"Israel again razes Bedouin village"

[Arctic Dave]

Jerusalem (CNN) -- On the eve of the holy month of Ramadan, Israeli police re-entered a Bedouin village Tuesday to repeat the demolition of homes they had razed only a few days earlier.
Israeli police closed off entrances to Al-Araqeeb, in southern Israel's Negev Desert, and tore down houses that had been partially rebuilt in the past week, confiscated water tanks, attacked livestock and arrested five people, said Talab El-Sana, an Arab member of the Knesset.
Even the village sign was taken down, he said. And villagers, who were getting ready for Ramadan, set to begin Wednesday, resorted to the cemetery for shelter.
Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said police were removing sheds that were built illegally.


http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/08/10/israel.village.razed/index.html?hpt=T2






Lets see, what are the words I'm looking for.....Oh yeah, hypocritical assholes.

[PDJane]

1. Perhaps......

viciously stupid might come in there somewhere, as well. Damn, I wish the Israelis would quit.

[Arctic Dave]

2. Circular stoopid is a plenty in the region for sure.

[damntexdem]

3. Crimes against humanity.

The U.S. needs to stop reporting the criminals.

[PDJane]

5. Reporting or supporting???

[Ken Burch]

4. Zionism was NOT supposed to mean getting the right to act like Cossacks

Leave the Bedouins alone. There's NO possible excuse for destroying a village of innocent, nonviolent people. Al-Araqeeb's existence was not a threat to Israel's survival in the slightest.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

6. Not meant to by whom?

[Ken Burch]

7. Well, at one point I thought the answer to that was "by the Zionists"

Things like this, now that I think of it, make it harder to answer that question.

[Chulanowa]

8. Nationalists act the same no matter what they want to call themselves n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

9. Why won't they do that with the illegal settlements and outposts?

[oberliner]

10. They do

Police and settlers clash following West Bank outpost demolitions

Clashes erupted on Wednesday between settlers in the West Bank and Israel Police officers who razed a number of wooden structures in the settlement outpost Mitzpe Avihai, one week after a similar confrontation occurred in the outpost Givat Ronen.

Settlers torched Palestinian fields in response to the demolition of the structures at the outpost near Kiryat Arba.

Civil Administration authorities and police destroyed the structures - in which five families had lived – in an early morning raid. Authorities evacuated the families along with other settlers at the site who were there to support them.

Around 100 settlers from Kiryat Arba arrived at the site and began hurling stones at police vehicles, after which police tried to remove the demonstrators by force.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/police-and-settlers-clash-following-west-bank-outpost-demolitions-1.306142

[Crunchy Frog]

11. So do you think the Bedouins are going to torch some Israeli fields

in retaliation?

[oberliner]

12. Hopefully not

I'd like to think that not everyone is as unhinged as those settler outpost types.

[shaayecanaan]

13. From watching Micky Rosenfield he seems to have a slight South African accent...

I guess they got the right man for the job.

[shira]

14. Story debunked by Maariv Reporter

“I find myself once more having to address the subject of the destruction of the illegal Bedouin gathering at Arakib and I will continue to do so for as long as the lying propaganda of the Left wing organizations and the ‘Ha’aretz’ newspaper on the subject continues.

‘Around 300 residents and among them many children were left not only homeless for the most part, but also degraded, frustrated and shocked’ was written this week in an editorial in the newspaper. ‘The State did not offer any alternative, compensation or aid, material or psychological, to residents whose village was destroyed and their world fell in upon them’. And now to the facts. Firstly, in Arakib there were never 300 people or even 100. Secondly, no worlds fell in. A few tens of residents of (the town of) Rahat took over that land only eight years ago and constructed several buildings without asking for permits from anyone, and now the State has come and enforced the law. Compensation? Aid? For what?

In addition the time has come to dismantle the fabrication invented by ‘Ha’aretz’ about Bedouins ‘remaining homeless’ once and for all. Write this down: 12 heads of households received eviction papers. All of them own villas of at least 200 square meters on a dunam of land in Neighbourhood 25 in Rahat. The villa of Abdallah Abu Madiram is house number 108 in the neighbourhood. One of his sons, Nidal, is at house number 27 and the other, Eyad, at house number 102. Siyah Abu Madiram lives at house number 25 with his children Aziz and Ali. Mohamed Said Abu Madiram lives at house number 26, like his brother Suliman. Salim Abu Madiram lives at house number 112, Ismail Abu Madiram at house number 8, Mohamed Salame Abu Madiram at house number 23 and Suliman Abu Jabar at house number 139. They are not unfortunate, not miserable and not homeless. Enough of this bluff.”

http://cifwatch.com/2010/08/17/the-guardian-needs-to-print-an-urgent-retraction-and-apology/#more-11227

[whosinpower]

15. Amos Oz would not agree with you

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/amos-oz-situation-of-bedouin-in-negev-is-ticking-time-bomb-1.308671

He calls the situation a ticking time bomb.

snip - In late July, all of the village's 40 homes were razed and hundreds of orchards were uprooted, in response to pressure from the Jewish National Fund to plant a new forest in the area. The residents, along with volunteers, worked to erect new structures and provide themselves with cover from the sun, only to have the new shacks torn down twice more - the last time on the last evening before Ramadan.

[shira]

18. The point is no one is becoming homeless, as they already have homes in Ramat.

This is pure demonisation.

Right?

Hence, the "Industry of Lies".

[azurnoir]

20. Maariv like Aftonbladet and the Enquirer is a tabloid

Maariv (Hebrew: מַעֲרִיב‎, lit. Evening) is a Hebrew language daily tabloid published in Israel. It is second in sales after the Yedioth Ahronoth tabloid but third in readership after Israel HaYom as well. In a TGI survey comparing the last half of 2009 with the same period in 2008, Maariv saw its market share fall slightly from 13.8 to 13.6 percent.<1> In July 2010, a TGI survey of the media reported that Maariv's daily exposure rate fell from 14.1% to 13.1% and its weekend edition dropped from 18.2% to 16.1% in the last six months.<2>

Maariv's editor in chief is Yoav Tzur who succeeded Doron Galezer and Ruth Yuval who quit in protest of continued budget cutbacks.<3>

Apart from the daily newspaper and its supplements, the Maariv media group (Ma'ariv Holdings Ltd) has a chain of local newspapers with a national scale distribution, a magazines division, and a semi-independent website called NRG, which includes much of the print content. The company's shares are listed on the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange since 1990 (TASE: MARV).

For many years, the Nimrodi family held a controlling stake in Maariv and Yaakov Nimrodi served as its chairman. In March 2010, Zaki Rakib bought a 50% share from Israel Land Development Company and Ofer Nimrodi, bringing new energy and much needed cash infusion to the newspaper which has been losing millions of shekels a year since 2004. Rakib became the new chairman.<4>

This page was last modified on 29 July 2010 at 19:46.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maariv_%28newspaper%29

[shira]

21. The Maariv author pointed to the exact addresses of the homes of these Bedouin in Ramat.

The story about making Bedouins homeless (ethnic cleansing) is utter bullshit and nothing but nasty demonisation.

Then again, many of you here believe Israel's fair game and anything goes - real or imagined crimes. The filthier the better. :eyes:

[azurnoir]

22. so claims a tabloid that only publishes in Hebrew

but the claims about Ha'aretz are no surprise

[shira]

23. Well then, it should be very easy to prove the Maariv reporter wrong.

Seriously, you think the Maariv correspondent is bluffing?

