrote in Al-Ahram: "I was last in Gaza in mid-February. Returning three weeks ago, I found it almost unrecognizable... and the greatest surprise was the nature of that change. I would have expected a change for the worse, considering the blockade – but the opposite was the case; it seemed as if it had emerged from the blockade.

"A sense of absolute prosperity prevails, as manifested by the grand resorts along and near Gaza's coast. Further, the sight of the merchandise and luxuries filling the Gaza shops amazed me. Merchandise is sold more cheaply than in Egypt, although most of it is from the Egyptian market, and there are added shipping costs and costs for smuggling it via the tunnels – so that it could be expected to be more expensive.

"Before I judge by appearances, which can be misleading... I toured the new resorts, most of which are quite grand, as well as the commercial markets, to verify my hypothesis. The resorts and markets have come to symbolize prosperity, and prove that the siege is formal or political, not economic. The reality proves that the siege was broken even before Israel's crime against the ships of the Freedom Flotilla in late May; everything already was coming into the Gaza Strip from Egypt. If this weren't the case, businessmen would not have been able to build so many resorts in under four months."

more...
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4482.htm

[shira]

45. HRW representative visits Gaza to assure Hamas HRW will treat them fairly

Sarah Whinston pointed out that the reason behind coming to Gaza despite the difficulties they faced is to listen to all parties directly so she will prepare more objective and impartial reports.

“Impartiality, objectivity and non alignment to any party of conflict parties are the basis of our job so this makes us deserved the respect of every person” Sarah Leah said

Sarah Leah thanked Alghoul for his clarifications and emphasized that she will take these clarifications seriously and their next report will be about the Israeli violations as the Israeli illegal settlement which is against the international law.

http://www.tawtheeq.ps/en/home.php?page=viewThread&id=131

[shira]

46. Excellent Video on the true face of the BDS movement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnpilMYsR0I&feature=player_embedded

[shira]

47. Recent Israel channel 10 video coverage on Gaza water park and museum/restaurant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU5NmRkaIt4&feature=player_embedded

[shira]

48. Group: PA rejecting Gaza passport applications

GAZA (Ma'an) -- The Palestinian Authority is depriving citizens in Gaza from obtaining passports, a rights group said Thursday.

The Al-Mezan Center for Human Rights wrote to Ramallah-based Prime Minister Salam Fayyad in June urging him to comply with Palestinian Basic Law and issue passports to all citizens without discrimination.

Since June, the center has issued further complaints on behalf of citizens denied passports, none of which have received responses from the PA, a statement said.

The complainants included cancer patient Ahmed Abu Fou'ad, Mohammed Subeh who needs an eye-transplant, and paramedic, Alaa' Sarhan, who needs surgery to remove shrapnel from his body as well as urinary surgery, Al Mezan said.

The Palestinian Human Rights NGOs Council has also written to Fayyad requesting he address these cases, but has not received any response, the report added.

Al Mezan called on the PA, and particularly the Interior Ministry, to respect citizens’ rights, noting that discriminating between citizens on the basis of their political affiliation or opinion constituted “flagrant violations to human rights and to the principle of the rule of law.”

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=307629

Egypt opened Rafah 2 months ago but Palestinian Leadership prefers keeping its citizens locked up in their open air prison.

:eyes:

[shira]

49. 'Turkey used chemical weapons against PKK'

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3935422,00.html

And of course, the Human Rights community - and especially the UN - is silent because Israel has nothing to do with it.

Nothing to see here. Better to "look over there" to Israel.

:eyes:

[azurnoir]

50. why did you not post any of the article?could it be because of the speculative nature

of the accusations? I am not saying that it is not true however the article was released today, you seem to be in a hurry to point an accusing finger, if these same accusation were made against Israel you would and have denied them even with statements from MDs that treated the victims

an actual snip from the YNet article

Is Turkey using chemical weapons against Kurdish rebels? German weekly Der Spiegel reported on its website Thursday that it had obtained photographs showing the bodies of fighters from the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) that had been killed by chemical weapons. The report, which is based on a report published over the weekend, claims German experts have examined and confirmed the photographs' authenticity.


According to the report, the horrifying images show burned, maimed and scorched body parts. Kurdish human rights activists believe the people in the photos are eight members of the PKK underground, who were killed in clashes with the Turkish military in September 2009.


The photographs were transferred to a human rights delegation including German activists, journalists, and far-Left Turkish politicians.


The report said the photographs were transferred to a forensics lab and were examined by experts from Hamburg University Hospital. Expert Hans Baumann confirmed the initial suspicion that it is highly probable the eight Kurds died "due to the use of chemical substances."


This is not the first time Turkey is suspected of using chemical weapons, in violation of the international treaty to which it is a signatory. Such suspicions have led German politicians to call for an independent international probe into the matter.



Gisela Penteker, a Turkey expert with the international medical organization International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War, noted that Turkey has been suspected of using chemical weapons for years. "Local people have said that again and again," she explained. Finding proof is difficult, however, she said, because bodies were often released so late that it was hardly possible to carry out a thorough autopsy.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3935422,00.html

[shira]

51. If these charges were speculative vs. Israel, this would be frontpage & headlined internationally.

Right or wrong?

As to being speculative, German experts have confirmed authenticity of the photos.

[proteus_lives]

52. Excellent thread.

:thumbsup:

[shira]

53. Lebanon debates giving Palestinians rights

EIN EL-HILWEH REFUGEE CAMP, Lebanon -- Mohammed al-Amin spends his days doing little more than playing billiards and smoking cigarettes in this sprawling Palestinian refugee camp, where gunmen roam narrow alleyways dotted with tin-roofed, cement-block homes.

The 25-year-old studied dental lab technology but works at a small, grubby coffee shop in the camp, making $100 a month. He dreams of working with a respected doctor in Lebanese society and being welcomed like any other foreigner, without being looked down on.

"Sometimes I feel like a pressurized bottle that's about to explode," said al-Amin, who was born in Ein el-Hilweh years after his family fled what is now Israel. "Why should three quarters of the Palestinian people here be selling coffee on the street?"

The approximately 400,000 Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, many of them born here, are barred by law from any but the most menial professions and are denied many basic rights.

Now parliament is debating a new law that would allow Palestinians to work in any profession and own property, as well as give them social security benefits. The bill, due for a vote on Aug. 17, is the most serious effort yet by Lebanon to transform its policies toward the refugees.

more...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/12/AR2010081200453.html

[shira]

54. Middle East's Western Media - Hypocrisy, Double Standards Out of Control

Western correspondents and newspapers continue to apply double standards when it comes to covering the Israeli-Arab conflict.

It is much easier for a Western journalist to sit in Israel and write about Israel without having to worry about his or her safety. Why bother travel to an Arab country and risk being arrested or deported for writing a story that reflects negatively on the dictatorship there?

Besides, who said it's that easy to enter an Arab or Islamic country? The foreign reporters need an entry visa to most of these countries - a process that could last for weeks, months and years.

And when the foreign reporters arrives in an Arab capital, he or she are often escorted by "minders" of the Ministry of Information of that country. Then there are the mukhabarat agents who start following the reporters from the minute they arrive and until they leave.

Those who are found "guilty" of writing a story that angers the Arab dictator or any of his confidants should forget about applying for another visa.

Otherwise, how does one explain the fact that the mainstream media in the US, Canada and Europe are turning a blind eye to recent developments in Jordan, where the government has introduced a law that restricts media freedom?

more...
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1481/middle-east-western-media

[shira]

55. Why are military ops in Gaza, Kosovo judged by wildly disparate criteria?

Proportionality and hypocrisy

Why are military ops in Gaza, Kosovo judged by wildly disparate criteria?

Martin Sherman
Published: 01.14.09, 23:46 / Israel Opinion


"There is always a cost to defeat an evil. It never comes free, unfortunately. But the cost of failure to defeat a great evil is far higher."
Jamie Shea, NATO spokesman, BBC News, May 31, 1999

It was in these words that the official NATO representative chose to respond to criticism regarding the numerous civilian casualties incurred by the alliance's frequent air attacks during the war in Kosovo between March and June of 1999. He insisted NATO planes bombed only "legitimate designated military targets" and if civilians had died it was because NATO had been forced into military action. Adamant that "we try to do our utmost to ensure that if there are civilians around we do not attack," Shea emphasized that "NATO does not target civilians...let's be perfectly clear about that."

However, hundreds of civilians were killed by a NATO air campaign, code named "Operation Allied Force" - which hit residential neighborhoods, old-aged sanatoriums, hospitals, open markets, columns of fleeing refugees, civilian buses and trains on bridges, and even a foreign embassy.

Exact figures are difficult to come by, but the undisputed minimum is almost 500 civilians deaths (with some estimates putting the toll as high as 1500) - including women, children and the elderly, killed about in 90 documented attacks by an alliance that included the air forces of Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Holland, Italy, Turkey, Spain, the UK, and the US. Up to 150 civilians deaths were reportedly caused by the use of cluster-bombs dropped on, or adjacent to, known civilian areas.

By contrast, the military losses inflicted by NATO on the Serbian forces during almost 80 days of aerial bombardment, unchallenged by any opposing air power, were remarkably low - with most estimates putting the figure at less than 170 killed.

Meanwhile, NATO forces suffered… no combat fatalities! This was mainly due to the decision to conduct high altitude aerial attacks which greatly reduced the danger to NATO military personnel in the air, but dramatically increased it for the Serbian (and Kosovar) civilians on the ground. Moreover, the civilian populations of the countries participating on Operation Allied Force were never attacked or - even threatened - in any way by Serbian forces.

cont'd...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3656420,00.html

[shira]

56. Germany drops probe into Afghan air raid

BERLIN, Aug. 20 (UPI) -- The German military has dropped its case against a colonel who ordered an airstrike that killed dozens of civilians in Afghanistan last year.

The air raid happened almost one year ago, but it's still fresh in the minds of many Germans, as it was the deadliest German-ordered bombing since the end of World War II.


cont'd...
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2010/08/20/Germany-drops-probe-into-Afghan-air-raid/UPI-94981282322935/

[shira]

57. Welcome to Gaza, part 1 of 2 (VIDEO)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYKKxL1gDEg

[shira]

58. Amnesty Intnt'l urges authorities to flog crime suspect instead of imposing spinal cord punishment

You know a country's human rights situation is bad when even Amnesty International is urging that a guy be methodically whipped or caned on his back as a compromise to avoid an even harsher sentence....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/08/saudi-arabia-amnesty-international-urges-authorities-to-flog-suspect-instead-of-imposing-harsher-punishment-spinal-cord-mutil.html

[shira]

59. US Doctors Endorse FGM!!!

I was shocked to read that the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) are actually now supporting female genital mutilation! No, this is NOT a sick, belated April Fool’s Day Joke!

According to their “Policy Statement - Ritual Genital Cutting of Female Minors”, they call for a change of US laws against fgm to enable pediatricians “to reach out to families by offering a ritual nick” such as “pricking or incising the clitoral skin to satisfy cultural requirements.”

I cannot begin to express how shocked I am about this!!!

Many people are overwhelmed by all the pain and suffering women endure in the world as a result of female genital mutilation. I am constantly approached by people who feel that they are helpless and who don’t know where to begin to start creating a change.

more...
http://www.lindamaykallestein.com/Linda_May_Kallestein/Blog/Entries/2010/5/2_US_Doctors_Endorse_FGM!!!.html

[shira]

61. Carter: Gaza residents 'starving to death' (April 2008)

Speaking at the American University in Cairo after talks with Hamas leaders, Carter said Palestinians in Gaza were being "starved to death" and received fewer calories a day than people in the poorest parts of Africa....
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3533297,00.html


Carter, from June 2009
"To me, the most grievous circumstance is the maltreatment of the people in Gaza, who are literally starving and have no hope at this time."
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/carter-netanyahu-faces-clash-with-obama-over-peace-process-1.277891

[shira]

62. Time Magazine 2008 claims of starvation....plus NYT, Haaretz, Red Cross

"As you sit down to a Thanksgiving feast, please spare a thought for the starving Palestinians of Gaza. "
http://mideast.blogs.time.com/2008/11/26/on-thanksgiving-not-much-to-give-thanks-for-in-gaza/#ixzz0xRMLabzQ

===========

From 2009...

NYT:
"Now stop starving the Gazans"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/opinion/15iht-edalpher.1.19391487.html

Haaretz:
"Red Cross: Israel breaking int'l law, letting children starve in Gaza"
http://www.haaretz.com/news/red-cross-israel-breaking-int-l-law-letting-children-starve-in-gaza-1.267712

[shira]

63. My letter to a Palestinian human rights activist

What is it about the Palestinians that get you going over all other humanitarian tragedies? Could it be that you cannot incriminate Israel in human rights crimes perpetrated in Iran, Lebanon, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Burma, Russia, China, Pakistan, China, Turkey and Cuba so these abusive regimes do not get you emotionally involved?

<snip>

It is here that I will prove to you that I care more for the Palestinians than you do.

You are completely silent on the condition of Palestinians outside of the Palestinian territories. I, on the other hand, have written and spoken out about the inhuman conditions in which they are forced to live in places like Lebanon, Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. After decades living in these and other countries they are denied citizenship. They are prevented from entering into the national work force. They are not allowed proper education that would allow them to study and become useful professionals in many fields.

Isn't this ethnic discrimination? Forced to live separately from the indiginous population is, surely, apartheid? Where is your protest in support of the people you claim to love?

If you really care about the Palestinian condition you should be demonstrating about the continuing saga of confining them in refugee camps in these so-called 'friendly' Arab states. So who is more international about human rights for Palestinians? You, or me?

<snip>


If you really stand up for human rights abuses why have you remained silent over the abuse of w omen's rights in Palestinian society? I have written and spoken about the repression of women under Arab and Palestinian control. Why haven't you? Why do you condone, by your silence, honor killings as respectable behavior in Palestinians households, not to mention genital mutilation of girls? If you truly stand for Palestinian human rights you should be demanding the major human rights organizations to investigate this serious tradition of abuse against women and girls.

Why don't you join me in protesting these abuses? Or is you advocacy for Palestinians confined only on issues that allow you to attack Israel? Are you simply echoing the 'Palestinian narrative' as it applies to Israel while ignoring the gross abuses they suffer from their own leadership and other Arab regimes?

more...
http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/guest/entry/my_letter_to_a_palestinian

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

65. um.....what? n/t

[shira]

66. An empirical test for academic hypocrisy

I and others have often written that many ‘critics’ of Israel who purport to be concerned with issues of human rights, fairness, racism and so on actually have a different agenda. We’ve claimed that they are more concerned with demonizing the Jewish state than helping its alleged ‘victims’.

Sometimes it’s not hard to show that ‘non-political’ human rights groups, for example, actually have a financial interest in bashing Israel. For example, there is the case of Human Rights Watch fund-raising in Saudi Arabia, or the huge sums donated to extremist non-governmental organizations in Israel by the European Union.

But what about the legions of anti-Israel academics who are always prepared to bash Israel in the vilest terms? They claim to be motivated by concern for human rights — but are they?

Now Fred Gottheil, a professor of Economics at the University of Illinois, has devised an empirical test to find out. Dr. Gottheil took the case of a petition addressed to President Obama after the Gaza war in December-January 2008-9

<snip>

Gottheil carefully checked the credentials of the signers and excluded those who were outside of the US, or who were non-academics. In the case of graduate students, only those with evidence of teaching or published research were included. He ended up with 675 names, to which he sent the Statement of Concern, along with a request for endorsement. He did not indicate any connection between his statement and the Lloyd petition.

You probably know what’s coming, but it is even more outrageous than you think:

Only thirty of the 675 “self-described social-justice seeking academics” responded, 27 of them agreeing to endorse the Statement. But these 27 signatories represent less than five percent of the 675 contacted. In other words, 95 percent of those who had signed the Lloyd petition censuring Israel for human rights violation did not sign a statement concerning discrimination against women and gays and lesbians in the Middle East.

