Amnesty Int'l Finland: Israel scum state

[shira]

BERLIN – The head of Amnesty International’s Finnish branch, Frank Johansson, told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday that he stands by his statement that Israel is a “scum state.”

Writing in his blog, which appears on the Web site of Finland’s third largest newspaper Iltalehti, Johansson wrote on Monday that “A friend of mine who works in Israel was visiting and while piling wood in the shed, we got to talking about his favourite topic. After several years of residence in the Holy Land, he has come to the conclusion that ‘Israel is a scum state.’ Based on my own visits, which occurred during the 1970s and for the last time in the 1990s, I agree.”

An English translation of Johansson’s blog first appeared Tuesday on the Web site Tundra Tabloids, a pro-Israel blog that monitors anti-Israeli sentiments in the Finnish media and blogosphere.

Speaking from Finland, Kenneth Sikorski, who runs the Web site and picked up Johansson’s remarks, told The Jerusalem Post that Johansson’s comments are “absolutely atrocious and indicative of a problem of systematic anti-Semitism.”

more...
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=185846

[shira]

1. No way people like him would ever speak like this...

...WRT Iran, S.Arabia, Venezuela, N.Korea, Syria, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.

And if he did, he'd quickly be labeled a bigot and canned.

Shows how much Amnesty Int'l has fallen.

[LeftishBrit]

19. People like him do say stupid things with regard to all kinds of countries.

'Shows how much Amnesty Int'l has fallen.'

Correction: shows how much this individual has fallen. And the particular branch of AI that employs him, unless they replace him.

Dismissing all of AI because of this particular individual's statement (which he made on a personal blog, rather than in his official capacity) is EXACTLY like concluding from an idiotic or bigoted statement by one Israeli official or diplomat that Israel as a whole is no good.

[shira]

25. We'll see whether or not AI decides to dump him. I wouldn't hold my breath....

....if I were you waiting for them to drop him or forcing him to quit.

Have you seen this interview with the AI head in Israel WRT what it would take for Israel to stop occupying Gaza?
http://www.shalomlife.com/eng/12815/Amnesty:_Gaza_is_Still_Under_Israeli_Occupation/Page1/

When you combine that with the fact Amnesty can't find any evidence of Hezbollah or Hamas human shields during the 2006 and 2008 wars, it's clear they have no credibility whatsoever on I/P issues. They also backed the Goldstone findings - that Israel deliberately targeted civilians - a charge that B'tselem and all Israel's Left aside from the real nutjobs - strongly disagree with.

[shira]

37. People like him couldn't think of any other countries that are scum states.

Bigotry vs. Jews is apparently the only remaining permissible hatred.

[LeftishBrit]

40. I don't know about him as an individual but it is CERTAINLY not true that ...

bigotry against Jews is 'the only remaining permissible hatred'

What about the virulent campaigning against those who wish to build the community centre with the mosque in New York? (While some may have other reasons for not wanting it, it is very clear that a key part of it is that Muslims are viewed as 'the enemy', are responsible collectively for 9-11, and will 'triumph' if the centre is built.)

What about the British anti-immigrant hatred? I am not referring just to unrespectable groups like the BNP, but to some very mainstream people and groups. What about the hysterical tabloid condemnation of Gordon Brown, for referring (when he thought the mike was off) to Gillian Duffy as 'bigoted' for her negative statements about East Europaean immigrants? It's quite possible that, in a very close election, this made the difference between retaining just enough Labour seats to make a Labour-LibDem coalition possible, and ending up with a predominantly Tory government? What about the polls *before* the recession that showed that 50% of Brits support 'voluntary' repatriation of immigrants?

What about Sarkozy's deportation of Gypsies/Roma - obviously winning favour among his electorate, and support from many foreigners - I've even seen the policies defended on DU!

What about the hatred of the Christian Right in America toward secularists and atheists? A poison now beginning to infect attitudes and political campaigns even in more secular countries such as Britain and Australia.

What about the use of gays as a scapegoat by many?

Yes, Jews are subject to far too much bigotry, and are perhaps the world's longest-serving surviving scapegoat (though immigrants/ aliens have also been scapegoats through history.) And nothing can excuse such bigotry. But to say that Jews are the 'only' still-acceptable target for bigotry is wrong, and is falling into the trap of the xenophobes who want to divide and rule. We should be uniting to oppose ALL forms of bigotry and xenophobia, not making into a competition about which form is worst!

[shira]

41. It tends to be permissible among elements in the radical supposedly anti-racist anarchist far Left

Not by genuine liberals who are, in contrast, not closed-minded irrational ideologues who cannot be reasoned with.

The examples you brought up is bigotry routinely exhibited by the more conservative, far rightwingers.

[LeftishBrit]

42. More I would say...

by xenophobic isolationists who are *considered* far left because they oppose the war, but often aren't. Conspiracy-theorists of a certain sort also tend to be antisemitic; it has little really to do with left or right.

'The examples you brought up is bigotry routinely exhibited by the more conservative, far rightwingers.'

Not necessarily far-right-wingers. Unless you consider that about 50% of people in several well-known democracies are 'far right'.

[IndianaGreen]

2. A 'shitty little country in the Middle East' would have been more appropriate

A "scum state" is over the top.

[shira]

3. If they're a shitty little country, what does that make your country?

And are there any other shitty countries in that region, in your opinion?

Or is it just Israel?

[IndianaGreen]

4. The USA is neither shitty nor little

and we are subsidizing the morons in Israel that want to continue with the settlements.