[whosinpower]

31. Issues with the maariv author

First of all - the article that the author was addressing was written by Neve Gordon. The CNN article, Amos Oz article do not make this claim - so it is disenginuous to lay claim that all articles that criticise Israel for destroying this village are accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing.

Secondly - the author managed to find 12 homes in Ramat that are apparently owned by 12 families.....but there were 40 - 45 homes destroyed - not 12. What about those other 28 families?

Thirdly, does it not make you wonder why, why WHY those 12 families would CHOOSE to eke out a living in the Negev, under constant threat of eviction, with no infrastructure, no access to things like electricity, adequate clean water for EIGHT years all the while a grand "VILLA" sits waiting patiently for them in Ramat....a villa.....that is the language he chose....a villa on 200 square meters of land...which works out to about 46 x 50 feet.
And think, just for a moment, why these proud owners who choose desert life instead of City, could not even pay the smallest stipend to stay on their desert land, why they could not....SELL their "villa's" to pay the tax and avoid eviction. Of course that only accounts for 12 - there are still 28 families that are....unaccounted for....would they be homeless?

They cannot be allowed to stay, because the ILA deems the villages illegal....but Jewish people are encouraged to farm the Negev. For ten years the state encouraged this, but only a handful actually applied.....and when the law was applied to THEM....you can farm the land, create industry, encourage tourism, but you cannot live there(wine route farms)....and when they WERE living there illegally.....VIOLA! Let's change the LAW!....but only on a case by case basis.....because the bedouin should not be allowed to live there....the Bedouin cannot farm there, graze goats there, maintain their traditional ways of life there...they must go to the Israeli created bedouin settlements that are amongst the poorest in the state. They must give up their way of life.....because the Negev is not big enough......jewish Israeli's are NOT flocking in droves to the Negev...but it is still not big enough for both.

Amos Oz expresses solidarity with them. He is NOT part of the "industry of lies."

[shira]

32. Notice the difference b/w Amos Oz's comments vs. the lies?

FTR, I would never accuse Oz of being part of the Industry of Lies. He's a genuine liberal who tells it like it is, without nasty hyperbole, lies by omission, etc.

You do realize this story has been reported in many outlets as ethnic cleansing, with an outrageous claim of up to 300 Bedouins being made homeless? Take that horseshit out of the story, report the facts as they are, give both sides of the issue, and then criticize. That would be fine and I'd have no problem with that.

But this slander based on half-truths or slivers of truth is an ongoing problem. Think recent events. The Lebanese border incident was deliberately misrepresented. The Marmara incident was portrayed as a bunch of unarmed humanitarian peaceniks defending against the nasty IDF. Reports of 400 children being deported, without mention of the fact their parents are illegals and 800 other children and their families are staying. Tales of Gaza being as bad as the Warsaw ghetto, people starving, etc. And do we really need to get into Goldstone and the Human Rights hypocrites? Article after article, non-stop.

There's plenty to criticize with all the above stories. But as we agreed to earlier, there's constructive criticism vs. destructive criticism. The ones who matter in Israel - especially the left (not the far, far left) - simply will not listen to destructive demonising hate masquerading as legitimate criticism.

[whosinpower]

33. But - your taking one article

That is NOT EVEN LINKED HERE - that does use the term ethnic cleansing - and you are lumping all of them together when you claim that the story has been debunked and then try to convince readers here that there is a grand conspiracy against Israel and, in essence silencing or trying to silence ALL dissent against the policies that are not helpful to the health and well being of Israel.

You even did it against Amos Oz, who does recognize there is a significant problem with the policies of the current leadership.....the one who we both agreed would be a far better leader for Israel.

Who was it who said - the most destructive elements within Israel USE destructive criticism to shut the ears of the moderates?

Why are you helping them?

[shira]

36. It's not just Neve Gordon & The Guardian.

MJ Rosenberg, who is frequently published at TPMCafe and HuffPo also used 'pogrom' in addition to the term ethnic cleansing.

France24, infamous for the Muhammad al-Dura hoax, reported Israel made 300 people homeless. BBC made the same claim. HRW didn't go so far as falsely reporting 300 but they did report of Bedouins made homeless.

Here is more context missing from most MSM reports. Let me know if you see anything of substance here that you think should have perhaps been included by respectable media outlets covering this situation...
http://honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/new/Israel_Ethnically_Cleansing_Bedouin_Arabs.asp

See this one in particular...
http://www.mmi.gov.il/static/HanhalaPirsumim/Beduin_information.pdf

Is it really too much to ask for such incidents to be reported sensibly, based on actual evidence and free of polemics?

=======

As for Amos Oz, I haven't criticized him at all WRT this incident or any other. The man can do little wrong IMHO.

[oberliner]

24. Maariv is nothing like the Enquirer

I realize that Wikipedia is your go-to source for information; however, if you had any actual first hand awareness of Ma'ariv you would know that it bears no similarity to the Enquirer except in terms of the page dimensions.

[azurnoir]

25. Do you have first hand info about Maariv do you read it? n/t

[oberliner]

26. It's published in Hebrew

That is even listed in the Wikipedia entry!

[azurnoir]

27. Yes I am aware Maariv is published in Hebrew I asked if you read it?

[oberliner]

28. How can I read it if it is in Hebrew?

I only know English as I believe I've already told you before.

[azurnoir]

29. Yes I m aware of that too so then how do you have first hand knowledge of Maariv? n/t

[oberliner]

30. Have you spent any time in Israel?

Do you have any friends or colleagues who are Israeli?

That would be the means by which I have first hand awareness of Ma'ariv.

[azurnoir]

34. so what you know is second hand

what constitutes a tabloid can be determined by it's content or it's manner of reporting the nws so Enquirer may not be a good comparison but Aftonbladet would be closer

[Dick Dastardly]

38. Maariv did have an English version published on the web that was discontinued in 04 or 05 n/t

[Tripmann]

16. Another bullshit source attempting to excuse israeli crimes.

Typical M.O. from shira guys

http://cifwatch.com/about/

"Welcome to CiF Watch, dedicated to monitoring and exposing antisemitism on the Guardian newspaper’s ‘Comment is Free’ blog."

[polly7]

19. I am baffled as to why this site is allowed and non-biased sites

I linked to were removed. It doesn't really matter, but thanks for the heads up. That site is all about 'combating anti-semitism', iow, trying real hard to debunk the truth of Israeli gov't atrocities against human beings doing no harm ............... again. jmo.

[LTX]

35. Just so we're clear,

antisemitism is not "bullshit," and exposing it isn't "bullshit" either.

[Tripmann]

52. Labelling legitimate stories of israeli atrocities as 'anti-semitism' IS bullshit and counterproduct

ive. Its no better than the scum that labelled criticism of the bush invasion of iraq as 'anti-american'. Same MO for the same reasons.

The world is watching the zionist organisations crying 'anti-semitism' every time someone reports something unsavoury israel does. It dilutes the meaning of the phrase and its overuse in an attempt to supress genuine criticism is ultimately more damaging to isreal than 10,000 homemade unguided rockets.

Ever heard of the little boy who cried wolf? Nobodys buying the propaganda anymore, and people around here have the intellect to recognise genuine anti-semitism from accusations by bought and paid for zionist trashsites.

[shira]

53. Are reports of ethnic cleansing legitimate in this case?

Also, no one is being made homeless by these IDF actions - especially not as many as 300 people as some reports claim.