But wait! There’s more:

As many as 25 percent of the Lloyd petition-signing academics were faculty associated with gender and women studies departments. Yet of these, only 5 endorsed the Statement calling for attention to the discrimination against women in the Muslim countries of the Middle East. Put more bluntly, 164 of the 169 faculty who had chosen to focus their life’s work on matters affecting women, and who felt comfortable enough to affix their names to Lloyd’s petition censuring Israel, chose not to sign a Statement of Concern about documented human rights violations against gays, lesbians, and women in the Middle East.

more...
http://cifwatch.com/2010/09/06/an-empirical-test-for-academic-hypocrisy/

[whosinpower]

67. Looked all over

But could not find the actual statement of concern. Where is his four page document? It is hard to verify the reasons WHY these academics chose to not sign on without reading the actual document.

Could it be that these people would wonder if there could possibly be an alternative intent given that the good professor is an economics professor....why would he suddenly be gravely concerned with the rights of women, gays and lesbians in the middle east.....what purpose was given of the petition? This seems like a short-sighted study that is filled with flaws and was only initiated to confirm Dr. Gottheil's own viewpoint. This setup strongly hints of confirmation bias.

[shira]

68. I'm searching for the petition too, but if you've read through this thread it's not hard to believe

....that many claiming they're for universal human rights turn out to be sanctimonious hypocrites. In another thread here, you'll find Castro's past butchery and his denial of basic human rights to Cubans being defended.

[whosinpower]

69. You believe what you want to

I know that sending out something does not always guarentee a response. Lots of people do not read everything that comes to them. You jump to agreement with what the professor stated...but without actually reading his statement of concern - I will not jump to the same conclusion that you appear eager to embrace. Not until a pesky little thing like FACTS are available.

[azurnoir]

70. Where else does Dr G publish why the Tea Bag supporting American Thinker

http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/42323/665942.html

the whole thing set off my BS detector perhaps acedemics are too well versed in the rightwing "concern" for Muslim women over the years I've seen a veritable river of (crocodile) tears shed over this issue perhaps these academics know this ploy too

[whosinpower]

71. And frontpagemag....

The story has too many holes in it....nothing is verifiable. What guarentees did the professor have that the academics actually recieved the packages and read them? None. While his experiment was interesting, the procedures he used and the conclusion he came to are not rock solid.

If all the packages were returned with a "no thank you" attached - then at least we would know that they recieved them and read them.....but not replying is definately not proof of hypocrisy.

Here is another example - if a muslim Imam wrote a statement of support for gun rights, and sent them to 1000 NRA members - if only 10 replied - does that mean the other 990 members are hypocrits?

[azurnoir]

72. agreed and I too would like to see the poll itself

was it what is known as a "push poll" were the questions worded to get the response it did?

[shira]

74. He wrote to the academics who responded to the Israel petition...

...so they should have been more likely to respond to his advocacy letter than a random sample of academics.

Check out the rest of this thread, starting with the OP. Why is this so difficult to believe? Simply compare the amount of information you can find by googling Israel human rights abuses against Palestinians vs. Hamas, PA, Lebanon, Jordan, etc... human rights abuses vs. Palestinians.

It's no contest.

Seriously, how is it possible to argue that advocates for Palestinian human rights are generally concerned about Palestinian rights when they're violated by anyone other than Israel? Can you honestly say most advocates for Palestinian human rights are equally concerned when those rights are violated by the PA, Hamas, Lebanon, Jordan, etc.? Because if so, what explains the fact that 99% of all reports on Palestinian human rights violations paint Israel as the abuser?

[shira]

76. Yes, Rightwing concern for Muslim women is as sanctimonious and hypocritical...

....as the fake concern for Palestinian human rights. Note the utter lack of advocacy for Palestinian human rights under Hamas, PA, Lebanese, or Jordanian control.

[shira]

73. Email him and ask for the letter he sent. I'll wait. n/t

[azurnoir]

75. open letter to Dr Gottheil

Dr. Gottheil:

While I find the story as posted (both here and at other sites) troubling, I am very interested in getting more information about all that went on before jumping to any conclusions.

Please post:
1) the content of your Statement of Concern, along with the names of those who signed it,
2) the list of names to whom you sent the petition and the method by which you contacted them,
3) any proof you have that those who did not sign it actually received and read it,as opposed to just throwing it away as spam/junk mail,
4) any follow-up you or anyone else did with those academics who did not sign your Statement, to find out firsthand why they did not sign
5) as you seem to have access to it, Dr. Lloyd's petition and signature list from 2009.

Assuming the story is as you say it is, I would be most interested in hearing what these academics have to say for themselves, and hope that there will be vigorous follow-up, both in the old and new media. For that to happen, however, you're going to have to release some/all of the items listed above, so that others can continue the story where you left off...

I would like to see the whole truth exposed, and I look forward to seeing the information I've requested available for public consumption and scrutiny.

I'll be watching for your speedy reply.

http://whatdisay.blogspot.com/2010/09/open-letter-to-dr-fred-gottheil.html

I will be waiting for Gottheil's reply

[shira]

77. You should consider emailing him that exact post here...

[e-mail]

From this site...
http://fredgottheil.com/contact/

[azurnoir]

78. why it seems redundant n/t

[shira]

79. Perhaps tell him you're looking forward to his response. n/t

[azurnoir]

80. while I am curious about Dr Gottheils concern's

I'll give you some "red meat" while we wait to see if the good Dr responds

the original letter that was signed by the academics he contacted

I'll post the last paragragh of this letter to then President elect Obama

There is no road to peace through such injustice. It may be that the compromise in the end will be the establishment and security of two separate states. Almost certainly, the only hope of a lasting solution is a single state in Israel/Palestine, committed to the civil and human rights of all peoples within its boundaries, irrespective of religion or ethnicity. That is, after all, the standard to which we hold all other states in the world, Israel alone excepted. But no solution at all will be possible until we hold Israel accountable for its criminal violence and its illegal acts, until we cease to supply it with the means to pursue a course of domination and expansion, with arms and warplanes, with finance and diplomatic support. In wake of the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, your recent expression of "deep concern" is not enough. It is time for constructive disengagement from Israel, financial, diplomatic, military. What worked in the case of South Africa, divestment and pressure, may finally work in the Middle East.

Without such justice, there will be no peace.

David Lloyd

University of Southern California Los Angeles

January 1, 2009

http://www.caiaweb.org/node/1076

[oberliner]

82. Text of the Statement of Concern has been posted

Post #81 in this thread.

[azurnoir]

83. having read that letter do you beleive it to 100% factual?

with no omissions?

[oberliner]

90. I haven't studied it all that closely

Have not done any fact-checking.

[LeftishBrit]

139. Then those who signed this are very unrealistic people

A single-state solution is not possible at this time. And a two-state solution will not be achieved by 'constructive disengagement'.

But how many academics are there in the United States? I would guess that 900 - the number that apparently signed this petition - is a pretty tiny proportion.

[oberliner]

81. Here is the text of the Statement of the Concern

A Statement of Concern
Calling for Support Regarding Discrimination in the Middle East against Women, Gays, and Lesbians.

This document is not a petition. It is, instead, a statement of concern addressing the problem of human rights abuses that appears to be pervasive in the Middle East. Having offered your name last January to the list of academics on American campuses who petitioned President Obama to reconsider our relationship with Israel, we ask that you now join us in expressing your concern about human rights abuses practiced against gays and lesbians and against women in many of the Middle Eastern countries, including the territories controlled by the Palestinian Authority. There are other gender-based human rights violations in the region but by concentrating on these particularly egregious ones, we will be able to focus support for the victims of these abuses, and perhaps in this way help change the environment that fosters such long-practiced violations.

This statement of concern, along with its list of academic signatories, will be put in the public domain; to be made available to our colleagues, to members of Congress, to government people in the Middle East, and to the media. To repeat: It does not call upon any persons, organizations, or governments to take specific action.

The information offered below is meant only to highlight the ideas held and practices condoned by people in authoritative positions in the Middle East. Documentation is derived from sources as widespread as United Nations agencies, survey research units, the High Commissioner for Human Rights, academic journals, NGOs such as Asylum-Law and Human Rights Watch, and from media reporting offered on the Internet, such as BBC.

Discrimination against Gays and Lesbians

Allegations and evidence of discrimination against gays and lesbians is compelling. Asylum-Law, an organization aiding asylum-seeking persons worldwide reports that treatment of gay men in Arab countries is particularly distressing. Punishment for acts of homosexuality varies. In Saudi Arabia, capital punishment – beheading – applies. Syrians convicted of practicing homosexuality serve three years’ imprisonment. Most other sources describe the physical abuse of and long-terms prison terms for gays in Egypt, the West Bank and Gaza. Specific laws against homosexuality exist in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Algeria, Sudan, Tunisia, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Syria, and Libya. The 2001 amendment to Iraq’s 1990 Penal Code made homosexual behavior between consenting adults a crime. The 1991 Iranian Constitution allows execution for sodomy. Specifically, Articles 108-113: “Sodomy is a crime, for which both partners are punished. The punishment is death if the participants are adults, of sound mind and consenting; the method of execution is for the Sharia judge to decide.” A documented testimony from a 19-year old Palestinian homosexual claims that he had been pressured by the al-Aqua Martyr’s Brigade to become a suicide bomber in order to purge his moral guilt.

Religious authority supports and even promotes these practices. According to prominent Muslim clerics, Sharia law mandates the death penalty for homosexuality. Among such authority, Cleric Sheikh Ali Amar offers that “Muslims believe that homosexual behavior is an offence against Islam and anyone who behaves this way should be sentenced to death without compassion.” Egyptian scholar Shaykh Dr. Yusuf Abdahhal al-Qaradawi, director of the Sunna and Sira Council, Qatar, cites Sharia law to declare that a Qatari Prince, ousted from political office on grounds of homosexuality, should be stoned to death. Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the spiritual leader of Iraqis’ Shitte Muslims concurs. Kuwaiti cleric Dr. Sa’d al-‘Inzi cites article 203 of the Kuwaiti Penal Code as sanctioning death: “According to Islamic law, a homosexual should be thrown from a tall building.”

Gender Discrimination

Gender discrimination – wife beating, honor killing, and genital mutilation – against women is sanctioned by both legal and religious authority and has been planted in varying degrees into cultural habits and institutions. The legitimacy and justification for wife beating is found in the Surra 4:34: “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others … good women are therefore obedient … and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them.”

Various clerical interpretations of this Surra range from beating doesn’t mean physical, to beating means only open-handed slaps, to beating must avoid delicate parts of the body, to beating is a beating. That clerics differ on this matter is acknowledged, but the legitimacy of and justification for wife beating is nonetheless appreciated. Dr. Muhammas al-Hajj, lecturer on Islamic faith at the University of Jordan argues that the central issue is guardianship of the family and that domination and subordination are properly gender based. Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America, answers the question “Does Islam allow wife beating?” by replying that wife beating is permissible in cases of persistent insubordination.

Algerian-born Iman Abdel Qader Bouziane was expelled from France for advocating wife beating. Professor Sabri Abd al-Rauf of Al-Azhar University argued that the beatings are intended to instill fear. Sheik abd Al-Hamid al-Muhajir explained that the Koran stipulates when a husband can beat a disobedient wife. Sheik Muhmmad al-Mussayar, an Egyptian professor at Al-Azhar University describes what kind of woman may be beaten. Sheik Yousuf al-Badri, member of the Egyptian Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, asserts that since wife beatings are noted in the Koran and Sunna, it “means we’re allowed to beat.” Egyptian Cleric Galal al-Khatib is straightforward and blunt: “only a rod would help.”

Advocacy for female genital mutilation commands less of a consensus; its acceptance and promotion stem more from social custom than from religious instruction. But its practice in the Middle East, once thought minimal, is, in reality, widespread and expanding and a matter of much concern. The UN Commission on Human Rights, the World Health Organization, and the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women report that female genital mutilation has affected the lives of millions of women in Africa and the Middle East.

A 2005 UNICEF report claims an overwhelming percent of Egyptian women have undergone genital mutilation. Other sources report 60 percent for both Yemeni and Kurdish Iraqi women. There is strong circumstantial evidence of its practice in Syria and Jordan. Whether religiously prescribed or not, among rural populations most of the perpetrators and victims of female genital mutilation believe it to be religiously mandated. There is also enough authoritative religious voice to validate that view.

Clerical and government opposition to female genital mutilation is growing in the Middle East. Witness the 2006 conference at al-Azhar university sponsored by 20 esteemed clerics with its president, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qardawi, concluding that the practice “must be considered as a criminal aggression against mankind.” Yet Professor Muhammad Shamaa of the university’s Islamic Research Academy said that “it would take a long time before such an ancient custom disappears,” and admitted about the conference: “We simply did not invite those who disagree with us.”

And many Islamic clerics and educators do disagree; among them, the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi who stated that “whoever finds it serving the interests of his daughters should do it, and I personally support this under the current circumstances in the modern world.” Egyptian Sheikh Mustafa al-Azhari believes that the attempt to end the practice is a Western conspiracy. Mufti Sa’id al-Hijawi of Jordan declared female circumcision to be a “noble trait accepted by Islam even though it is not a necessity.” Past rector of Al-Azhar University, Sheikh Gad al-Haq noted that since the Prophet did not ban female circumcision, it was permissible. And Umdat al-Salik, e4.3, a much referred to manual of Shafi’i Islamic law, affirms that female circumcision is obligatory.

Honor killing – murder of a female who has allegedly committed an act that shamed her family – represents yet another form of violent discrimination against women. Male family members are judge and jury. The Islamist party in the Jordanian parliament condones it as part of Islam’s code. Egypt’s Ifta’ Council of al-Azhar University issued a fatwa stating that punishment for adultery should be left to the ruler. The mufti of Gaza, Sheikh Abd al-Karim Kahlut demands the death penalty. Jordanian minister of awqaf – an Islamic foundation – is more lenient arguing that “Shari’a is clear and she should be lashed eighty times. His colleague, Hamdi Murad, advises one hundred lashes for a first offence and death by stoning thereafter. In Saudi Arabia, tenth-grade textbooks teach that it is permissible to kill adulterers. Tarrad Fayiz, a Jordanian tribal leader explains its harshness: “A woman is like an olive tree. When its branch catches woodworm, it has to be chopped off so that society stays clean and pure.”

In Jordan, Syria, and Morocco, specific articles of their penal codes condone honor killing. Morocco’s Article 418 states that murder and beatings by a husband or by his accomplice are excusable if his wife is discovered in the act of adultery. Syria’s Article 548 protects the husband from penalty in cases where his wife or sister engages in adultery. In Jordan, Article 340 states that: “he who discovers one of his female relatives committing adultery and kills, wounds, or injures one of them is exempted from any penalty.”

In 2007, 21 honor killings were reported in the West Bank and 25 in Gaza. Saed Taha, dean of Qalqilya’s College of Islamic Law, criticized these killings on the grounds that they were not administered according to Sharia law. Although articles 19, 22, and 23 of the 2003 revised Constitution of the State of Palestine specify that women shall have the same rights, liberties, and duties of men, article 7 specifies that Sharia law is the main source of all civil and religious matters.

Most Middle Eastern countries adopted the 2006 treaty concerning discrimination against women, sponsored by the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women but with provisos. In the case of Egypt, the proviso addresses the relationship between positive law and the Islamic Sharia: “The Egyptian legal system is based on a number of legislative levels, of which constitutional principles and precepts are foremost, followed by legal principles. The legislative authority is therefore bound to apply constitutional principles when enacting laws. Any violation by the legislative authorities of these principles would be considered as flouting the Constitution. In article 2, the Constitution states that the principles of the Islamic Shariah are the primary source of legislation. They are an obligation by which the legislative authorities are bound when issuing laws.” In substance, then, the proviso undermines the force of the treaty

Express Your Concern

The referenced material offered here is obviously only the tip of the discrimination iceberg. As academics who have already been a signatory to a petition declaring concern for human rights abuses practiced in one country of the Middle East, please exercise this privilege to express your concern now about the widely practiced and condoned discrimination against women, gays and lesbians in the many countries of that same region. Please join us by affirming this call for support. You can sign on to this statement by replying to this email with a one-word reply: YES. Please do so as soon as possible.