It's the trumped up charges, hyperbole, and exaggeration based on half-truths or slivers of truth that tends to be bigoted, especially when such filth is included throughout so many stories. Recent examples being that the IDF deliberately committed premeditated murder against 9 peace activists and that Israel instigated and was responsible for the latest incident on the border with Lebanon.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lithos]

57. All

Please note that discussion (and assignments) of personal motivations, especially those which force a "team" association are against both DU's civility rules and the I/P forum guidelines.

Lithos
DU Moderator

[Violet_Crumble]

73. self-deleted. Not worth it n/t

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

55. Do you think DUers can't read or are stupid?

No-one said antisemitism is bullshit. What was said very clearly was that CiFwatch is bullshit. Hope that's clear enough for you...

[shira]

58. CIFW is not bullshit. Take the OP here for example about the Bedouin...

CIFW isn't against any criticism of Israel's policies.

What they're against is the reporting of this incident as ethnic cleansing or making 300 people homeless.

Those claims are bullshit.

Nothing but Jew baiting.

When Israel's policies WRT the Bedouin are described in the worst possible ways without any context whatsoever, like this....
http://www.mmi.gov.il/static/HanhalaPirsumim/Beduin_information.pdf

...it's difficult to ascribe any other reason than bigotry or antisemitism to the motivation behind such reporting or criticism.

This isn't rocket science, Violet.

[Violet_Crumble]

59. They're a bunch of mindless lunatics..

They're a bunch of mentally unstable lunatics who throw abuse at other people at CiF. I can see how they'd appeal to other mindless lunatics and dishonest folk though...

[shira]

62. WRT the claims about 300 Bedouin being made homeless and ethnically cleansed, CIFW is 100% correct

....to point out such claims are bullshit and nothing more than Jew baiting.

[Violet_Crumble]

63. I wouldn't expect a likeminded soul like yrself to think any differently...

And clearly anyone who objects to nomadic people being forced off their traditional lands are nothing but nasty bigots. Glad you've got everything sorted out on that front...

That site you insist on polluting this forum with. I've noticed that they don't tolerate criticism of Israel and I've yet to see a bunch of people who claim to be opposed to bigotry speak out against any of the bigotry against Arabs and Muslims that appear at CiF. When it comes to not giving a shit about bigotry aimed at Arabs and Muslims, they and you look to be very much on the same page...

[shira]

68. I'm not sure why anyone would think false claims of ethnic cleansing counts as legit criticism

....WRT the situation for al-Araqeeb Bedouins.

Neither were there 300 people made homeless by Israel in this situation.

Why CIFW or anyone else should tolerate such bullshit is baffling.

Also, I'm not sure how you've figured that every Bedouin claim to land is legitimate.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

74. It appears you're unable to discern that charges of ethnic cleansing WRT al-Araqeeb are false...

...but maybe you're still trying to work out whether it's BS or not.

Take your time.

It's also strange you've set yourself up as someone equally intolerant of anti-Jew and anti-Arab or anti-Muslim bigotry, given that you're unable and unwilling to condemn clear examples of anti-Jewish bigotry.

[Violet_Crumble]

77. Seeing as how you aren't interested in reading what's said to you...

..here it is again. Will I need to bold it?

'I don't think things are false just because you or some other mindless zealots say they are,..

I work out what's bs and what's not for myself, not based on what someone like you, who's been incredibly dishonest about me in the past has to say...

That site you insist on polluting this forum with. I've noticed that they don't tolerate criticism of Israel and I've yet to see a bunch of people who claim to be opposed to bigotry speak out against any of the bigotry against Arabs and Muslims that appear at CiF. When it comes to not giving a shit about bigotry aimed at Arabs and Muslims, they and you look to be very much on the same page...


Clear enough for you?

[Violet_Crumble]

81. I've come back to address something that shouldn't be ignored...

And it's what you said here: 'It's also strange you've set yourself up as someone equally intolerant of anti-Jew and anti-Arab or anti-Muslim bigotry, given that you're unable and unwilling to condemn clear examples of anti-Jewish bigotry.'

Sorry, Shira, but you'll find most normal people are opposed to all forms of bigotry. That yr hostile to me viewing bigotry against Arabs as being just as nasty as bigotry against Jews speaks volumes about you. And I have spoken out against antisemitism in the past and you've been shown where I've done that, so I'll place that in the bullshit pile along with yr initial claim that the site you keep on polluting this forum with doesn't have any problems with criticism of Israel. They sit there and attack people who criticise Israel as being antisemitic and they rarely if ever (I suspect they've never done it) criticise what Israel does, just like they never ever speak out against the bigotry against Arabs and Muslims that exists on CiF.

See, while you may think that sitting there and ignoring what I say to you about the tendency of those CiFwatch wackos and their fans to overlook bigotry when it's aimed at Arabs or Muslims, and then when that doesn't work responding with a knee-jerk 'but you do it too!!!' line is an effective debate tactic, it's not. Especially when the person you aim it at has a track record at DU of being opposed to antisemitism. Then it just comes across as lame and pathetic.

[shira]

83. So prove you're opposed to all forms of bigotry...

1. When it comes to the OP and it's bs claims about ethnic cleansing and 300 Bedouin made homeless, you're silent.

2. When it comes to pointing out certain far-leftists whose bigotry you'd normally find revolting if it were aimed at Palestinians, you're silent.


You can bullshit all you want about not wishing to address me personally, but it shouldn't come down to me bringing these things up IF you are as opposed to all forms of bigotry as you claim and IF you're always on top of such bigotry without others having to first prompt you on it.

[Violet_Crumble]

85. I don't need to prove anything to you. You need to read what you reply to....

It's just that you make a complete and utter fool of yrself when you totally ignore what I say to you and continue to do exactly what I pointed out about yr posting style in the previous post...

So here's what I said again in the hopes you might actually take the few seconds needed to digest it and learn from it:

Sorry, Shira, but you'll find most normal people are opposed to all forms of bigotry. That yr hostile to me viewing bigotry against Arabs as being just as nasty as bigotry against Jews speaks volumes about you. And I have spoken out against antisemitism in the past and you've been shown where I've done that, so I'll place that in the bullshit pile along with yr initial claim that the site you keep on polluting this forum with doesn't have any problems with criticism of Israel. They sit there and attack people who criticise Israel as being antisemitic and they rarely if ever (I suspect they've never done it) criticise what Israel does, just like they never ever speak out against the bigotry against Arabs and Muslims that exists on CiF.

See, while you may think that sitting there and ignoring what I say to you about the tendency of those CiFwatch wackos and their fans to overlook bigotry when it's aimed at Arabs or Muslims, and then when that doesn't work responding with a knee-jerk 'but you do it too!!!' line is an effective debate tactic, it's not. Especially when the person you aim it at has a track record at DU of being opposed to antisemitism. Then it just comes across as lame and pathetic.


Do I need to hire someone to read that to you so you'll hopefully comprehend it?

[shira]

87. If you're so opposed to all forms of bigotry and find it so repulsive...

...then why haven't you yet condemned examples of hate speech from Burg and Silverstein? What are you waiting for? :)

Perhaps you don't believe what they wrote is repulsive or bigoted.

[whosinpower]

92. No - it isn't

It ALSO fails to fully address the whole issue. Nor does it take into account 28 families whose homes were also destroyed...as the author only found 12 addresses in the Israeli instituted settlement of Ramat/Rahat?

This author also paints the bedouin who do have homes as being....."landlords of villa's", which one HAS to wonder what sort of "villa" would sit on a piece of land 46 ft by 50 ft.....200 square meters. That too, is disenginuous. Nor does the author ever question why those bedouin would choose to live in the desert, instead of their "spacious, villa's".

In other words, he finds some houses and then decides to paint these bedouin as being greedy.

If you are going to question where I got the number 40 - it was from the Amos Oz article. The one I can't help wonder if you bothered to read at all.

[shira]

93. You need to read #14 more carefully

12 heads of families were served eviction notices years ago. This has been ongoing for years in Israel's courts. There's no reason to believe Israel didn't serve eviction notices to all the heads of families with dwellings in al-Arakib.

Each house is at least 200 square meters on a dunam of land (about a 1/4 acre). If you try, I'm sure you'd find online some really nice homes for sale in your area that fall within that range.

And it's not that these Bedouin are greedy, but that the situation is misrepresented as 'ethnic cleansing' and making up to 300 people homeless. If you can't see the problem with MSM and NGO's falsely misrepresenting the situation in as nasty a way as possible, where else is there to go with this?

Lastly, check out the links in #61 and #82 and tell me if that is information relating to Israel's policies WRT Bedouin that should be included within fair accounts of the situation.

---------

ps,
You realize you just misrepresented what the Maariv journalist reported in several ways? Not saying it was intentional but keep it in mind the next time you trash pro-Israel OP-ED writers for doing the same.

[azurnoir]

17. well of course JNF claims the land as its own

The historical Bedouin village located between Rahat and Beer Sheva has been targeted by the Jewish National Fund (JNF), which aims to create a "Negev Forest" in its place. The JNF has been working to evacuate the Bedouins from their lands by planting forests so that the Bedouins can neither live in the area, nor use the land for agricultural production. Ironically, the JNF claims that they help the Bedouins through their Blueprint Negev Plan: “The work of JNF benefits all Israelis. Blueprint Negev looks to bring real change to the lives of the residents of the Negev, including the 160,000 Bedouin, most of whom suffer from high unemployment and low levels of education.”



The el Araqib residents brought their case to the Beer Sheva District Court and are still awaiting a decision on the ownership of the land. However, the Israeli state proceeded to demolish homes shortly after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu publicly announced that the Bedouins are a “real threat” to Israel. Netanyahu warned yesterday of a situation in which "various elements will demand nationality and rights within Israel, in the Negev for example, if a region is created without a Jewish majority. This occurred in the Balkans and this is a real threat." In other words, he is worried that he will not be able to create a Jewish majority in the Negev.

The Bedouins are aware of the aim of the government, and Dr. Abu Freih commented that “I don’t believe the government will listen to us because they want to take our lands. I am not sure that Netanyahu will help me.”

http://www.alternativenews.org/english/index.php/topics/news/2762-israel-razes-bedouin-village

BTW the entire story was posted quite some time here on DU

[Dick Dastardly]

37. You have a problem with Maariv but are ok with the AIC???

The AIC is a radical Trotskyite communist organization. They have expressed support for George Habash and the PFLP terror group as well as the use of terror in general. Nassar Ibrahim their policy Director was/is a PFLP member and its former editor of the PFLP's weekly publication El Hadaf.

Even if Maariv was on the low level as the National Enquirer is, which it is not, The National Enquirer is even far more credible than the AIC.

[azurnoir]

39. whateva' chief we know dirty commies and all n/t

[shira]

40. Do you think the PFLP is an okay leftist Palestinian organization? n/t

[azurnoir]

41. isn't the PFLP considered a terrorist organization?

your gunna have to try lot's harder

[shira]

43. So that's a 'no'. Then why quote from the AIC? Amira Hass also has friends in the PFLP....

...so I'm not sure why you find sympathists for the PFLP to be credible.

:shrug:

[azurnoir]

44. seems to be a strange comment

because here you seem to support Ms Hass when she is accusing the PA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x330650

but here when she is pointing out that Hamas is afraid because they are losing public support in Gaza and Hamas quite violently broke up a public demonstration that the PFLP was involved in suddenly you accuse her of supporting the PFLP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x330650

so shira is about the message or the messenger in these two cases the messenger would be the persons who posted the threads or will you claim the poster of the first thread I linked to is also a PFLP supporter?

[shira]

45. The point I'm trying to make is Hass is not a credible source.

Neither is Arutz Sheva, World Nut Daily, or AIC, for that matter.

When Israel's harshest critics like Hass find themselves repeating "hasbara" talking points about Hamas or whatever, it's a good bet the "hasbarists" were right after all.

[azurnoir]

46. That Hamas is represive is hardly only a hasbara talking point

everyone knows it left and right but are you claiming AIC is lying about the land in question being to claimed by JNF

[shira]

47. Hamas' repressive actions are rarely reported by radicals like Hass

As to AIC, why don't you compare what they have to say about the Bedouin situation to something like this...
http://www.mmi.gov.il/static/HanhalaPirsumim/Beduin_information.pdf

[azurnoir]

48. On the contrary Ms Hass reports on Hamas quite frequently

and rarely in a complimentary manner as to the Israel Land Administrations report they are apparently miffed that the Bedouins will not go quietly to the reservation (Rahat) that was constructed for them

eta perhaps you should take a peek at comment#42

[shira]

49. She rarely criticizes Palestinian leadership

As to the Bedouins, they could live in poverty like Nomads and Israel will be blamed for that, or Israel can try to assimilate them into a liberal society and Israel will get the blame for that too.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[azurnoir]

50. Actually I linked to a thread where Ms Hass was criticizing the PA

now as for this

"As to the Bedouins, they could live in poverty like Nomads and Israel will be blamed for that, or Israel can try to assimilate them into a liberal society and Israel will get the blame for that too."

The Bedouins simply want to be left alone and that I know of no one criticizes Israel for that

[shira]

51. Yeah, like I wrote - it's rare when she and other radicals criticize Hamas or the PLO

When Bedouins choose to be nomadic, living in different locations dispersed widely throughout the Negev on their own in non-permanent locations, Israel is blamed for not supplying electricity, sewage, education, medical services, etc.

[Violet_Crumble]

65. 'When Bedouins choose to be nomadic'???

Yeah, Shira. They only do that nomadic thing to piss off Israel coz they're clearly Jew hating scumbags who are ungrateful for all the 'help' Israel tries to give them by moving them into brand new 'towns'. It's not like they've got a history and tradition of being nomadic or anything! Personally I think Israel should appoint someone like you to be Chief Protector of the Bedouin! ;)

[shira]

67. The point is that Israel can't be blamed for lacking infrastructure within widely dispersed...

...non-permanent Bedouin settlements.

Israel is of course the only country in the world responsible for setting up education, health, electricity, sewage, etc.. to anyone choosing to live anywhere they choose.

[Violet_Crumble]

70. The point is that yr peddling some really nasty crap, Shira..

You trying to defend the forced movement of nomadic people into townships is truly revolting...

Israel is of course the only country in the world responsible for setting up education, health, electricity, sewage, etc.. to anyone choosing to live anywhere they choose.

And you know this, how exactly? Or is this just you making up more bullshit?

btw, you showed yr true colours with yr attitude toward the Bedouin when you posted something saying they'd invaded the Negev. Not to mention yr latest one where you post a link to a bit of Israeli govt propaganda that refer to the Bedouin as squatters. Truly disgusting...

[shira]

75. Now you're making things up...

Funny how you accuse me of lying about you but you're doing it here to me.

You trying to defend the forced movement of nomadic people into townships is truly revolting...