Fred Gottheil,

University of Illinois,

Urbana-Champaign

[whosinpower]

84. I find the statement of concern to be

Valid, well researched and clear. If it was sent to me, and I read it, I probably would sign yes.

Having said that, it is disingenuous to take the conclusion that by not replying, automatically means no. I may not have read the document. This is the flaw in the experiment. Perhaps the professor would be prudent to do a follow up in order to determine the real reason why these academics chose not to add their names, instead of jumping to a conclusion and insinuating they are hypocrits. Although, at this point, it would be difficult to do.

It could be that these academics who put their names onto a document suffered negative consequences to the point where they are gun-shy to do the same thing again. That does not reflect whether or not they agree with the statement.

[azurnoir]

85. there are some convenient omissions

such as this one

Egypt's Ministry of Health and Population has banned all forms of female genital cutting since 2007.<78> The ministry's order declared it is 'prohibited for any doctors, nurses, or any other person to carry out any cut of, flattening or modification of any natural part of the female reproductive system'. Islamic authorities in the nation also stressed that Islam opposes female circumcision. The Grand Mufti of Egypt, Ali Gomaa, said that it is "Prohibited, prohibited, prohibited."<80> The June 2007 Ministry ban eliminated a loophole that allowed girls to undergo the procedure for health reasons.<81> There had previously been provisions under the Penal Code involving "wounding" and "intentional infliction of harm leading to death", as well as a ministerial decree prohibiting FGC. In December 1997, the Court of Cassation (Egypt's highest appeals court) upheld a government banning of the practice providing that those who did not comply would be subjected to criminal and administrative punishments. This law had proved ineffective and in a survey in 2000, a study found that 97% of the country's population still practiced FGC. In light of the widespread practice of FGC, even after the ban in 1997, some Egyptian villages decided to voluntarily give up the practice, as was the case with Abou Shawareb, which vowed in July 2005 to end the practice. However, it remains a culturally accepted practice, and a 2005 study found that over 95% of Egyptian women have undergone some form of FGC.<82>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting

it is the reason the 2005 study is cited

also I am curious as to how the poster came upon this statement of "concern" I would not have signed simply on the premuse that it was obvious that imo gottheil was on a phishing trip

[whosinpower]

88. I did not know that

You have a point - Gottheil was fishing. The academics had two options - sign yes and have their name posted agreeing to the statement - or not sign at all and be labelled a hypocrit - albeit without their name posted.

If it was a "mistake" for them to sign onto the January document - that is if they, or their school received negative feedback as a result, they may have decided not to put their name out there at all anymore.

I suppose it is important for everyone to fully read, understand and research everything before agreeing to sign your name to it. Once burned....twice shy.....

[shira]

92. Honestly, how much lit. do you see these academics pushing WRT basic human rights in the mideast

...in which Israel isn't involved?

And what does this tell you?

[azurnoir]

86. there is another reason apparently Gotttheil is a supporter if not member of Campus Watch

a group which "polices" classrooms and Professors for "anti-Israel" bias

http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/8536

[oberliner]

91. That the whole thing is treated as a game is more than a little annoying

I wish we could all just work together towards causes where common ground is shared without trying to trick or trap one another in some kind of gotcha exercise.

[LeftishBrit]

142. I wish I could k&r this post!

[azurnoir]

87. How did you happen to come by this letter of concern? n/t

[oberliner]

89. Googled it

Posters were asking about it here so I googled it until I found it.

Didn't take more than a minute or two.

[LeftishBrit]

140. There is a question that occurs to me here.

What has been done with this 'Statement of Concern', other than use it as an example of anti-Israel academics' hypocrisy?

Has Fred Gottheil seriously attempted to get it signed by academics more generally, feminist groups, gay rights groups, etc.? Once signed, has he published the petition in widely-read newspapers, or sent it to American or Middle Eastern officials?

If his concern for gay rights and women's rights in the Middle East is genuine, he should have done any or all of these things. If he has used it just to show up other people's hypocrisy, and not to pursue the genuine concerns raised in the petition, then he's just as hypocritical as any of those he condemns.

And I speak as one who WOULD have signed *this* petition, and would NOT hsve signed the original one due to its call for disengagement from Israel, not just criticism of its policies.

[shira]

154. What do you think of the Israel critics Gotthiel exposed? The ones who are outspoken advocates...

...of rights for women and gays? They refused to sign on to Gotthiel's petition when they should have been the first.

What do you make of that?

The only thing I can think of is what I wrote above in #150.

[LeftishBrit]

158. Did they refuse, or simply fail to do so?

There are two possible reasons why, one bad, one good. The good one is that they may have seen through Gottheil's reasons for doing this, and wanted no part in the game. The bad one is that they may have indeed had double standards and only cared when it was Israel.

But Gottheil also seems to have have double standards, in that he seems to only care about exposing other people's double standards about Israel, not about actually doing his best to support human rights for women and gays in the Middle East. If it was the latter, then he would have promoted the petition much more systematically.

[shira]

160. I suspect most of the academic human rights advocates have rarely condemned mideast countries...

...for their treatment of women and LGBT.

It's not very PC to do so, but this is common knowledge.

Same reason the Lara Logan incident didn't receive as much attention as it would had it happened in a western nation, perpetrated by whites.

[shira]

93. The broken UN dream

The new report by the UN Human Rights Council should be framed and posted in every political science class in the world: It would be an advanced lesson on diplomatic cynicism and the broken UN dream.

This time too, in line with the fine tradition of this Council, the probe against Israel was managed with predetermined conclusions and a mandate to find the Jewish state guilty at any price.

The documented evidence of Turkish violence, the serious injuries suffered by Navy commandoes, and the proof of preplanned provocation evaporated in the face of the “dozens of testimonies and inquiries” undertaken by the Council.

There are days where you wake up in the morning and tell yourself that we’ve had enough of the typical Jewish suspicion. The world has progressed, and it is more enlightened, open, media-covered, and critical towards itself; a world where every act of injustice is exposed and where it is no longer possible to rewrite history or conceal reality behind words and interests.

Yet then we see the progressive committees of the UN – an organization established in 1945 in order to make humanity’s future better. Every time, they again reveal to us that despite all we’re still stuck in the darkness of the Middle Ages: Justice on behalf of the wealthy, acts of injustice carried out behind the backs of self-righteous figures, and an organization that not only fails to bring any benefit, but often causes damage.

more...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3959287,00.html

[shira]

94. Dream became a nightmare (re: UNHRC)

Saudi Arabia is one of the world’s worst human rights violators. It is not an electoral democracy and political opposition is forbidden. Freedom of speech is heavily restricted. The government maintains control of the media and responds harshly to criticism or deviation from its strict Islamic dogma.

Moreover, freedom of religion is nonexistent: All Saudis are required by law to be Muslim, while public practice of other religions is prohibited. Religious practices of Shiite and Sufi Muslims are also restricted. Arbitrary arrests and torture are not uncommon.

Discrimination against women is appalling: They may not drive cars, travel within or outside of the country without a male relative, or use public facilities freely in the presence of men. Employment rates of women are extremely low and their ability to take part in political life is minimal. The testimony of one man is equal to that of two women at the country's Sharia courts.

One might expect a body that calls itself "Human Rights Council" to devote a significant portion of its activity to criticism and condemnation of Saudi Arabia. But this is not the case. Not only has Saudi Arabia never been condemned by the UN Human Rights Council - it is a dignified member of this very body.

How can a country with virtually not connection to human rights be a member of a formal body dedicated to the promotion and protection of human rights around the world? Is that not similar to putting a wife-beater in charge of a women's shelter? Welcome to the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC), the most hypocritical and shameful body of an institution that knows a thing or two about hypocrisy and shame; a body that makes the UN more meaningless than ever.

more...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3959776,00.html

[shira]

95. Army: U.S. Soldiers Killed Afghan Civilians For Sport, Dismembered Bodies

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/18/armyus-soldiers-killed-af_n_722209.html

Now obviously, the Rightwing USA has no hope of ever again being progressive, America has no right to exist, and BSD is apparently the only way to go to stop this rogue nation of tea baggers.

:eyes:

Oh yeah.....where's Goldstone? :shrug:

[azurnoir]

96. Perhaps shira you should pay more attention the story was run in

the forums upstairs here are 2 from the latest breaking forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4554744
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4553580

and for good measure, also from the latest breaking forum

Call for 'Gaza style' inquiry on Afghan deaths

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4553818

[shira]

97. Not much activity on those threads. Is that about it WRT the DU reaction to this? n/t

[azurnoir]

98. there are not many comments but there are a substantional number of recs

Lol still complaining but hey at least your kicking your thread yet again

[shira]

99. Seriously, is that the extent of DU outrage to this incident? Imagine Israel were accused of this.

You don't find this lack of outrage and disgust odd?

[azurnoir]

100. getting a bit desperate are you ?

you can give whatever answer you want I have entertained this long enough

[shira]

101. Hence, the humanitarian "show". n/t

[azurnoir]

102. Or could be that something else happened that day that caught

the attention of DUer's and guess what Israel was not involved

*Breaking News* Three houses in Minneapolis raided, other houses in Michigan, NC, Chicago targeted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4551777

[shira]

103. Lamest.Excuse.Ever. n/t

[azurnoir]

104. yeah 316 comments and 149 recs is lame huh? n/t

[shira]

105. Daughter of Che Guevara Meets Hizbullah Leaders in Lebanon:

Daughter of Che Guevara Meets Hizbullah Leaders in Lebanon: 'If We Do Not Conduct Resistance, We Will Disappear from the Face of the Earth'
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4699.htm


Che's Daughter Embraces Islamists in Common Struggle
http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2010/10/ches-daughter-embraces-islamists-in.html

Where are Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin when you need them? They might have said, “The reactionary clerical-fascist forces try to fool the working class through the opiate of religious demagoguery. But the proletariat will continue to fight against the evil minions of the imperialists.” Yes, I made that up but they would have said something like that about Hizballah.

Not since the Hitler-Stalin Pact of 1939, which emboldened Adolf Hitler to launch World War Two, have we seen such a convergence of the “left” revolutionaries and the “right” revolutionaries.

If Che Guevara had been a Muslim, Hizballah would have executed him.

I can only wish that all the Hizballah members had to live in a Marxist state and all the Marxists (and their spiritual heirs) in an Islamist state.

Oh, right, there was a little war in Afghanistan about that.

OK, I’ll stop here since neither sarcasm nor satire suffices in situations like this in this wacky era of ours.

[shira]

106. The Palestinian Refugees: Why Is Everyone Lying To Them?

Palestinian Authority leaders are now saying that they will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state because that would mean that they would have to give up the "right of return" for millions of Palestinians to their original homes inside Israel.

These leaders are actually continuing to deceive the refugees into believing that one day they will be permitted to move into Israel.

The Palestinian Authority, like the rest of the Arab governments, has been lying to the refugees for decades, telling them that one day their dream of returning to their villages and towns, many of which no longer exist, would be fulfilled.

Meanwhile, the refugees are continuing to live in harsh conditions in their UNRWA-administered camps in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.

No Arab or Palestinian leader has ever dared to confront the refugees with the truth, namely that they are not going to move into Israel. On the contrary, Palestinian and Arab leaders continue to tell these people that they will go back to their former villages and towns.

Arab and Palestinian governments are lying to the refugees because they want to avoid any responsibility toward their plight. The Arab governments hosting the refugees have done almost nothing to improve the living conditions of the refugees.

On the contrary, Palestinian refugees living in Syria, Lebanon and Jordan have long been subjected the victims of racism and other repressive and unjust measures and laws that deprive them even of basic rights. Governments such as Jordan receive a payment for each refugee, turning the refugees into nothing more than property, like stocks on Wall Street.

more...
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1616/palestinian-refugees

[shira]

107. Iran to sit on UN women's rights board?

Iran, where a woman convicted of adultery has been sentenced to death by stoning, is likely to become a member of the board of the new UN agency to promote equality for women, prompting outrage from the US and human rights groups.

Some rights groups are also upset that Saudi Arabia, where women are not allowed to drive and are barred from many facilities used by men, is also vying to join the governing body of UN Women.

Iran, where a woman convicted of adultery has been sentenced to death by stoning, is likely to become a member of the board of the new UN agency to promote equality for women, prompting outrage from the US and human rights groups.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3976083,00.html

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

delete. n/t

[shira]

115. It's a sign that the UN human rights commission is a complete joke with Iran on the board.

And no, it's not racist that authentic human rights organizations are outraged that Saudi Arabia and Iran are trying to get on a human rights commission for women's rights.

[shira]

108. UN: Easements brought no change to Gaza

The United Nations is unimpressed with Israel's easing of restrictions on the Gaza Strip, the BBC reported Thursday. The head of UN operations in Gaza said that despite the additional goods crossing over, few people have actually noticed a difference in quality of life.

"There's been no material change for the people on the ground here in terms of their status, the aid dependency, the absence of any recovery or reconstruction, no economy," John Ging told the BBC.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3983022,00.html

How is this possible if Mary Robinson and others are now claiming there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza?

:eyes:

How is Hamas able to build new shopping malls if materials aren't getting through?

:shrug:

Egypt opened its border after the Marmara incident, but nothing has changed?

=========

Maybe the answer is that Hamas prefers things the way they are.

[shira]

109. Proud To Be An Anti-Semite

<snip>

For her part, Duisenberg (who once boasted that Holland’s future Queen Maxima — the popular, Argentina-born wife of Crown Prince Willem Alexander — claimed to be “a huge admirer” of her work) thinks it’s time for the Dutch to “get over” the Holocaust. She has berated the “all-powerful Jewish lobby” both in the Netherlands and America for its influence on foreign and domestic policies. She has flown the Palestinian flag from the balcony of her home in the largely Jewish section of Amsterdam South. And she has marched in pro-Palestinian demonstrations alongside Muslim youth who chanted “Hamas, Hamas, All Jews To the Gas” without issuing so much as a reprimand or complaint.

This, of course, was permissible. It conforms, indeed, to a statement from Stop de Bezetting (Stop the Occupation), the organization of which she is chairwoman, that explained that Duisenberg “wants to continue to drive the debate about Palestine and Israel – but within certain boundaries.” In other words, she wants the right to spread hate-filled lies (she recently, for instance, maintained in an interview that Jews kidnapped Palestinian boys, removed various internal organs and brought them back to Gaza) – but not to be made accountable for doing so.

more...
http://blogs.forbes.com/abigailesman/2010/11/08/gretta-duisenberg-proud-to-be-an-anti-semite/

[shira]

110. Gretta Duisenberg’s Unambiguous Antisemitism

http://cifwatch.com/2010/11/12/gretta-duisenbergs-unambiguous-antisemitism/

Excerpts...

Among the Working Definition’s specific examples of antisemitism are:

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.

Duisenberg is a supporter of extremist Islam, and formerly of the PLO and Hamas whose nihilistic antisemitism in evident in its Charter and has been proven by its murderous behaviour again and again. In 2003 Duisenberg organised and spoke at pro Palestinian rally at which donations were collected for the Al Aqsa funds which supports the families of suicide bombers. She also did not protest against in the chanting of Hamas supporters around her of “Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas!”

Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

After the 2003 rally, Duisenberg draped a PLO flag from the balcony of her home in Amsterdam. When requested by her Jewish neighbours to take it down, they were told; “It’s the rich American Jews who make it possible for Israel to do what they are doing to the Palestinians”. More recently, in January 2010, Duisenberg added to this calumny by engaging in the too-ready conflation of Zionism with Judaism, invariably the hallmark of the antisemite who is trying to pass. See also Duisenberg’s answer in an interview in the Dutch magazine Keuzevrijheid :

“… These are the tactics of the Jewish lobby. By calling me an antisemite I will not be able to criticise the Zionist regime…”

This is as blatant an example of the Livingstone Formulation* as was the original by Ken Livingstone himself:

*(The Livingstone Formulation wilfully muddies the distinction between legitimate criticism of Israel on the one hand, and treating Israel as a unique evil on the other and it alleges that a powerful Jewish or Zionist plot or ‘lobby’ is engaged in a deceitful campaign to illegitimately protect Israel from criticism of things that it does wrong.)

Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust). Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.

See the interview mentioned above. The following is a translation of part of it from the original Dutch. Duisenberg’s accusations of there being a holocaust in Gaza, and her linking it to the Nazi holocaust of Jews as well as references to Israelis as Nazis are in bold below:

“Why do they say you are an anti-semite?

“These are the tactics of the Jewish lobby. By calling me an anti-Semite I will not be able to criticise the Zionist regime. It is not the Jews who are not good, the zionist ideology is not okay. The Jewish lobby is incredibly strong here and in America.


“The total closure of Gaza is against international law, human rights and the conventions of Geneva. But Israel does not give a damn. There are 39 UN resolutions not executed but Israel has a free pass. It is about time that we, the Dutch, get rid of our eternal feelings of guilt about the holocaust. That feeling is forced upon us by the Jewish lobby. We are certainly guilty, and especially the Nazi’s, but the Palestinians are not. The Holocaust should never happen again, but essentially another one is taking place over there. There is separation, colonisation, and an apartheid system. We were stupid enough to give an inhabited piece of land to the Jews.

“To the Jews it is the promised land…


“That’s not the essence for them. They are the self-styled chosen people. That’s what the Nazis also said about Aryans. The others (not Aryans) had to disappear.

“Which choices do you regret in retrospect?


“I do not have any regrets. But I regret the fact that to this day it follows after me that I had meant the victims of the Second World War when I actually meant that I hoped to collect six million signatures against the Palestinian occupation. I never for a second thought about that. I meant a multiple of the 600 signatures we had already collected.”


(Given Duisenberg’s sentiments and behaviour, this is far more likely to have been a Freudian slip than a mere mistake. She is trying, in vain, to dig herself out of a hole of her own making).


“If so, why did you say it?

“It was the euphoria. We had just started with “Stop The Occupation”. I gave a lecture and people listened to us. The remark was the result of loose talk, it was too spontaneous. In the beginning I reacted solely out of emotions and concern. Now I would not use these kind of expressions anymore, now I resort more to international law. I have to be extremely careful. When I say that Jews in South Amsterdam are annexing restaurants, I will again be engulfed by critics, but it is true. When I enter they leave. But I do not see any wrongdoing by saying that….”

(There we have it. Duisenberg does not “see any wrongdoing” when she makes antisemitic remarks, which makes a nonsense of the “I meant a multiple of 600″ excuse above. She does not regret them, rather she “regrets” people’s reactions to them).

[azurnoir]

111. Abraham Moszkowicz 3rd attempt at sueing her been thrown out

or is he too busy defending Geert Wilders?

[shira]

112. Duisenberg is quite a nasty antisemitic piece of work, don't you think? n/t

[shira]

114. Ben Dror Yemini vs. Gideon Levy (Baron of the Industry of Lies)

Excerpt...

===========

Coalition of Israel Haters

Levy tells the interviewer that Noam Chomsky compares him to the prophets of Israel. He is so modest. This is a dubious honor because Chomsky, who paid Hezbollah leader Nasrallah a visit, sees good tidings and blessings in all Israel haters. And Chomsky is not alone. David Duke, a white racist from the KKK, publishes a Gideon Levy article on his blog. Birds of a feather flock together. And so the parade of Levy's fans continues.

In the past few weeks, Levy was on the lecture circuit and was hosted, for example, at a pro-Hamas organization, which in the past sponsored Azam Tamimi to be part of a Holocaust memorial event. Tamimi is a Hamas member who supports terrorism and Israel's destruction. These are the circles Levy moves in. His admirers are Hamas supporters, Chomsky and Duke. Levy supplies them with material. His material is theirs: hatred of Israel.

"Did you ever consider not speaking the truth?" asked the interviewer, one of Levy's fans. A serious journalist would have asked the more appropriate question: "Did you ever consider speaking the truth?"

***

It's sad, because Gideon Levy proclaims (in the interview) that he engages in "self-criticism." Once upon a time, this was true. He uncovered wrong-doings. He played a vital role. But something happened to him. He doesn't deal with facts anymore but with propaganda. And thus, even if there were any substance to one out of ten of his assertions, it is swallowed up by the sea of his lies. One should not underestimate Levy, however. He has a global name. He may be the most famous and the most invited journalists in Israel. He has countless platforms. A one man propaganda show.

In the Fascist Camp

There is another urban myth that needs to be refuted. Gideon Levy is the proud peacock of the "peace camp." There is no greater lie than this.

Let's clarify: Levy argues that it is necessary to re-humanize the Palestinians in order to advance peace. He's right. Kahanist-Fascists who demonize the Palestinians are not "peace activists." And, by the same token, one who demonizes Israelis and portrays them as cruel brutes is also not a "peace activist." One who justifies Hamas and its terrorist acts is not a "peace activist" just like one who is tolerant of a "price tag" policy or the arson of mosques is not a "peace activist." But Levy finds it difficult to comprehend that he and the fascists belong to the same camp, a camp of hate-mongering and strife.

Let's return to the angry young stranger, at the beginning of the article, who asked me about Gideon Levy. Even after everything mentioned above and even though Levy has turned into one of the leading barons of lies within the entire world - woe is to us, if we deny his right to spread his slander. There is only one appropriate way to deal with his lies: not to silence him, but to expose him. To refute the lies.

On the day that Gideon Levy is silenced or that a hair on his head is touched, Israel will turn into that monster that he creates in his feverish mind. We cannot give him that pleasure. We cannot punish ourselves like that.

more...
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=55&x_article=1947

[shira]

116. (Oct 2010) UN Rapporteur Says Conditions in West Bank Worse Than Gaza

http://newsblaze.com/story/20101023162330zzzz.nb/topstory.html

[shira]

117. (June 30, 2010) West Bank poverty 'worse than Gaza'

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/06/201062916845576597.html

[shira]

118. (Sept 17, 2010) Haaretz: Child malnutrition in W.Bank worse than in Gaza

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/suffering-of-palestinian-children-is-something-both-sides-can-agree-on-1.314309

"According to a 2009 report by Save The Children U.K. called "Life on the Edge," the rate of malnutrition of the children in Area C is higher even than that in Gaza, and many kids are not only developmentally stunted, but are dying from related illnesses."

[shira]

119. Reports of malnutrition, hunger, poverty in Israel

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x334119#337179

[shira]

120. NATO blows up thousands of homes in Afghanistan while the world is silent

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/world/asia/17afghan.html?_r=2

In recent weeks, using armored bulldozers, high explosives, missiles and even airstrikes, American troops have taken to destroying hundreds of them, by a conservative estimate, with some estimates running into the thousands.

...The campaign, a major departure from NATO practice in past military operations, is intended to reduce civilian and military casualties by removing the threat of booby traps and denying Taliban insurgents hiding places and fighting positions, American military officials said.

Of course, this - unlike Israel - is not a deliberate campaign to target the civilian population...

:eyes:

[LeftishBrit]

133. The world is not totally silent on this

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/05/14/afghanistan-us-should-act-end-bombing-tragedies

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/afghanistan-kandahar-bombing-and-nato-clinic-attack-highlight-increasing

http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2010/10/15/bombing-our-way-to-peace-afghanistan-2010-and-vietnam-1972.html

And yes, it is a serious attack on civilians

[shira]

121. Experts: No legal basis for Palestinian refugee demands

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3931910,00.html

The international community's position that it is preferable to fully settle disputes than to recognize refugees' right of return supported by a recent ruling by the European Court of Human Rights. The court debated the right of the Greek refugees who were expelled from northern Cyprus in 1974, and five months ago it ruled that due to the time that has passed, it would be wrong to rectify the situation by allowing them to return to their homes and expelling those who currently live in the area.

[shira]

122. United Nations: It's Okay to Kill Gays

NEW YORK, NY -- Last week, the Third Committee of the United Nations General Assembly voted on a special resolution addressing extrajudicial, arbitrary and summary executions. The resolution affirms the duties of member countries to protect the right to life of all people with a special emphasis on a call to investigate killings based on discriminatory grounds. The resolution highlights particular groups historically subject to executions including street children, human rights defenders, members of ethnic, religious, and linguistic minority communities, and, for the past 10 years, the resolution has included sexual orientation as a basis on which some individuals are targeted for death.

The tiny West African nation of Benin (on behalf of the UN's African Group) proposed an amendment to strike sexual minorities from the resolution. The amendment was adopted with 79 votes in favor, 70 against, 17 abstentions and 26 absent.

A collection of notorious human rights violators voted for the amendment including Afghanistan, Algeria, China, Congo, Cuba, Eritrea, North Korea, Iran (didn't Ahmadinejad tell the world there were no gays in Iran?), Egypt, Malaysia, Pakistan, Russia, Sudan, Uganda, Vietnam, Yemen, and Zimbabwe.

Add to this Bahamas, Belize (where you get 10 years for being gay), Jamaica (10 years of hard labor), Grenada (10 years), Guyana (life sentence), Saint Kitts and Nevis (10 years), Saint Lucia (10 years), Saint Vincent (10 years), South Africa (Apartheid? What apartheid?), and Morocco (ruled by a gay monarch!) are also on the list of nations that do not think execution of gays and lesbians is worthy of condemnation or investigation. (The full vote tally is published beneath this column.)

more...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thor-halvorssen/united-nations-its-okay-t_b_787024.html

[shira]

123. Gaza's Women: Who Is Defending Their Rights?

It is not easy to be a woman living under a fundamentalist Islamic regime like the one in the Gaza Strip. Over the past three years, women in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip have been facing a campaign of intimidation and terror that has forced many of them to sit at home and do nothing.

The fact that women are oppressed under radical Islamic regimes is of course very disturbing. But what is even more disturbing is the silence over abuse of women's rights in the Gaza Strip.

Has anyone heard prominent Palestinian spokeswoman Hanan Ashrawi come out in public against Hamas's repressive measures against Palestinian women? Where are local and international human rights organizations, especially those that claim to defend rights of women in the Arab and Islamic world?

Has any major media outlet in the West thought of making a documentary about the suffering of women under Hamas?

Or are they so obsessed with everything that Israel does that they prefer to turn a blind eye to what is happening in the Gaza Strip?

Has anyone dared to ask Hamas why sending women to carry out suicide bombings is all right, while it is not ok for them to walk alone on the beach or be seen in public with a man? Have "pro-Palestinian" groups in North America and Europe ever thought of endorsing the case of these women by raising awareness to their plight?

Since Hamas seized full control over the Gaza Strip in 2007, Palestinian women have been deprived of many of basic rights, such as strolling along the beach alone or smoking in public. Under Hamas, female lawyers are not allowed to appear in court unless they are wearing the hijab.

more...
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1677/gaza-women-rights

[shira]

124. "Pro-Palestinian" Journalist Robert Fisk fears Palestinian refugees becoming Lebanese citizens

‘One day – speak it not in Lebanon, of course – these Palestinians or their children may also become Lebanese. That, of course, will be the day that the Americans and Israelis finally obliterate the Palestinians’ UN-mandated “right of return”, when Lebanon will have to be paid billions to give them passports – the Lebanese, I fear, might accept – and when Lebanon will become (because the Palestinians are mostly Sunnis, with only a sprinkling of Christians who have their own camp in east Beirut) an undeniably Muslim country.’

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/lebanon-my-lebanon-a-stirring-new-photography-book-sparks-robert-fiskrsquos-memories-2136898.html

[shira]

125. 180,000 Palestinians Treated in Israeli Hospitals This Year

http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/News/today/10/11/2502.htm

[shira]

126. Iran helps rebuild Gaza

Gaza's residents are no longer complaining about a coriander shortage. Israeli snacks are flowing into the Strip as well, through the Kerem Shalom crossing – at the approval and under the full supervision of the Hamas government.

The lifting of the siege in June gave the Gazans room to breathe. With the money in the Strip – and there is quite a lot of it in dollars, dinars, and even shekels – they can buy whatever they want.

Food and other products flow into Gaza with hardly any restrictions. What doesn't come from Israel, because the price is too high, continues to flow in through the Rafah tunnels.

"There are a slew of products here, and beautiful restaurants. Is this the Gaza we have been hearing about?" A Sudanese official, who arrived in the Strip about a month ago with hundreds of visitors from Arab countries on the "Viva Palestina" aid convoy, was quoted by Palestinian news agency Maan as saying.

"Where is the siege? I don't see it in Gaza. I wish Sudan's residents could live under the conditions of the Gazan siege," he reportedly added.

more...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3990267,00.html

[shira]

127. Our World: The feminist deception

Nowhere is fraud at heart of feminist movement more apparent than in silence of inhumane treatment of women who live under Islamic law.

====

Making the rounds on YouTube these days is a film of a group of manly looking women preparing for and conducting a “flash dance” in a Philadelphia food store. The crew of ladies, dressed in tight black clothes and sequined accessories, arrives at The Fresh Grocer supermarket, breaks into a preplanned chant ordering shoppers not to buy Sabra and Tribe hummus and telling them to oppose Israeli “apartheid” and support “Palestine.”

From their attire and attitude, it is fairly clear that the participants in the video would congratulate themselves on their commitment to the downtrodden, the wretched of the earth suffering under the jackboot of the powerful. They would likely all also describe themselves as feminists.

But if being a human rights activist means attacking the only country in the Middle East that defends human rights, then that means that at the very basic level, the term “human rights activist” is at best an empty term. And if being a feminist means attacking the only country in the Middle East where women enjoy freedom and equal rights, then feminism too, has become at best, a meaningless term. Indeed, if these anti-Israel female protesters are feminists, then feminism is dead.

<snip>

The deception at the heart of the feminist movement is nowhere more apparent than in the silence with which self-professed feminists and feminist movements ignore the inhumane treatment of women who live under Islamic law. If feminism weren’t a hollow term, then prominent feminists should be the leaders of the anti-jihad movement.

Gloria Steinem and her sisters should be leading to call for the overthrow of the antifemale mullocracy in Iran and the end of gender apartheid in Saudi Arabia.

Instead, in 2008 Ms. Magazine, which Steinem founded and which has served as the mouthpiece of the American feminist movement, refused to run an ad featuring then foreign minister Tzipi Livni, Supreme Court President Dorit Beinisch and then speaker of the Knesset Dalia Itzik that ran under the headline, “This is Israel.”

It was too partisan, the magazine claimed.

<snip>

Leading feminist voices in the US and Europe remain unforgivably silent on the unspeakable oppression of women and girls in Islamic societies. And this cannot simply be attributed to a lack of interest in international affairs. Islamic subjugation and oppression of women happens in Western countries as well. Genital mutilation, forced marriage and other forms of abuse are widespread.

For instance, every year hundreds of Muslim women and girls in Western countries are brutally murdered by their male relatives in so-called “honor killings.”

more...
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=199339

[shira]

128. The Guardian’s Simon Tisdall feels Omar al-Bashir’s pain

http://cifwatch.com/2010/12/27/the-guardians-simon-tisdale-feels-omar-al-bashirs-pain/

[shira]

129. HRW and Its “Finite Resources” or Where is Mauritania? And Why Isn’t HRW Reporting on Slavery There?

In response to Robert Bernstein’s shattering October 20 New York Times Oped that HRW places disproportionate focus on Israel, members of HRW’s board responded that

“Human Rights Watch does not devote more time and energy to Israel than to other countries in the region, or in the world. We’ve produced more than 1,700 reports, letters, news releases, and other commentaries on the Middle East and North Africa since January 2000”

Well, one country HRW is not reporting on is the African country of Mauritania. HRWs “Browse by Country” page does not list Mauritania and neither is the country found on its Africa or North Africa pages. Mauritania is also conspicuously absent from HRW’s 2009 World Report.