Really? It's not at all revolting to question whether anyone, nomadic or not, is entitled to squat on land they don't own. I'm pretty sure you have BIG issues with Israelis who squat on Palestinian land, so I'm not sure why you have this double-standard WRT Bedouin who lack titles to land they've decided to settle on.

And you know this, how exactly? Or is this just you making up more bullshit?

Israel is constantly and unfairly demonized for not setting up infrastructure for widely dispersed Bedouins. This is a hypocritical double-standard not applied to any other country in which people choose to settle anywhere they wish.

btw, you showed yr true colours with yr attitude toward the Bedouin when you posted something saying they'd invaded the Negev.

Get real. How does posting any article prove my true colors? Just because I post something doesn't mean I automatically agree with every single thing in it.

Not to mention yr latest one where you post a link to a bit of Israeli govt propaganda that refer to the Bedouin as squatters. Truly disgusting...

More false disgust.

If it's propaganda, it would be easily refuted by any number of Israeli human rights organizations.

I'm also quite certain you have no issue with Jewish settlers being referred to as squatters for being on land that's not theirs. How you get that every single Bedouin claim to every dunam of land they occupy is a legitimate claim is beyond me. I'd love to see your evidence for this.

[Violet_Crumble]

78. No, I'm not. I'm reading yr constant defence of the treatment of the Bedouin...

Really? It's not at all revolting to question whether anyone, nomadic or not, is entitled to squat on land they don't own. I'm pretty sure you have BIG issues with Israelis who squat on Palestinian land, so I'm not sure why you have this double-standard WRT Bedouin who lack titles to land they've decided to settle on.

It is truly revolting the way you call the Bedouin squatters and try to equate Israeli settlers in Gaza with them. So far I'm not seeing where you think I've lied about you...

Israel is constantly and unfairly demonized for not setting up infrastructure for widely dispersed Bedouins. This is a hypocritical double-standard not applied to any other country in which people choose to settle anywhere they wish.

That's the response to my questioning where you came up with yr claim that Israel is the ONLY country that does what you claim it does? That doesn't even attempt to answer what I asked you..

Get real. How does posting any article prove my true colors? Just because I post something doesn't mean I automatically agree with every single thing in it.

But you've called them squatters and appeared to be agreeing with the sentiment of what you linked to. Why wouldn't you agree that they're invaders?

More false disgust.

If it's propaganda, it would be easily refuted by any number of Israeli human rights organizations.

There's nothing false about my disgust for yr attitudes. They are truly and utterly revolting.

If you spent even a small amount of time reading what goes on around you, you'd have spotted links to human rights groups that are totally opposed to the way the Bedouin are treated. Also, anyone who reads that crap you posted a link to and doesn't think it's government propaganda is either fucking dense as they come or so utterly zealoted that they can't see anything objectively...


I'm also quite certain you have no issue with Jewish settlers being referred to as squatters for being on land that's not theirs.

Every time you try to equate nomadic Bedouin with Israeli settlers who were illegally in territory that's not part of Israel, you prove how ugly yr attitudes towards the bedouin truly are.

How you get that every single Bedouin claim to every dunam of land they occupy is a legitimate claim is beyond me. I'd love to see your evidence for this...

I'd ask how you manage to invent arguments I haven't made, but I already know the answer to that one.

[shira]

82. You have no idea what I think about the Bedouin based on what you've written so far...

Why not just ask instead of assuming the worst?

If you know anything about Israeli settlers in the W.Bank, you'd know some of them are Arab Israelis. Does it disgust you if they're compared to Israel's Bedouin Arabs?

As to that government link about Israel's policies WRT the Bedouin that you think is bullshit for no reason other than you say so, here's something similar...
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cXFRawV_6msJ:www.phr.org.il/uploaded/articlefile_1172658389105.doc+bedouin+development+authority+water+provision&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

It's written from the Legal Advisor's Department to a representative for Physicians for Human Rights.

Good luck trying to pass its contents off as bullshit, for no other reason than Israel always lies when it contradicts your cherished narratives.

[Violet_Crumble]

86. I'm only reminding you of exactly what you've said...

You called the Bedouin squatters. You said they *choose* to be nomadic, as though their traditional way of life is something they just created to piss off the Israeli govt. I'm totally at a loss as to how me reminding you of what you've said in this thread about them is somehow me 'assuming the worst'.


I've corrected you elsewhere in this thread on yr crap attempt to divert attention away from the sheer ugliness of you trying to equate the Bedouin with Israeli settlers who were in illegal settlements in territory that wasn't part of Israel, so how about you confine yr diversions to one spot in the thread?

As to that government link about Israel's policies WRT the Bedouin that you think is bullshit for no reason other than you say so, here's something similar...

I wish you'd pay attention to what I say to you and stop the lame attempts to turn what I said into something I didn't say. I most definately didn't say the link from the Israeli govt was bullshit just because I say it is. I said it's propaganda. It contains some disturbing similarities to the way the govt did things here to the Aboriginals, especially in the way it tries to act as though it's all for the best interests of the Bedouin. You seem to think that providing links to the Israeli govt saying that the homes of the Bedouin are illegal structures and that they're to be moved to townships created for them is showing that there's nothing wrong with the attitude of the Israeli govt towards the Bedouin when it shows the complete opposite. Trying to herd a nomadic people into towns is what was done here and it's just as ugly when Israel does it as when it was done here...

btw, you never did explain where you pulled this claim of yrs from: 'Israel is of course the only country in the world responsible for setting up education, health, electricity, sewage, etc.. to anyone choosing to live anywhere they choose.' Did you just pull that one out of thin air? It looks a bit dodgy to me for several reasons...

Just popped back in to post a link to an article from B'Tselem where Israel has demolished the homes of Bedouin in the Occupied West Bank. If nothing, Israel is totally consistant :)

Civil Administration demolishes Bedouin village of al-Farsiya, in the Jordan Valley

In two waves of demolitions, on 19 July and 5 August, the Civil Administration demolished all the structures in al-Farsiya, a Bedouin village in the northern Jordan Valley, east of which the Shadmot Mehula settlement was built. On 19 July, 70 temporary structures were demolished, of which 26 were shacks in which at least 107 persons, among them 52 children, lived. The rest of the structures were used as kitchens, lavatories, and for farming, including a packing house built 30 years ago in partnership with the Israeli agricultural export firm Agrexco.

On 5 August, the Civil Administration demolished 10 structures, in addition to 27 tents that the International Red Cross and the Palestinian Authority had provided to residents who had lost their homes in the first wave of demolitions. In the second wave, 22 persons were left homeless, 11 of them children.

During the same period, the Civil Administration also demolished a residential structure in Fasayil, in the central area of the Jordan Valley, leaving nine persons (including six children and one infant) homeless. The Administration also demolished two residential structures and two sheep enclosures in Khirbet ‘Ein al-Hilweh, next to which the Maskiyot settlement was built, leaving 20 persons, including nine children, homeless. The Administration also confiscated water pumps from the village of Khirbet Samra, in the northern Jordan Valley. These pumps supplied water from collection pools to crops in the village.

Also, since June, Civil Administration inspectors have been delivering demolition and eviction orders to dozens of families in the villages of Bardala, al-Hadidiyeh, Frush Beit Dajan, ‘Ein al-Baida, and Khirbet a-Ras al-Ahmar, in the northern Valley. The justification given was that the construction in these communities had been carried out without permits from the Civil Administration. However, Israel does not, as a matter of policy, draft building plans for Palestinian communities in Area C, which is under its sole control. Rather, the Israeli authorities treat all Bedouin structures in the Jordan Valley, whether old or new, as illegal, even though most of the villages existed prior to 1967.

Meanwhile, the Civil Administration allows the settlements established in the Jordan Valley to build extensively, and even retroactively construction carried out without permits. Israel also prevents Palestinians living in the Valley to use the area’s rich water sources, thereby forcing them to buy water that is brought in water tankers, at exorbitant prices.

The eviction orders required the families to leave within 24 hours. The grounds given were that the structures are situated on land that the army has declared closed. Testimonies that Palestinians gave to B'Tselem indicate that, in fact, the land was used for residential, grazing, and farming purposes even prior to the Israeli occupation, and has never been used for army training, certainly not for firing training. In the past year, the army posted next to these villages dozens of concrete blocks on which it posted signs stating, in Arabic and in English: “Danger. Firing range. Entry forbidden!” The blocks were generally erected next to dirt roads linking the villages with the Allon Road, the main traffic artery connecting between the Jordan Valley settlements.

‘Alan Daraghmeh, 44, who was born in al-Farsiya, related that the army never trained on the village’s land, which is very close to where the Shdemot Mehola and Rotem settlements were built. Taleb ‘Awawdeh, who has lived in al-Hadidiyeh since 1991, said that the army has not trained next to the village. His house is situated less than 100 meters from the houses of the Beqa’ot settlement and several hundred meters form the Ro’i settlement.

The current wave of demolitions and evictions is part of Israel’s ongoing efforts to remove the Bedouins from the Jordan Valley. In this context, Israel forbids construction in Bedouin communities, does not supply Bedouin residents with water and electricity, and repeatedly demolishes structures used as residences or for sheep and goats. At the same time, the army imposes harsh restrictions on Palestinian movement between the Jordan Valley and elsewhere in the West Bank, only allowing Palestinians registered as residents of the Valley to enter it by private vehicle. These restrictions impede access of the Valley’s Palestinian residents to health and education services, impairs their ability to market produce, and makes it difficult for them to maintain family and social ties.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Planning_and_Building/20100812_Whole_village_demolished_in_Jordan_Valley.asp

I'm finding lots of information about the plight of the Bedouin (oops, to you that's *squatters*) and I'll post some later today in the hope you might one day read them...

[shira]

88. And I'm bringing up what appears to be a hypocritical double-standard from you...

Anyone who settles on property that's not theirs is a squatter, Jew or Arab. If said Jew or Arab has title to that property, they are not squatters. What's difficult about this? Settlers are settlers, no matter the race or ethnicity. No bigotry there, Violet, just one standard.

If you find only Jewish settlers revolting, that's very telling about your views b/c I recently linked to articles and video showing Israeli Arab settlers who have as much - or actually little - claim to the private property they dwell on as their Jewish counterparts. For some reason you seem to believe - unless I misunderstand you - that they have more rights to their private property within those settlements than their Jewish neighbors. That's quite the hypocritical double-standard, Violet.

I also noticed that you completely dismissed the issues concerning Jews who were taken out of Gaza in 2005. What that shows is a couple things. First, that Israel doesn't always favor Israeli Jews over Israeli Arabs - a common and very nasty meme amongst those whose views you share. Second, if people like yourself actually care for real peace in the region and are in favor of a 2-state solution based on settlers having to leave the West Bank, then you should show just a LITTLE more concern - and less revulsion - for the plight of these people who left Gaza 5 years ago. It's a real problem that shows Israel needs to do more for these people, whose numbers pale in comparison to those who would be coming out of the West Bank into Israel. If Israel can't relocate Gaza's settlers, how on earth will they do it with WAY more West Bank settlers. Someone actually interested in real peace and practical solutions to the conflict would demonstrate a little more compassion than you have shown for these people who apparently revolt you (but only when they're not Arab settlers of course).

[Violet_Crumble]

90. No, yr repeating the same rubbish over and over again...

Anyone who settles on property that's not theirs is a squatter, Jew or Arab.

Don't forget that same logic leads to the conclusion that the nomadic indigenous Australians were squatters who settled on property that's not theirs. I find it very disturbing that you don't seem to have any clue as to why yr views on the Bedouin are so disturbing.

And because of that 'logic' and because of yr past abuse and dishonesty about my views, I'm not giving you any more oxygen and I'm doing what I should have done before. There are plenty of pro-Israel posters who are interested in genuine discussion and who don't take what I believe and insist I believe something completely different. You aren't one of those people even though I gave you chances in the past and you blew each one.

So yr on yr own from this point and I'm not giving you any more oxygen in this forum.

[shaayecanaan]

42. Quite misleading...

Rahat was a township that Israel set up for displaced Bedouin that it had expelled from the Negev. It adopted the practice of destroying Bedouin homes in the unrecognized villages and simultaneously offering Bedouin land in the government townships, in the hope that Bedouin would give up their traditional farming practices and become "sedentarised". They combined this with a policy of outlawing the traditional grazing of goats and sheep, with the intention of forcing Bedouin to adopt other occupations. In that sense it is similar to the policies of other post-colonial states such as the US and Australia which attempted to force indigenous people onto missions and reservations.

In the case of Israel, however, there is a particular concern about the explosive fertility of Bedouins in the unrecognized villages that can often be above 10%, and which Israel regards as a threat to the state.

I have no idea whether the information you have produced is accurate. It is worth noting that there are no Jews in Rahat apart from government workers. Even if it were and the people from al-Arakib had had those lands allocated to them by the state, it does not necessarily follow that the Bedouin in question regard the said lands in Rahat as their "home", any more than American Indians or Aborigines regard missions or reservations as their home.

It should also be emphasised that the Bedouin have owned their land in al-Arakib since Ottoman times, far before Rahat was built and long before the State of Israel even existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrecognized_Bedouin_villages_in_Israel

[Violet_Crumble]

60. Thanks for posting that and pointing out the similarities to what Australia did...

In that sense it is similar to the policies of other post-colonial states such as the US and Australia which attempted to force indigenous people onto missions and reservations.

I'd say Australia succeeded very well in forcing indigenous people into missions. When I was a kid I saw one of them on the outskirts of Moree and I only found out years later that the people living there had been moved off their traditional lands and forced there by the government. I guess according to those who think the Bedouin should be grateful they've been given a 'home', indigenous Australians should have been grateful for the new 'home' they were given.

Australia's successful rehousing of those greedy and ungrateful nomadic people involved showing great care and concern for their welfare and this was seen in the creation of government positions both at the federal and state levels very ironically named the Protector of Aborigines. They only had the best interests of Aborigines at heart and made sure that their charges were well looked after by ensuring that children weren't left with their greedy and ungrateful mothers, instead placing them with nice, white families or sending them off to be servants for wealthy folk. Goodness knows why there's no longer Protectors of Aborigines ;)

[shira]

61. You mean claims of ethnic cleansing, making 300 people homeless....that's misleading?

You must have also missed this...
http://www.mmi.gov.il/static/HanhalaPirsumim/Beduin_information.pdf

Read the whole document, in particular page 8. Compare and contrast with Australian policy.

==============

Finally, compare what Israel is trying to do with the Bedouin to what they have done with those they took out of Gaza 5 years ago...
http://www.thejc.com/news/israel-news/33181/gaza-settlers-were-failed-state

[Violet_Crumble]

64. You claiming to know anything about Australian policy is what's misleading...

It's a pretty damn safe bet you know zero about what Australian policy was and how it was implemented, but seeing as how yr trying to act as though you do, why don't you tell us DUers from Australia all about the policy towards indigenous Australians and explain how it differs to the treatment of indigenous and Nomadic people in Israel...

on edit: yr attempt to equate the plight of the Bedouin with Israeli settlers removed from Gaza (which you seem to need to be continually reminded is NOT part of Israel) is really quite revolting on so many levels...