The Islamic Republic of Mauritania is quite notorious, however for human rights violations. The government only criminalized slavery in 2007 and the enslavement of the black African population there remains rampant (estimates put the number around 600,000). A cached version of what appears to have been at one time HRW’s “Mauritania” page only lists two publications– one from 2003 and one from 2001 – and neither of these address slavery. Its only report documenting the repression of Mauritania’s black population by white “Moor” rulers dates back to 1994 – FIFTEEN YEARS ago. Even Amnesty International has several reports from 2008 on the systematic torture that is routine in the country.

Hmmm….Twenty Eight statements (and counting) in six months lobbying for the Goldstone mission and Zero reports on slavery in Mauritania in fifteen years? I guess the slaves of Mauritania will continue to suffer because as Ken Roth admitted in an interview in the Tablet, “’Why are we more concerned about the war rather than on other rights abuses?’ Well, we’ve got to pick and choose-we’ve got finite resources.”

http://blog.ngo-monitor.org/other-ngos/human-rights-watch/hrw-and-its-“finite-resources”-or-where-is-mauritania-and-why-isn’t-hrw-reporting-on-slavery-there/

[LeftishBrit]

134. It's an awful atrocity. And there *are* campaigns about it.

For those who wish to support such campaigns:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/AFR38/004/2010/en

http://www.antislavery.org/english/what_we_do/antislavery_international_today/award/2009_award_winner/slavery_in_mauritania.aspx

Or the following organization, which deals specifically with human rights in Mauritania:

http://www.almarsad.org/AlmarsadE.html

[shira]

165. But no campaigns about slavery in Mauritania by HRW in over 15 years. WHY?

Because the crimes being carried out in Mauritania aren't being committed by White males or Jews.

Victims are unimportant to HRW and violators are only criticized when they're white males or Jews.

[LeftishBrit]

172. The 'white males' part of this comes from right-wing propaganda

(Not saying that *you* are right-wing, but some of the sources that you use are. And yes, so are some of the sources used by pro-Palestinians.) Right-wingers love to allege 'reverse' discrimination against 'white males'.

The top story on Human Rights Watch currently is about oppression of women in Saudi Arabia.

The oppressors there are certainly male, but they are not (by most definitions) white, and they are certainly not Jewish.

More often, when I've checked the HRW front page its main stories have been about China: again not white or Jewish.

What is more accurate and unfortunate, is that poor, relatively small non-white countries that lack oil, and that are not seen as either friends or enemies of America, tend to get disproportionately little of the world's attention.

[shira]

174. Come on LB, Amesty admitted they're biased and HRW is worse than Amnesty

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x175318

Original article...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3402530,00.html

--------

Let's not pretend there exists no problem, no double-standard, hypocrisy...

Here's one of many on HRW...
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/for_hrw_israel_is_low_hanging_fruit_the_new_republic_adds_evidence_of_bias

[LeftishBrit]

176. There may be hypocrisy; but it is NOT in the direction of discrimination against those persecuted

white males!

ETA: I do not trust Lappin's reporting, as he is affiliated with the misleadingly-named Jewish Policy Center. This does not seem to reflect the broad spectrum of mainstream Jewish American views. They say in their mission statement:

'As such, the JPC strongly supports the global war against Islamic extremism. We also support U.S. efforts to spread democracy in the Middle East...

Domestically, the JPC also believes that Jewish Americans must break with the past. The JPC supports smaller government, lower taxes, free trade, and other issues.'

In other words, they sound like monsters of pure right-wing evil ('smaller government and lower taxes' almost always means pro-cuts and anti-welfare; pro-rich and anti-poor) who oppose the predominant liberal viewpoint among American Jews. I would not trust such people to comment on ANYTHING reliably.

[shira]

178. So what explains 15 years of HRW silence on Mauritania? n/t

[LeftishBrit]

182. I am not saying that HRW or any organization is perfect.

I am saying:

(a) that neglect of Mauritania may be because it's a poor country not seen as either a key ally or enemy of the USA. NOT because those poor persecuted white male leaders are suffering such horrible discrimination

(b) that all points made by right-wing pundits are embedded in an utterly evil agenda, so that they should not be used - if one of their points is accidentally correct, it is still twisted in the service of evil (just like with antisemites). We can criticize organizations and countries without quoting poisonous vermin, which ALL right-wing pundits are (whether pro-Israel, pro-Palestinian, or neither).

[shira]

183. Because Mauritania is a poor country?

What does that have to do with the actual victims of slavery there?

Seems like a good way to let the perpetrators in the government off the hook. The nation is poor so let it be...

[LeftishBrit]

185. Oh good grief; saying that poor countries ARE often neglected is not saying they SHOULD be

I don't justify the neglect of too many countries in the world; in fact the very FACT that many countries are poor is in itself proof that the world doesn't care enough.

I am saying that the world cannot solve the problem by looking at everything only in terms of how it relates to people's views on Israel. I simply do not think that if Israel's critics (or supporters) changed their views, they would focus on Mauritania instead.

And those who support 'the global war on terror' and want 'smaller government and lower taxes' are a serious part of the problem, since their views will inevitably (a) reduce the available amount of funding for foreign aid; (b) ensure that more of the available funding goes on military aid, rather than development and humanitarian projects.

[shira]

187. Sorry, I didn't mean it that way - only that those fighting for universal human rights

....cannot use that as an excuse.

And I agree that if Israel went away there probably wouldn't be a significantly greater focus in places like Mauritania.

The fact is that disproportionate focus on Israel, and in particular all the fabricated reports from HR groups, is pure bigotry and no better than what the UN (or UNHRC) practices daily. It goes much further than just a disproportionate focus. Many stories about Israeli violations of human rights are complete rubbish originating from Hamas, the PLO, and other vile rightwing antisemitic organizations. That the media and many academics generally (but not always) assist in this blatant bigotry makes it worse.

It's a show - an industry of lies.

And it doesn't help the Palestinians or the peace process. It sets it back. It allows legitimate criticism to be shrugged off because so much attention is wasted on fighting blatant bigotry.

[LeftishBrit]

186. There is a petition against slavery in Mauritania that people can sign

I don't know how much good it will do, but I have signed and recomment that others do so.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/501/653/652/

On a more long-term basis, I would recommend supporting the Anti-Slavery organization:

http://www.antislavery.org/english/what_we_do/antislavery_international_today/award/2009_award_winner/slavery_in_mauritania.aspx

[shira]

130. High Morals

A condescending moral double standard allows Western thinkers—notably Times foreign-affairs columnist Roger Cohen—to praise the Middle East’s worst regimes.

<snip>

Look around the region: Every bloody government and non-state actor has attracted a cohort of Western fans who feed off of the brand of gore in which those institutions specialize. Some people, like former British intelligence official Alastair Crooke, praise Hamas and Hezbollah as proud resistance organizations. As Michael Young, the Lebanese journalist and author of The Ghosts of Martyr Square: An Eyewitness Account of Lebanon’s Life Struggle, says, “To many Westerners it represents an Arab authenticity, in contrast to the pro-democracy March 14 movement whose members too much resemble Westerners like themselves.” An entire Beltway industry, including former and current U.S. policymakers, diplomats, and intelligence officials, is devoted to rapprochement with Syria’s vicious and kleptocratic regime, the importance of which to U.S. regional policy they wildly overstate lest anyone scrutinize too closely how Damascus targets U.S. citizens and U.S. allies. Then there are the cheerleaders for the Islamic Republic of Iran, for whom the country’s leaders and security services are incapable of any rape or murder so vile that would lose it the support even of fans like Flynt and Hillary Mann Leverett.

<snip>

Consider, for instance, Tony Judt, the late historian of modern Europe, who argued that it would be a good thing for the Jewish state to disappear and for millions of other human beings to forfeit their political rights because he was personally frustrated by Israel’s post-1967 political direction. Because the reality of Israel did not fulfill his psychological needs, others were to pay for his disappointments.

In their own minds, Westerners like Cohen and Judt have risen above the facile judgments of their peers in order to understand deeper truths. They are the supermen who rose in place of the idols. However, their problem is that even if the gods did perish, moral judgment was not in their power to take away since is was not them who gave it to us in the first place. These intellectuals who feed their egos with the suffering of others are not gods. They are simply people who are lucky enough to live in the West, where the consequences of their moral blindness are visited on other people, who live far away.

more...
http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/55019/high-morals/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=high-morals

[shira]

131. U.N. investigations chief under investigation

:eyes:

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The acting chief of the U.N. division that investigates wrongdoing in the world body is currently under investigation himself for allegedly retaliating against two whistle-blowers, according to a U.N. document.
Michael Dudley asked the U.N. Disputes Tribunal to suspend an investigation into the allegations — but tribunal Judge Marilyn J. Kaman, in a ruling released this week and obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, rejected his request "in its entirety."

Dudley questioned whether the whistle-blowers had acted in good faith and challenged the authority of the U.N. Ethics Office, which had determined that a "prime facie case of retaliation for each complaint existed." He claimed his candidacy for the director's position would be adversely affected by an "illegal investigation based on a malicious complaint" by an individual who had applied for the deputy director's position that he now holds.

Usually, the investigation division of the Office of Internal Oversight Services, known as OIOS, investigates allegations of retaliation and other internal U.N. cases. But because Dudley is the division's acting director and the whistle-blowers worked for OIOS, the Ethics Office asked Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to approve an alternative investigation — which he did.

<snip>

An AP investigation last year also found that the United Nations cut back sharply on investigations into corruption and fraud within its ranks, shelving cases involving the possible theft or misuse of millions of dollars, and that Dudley had a record of closing cases before investigations were complete and not actively pursuing initiatives begun by a special anti-corruption unit, the Procurement Task Force, which was terminated in 2009.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-01-19-united-nations-probe_N.htm

[shira]

132. Alleged Terror Activist Lands Human Rights Post

A Palestinian whom Israel’s Supreme Court has described as a “Jekyll and Hyde” of international terrorism has been appointed by Human Rights Watch (HRW) to its advisory board that oversees the sensitive reporting on Arab-Israeli affairs.

It’s a selection that has angered leading figures within HRW. Robert Bernstein, the founding chairman and now chairman emeritus, told The Daily Beast: “I am of course shocked but even more saddened that an organization dedicated to the rule of law seems to be deliberately undermining it.”

Stuart Robinowitz, a retired partner and of counsel to Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP who has led three human rights fact-finding missions for HRW and the American Bar Association, said he is distressed that the appointment seems to have been made without disclosure of all the facts by two HRW executives, Middle East and North African director for HRW, Sarah Leah Whiston, and the executive director, Ken Roth.

The man at the center of the dispute, Shawan Jabarin, runs the human rights organization Al Haq in Ramallah on the occupied West Bank. In 1985 he belonged to a Birzeit University student group associated with the PFLP, indicted as a terror group, by 30 countries including the U.S., the European Union, and Canada. He was convicted of recruiting members for terrorist training outside Israel and served nine months of a 24-month jail sentence.

(The PFLP became notorious in the sixties and seventies for aircraft hijackings. More recently, in 2001 it assassinated the Israeli Minister for Tourism Rehavam Zeevi and has carried out a series of suicide killings: three Israeli civilians died in a bomb of blast at pizzeria in Karnei Shomron, on the West Bank, four in a bombing of the bus station at Geha Junction in Petah Tikva, and three in a bombing in the Carmel Market in Tel Aviv).

more...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-02-15/shawan-jabarins-controversial-appointment-to-human-rights-watch-board/2/

[LeftishBrit]

135. There are campaigns about many of these countries

While Turkey is not perfect, it's hardly in the situation of the other countries mentioned (or Gaza). It's not a war zone, or under attack. (Though it is a country that conducts its own occupation, in part of Cyprus.)

As for the other countries:

Somalia is in a horrific situation. And there *are* campaigns about it:

www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/02/14/somalia-stop-war-crimes-mogadishu

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AFR52/012/2010/en/c667dc50-79ad-4c00-8fa2-68c4652e8f72/afr520122010en.html


On Sudan:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/thousands-gather-take-action-sudan-20100109

http://www.amnesty.org/en/africa/east-africa/sudan

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/02/03/sudan-violent-response-peaceful-protests

And here's a link to a great organization IMO that supports grassroots peacebuilding initiatives in Sudan and elsewhere.

http://www.peacedirect.org/peacebuilders/sudan/

There are many campaigns against oppression and government brutality in Iran:

http://www.iranhumanrights.org/

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/02/16/iran-nobel-laureate-shirin-ebadi-and-rights-groups-demand-moratorium-executions

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/iran

And Lebanon:

http://www.humanrights-lb.org/

http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/lebanon-human-rights-watch-launches-first-middle-east-committee-in-beirut/

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/lebanon


Of course, there *are* people who are totally exceptionalist in claiming that Israel is the worst human rights violator in the world, or a 'rogue state' compared with others, etc. But assuming that nobody is paying attention to human rights violations anywhere else is at best incorrect and misleading, and at worst could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[shira]

138. LB - those campaigns aren't even half as popular as the phony activism for Gaza.

They're practically insignificant.

Read post #136 below. Why isn't there world outrage now at the new blockade against Gaza, imposed this time by Hamas?

:shrug:

Just months ago, Israel's blockade was one of the greatest humanitarian causes of our time.

Why the silence now?

Come on.

[LeftishBrit]

141. They are NOT insignificant; that's the point

If they are getting less publicity than the activism about Gaza - then the answer is to publicize them more.

These campaigns are extremely important *in themselves*; and should not be dismissed *either* out of preoccupation with protesting against Israel's actions; *or* with condemning the protests against Israel's actions.

[shira]

146. They are. Where are the flotillas, numerous UN resolutions...?

There is no comparison to Israel/Gaza.

In fact, the most fierce critics of Israel refuse to be activists against Iran and Lebanon.

[LeftishBrit]

147. Then people should publicize these causes more, not dismiss them!

The UN is pretty useless at such things, and totally politicized - on that we can agree.

But many human rights organizations; many campaigns; many protests address these issues. And there should be more! I don't think that the main reason they don't get more is that the Israel situation competes for attention; I think it is that in most countries domestic issues and the economy compete for attention.

I do not like such grassroots peace organizations as Peace Direct dismissed as simply 'insignificant'. They do great work - Peace Direct also in the Congo and Sri Lanka - and need more active support, and not just assumed to be doing nothing, or not existing.

This is the I/P forum so that most things will get discussed with relation to Israel; BUT there are plenty of ways to address the issues if people wish to do so, and I have posted some links. Maybe there should be a human rights organizations forum on DU where all organizations and campaigns can be linked. I'm not sure how much good posting them on I/P does. But the point is: they *exist*; should not be ignored; and should be supported.

[shira]

153. But why aren't Israel's fiercest critics, who use human rights language to condemn Israel...

...more critical of Israel's mideast neighbors than they are of Israel? Or of America and Britain WRT civilians killed in war?

This would go for the UN and Human Rights NGO's as well as certain outspoken individuals.

Why?

[LeftishBrit]

159. Many of them (left-wing organizations at any rate) ARE more critical of America and Britain

The UN is a political organization, in which it tends to be a matter of either (1) being bigger than anyone else; or (2) winning a popularity contest - and Israel doesn't come into either category. The UN is better than having no international organization at all, and its existence may help to prevent a third world war, but it is not God oran impartial law court,

But at any rate: human rights causes in the Middle East and elsewhere, and anti-war causes, are too important to subordinate EITHER to a preoccupation with the failings of Israel OR to a preoccupation with the failings of the critics of Israel. We should be seeking to get as many people as possible to support these causes, and to unite rather than divide the support for these causes. If some people don't show an interest because they're only concerned about Israel, then this is indeed one-sided or hypocritical of them, but we should not let preoccupation with other people's hypocrisy get in the way of uniting round these important human rights causes.