[shira]

66. Well, I'm betting the house you knew zero about Israel's actual policies WRT the Bedouins

....supplied in that handy link. :)

WRT the settlers vs. the Beduoin, it's a safe bet most actually owned the land they were settling on. I'm not sure why you're predisposed into believing all Bedouin claims to property are legit.

[Violet_Crumble]

71. Go back and address the post yr replying to instead of ignoring it...

Here it is again. Try addressing what I've said instead of ignoring it...

' You claiming to know anything about Australian policy is what's misleading...

It's a pretty damn safe bet you know zero about what Australian policy was and how it was implemented, but seeing as how yr trying to act as though you do, why don't you tell us DUers from Australia all about the policy towards indigenous Australians and explain how it differs to the treatment of indigenous and Nomadic people in Israel...

on edit: yr attempt to equate the plight of the Bedouin with Israeli settlers removed from Gaza (which you seem to need to be continually reminded is NOT part of Israel) is really quite revolting on so many levels...

So, how about you tell all of us about what Australian policy was and how it differs from Israel. You can't, because you know fuck all about what was done here or any detail about the paternalistic policy that pretended to be so generous and caring of our indigenous people...

[shira]

76. You're seriously telling me to address things when you deliberately do not? LOL!

I never claimed to know Australian policy. I only recommended that those who do can compare to Israel's policies.

See, you're once again putting words in my mouth saying I claimed to know something about Australian policy and that I'm misleading. When you accuse me of doing something like that, you call it dishonest lying. What shall we call this when you do it? :shrug:

Not all Bedouins have legit claims to the land they're settling on - same as Israeli settlers. What's difficult about this?

[Violet_Crumble]

79. Give the 'you do it too!' crap a rest. You dont' address things that get said to you..

Whereas unless you reply to a post of mine, I don't waste any time on you due to the way you've lied about me in the past. I've made it abundantly clear that I think yr a waste of time yet you insist on following me round the forum trying to engage me in yr nonsense...

See, you're once again putting words in my mouth saying I claimed to know something about Australian policy and that I'm misleading. When you accuse me of doing something like that, you call it dishonest lying. What shall we call this when you do it?

Call me someone who can comprehend what I read. I went back and reread what you said and you definitely were trying to argue that Israeli policy is different from Australian.

Not all Bedouins have legit claims to the land they're settling on - same as Israeli settlers. What's difficult about this?

What's revolting about trying to equate Bedouin with Israeli settlers in territory that isn't part of Israel has already been explained to you, not that it's sinking in.

[shira]

80. Just pointing to your hypocrisy. You don't just get to accuse others...

...of things you frequently do without being called out on it, Violet.

What have I not addressed from you, hmm?

It's not that you don't reply to me individually, you have yet to call out bigotry WRT the false claims about Israel/Bedouins as well as the bigotry provided to you coming from some far-leftists on Israel's Jews.

As to your supposed disgust about Israeli settlers in territory that's not theirs, I'm sure you feel exactly the same WRT Arab Israeli settlers in the W.Bank, right? Like these?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32702595/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2009/12/28/Jerusalem-approves-Arab-housing-units/UPI-81171262005573/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZyEmn4wjnY

Are they squatters too?

[Violet_Crumble]

84. No, you've clumsily attempted to make out I'm a hypocrite...

If you'd read what I posted, you'd have noticed I'd said why I don't reply to yr posts unless they're in reply to mine or you've said something about my own country. For me to be a hypocrite, I'd need to have sat there and ignored you telling me you think I'm a waste of space troll who's zealoted to the point where my brain cells have fried and that you wished I wouldn't waste yr time following you around the I/P forum telling you what you believe, even though you've said something completely different. Actually, that wouldn't just make me a hypocrite, that'd make me a complete and utter idiot. There ya go :)

What hadn't you addressed from me? Already told you many times that you don't bother addressing what I say to you, instead choosing to pop up and reply to my posts without addressing what I said in them. A very good example was last week where you popped up and made out I'd said the complete opposite of what I'd actually said..

It's not that you don't reply to me individually, you have yet to call out bigotry WRT the false claims about Israel/Bedouins as well as the bigotry provided to you coming from some far-leftists on Israel's Jews.

It's not bigotry. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it bigotry. What's closer to bigotry is people who label the Bedouin as squatters and show their complete ignorance of their traditional lifestyles by coming up with lame crap about how they *choose* to live like that, as if they do it to try to annoy the Israeli govt.

I recognise the link from the first article where in the past you've tried to label Palestinians living in East Jerusalem as settlers. Now they're squatters? And where in the articles did it say the Palestinian was an Israeli citizen? Are you just making that up?

You really should sit back and take a good, hard look at why more than a few DUers find yr posts and yr attitudes towards Arabs so objectionable. It's posts like the one I'm replying to that contribute to how people view you...

[shira]

89. Really? Those 2 quotes provided to you from Oberliner....

....are not bigoted? They're not revolting to you? Seriously?

As to complete horseshit claims against Israel and its Bedouins, how else do you explain articles from people who consistently and deliberately misrepresent Israel and cast it in the darkest colors imaginable via complete lies or hyperbole based on half-truths or slivers of truth? What other motivation is there for these filthy smears? These disgusting lies cannot be in the interest of peace and human rights - they're malicious and will only provoke more bloodshed. Genuine warmongers and haters slander others with most vicious lies and demonization. If aimed at Palestinians, I'm 100% certain you'd label the same deliberate slander and demonisation as hate-mongering and bigotry - so why the hypocritical double-standard?

If you can offer better sites other than CIFW that expose bigotry and hatred against Jews, then please do so. Do you know of any? If you don't, then your problem is really with any site whose purpose is to expose bigotry and hatred against Jews. In your view, they're all Rightwing excuses to pardon Israel's alleged crimes. Now THAT'S a revolting viewpoint. It would be revolting if you can't think of a single, credible Jewish organization or website devoted to fighting real bigotry and hatred against Jews, disguised as anti-Israel criticism.

[shaayecanaan]

94. That is precisely correct...

and I'm not sure why you would link to that document when it pretty much supports what I've just said:-

Here's its opening statement:-

"The rate of growth of the Negev Bedouin is the highest in the world – the Bedouin population doubles its size every 15 years. By 2020, the Bedouin population of the Negev will be 300,000."

I think any Australian policy that opened with a statement like that about the Aborigines would be howled down for its racism, or at least I would hope so. As I said in my earlier post, Israel's main motivations are keeping the numbers of Bedouin as low as possible.

If I turn up with a bulldozer and destroy your house, but offer you a plot of land somewhere else, I think for all intents and purposes you can regard yourself as being homeless. Your home has been destroyed.

Israel has been prepared to recognise the prior claims of wealthy Christian communities - it still pays rent for the land on which the Knesset building stands to the Greek patriarchate - but it has refused to recognise the claims of these people, for the simple reason that they are poor and vulnerable.