[shira]

161. I'd say some are, but most are not.

Note how many "left wing" organizations criticize the UN for having extreme totalitarian rightwing regimes like Libya, Syria, or Saudi Arabia on the human rights council, setting human rights backwards...

Few and far between.

Why?

Most could care less about what goes on in the UNHRC, whether it's ignoring what happens in Syria or Sudan, or the aftermath of wars in Sri Lanka, Georgia, or Afghanistan.

The UN is broken and run by mostly 3rd world totalitarian regimes which need Israel as a scapegoat to deflect from their own crimes. Most of the left doesn't seem to have a problem with this. Remember, it's not very PC to criticize 3rd world regimes.

[shira]

136. Hamas tightens ban on Israeli imports

Israel's easing of restrictions on the transfer of goods to the Gaza Strip has caused a drop in demand for merchandise from tunnels.

Hamas has cracked down on merchants in the Gaza Strip, issuing new regulations that ban importing goods from Israel without prior permission from the Islamic group.

Hamas decided on the new policy this week after recording a drop in the demand for merchandise and supplies from the tunnels it controls along the Philadelphi Corridor between Gaza and Egypt.

Last June, Israel decided to ease the restrictions on the transfer of goods to the Gaza Strip in response to the international criticism it faced following the botched navy raid on the Mavi Marmara Turkish passenger ship.

<snip>

Another Hamas official was quoted in the Arab press as saying that the group preferred to do business with Arab countries such as Egypt, rather than Israel.

Israeli defense officials said Tuesday that the move was likely an indication of the financial distress Hamas was encountering following Israel’s decision last year to relax restrictions over the Gaza Strip.

“Hamas wants to retain its hold on the market,” one official explained.

According to information received by Israel, Palestinian merchants who break the Hamas ban on certain Israeli goods will face legal charges.

Hamas has also stopped the daily fuel supplies it used to receive from Israeli energy company Dor Alon. In the past, Dor Alon used to transfer about 1,000 liters a day to the Gaza Strip for the power station, but now Hamas prefers to receive its fuel from a contraband pipeline it has set up through a tunnel under the Egyptian-Gazan border.

Israeli officials said they were prepared to resume fuel supplies as per the request of the Palestinian Authority.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=208414

[shira]

137. Tunnels being used to smuggle goods out of Gaza

The tunnels under the Philadelphi Corridor between Gaza and Egypt, used in the past to smuggle arms and supplies from Sinai into Gaza, are now an important lifeline of supplies for Sinai residents facing acute shortages because of the turmoil in Egypt, the Lebanese daily Al-Akhbar reported Thursday.

According to the paper, which supports Hizbullah, traders in control of the tunnels have “been working for days” smuggling bread and food in the “opposite direction” – from Gaza into Egypt – because of “supply disruptions” from Cairo to Sinai.

The paper acknowledges something that Israel has been arguing for months – that “Gaza’s markets are no longer experiencing a shortage in most food” products since Israel eased the blockade of the region in June.

...


This is not the first time the tunnels have been used to smuggle goods into Egypt.

Western officials said in the fall that Israeli products, specifically fruits and vegetables, were making their way through the tunnels to Egyptian markets.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=206674

[LeftishBrit]

143. Interesting article relating to gay rights in the Middle East

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/02/09/william-hague-urged-to-raise-gay-rights-on-middle-east-trip/

Perhaps Fred Gottheil should be adding to pressure on William Hague - or Hillary Clinton - to raise such issues, rather than writing to one particular group of academics.

[LeftishBrit]

144. Support gay rights in the Middle East

http://www.iglhrc.org/cgi-bin/iowa/home/index.html (International; campaigns on the issues worldwide)

http://www.gaymiddleeast.com/pages/thevision.htm (Middle East; entire region)

Specific places:

http://iraqilgbt.org.uk/ (Iraq)

http://www.helem.net/ (Lebanon)

http://www.alqaws.org/q/content/who-are-we (Palestine)

http://www.aswatgroup.org/english/about.php?category=120 (Palestine)

http://iranhomounion.net/?cat=3 (Iran)

http://www.irqo.org/?lan=fa&page=posts&sub=specific&id=97 (Iran)

[LeftishBrit]

145. Support women's rights in the Middle East

(International organizations with strong Middle Eastern interests and representation):

http://www.awid.org

http://www.madre.org

http://www.globalfundforwomen.com

http://www.stophonourkillings.com

http://www.learningpartnership.org/blog/category/region/middle-east/

(Iran):

http://www.change4equality.net/english/

[shira]

155. Most of Israel's fiercest critics could care less about women and gay rights in the mideast...

...unless the violations are happening in Israel.

Why do you think that is?

Seems pretty clear to me that those critics who couldn't care less about women or gay rights in the mideast, or Arab treatment under brutal Arab regimes, care even LESS about the situation for Jews in the mideast.

Bigots or useful idiots at best!

[LeftishBrit]

173. We will not achieve greater rights for women and gays in the Middle East by focusing all our

attention on Israel, whether this is by only considering bad actions when they're done by Israel, or by only considering bad actions in/by Arab countries from the point of view of how criticisms of them compare with criticisms of Israel.

I am not sure that the I/P forum is the best forum for discussing human rights as a whole. In any case, I have linked to some good campaigns, and I hope that some people in the forum will look them up. The way to get more attention to them is to publicize them, not to just assume that they don't exist.

I do think that the Arab states, until very recently, have escaped criticism compared with both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Now, their actions to their own citizens have indeed been forced into the spotlight. I hope that significant changes will take place, without too much further bloodshed, and without ending as 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.

[shira]

175. Why did Arab states "until very recently" to use your words, escape criticism compared to Israel?

How could that happen if human rights are universal?

[LeftishBrit]

181. They were criticized by human rights organizations, but not so much by the media and governments

My cynical reason as to how this could happen: most of them have oil!

This means either they got away with a great deal (e.g. Saudi Arabia) or they were invaded (Iraq).

Long-term ties with other governments may help.

Human rights are universal as a concept; this does not mean that all countries are in fact treated equally and justly. If they were, then how could so many countries be so desperately poor?

[shira]

184. HR organizations criticize Sudan, Egypt and Syria but not as much as Israel, why?

It's not just the media and governments.

If it's oil, let's agree that the Oil Lobby is far more effective than the Israel Lobby - even WRT their influence on human rights organizations who disproportionately focus more on Israel than they do on the planet's absolute worst violators.

Here's an article from a well known human rights advocate I personally know in the Boston area...
http://www.iabolish.org/images/stories/why_israel_and_not_sudan_is_singled_out.pdf

It's not the media and governments but also human rights organizations.

[shira]

151. How the Hard Left, By Focusing Only on Israel, Encouraged Arab Despotism

Now the hard left is finally talking about torture and other undemocratic abuses in Egypt and Jordan, as well as the despotism of virtually all Arab regimes. Do you recall any campus protests against Egypt or Mubarak? Do you recall any calls for divestment and boycotts against Arab dictators? No, because there weren't any. The hard left was too busy condemning the Middle East's only democracy, Israel. Radical leftists and campus demonstrators, by giving a pass to the worst forms of tyranny, encouraged their perpetuation. Now, finally, they are jumping on the bandwagon of condemnation, though still not with the fury that they reserve for the one nation in the Middle East that has complete free speech, gender equality, gay rights, an open and critical press, an independent judiciary and fair and open elections.

The double standard is alive and well on the hard left, and its victims include the citizens of Arab regimes who suffer under the heal of authoritarian dictators. Even more important they include victims of genocides, such as those perpetrated in Rwanda, Darfur and Cambodia—victims who did not prick the consciences of the hard left because the perpetrators were Arabs or Communists, rather than Americans or Israelis.

The same must be said for the United Nations, which rewarded Arab despots by according them places of honor on human rights bodies that devoted all of their energies to demonizing Israel. In a recent op ed, Amnon Rubenstein, the conscious of Israel, has pointed out that the UN Human Rights Commission, to which both Egypt and Tunisia were elected, has gone out of its way to compliment both regimes. Egypt was praised for steps it has "taken in recent years as regard to human rights…." Tunisia was lauded for constructing "a legal and constitutional framework for the promotion and protection of human rights." Israel, on the other hand, was repeatedly condemned for violating the human rights not only of Palestinians, but of its own citizens as well.

Nor do I recall Bishop Tutu urging the Cape Town Opera to boycott Egypt, Tunisia or Jordan as he urged them to boycott Israel. I do recall Jimmy Carter, who has falsely accused Israel of Apartheid, embracing some of the Arab's worlds worst tyrants and murderers. Many who claim the mantle of human rights ignore or even embrace the worst human rights violators and direct their wrath only against the Jewish nation.

more...
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1860/hard-left-arab-despotism

[shira]

152. Where's the Goldstone report into Sri Lanka, Congo, Darfur – or Britain?

<snip>

Yet it is not the suffering of these hundreds of millions of Arabs which has attracted the sympathy of the UN Human Rights Council. Nor has it stirred the compassion of left-leaning liberal types who pride themselves on thei r care for the oppressed. Few places get them excited the way Israel does.

So in 2009 Sri Lanka could kill between 7,000 and 20,000 civilians, displacing 300,000 more in its bombardment of the Tamils at about the same time as the Gaza conflict – but you will search in vain for the Goldstone report into Sri Lankan war crimes. Nor will you find Caryl Churchill writing a play called Seven Sri Lankan Children – asking what exactly is it in the Sri Lankan mentality that allows them to be so brutal.

There is no Goldstone or Churchill to probe the 4 million deaths in the Congo, the slaughtered in Darfur or the murdered in the Ivory Coast, let alone the civilian deaths inflicted by the US and Britain in Iraq and Afghanistan. No one is proposing an academic boycott of those nations or any of the other serial violators of human rights. Tellingly, two members of the four-person board of the LSE's Middle East Centre are firm advocates of cutting all scholarly ties to Israel – but were only too happy for the college to receive £1.5m from the Gaddafi family.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/06/goldstone-report-israel-palestine

[shira]

156. Red Cross: There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=217460

[shira]

157. Photos of the "humanitarian crisis" in Gaza from Nov 2009...

http://paltoday.ps/arabic/News-64161.html

[shira]

162. GISHA representative states there never was a hunger crisis in Gaza

According to Yoni Eshpar of Gisha, the Israeli legal centre for freedom of movement, such black-and-white characterisations ‘cripple the discussion of Gaza and prevent a well-informed debate on Israeli policy towards it’. Gisha offers legal assistance to Palestinians and works to protect the free movement of goods and people, especially in and out of Gaza. It’s an ambitious mission to say the least.

Eshpar told spiked that Gisha wants to shift the focus away from both the ‘binary images’ of Gaza, emphasising that the obstacles that its residents face are neither primarily terrorist nor humanitarian in character. Esphar insists that the Gaza Strip is not a humanitarian crisis zone. ‘There is no, and was never, any hunger crisis in Gaza. There is food on the shelves.’ The problem, he says, is that since Israel’s disengagement from Gaza in 2005 and the blockade imposed following Hamas’ rise to power, there has been ‘a complete devastation of the local economy. Gazans lack purchasing power, they lack job opportunities, and around 80 per cent of the population is dependent on aid.’
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10484/

[shira]

163. Hamas senior official at ministry of justice says "No starvation in Gaza" (June 2010)

"There is no starvation in Gaza," said Khalil Hamada, a senior official at Hamas's ministry of justice. "No-one has died of hunger.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7806209/Dispatch-Just-how-hungry-is-Gaza.html

[shira]

164. Danish Report: No Food Crisis in Gaza (June 2010)

Yesterday I drove into the Gaza Strip. I don't do this as often as before because it takes much longer to get through the checkpoints now.

This time, I had expected to see real suffering, because with all the fuss in recent days about bringing tons of humanitarian relief in - so much that people actually sacrificed their lives for it - there certainly had to really be a deep, desperate situation in the Gaza Strip. No food. Long queues in front of UN food stocks. Hungry children with food bowls.

But this was not the picture that greeted me.

When I yesterday morning drove through Gaza City, I was immediately surprised that there are almost as many traffic jams as there always has been. Is there not a shortage of fuel? Apparently not. Gasoline is not even rationed.

Many shops were closed yesterday, Hamas has declared a general strike in protest against Israel's brutal and deadly attack on the Turkish flotilla with pro-Palestinian activists on board. So it was difficult to estimate how many products were on the shelves. Therefore I went over to the Shati refugee camp, also known as Beach Camp. Here is one of Gaza's many vegetable markets that sell much more than just fruits and vegetables.

I will not say whether, in better times has been a larger product range than there was yesterday. But there was certainly no shortage of vegetables, fruits or any other ordinary, basic foods. Tomatoes, cucumbers, corn, watermelons, potatoes - mountains of these items in the many stalls.

I must admit I was a little surprised. Because when I call down here to my Palestinian friends, they tell me about all the problems and deficiencies, so I expected that the crisis was a little more clear.
And the first woman we interviewed in the market confirms this strange, contradictory, negative mindset:

"We have nothing," she said. We need everything! Food, drinks ... everything! "

It disturbed her not at least that she stood between the mountains of vegetables, fruit, eggs, poultry and fish, while she spun this doomsday scenario.
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2010/06/dutch_report_no_food_crisis_in.html

[shira]

166. Barenboim no man of peace

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=350697&mesg_id=351282

[shira]

167. Aircraft carrier left us to die, say migrants

Dozens of African migrants were left to die in the Mediterranean after a number of European military units apparently ignored their cries for help, the Guardian has learned. Two of the nine survivors claim this included a Nato ship.

A boat carrying 72 passengers, including several women, young children and political refugees, ran into trouble in late March after leaving Tripoli for the Italian island of Lampedusa. Despite alarms being raised with the Italian coastguard and the boat making contact with a military helicopter and a warship, no rescue effort was attempted.

All but 11 of those on board died from thirst and hunger after their vessel was left to drift in open waters for 16 days. "Every morning we would wake up and find more bodies, which we would leave for 24 hours and then throw overboard," said Abu Kurke, one of only nine survivors. "By the final days, we didn't know ourselves … everyone was either praying, or dying."

International maritime law compels all vessels, including military units, to answer distress calls from nearby boats and to offer help where possible. Refugee rights campaigners have demanded an investigation into the deaths, while the UNHCR, the UN's refugee agency, has called for stricter co-operation among commercial and military vessels in the Mediterranean in an effort to save human lives.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/08/nato-ship-libyan-migrants

[oberliner]

168. What is the connection between this and the OP?

Can you elaborate?

[JonScholar]

170. I assume the logic is that we're hypocrites for not spending all of our time criticizing Europe...

Instead of Israel. It's sort of similar to how shira accuses his opponents of being Hamas supporters because (according to him) they haven't explicitly condemned Hamas a satisfactory amount of times.

Just a guess

[shira]

171. Compare outrage to this incident vs. the flotilla. Why the silence WRT this incident?

Because it's a "humanitarian show", duh.

Sanctimonious bigots care little for Africans or Palestinians but they certainly do hate those...ummm....."Zionists".

[tootrueleft]

177. Do you consider people here commenting on the treatment of palestinians by "zionists"

to be sanctimonious bigots too?

[shira]

179. Do you believe there are such people who can rightfully be labeled "sanctimonious bigots"...

...WRT human rights? Do they exist and, if so, who are some of these people, organizations, governments?

[tootrueleft]

180. Answering a question with a question. Flipping it around. Theme of the thread really. Buy a mirror.

[shira]

169. Why Your Streets Are Full of Foreigners

Ala’adin from Al-Bireh used to greet new foreign arrivals to Palestine with a cheerful, “So you’re here to save my country too?” He was fond of mocking good intentions.

Still it’s fair to say that most international visitors to Palestine, particularly those in relief or activism campaigns, do so at least partly out of conscience. In Britain, and I daresay most of Europe, Palestinian liberation is widely seen as a “good” cause. While many Palestinians feel abandoned by the international community, surely Egypt has taught us not to confuse a nation’s rulers with its population.