[Violet_Crumble]

72. More demolition of Bedouin villages in the Jordan Valley

As if doing it in Israel isn't bad enough, this is being done in Occupied Territory. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to label B'Tselem and anyone who opposes the threatment of the Bedouin of being antisemitic!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Civil Administration demolishes Bedouin village of al-Farsiya, in the Jordan Valley

In two waves of demolitions, on 19 July and 5 August, the Civil Administration demolished all the structures in al-Farsiya, a Bedouin village in the northern Jordan Valley, east of which the Shadmot Mehula settlement was built. On 19 July, 70 temporary structures were demolished, of which 26 were shacks in which at least 107 persons, among them 52 children, lived. The rest of the structures were used as kitchens, lavatories, and for farming, including a packing house built 30 years ago in partnership with the Israeli agricultural export firm Agrexco.

On 5 August, the Civil Administration demolished 10 structures, in addition to 27 tents that the International Red Cross and the Palestinian Authority had provided to residents who had lost their homes in the first wave of demolitions. In the second wave, 22 persons were left homeless, 11 of them children.

During the same period, the Civil Administration also demolished a residential structure in Fasayil, in the central area of the Jordan Valley, leaving nine persons (including six children and one infant) homeless. The Administration also demolished two residential structures and two sheep enclosures in Khirbet ‘Ein al-Hilweh, next to which the Maskiyot settlement was built, leaving 20 persons, including nine children, homeless. The Administration also confiscated water pumps from the village of Khirbet Samra, in the northern Jordan Valley. These pumps supplied water from collection pools to crops in the village.

Also, since June, Civil Administration inspectors have been delivering demolition and eviction orders to dozens of families in the villages of Bardala, al-Hadidiyeh, Frush Beit Dajan, ‘Ein al-Baida, and Khirbet a-Ras al-Ahmar, in the northern Valley. The justification given was that the construction in these communities had been carried out without permits from the Civil Administration. However, Israel does not, as a matter of policy, draft building plans for Palestinian communities in Area C, which is under its sole control. Rather, the Israeli authorities treat all Bedouin structures in the Jordan Valley, whether old or new, as illegal, even though most of the villages existed prior to 1967.

Meanwhile, the Civil Administration allows the settlements established in the Jordan Valley to build extensively, and even retroactively construction carried out without permits. Israel also prevents Palestinians living in the Valley to use the area’s rich water sources, thereby forcing them to buy water that is brought in water tankers, at exorbitant prices.

The eviction orders required the families to leave within 24 hours. The grounds given were that the structures are situated on land that the army has declared closed. Testimonies that Palestinians gave to B'Tselem indicate that, in fact, the land was used for residential, grazing, and farming purposes even prior to the Israeli occupation, and has never been used for army training, certainly not for firing training. In the past year, the army posted next to these villages dozens of concrete blocks on which it posted signs stating, in Arabic and in English: “Danger. Firing range. Entry forbidden!” The blocks were generally erected next to dirt roads linking the villages with the Allon Road, the main traffic artery connecting between the Jordan Valley settlements.

‘Alan Daraghmeh, 44, who was born in al-Farsiya, related that the army never trained on the village’s land, which is very close to where the Shdemot Mehola and Rotem settlements were built. Taleb ‘Awawdeh, who has lived in al-Hadidiyeh since 1991, said that the army has not trained next to the village. His house is situated less than 100 meters from the houses of the Beqa’ot settlement and several hundred meters form the Ro’i settlement.

The current wave of demolitions and evictions is part of Israel’s ongoing efforts to remove the Bedouins from the Jordan Valley. In this context, Israel forbids construction in Bedouin communities, does not supply Bedouin residents with water and electricity, and repeatedly demolishes structures used as residences or for sheep and goats. At the same time, the army imposes harsh restrictions on Palestinian movement between the Jordan Valley and elsewhere in the West Bank, only allowing Palestinians registered as residents of the Valley to enter it by private vehicle. These restrictions impede access of the Valley’s Palestinian residents to health and education services, impairs their ability to market produce, and makes it difficult for them to maintain family and social ties.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Planning_and_Building/20100812_Whole_village_demolished_in_Jordan_Valley.asp

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91. A constant Nakba for Palestine's Bedouin

"We are the of Palestine," is how 60-year-old Mohammad Ahmad Abu Dahook introduced the author and a colleague to Beit Iksa. Located nine kilometers northwest of Jerusalem, the land of Beit Iksa's 1,600 residents is among that targeted by Israel for the expanding of its illegal Ma'ale Adumim settlement. Abu Dahook is one of the approximately 50,000 Bedouin whose traditions and lifestyle have been nearly destroyed by Israeli colonization. Their communities are still being displaced by Israel's illegal land annexation and the transfer of Israel's civilian population to territory it occupies, in violation of international humanitarian law. Abu Dahook and others like him see no relief in sight as they are constantly dogged by Israeli threats of further displacement and neglect by the Palestinian Authority.

"My people were forcibly expelled by the Israelis in 1951, three years after the Nakba," Abu Dahook explained, referring to the forced displacement of the indigenous Palestinian population from their homeland perpetrated by Zionist militias during the establishment of the Israeli state in 1948 -- the year of Abu Dahook's birth. "The Israelis came to areas and killed people. They burned Bedouin tents and possessions and killed livestock. They used terrorist methods and instilled fear. People didn't leave because of rumors; they left because they were forced out. Many were martyred."

Abu Dahook's personal history illustrates the human cost of Israel's national project to establish a state exclusive for world Jewry that could only be realized through the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population, land confiscation for the construction of armed Jewish-only settlements, and the confinement of the indigenous Palestinians into ever smaller spaces.

"When the Bedouin were expelled, they went first to the West Bank, to Hebron, Bethlehem, and the Jordan Valley. Some stayed in the West Bank, some went to Jordan, and some to Egypt and then returned to Gaza," Abu Dahook explained. "A few families went to the Nusseirat camp in Gaza. The Jahalin tribe spread out, but the largest concentration was in the Jerusalem area, between 'Azariya to the west and Nabi Musa to the east, the area between Jericho and Jerusalem."

Abu Dahook's extended family is one of three families, with the Salamat and the Sray'a, that together make up the Jahalin tribe which lived originally in the Arad area in the south Negev, now Israel. Before the Nakba, Arab al-Jahalin had Turkish deeds to their agricultural lands. Israel was deliberate about emptying the land and taking as much of it as it could.

"My family went to Bethlehem, to the Beit Sahour area. They lived there for two to three years and then they settled in the Jerusalem area. Sometimes we lived in the Khan al-Ahmar area, east of 'Azariya, and in the summer we'd go to Nabi Samuel. A Bedouin moves around wherever there is food and water for the herds."

Abu Dahook explained that "In the 1950s, we were considered well-off compared to those around us. My father owned 100 heads of sheep and 10 camels at the time, and he was the sheikh. I was one of 13 kids; my father had two wives." According to Abu Dahook, "Some Bedouin were able to take their livestock with them; others had them taken by the Israelis." They tried their best to adapt; some become tenant farmers on small plots of land. Others became laborers, though work was hard to come by in the 1950s and others still bought goats or camels.

Abu Dahook recalls long walks to school and that health care was nonexistent. The UN agency for Palestine refugees, "UNRWA was completely negligent with the Bedouin sector. All of the refugees were in camps."

Although all of the members of the Jahalin tribe are refugees, only 80-85 percent are registered with UNRWA. "In 1952," Abu Dahook explained, "UNRWA rented land from the Jordanian Insha' wa ta'meer agency and established refugee camps, but it did nothing for the Bedouin. It didn't even send them a mobile health clinic. Some families in the Abu Dahook clan were not even included in the UNRWA census; they are refugees from Tel Arad but they don't have refugee cards. They never heard that there would be a census on a certain day and in a certain place, so they missed it. But I have a refugee card and so do my parents."

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9665.shtml