In London, where I grew up, this conflict was a “red-line” topic. If you took the wrong position on Palestine-Israel, it was as bad as supporting the death penalty, or liking Margaret Thatcher, and you would be considered the devil incarnate. As I overheard at a Kensington dinner party: “You cannot be a good person if you think the Occupation is okay.”

<snip>

While the vast majority of ex-pats living here genuinely believe in the cause of liberation, it is far from the only reason for our mass invasion. Since the International Solidarity Movement was established in 2001, over 200 NGOs have sprung up in the West Bank and Gaza. Their presence is proof of how favourable Palestinian conditions have become.

“Palestine is the best-kept secret in the aid industry,” I am told by Emily Williams, an American project manager at a medical NGO. “People need field experience and Palestine sounds cool and dangerous because it can be described as a war zone, but in reality it’s quite safe and has all the comforts that internationals want. Quality of life here is so much higher than somewhere like Afghanistan, but we don’t tell anyone so that we are not replaced or reassigned.”

That quality of life is becoming rapidly more apparent in the “A” areas. In cities like Ramallah and Nablus, expensive restaurants and high-powered financial institutions are common now. Nightlife and entertainment is expanding to cater for international tastes.

At times these tastes sit uneasily with local values. More than once I’ve heard the fear voiced that our influence will damage the traditions of Palestinian society. Most internationals at least attempt to be culturally sensitive, but our differences can be striking. I can only imagine how West Bankers feel to see us breezing over to Jerusalem or even Tel Aviv, but these trips have an allure to visitors from the West, who can be somewhere more like home just half an hour away. In my experience, these guilty pleasures are also popular among young Palestinians with the necessary ID.

http://thisweekinpalestine.com/details.php?id=3385&ed=193&edid=193

[shira]

188. Free Gaza Movement: Against Humanitarian aid for Palestinians. For a 3rd Intifada

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=334635&mesg_id=334751

[shira]

189. Recent Gaza photos (very graphic - not for the faint of heart)

http://www.nakheel-v.ps/2011/#

Think the flotillistas will drop in for a visit to these places?

:eyes:

[shira]

190. Amnesty International losing its way

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x355521

[shira]

191. While massacre continues in Syria, UN still pathologically obsessed with Israel

Mr. President,

History will record that the highest human rights body of the United Nations met today for no objective reason. Nothing in recent events, nothing in logic, nothing in human rights justifies today’s debate.

Our meeting is automatic—the consequence of a decision adopted four years ago, shortly after this council was created, to keep a permanent agenda item on one country only: Israel.

History will record that at a time when citizens across the Middle East were being attacked by their own government—by rifles, tanks, and helicopters—the UN focused its scarce time and attention on a country in that region where this is not happening; the only country in the region which, despite its flaws, respects the right to peaceful assembly, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of religion; the only country in the region with free elections, an independent judiciary, and the equal treatment of women; the only country where gays are not persecuted, arrested or stoned to death, but, on the contrary, march in their own annual parade, as they did in Tel Aviv three days ago.

Mr. President, that is why the logic of this agenda item represents the opposite of human rights, and why it embodies the pathologies that so discredited this council’s predecessor.

Indeed, this item is so unjust, so biased, so selective, so politicized, and so contradictory to this council’s own principles of equality and universality, that it was condemned by the Secretary-General himself, Mr. Ban Ki-moon, on 20 June 2007, the day after its adoption.

And so we ask: In its recent 5-year review, despite everything happening in the Middle East, why did the Council decide to perpetuate this item, an act that will be finalized this week by the General Assembly?

Mr. President,

History will record that when citizens were being persecuted or massacred by their own governments—in Syria, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Bahrain and elsewhere—the UN chose to turn a blind eye to the victims, and instead endorsed the cynicism, hypocrisy and scapegoating of the perpetrators.

Thank you, Mr. President.

http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1313923&ct=10877547&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[shira]

192. The (UNHRC) anti-Israel agenda prevails

The council was the “reformed” version of the UN Human Rights Commission, which once flaunted a Libyan chair. The Bush administration and its UN ambassador John Bolton opposed this 2006 “reform” on the grounds that the changes were superficial and there were no membership criteria for election to what was, after all, the UN’s top human rights body. The European Union, however, was bought off by including a five-year review plan. That review ended Friday with the adoption of a GA resolution that kicked any further reconsideration down the road “10-15 years.”

From the day it began, the council has proved to be even worse than its predecessor. Sitting in judgment on human rights violations worldwide are such luminaries as China, Cuba and Saudi Arabia. Member Libya had no difficulty being elected, and its suspension didn’t occur until March of this year, when the numbers of dead finally proved too embarrassing. But throwing women in jail for driving, outlawing freedom of religion, rendering homosexuality a capital offense and periodically cutting off heads haven’t made a dent in Saudi membership.

<snip>

Rather than discredit a body that calls itself a human rights authority but reeks of discrimination, and is tasked with promoting tolerance but provides a global platform for hate-mongering, Obama decided to give it American credibility and taxpayer dollars. His No. 1 excuse was the promise to reform it from the inside.

Here’s Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and UN Ambassador Susan Rice on March 31, 2009, explaining the reason to join: “The Council... is scheduled to undergo a formal review of its structure and procedures in 2011, which will offer a significant opportunity for Council reform.”

US Ambassador to the Council Eileen Donahoe, in a September 13, 2010, New York Times editorial, called the review “a serious self-reflection exercise” and claimed that “if we do not sit at the table with others and do the work necessary to influence the process, US values and priorities will not be reflected in the outcome.”

Even as late as March 25 of this year, a poker-faced administration spokesperson said: “The United States... looks forward to working with UN member states as the HRC review process continues in New York. There is still room to... ensure greater scrutiny of the human rights records of candidates for election to this body.”

ON FRIDAY, those promises were shown to be utterly fraudulent. Every major recommendation that American negotiators made over a process spanning many months, including instituting membership criteria and changing the discriminatory anti-Israel agenda, was rejected. Only four states voted in the GA against the outcome of the non-reform reform: Israel, the United States, Canada and Palau.

<snip>

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=225779

[shira]

193. US Boat to Gaza proudly presents antisemite Gilad Atzmon at fundraising party

http://ustogaza.org/events/u-s-boat-to-gaza-west-presents-gilad-atzmon/

[shira]

194. Free Gaza Movement founder with Gaza's Hamas leader, Ismael Haniyeh

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_tX4p0XvX_9M/TBJx9gNGvYI/AAAAAAAAAA0/xTianz0D8tA/s1600/LaRudee+and+Haniyeh.jpg

[shira]

195. Viva Palestina's George Galloway - proud supporter of Hamas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmhrWoSTpys

That pretty much proves Galloway's argument for one secular democratic binational state is complete bullshit.

:eyes:

[shira]

196. Norman Finkelstein on tape admitting Hezbollah has right to terrorize/bomb Israeli civilians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qC9Guz0MrU

[shira]

224. (Video) Norman Finkelstein goads Lebanese into voting for Hezbollah, more war...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDe65-nF3FQ

Must watch all 10 minutes to believe it....

[tootrueleft]

197. LOL! Such maturity.

Kinda like an overweight kid stuffing her mouth full of candies all at once cos somebody warns her about diabetes.

[shira]

198. These depraved monsters posing as peace activists need to be exposed, not honored. n/t

[tootrueleft]

199. Its all you've got isn't it? Name calling and spoonfed links from biased sources.

Whens the last time you discussed the issues? Or is your default position so indefensible that there's no point you even trying??

[shira]

201. So it's just BS about Atzmon and the US Boat to Gaza? Finkelstein and Galloway caught on tape?

Hamas funding of the flotilla?

:shrug:

You'd rather offer up some opinions rather than face those facts?

[shira]

204. I thought you wanted to discuss the issues. So let's start with...

...why you think people need to pretend there's an ongoing humanitarian crisis in Gaza?

[shira]

200. Blast from the past: Those claiming no humanitarian crisis in Gaza

Mary Robinson (October 2010)
“I was last here in 2008, just before the Gaza war. The situation has deteriorated to a shocking extent since then. This is not a humanitarian crisis – it is a political crisis and it can be solved politically."
http://www.theelders.org/media/mediareleases/elders-visit-gaza-call-lifting-blockade

Time Mag (Aug 2010)
Gaza's residents will concede that there is no hunger crisis in the Strip. Residents do love the beach, and the store shelves are stocked. But if you're focused on starvation, they say, you're probably missing the point. To them, the word prison speaks more to the effect that years of conflict and political and economic isolation have had on the Gaza psyche. "We are talking about continuous stress and ongoing trauma," says Hasan Zeyada, a psychologist at the Gaza Community Mental Health Program (GCMHP), the territory's main psychological treatment and research NGO. "It's not one incident, but all of the time. We are at a continuous level of high stress and human-rights violations and traumas through Israeli invasions and war."
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2010064,00.html

Slate: Gaza is not Darfur! (Aug 2010)
http://www.slate.com/id/2262805

NYT (Aug 2010)
"But the broader point many of these advocates are making — that the poverty of Gaza is often misconstrued, willfully or inadvertently — is correct. The despair here is not that of Haiti or Somalia. It is a misery of dependence, immobility and hopelessness, not of grinding want. The flotilla movement is not about material aid; it is about Palestinian freedom and defiance of Israeli power."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/world/middleeast/23gaza.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss

NYT (July 2010)
I’m sure some readers will dispute my suggestion that life in Gaza is better than it was a couple of years ago, and that there isn’t a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza. But there seems to me to be no doubt about that.
http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/your-comments-on-my-gaza-column-2/

Gershon Baskin (July 2010)
Israel does allow “humanitarian goods” into Gaza via various crossings. There is no hunger there; Israel is very careful about not creating a humanitarian crisis.
http://gershonbaskinenglish.gershonbaskin.org/issues/israel’s-gaza-policy-has-strengthened-hamas/

Khaled Abdel Shaafi, director the United Nations Development Program (March 2009)
"This is not a humanitarian crisis," he said. "It's an economic crisis, a political crisis, but it's not a humanitarian crisis. People aren't starving."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/article727614.ece

[tootrueleft]

202. Wonder how long a thread about a 'humanitarian show' in new orleans following Katrina would last.

Pretty amazing that liberals can come to this board and see whats permitted towards muslims.

[shira]

203. Mondoweiss June 29, 2011, claims Humanitarian Crisis ongoing in Gaza...

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/06/the-no-humanitarian-crisis-in-gaza-canard-from-massacre-myopia-to-blockade-blindness.html

[Shaktimaan]

205. ith all due respect...

I think the I/P conflict is slightly more complex than the situation involving Katrina. Otherwise you wouldn't see so many people who hold liberal, progressive views defending Zionism. It's because Zionism (and by extension Israel), isn't "indefensible."

You can sit there and assume that people who support Zionism are merely racist or uninformed or whatever, but the facts don't support that viewpoint. The views of many on this board may differ from your own, but rest assured that it is not due to bigotry against Muslims. I would wager that I've spent more time with Muslims (and with Arabs), than you have (maybe not, but I think probably.) Few people I know who have spent a decent amount of time learning about this conflict, or in Israel and Muslim areas of the world hold a strictly polarized viewpoint on the conflict.

Your statements betray your inexperience. Although you seem to assume it, if you think any of this is about bias against Muslims then you are very sadly mistaken.

[tootrueleft]

206. Nor is people round here's opposition to israeli criminality bourne from anti-semitism

Its bourne from the continued injustice served on the palestinian people, especially the people of gaza.

Oh, and discrimination based on religion is an ugly thing, no matter the religion.

[shira]

207. Is George Galloway's opposition to Israel based on hate? Gilad Atzmon? n/t

[tootrueleft]

209. No. I've witnesed him defend the righs of jewish communities. Funny sort of anti-semite, yes?

[King_David]

210. LOL

That is funny.


:eyes:

[shira]

211. The video in #195 proves Galloway supports Hamas. You don't see that as antisemitic...

....warmongering, rightwing, etc.?

David Duke is a fan of the anti-zionist orthodox Jewish Neturei Karta Rabbis. So he's not antisemitic?

[shira]

208. (Video) ISM leader explains flotilla's real ANTI-humanitarian agenda, to destroy Israel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okx5NwxAXVI&feature=player_embedded#at=145

[shira]

212. (Real Humanitarians) Civil Admin, Hadassah Hospital Coordinate Trip for Palestinian Children to Zoo

http://idfspokesperson.com/2011/07/11/civil-administration-hadassah-hospital-coordinate-trip-for-palestinian-children-to-the-zoo/

Last month, a group of Palestinian children from the West Bank along with their parents traveled to the Jerusalem Zoo for a day. Their trip was organized by the Civil Administration and Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem. Many of the children had previously underwent open heart surgery at Hadassah, a procedure which was paid for by the hospital itself and the A Heart for Peace organization. The trip was designed to provide relaxation, learning, enjoyment and a positive experience for the children who cope with health difficulties.

Ms. Dalia Bassa, the Health and Welfare Coordinator for the Civil Administration, played an instrumental role coordinating the children’s treatment at Hadassah and during their leisure trip to Jerusalem on June 16th.

The Civil Administration, a unit under the IDF and the Israeli Ministry of Defense, is responsible for administering and coordinating civilian needs in the West Bank, and is comprised of various staff offices working alongside the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian population, IDF and Israeli authorities, as well as with international organizations and NGOs to fulfill these needs.

[AverageJoe90]

214. Just goes to show you there certainly ARE good Israelis out there. =)

[Ken Burch]

218. Nobody said there weren't.

The issue is the policies of the government, not the Israeli people...so can the false accusations of demonization finally be put to rest?

[Shaktimaan]

219. oh please

You are constantly accusing anyone here who disagrees with your narrative of believing that the Palestinians are subhuman.

I think you did it in this very thread.

[Ken Burch]

220. I don't have a particular narrative.

I want peace between Israelis and Palestinians. That can only come if both sides recognize each other's common humanity and if all forms of oppression end in this dispute. The Israeli side needs to take the lead on that, because it has most of the power in this dispute and Palestinians are essentially living at the mercy of the Israeli government in a way that Israelis have never had to live at the mercy of any Palestinians.

And much as I dislike Hamas, I also reject the absurd the notion that Hamas exists simply because some people in Palestine decided to be evil for evil's sake. Hamas has the influence it has because the Israelis kept treating Fatah as a junior, rather than an equal partner in what were supposed to be peace negotiations and treated Palestinian self-determination as a privilege to be earned rather than a natural right. The Israeli governments of the Nineties repeatedly humiliated the Fatah leadership, badly weakening it when it needed to be bolstered. The present misery is the result of that. Hamas in power in Gaza is the result of that. All I'm saying is that the Israelis should accept this and change at least some of what they are doing. Why is this asking too much?

The side with the most power must be held to high standards first. Palestinians can't be expected to change before the Israeli government does.

[shira]

221. Translated: You have high standards for Israel and no standards for Hamas and Fatah.

Ken, it's racist to posit Palestinians can do nothing and that nothing can be expected of them.

You're treating them as though they're subhuman or retarded.

[Ken Burch]

222. I didn't say nothing can be expected.

Just that the side with most of the power can't keep screaming demands at the side with less.

[shira]

213. (Real Humanitarians) Palest'n Children Diagnosed w/Cancer Visit Mt. Hermon w/Alpine Unit Reservists

http://idfspokesperson.com/2011/03/25/palestinian-kids-diagnosed-with-cancer-visit-mt-hermon-with-alpine-unit-reservists/

Last week, Palestinian children diagnosed with cancer visited Israel’s only ski resort located in Mt. Hermon, northern Israel. The children, accompanied by their families, enjoyed the snow and slopes along with IDF reservists from the Alpine Unit.

more with pictures....

[shira]

215. Audacity of Hate: (Ray Hanania)

<snip>

But relieving the suffering of the Palestinians in Gaza is not really the goal of the activist leaders. In covering the stand-off, Reuters reports: “In an effort to calm the activists, Greece offered to ferry the aid to Gaza in cooperation with the United Nations. The activists turned the offer down, saying this was ‘insufficient,’ as their mission was also about the rights of the Palestinian people and not just about aid.”

Greek Foreign Minister Stavros Lambrinides responded, “It is an offer that is always on the table, and is still on the table.”

Many Palestinians genuinely believe the lies of the flotilla leaders, that they seek to break the Israeli siege. The only thing they have broken is peace. Only achieving peace will end the suffering.

The purpose of the flotillas is to express their own selfish hatred of Israel.

Even if Israel didn’t pressure the Greek government and the ships got through, that would not be enough for the leaders who have misled the Palestinian people for years. They want confrontation with Israel.

They thrive on the ‘oppression.’ If Palestinians are not suffering, they can’t make their phony arguments to make Israel look bad. Israel’s extremist government is clearly willing to play along.

Like the Israeli government, these activists oppose the peace process and the creation of two states. They reject the secular government in Palestine, and have fought against it politically. They support Hamas, which has vowed to destroy the Jewish state.

THIS STAND-OFF isn’t about peace. It’s not about security. It’s not about easing suffering. This is about selfish, extremist politics, Israeli and Palestinian.

The activists are hoping to create more martyrs to stoke the flames of hate against Israel and incite the Palestinians who are increasingly fatigued by the failed peace.

<snip>

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=229061

[shira]

216. Hanania also blasted Flotilla 1 just hours after the Marmara incident...

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=177176

Both sides are at fault in this confrontation. The activists are against peace, and want Israel to turn the clock back to 1948, while Israel wants to pretend the Palestinians don’t exist.

<snip>

When Palestinians and Israelis were negotiating, they were opposing the Oslo Accords, doing everything they could to stop them. And they stood by while Hamas, a terrorist organization which is also partly to blame for the suffering of the citizens of the Gaza Strip, used suicide bombings and brainwashed teenagers to kill themselves and to take innocent Israeli civilians with them.

<snip>

The activists who openly denounce Israeli military excesses are silent when it comes to Hamas excesses.

[shira]

217. Photos of brand new Andalusseya Gaza Mall

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.221744801195377.48049.184016071634917

[shira]

223. HRW’s ‘Arab spring’

HRW’s ‘Arab spring’
By GERALD M. STEINBERG AND NAFTALI A. BALANSON
08/03/2011 22:20

As Syrian citizens are murdered by Assad forces, HRW has no infrastructure in place to aid them in leading the “human-rights” revolution.

Talkbacks (7)
On May 20, two months after Syrian President Bashar al-Assad began slaughtering protesters in his country, Human Rights Watch (HRW) hired a Jordanian journalist, Hani Hazaimeh, to interview victims of and witnesses to Assad’s atrocities. At first glance, this would appear to be an unremarkable example of an NGO doing its job. Although Hazaimeh had no experience in human rights investigations, HRW believed he was its best option to record Syrian abuses.

However, this predicament of having no trained professionals to turn to in the field raises an important question: How is it that two months after citizen-protesters were being murdered – not to mention decades of severe repression of the worst kind – “one of the world’s leading independent organizations” did not have assets in place for proper investigations? Despite nearly 50 years of police-state repression and emergency law, HRW had to resort to a last minute, inexperienced outsider to record human rights brutalities.

And Syria is not an isolated incident. Since the Arab Spring awoke at the end of 2010, HRW has quickly expanded to cover developments and violations in Egypt, Libya, and elsewhere. HRW’s lack of preparation, foresight, and capacity is obvious. Indeed, the international media have relied entirely on local activists; as a source of information, HRW is entirely irrelevant. As HRW’s Fred Abraham stated, “The west of Libya is a black hole....we have no idea what’s going on.”

In Syria, HRW’s inadequacy is not new. Last July, HRW published a report titled “A Wasted Decade,” covering ten years of research on human rights violations in Syria in just 35 pages. The thinness of the report was matched by the weak recommendations.

The report recommended a limited response, directed exclusively to President Assad, who was urged to enact, amend, introduce, and remove a variety of laws, and to set up commissions. To alleviate restrictions on freedom of expression, HRW urged him to “stop blocking websites for their content.” In a contemporaneous op-ed article, "Syria's decade of repression” (The Guardian, 16 July 2010), HRW researcher Nadim Houry concludes with gentle prodding of Assad: “his legacy will ultimately depend on whether he will act on the promises” of reform he made upon taking office. “Otherwise, he will merely be remembered for extending his father’s...government by repression.”

In other words, HRW was content as a spectator throughout much of Assad’s brutal reign. Now, as Syrian citizens are murdered by his forces, HRW has no infrastructure or networks in place to aid citizens leading the “human rights” revolution.

But, if HRW did not invest in developing its capabilities in the closed and repressive society of Syria, what were HRW’s priorities?

As dictated by the ideological agenda of the organization’s Middle East and North Africa (MENA) division, the priority was Israel. For example, while HRW released 51 documents in 2010 on “Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories,” it released 12 for Syria. Israel also had three “single country reports,” compared to the very short one for Syria.

more...
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=232340

[shira]

225. 'No humanitarian aid found onboard Gaza flotilla'

'No humanitarian aid found onboard Gaza flotilla'

Navy forces tow Irish-Canadian flotilla ships to Ashdod Port after successful take over, say no weapons or humanitarian aid found. Immigration Authority holds hearing for 4 out of 27 Pro-Palestinian activists to be deported out of Israel



The two vessels attempting to break the blockade of the Gaza Strip reached the Ashdod Port, after Navy forces intercepted the ships and towed them to Israel. The Immigration Authority has taken four out of the 27 flotilla activists to a hearing prior to their deportation from Israel.

Onboard one of the ships were 12 passengers and another 15 activists on another, including one Israeli citizen. All 27 pro-Palestinian activists were trasferred over to the police and Immigration Authority and expected to be deported from the country.

more...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4143893,00.html

[shira]

226. Behind the Humanitarian Mask: The Nordic Countries, Israel and the Jews

In the past decades many pioneering efforts to demonize Israel have come from elites of the Nordic countries. The motifs of this anti-Israelism are similar to those of classic anti-Semitism of which it is a new mutation. Such highly discriminatory prejudices are in particular expressed in Norway and Sweden by leading socialist and extreme-leftist politicians as well as journalists, clergy, and so-called humanitarians.

Behind the Nordic countries’ appearance and oft-proclaimed concern for human rights lurk darker attitudes. This book deals mainly with lifting the humanitarian mask as far as Israel and Jews are concerned. This disguise hides many ugly characteristics such as false morality, a pretense of superiority, as well as profound humanitarian racism.

The best-known Swedish statesman of the postwar period, Olof Palme was one of Europe’s first prominent Holocaust inverters. He was at the origin of the permeation of anti-Israelism in segments of the Social Democrats, Sweden’s classic government party.

In recent years major anti-Semitic incidents have taken place in Norway even though there are very few Jews there. The country is a European leader of anti-Semitic cartoons, sometimes similar to Nazi ones. Norway is one of the very few countries that forbids Jewish ritual slaughter. At the same time, it is one of only three countries in the world that permit the cruel killing of whales.

In this book, thirteen essays and interviews discuss various aspects of the attitudes of Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Iceland toward Israel and the Jews.

http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/showpage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=103&FID=448&PID=0&IID=2588

http://www.amazon.com/Behind-Humanitarian-Mask-Nordic-Countries/dp/9652180661

5.0 out of 5 stars A wake- up call to the Nordic countries, September 9, 2008
By Shalom Freedman "Shalom Freedman" (Jerusalem,Israel) - See all my reviews
(TOP 50 REVIEWER)

This review is from: Behind the Humanitarian Mask: The Nordic Countries, Israel and the Jews (Paperback)
I found this book fascinating reading. I had always assumed,as I suspect many others do, that the The Nordic countries, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, and Iceland are the most enlightened and humane of societies. This book, a collection of essays and interviews edited and introduced by Manfred Gerstenfeld, sees behind this `humanitarian mask'. The picture is not pretty.

Sweden and Norway especially are revealed as countries whose governments have been hypocritical to the first degree. While pretending to be champions of `human rights' they have tolerated and even abetted the development of Anti- Semitism in their own societies. They have not been honest in relation to their own Nazi- connected histories. They have funded Palestinian organizations directly involved in Terror. They have taken repeatedly one - sided actions against Israel, and used whatever influence they have had in international forums to demonize the Jewish state.

In one of the most damning essays in the book Efraim Zuroff makes a close study of Sweden's failure to prosecute Nazi war- criminals. While it has proclaimed aloud its opposition to racism, and its condemnation of the Holocaust it has at the same time allowed Nazi- war- criminals to take refuge in the society. It has prosecuted not a single one.

Former Israeli Ambassador to Sweden, Zvi Mazel in an interview with Gerstenfeld points out the varied sources of Anti- Semitism in Swedish society. It is not only the government but the traditional Swedish Lutheran church which has played a despicable role here. And this when it is perhaps above all the long- ruling ( 1932-2006) Left- wing Social- Democrat party who historically have pushed Sweden into being one of the most anti- Israeli countries in Europe.

In another essay on Swedish Anti- Semitism Mikael Tossavainen provides a portrait of the Arab and Muslim Anti- Semitism which has taken root in Sweden. This form of Anti- Semitism also has its place as Arthur Arnheim points out in present day Denmark. Gerald Steinberg in essays on the Swedish and Finnish funding of NGO campaigns of anti- Israel campaigns, shows how government money intended to combat Racism is used to foment it.

Erez Uriely in his essay graphically documents how Norwegian newspaper caricatures have promoted Jew-hatred in the society. Odd Svere Hove shows how Norways `cut and omit TV News' fudges over completely Palestinian Arab terror and always finds Israel the culprit in any confrontation. Vilhjalmur Orn Vilhjalmsson and Bent Blunikov speak about Denmark's difficulties with its World War II Past, which beside the heroic rescue story has largely unknown problematic elements.Sarah Beizer speaks about Finland's tarnished Holocaust record. Vilhjalmur Orn Vilhjalmsson provides a concluding essays which considers Iceland, the Jews and Anti- Semitism
1625-2004.
I was often outraged and angered reading this chronicle of hypocrisy, self- servingness and yes,Evil. But I was also encouraged at the thought that it is exposing the truth, letting the world know of a reality which had been carefully obscured and hidden.

I believe it a book all truly enlightened and humane citizens of these Nordic countries would do well to read.


5.0 out of 5 stars Behind the mask, a grinning skull, December 20, 2008
By Pieter "Toypom" (Johannesburg) - See all my reviews
(TOP 50 REVIEWER)

This review is from: Behind the Humanitarian Mask: The Nordic Countries, Israel and the Jews (Paperback)
This disturbing book exposes the levels of antisemitism in the Nordic countries Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway & Sweden through a collection of interviews & essays, mostly by Israeli & Scandinavian scholars. The editor contributed an introduction & concluding summary. In the foreword Gert Weisskirchen, the representative of the chairman of the OSCE discusses the new antisemitism and ways to counteract it. Like Bernard Harrison and William Nicholls, he considers anti-Zionism the dominant current mutation of antisemitism and singles out the Left of the political spectrum & the mainstream media as its most important sources & conduits.

Scandinavian Judeophobia is not new. Even though these countries are overwhelmingly secular, their Lutheran heritage influences current attitudes to Jews & the State of Israel. Denmark, Iceland & Finland are not free of the plague but Norway & Sweden are infected to an alarming degree. The mental virus issues forth from the leftwing elites, the Lutheran Church and the large immigrant communities of Middle Eastern origin. The familiar axis of leftists in government, academia & the NGOs, slavishly supported by the media, is very pronounced here. Bruce Bawer's riveting account of the situation in Norway in While Europe Slept corresponds closely to the analyses of Norwegian media attitudes by Odd Svere Hove & Erez Uriely.

The astonishing hypocrisy and sanctimony of these groups defy reason. The governments of Norway & Sweden have for decades been on the frontline of the campaign to undermine the legitimacy of Israel. This they have done by their demonization of the Jewish State in international fora, support of terrorist organizations, boycott initiatives, application of outrageous double standards & funding of NGOs hostile to Israel. Finland is also guilty of this last activity. The Norwegian media are the worst by far, especially the Aftenposten newspaper and state TV. It is a fact that Sweden harbors war criminals but further murky aspects of Holocaust and World War II history are revealed here.

The so-called `human rights' groups that target Israel have nothing to say about atrocities in authoritarian states like Russia, China, Myanmar/Burma, Iran or Saudi Arabia, or of the criminal character of Israel's enemies like Syria, Hezbollah & Hamas. As Phyllis Chesler has observed, this new antisemitism is expressed from an anti-imperialistic angle. The perpetrators attribute the West's 'four major evils' to Israel: colonialism, imperialism, Nazism & racism. This implies that non-Westerners are not responsible for their words & deeds which in turn implies a paternalistic form of racism.

In conclusion, Gerstenfeld lists the incidents and summarizes the history & current manifestations of antisemitism in Scandinavia. He provides a state-by-state chronicle of the venomous responses from the usual suspects during the Hezbollah War of 2006. The damage must not be under-estimated since Nordic bureaucrats have disproportionate representation in transnational bodies like the United Abominations & its affiliates, giving them numerous platforms for influencing world opinion.

Certain trends are emerging. From its birth in 1948 Israel has been a terrorist target. Now the whole Western world, India and Muslim states like Indonesia & Pakistan have become targets too. It follows the old antisemitic pattern of Jews being the first victims but not the last. Societies that foster a climate of Judeophobia always pay a steep price. The indifference of the majority is lethal; without a vigorous counterforce Norway & Sweden will spiral ever deeper into evil. The tiny Jewish communities in these countries are no match for the eruption of hatred. At present the only resistance comes from small groups of Evangelical Christians, the Progress Party in Norway and the Danish People's Party in Denmark.

As Gerstenfeld observes elsewhere, moral inversion often corresponds with bad judgment in other spheres; neither Swedish prime minister Olof Palme who was assassinated in 1986 nor foreign minister Anna Lindt who was murdered in 2003 used bodyguards. Both were harsh critics of Israel - Palme was the first democratically elected European leader who equated Zionism with Nazism. And these 3 countries are experiencing problems with immigrant communities. There was the 2006 Danish cartoon uproar while Sweden's 3rd largest city Malmö has become notorious for violent crime to the extent that police & emergency services are reluctant to enter the segregated eastern & southern parts of the city.

Europe is unwell. In the book Menace in Europe, Claire Berlinski portrays a continent in denial about the global terrorist threat, nations fed a diet of the same old multiculti platitudes by their elites via media operating within a narrow ideological spectrum. Native populations are in decline while unintegrated immigrants are increasing rapidly through high birth rates and continued immigration. Nowhere else however, did the resurgent disease appear to be as virulent as in Sweden & Norway. In his aforementioned book, Bawer describes the eerie apathy he observed in public in the Netherlands and Norway. Let's hope that there are still sufficient numbers of committed Scandinavians willing to rescue their nations from the ancient curse.

[vminfla]

227. Great Post, The "aid" ships are about propaganda

and not about actual aid.

[shira]

228. Take the Palestine Quiz Today

Please take the following quiz on topics regarding Palestinian quality of life, demography and history, and test your knowledge with the answers provided below.

Questions

1.) Rank these countries according to life expectancy (longest first).

Brazil, Turkey, Egypt, Gaza, Russia, & world average

2.) Rank these conflicts (since 1950) in terms of number of casualties.

Burma/Myanmar; Russia-Chechnya; Arab-Israeli conflict; Zimbabwe civil disorders; Iranian Revolution; Repression of Kurds (Turkey,Iraq,Iran); Sudan civil wars

3.) How many Palestinians were treated in Israeli hospitals in 2010?

None; 180; 1,800; 18,000; or 180,000


more...
http://cifwatch.com/2011/12/02/take-the-state-of-palestine-quiz-today/

[shira]

229. The pro-Islamist Left is siding with the oppressor (Maryam Namazie)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Njm2vJ8EY&feature=player_embedded