[Dick Dastardly]

9. It makes nothing for the US. The US is far from perfect and has done some bad things on occasion

but despite our faults we are a force for good and are a beacon of democracy for the world. Unlike no other country we have had over 230 years of a constitutional civilian controlled government with continuous democratic passing of civilian power. Never has a country with so much power as the US has, used it as prudently as we have. The world would be a much worse place without the US or with some other country wielding the power we have.

So whatever Israel or any other country is, it doesn't change who the US is.

[shira]

12. I agree - but it's always interesting to see how Israel's defamers compare...

....America to Israel in light of Afghanistan, Iraq, social issues, etc.

[bemildred]

5. Not the most reasoned criticism, to be sure.

Name calling isn't much of an argument, though it can be satisfying.

That phrase does seem to have become part of the cultural background now.

I was trying to dig up that article you posted way back when about the settlers and their new 4-wheel drives, but failed.

[proteus_lives]

23. I figure you would want to high-five him.

After he shares your hatred of Israel.

[Ozymanithrax]

6. Certainly the head of 'The head of Amnesty International’s Finnish branch' is scum...

That much is clear.

[IndianaGreen]

7. The settlers are most definetely scum, and some are terrorists!

That much is even clearer.

[Ozymanithrax]

8. It seems the scum word is proliferating like fleas on a dirty dog....

As "scum," when referring to people, is defined by Webster as "b : a low, vile, or worthless person or group of people." I only have enough information to apply the title one person. To apply it to all settlers is without merit as we do not have the proof of all the "settlers" scumminess. I think applying the world scum to every person comprising the nation of Israel does qualify one to be a scum.

[IndianaGreen]

11. Settlers refers to those living on Occupied Palestine

Or to put it in Zionist terms: Judea, Samaria.

We add the Golan and East Jerusalem. Gaza... who wants it?

[sabbat hunter]

10. I hope that he is fired

from AI, but I doubt that will happen.

[peacetalksforall]

13. My pet peeve. It is not all the people of Israel. It is the current leaders and their enablers.

There are many peace seekers in Israel. They work and play with the Paletinians. Music and art projects, child events, communitey. They are as upset as wea re.

I am disappointed that this person said 'scum' state. There are many honorable and concerned Israelis.

It's too bad that very young Israelis have to serve in the right wing military. That is a worrisome reality for everyone's future. Maybe some will get smart and not harass and kick the Palestinians around.

[ConsAreLiars]

14. For those who are interested, the source of this accusation is one of the most vile, racist, nasty

RW blogs I have seen. No surprise, considering the path it took to arrive here in I/P.

http://tundratabloid.blogspot.com/

That jpost would use anything on that site as a basis for an article tells you as lot more about jpost than this guy's word choice says about him.

(tiny edit)

[henank]

15. Shooting the messenger

It's irrelevant what the website is like. The JPost itself contacted Johansson and he himself confirmed his words to the JPost.

Johansson told the Post in a telephone interview

.

So perhaps the JPost picked up on the article from a - in your words - vile racist blog, (and very possibly they did not read the blog themselves but received a message from the blog-owner) but they did not rely on it solely. They did the true journalist thing and did a cross check and confirm from the source - something that many of the sources used on DU by pro-Palestinian posters do not.

[LeftishBrit]

20. No, it is not irrelevant.

You would quite rightly be willing to shoot the messenger if it was from from an antisemitic site.

Yes, Jerusalem Post was right to check with the original source; and yes, Mr. Johansson is unfit for his job. But nevertheless, we need to check on the agendas of all sources - and that goes for *all* sides.

[bemildred]

21. He sounds like an idiot.

I'm not a fan of AI so I don't have any trouble with that. I think the observable public reliance on the veracity and integrity of NGOs is much overdone, and occurs mostly because everyone knows governments lie as a matter of policy and professional pride, and vast herds of people require some sort of authority to tell them what to think and how to feel.

And I agree that it makes perfect sense to question sources that have gone off the deep end on one side or another. One ought to question everything.

[Dick Dastardly]

30. It is irrelevant as was claimed because JP did not base the article on Tundra nor use it as a source

as was stated by Cons.

If JP based the article on Tundra as was claimed by Cons then the credibility of the article would certainly be in question. But since we see that Cons claim was blatantly false then the only credibility certainly in question is his.

As you say all sources and agendas should be checked and questioned but it should not be done based on a false premise or claim.

[ConsAreLiars]

36. Absolute nonsense. They got the accusation from the source I cited and then called him.

He was, perhaps, a bit impolitic in his replies, but the source for the phone call and the accusation was the one with the hateful cartoons and all the rest. Birds of a feather.

Here's what jpost says. It's in the third paragraph, so only the willfully blind and dumb could miss it: "An English translation of Johansson’s blog first appeared Tuesday on the Web site Tundra Tabloids, a pro-Israel blog that monitors anti-Israeli sentiments in the Finnish media and blogosphere."

Calling that site pro-Israel is like calling the Aryan Brotherhood pro-American.

There is a very deep and terminally fatal sickness within today's Israel and among it's acolytes. If you cared half as much as I do about the future health and well-being of the people of that region, you would stop being such an easily manipulated dittohead and support those seeking peace and justice.

(edit typos)

[Dick Dastardly]

29. The source comes from AI's Johansson himself in his blog and as he admitted saying it when asked

by the JP in the OP article.


clip
Writing in his blog, which appears on the Web site of Finland’s third largest newspaper Iltalehti, Johansson wrote on Monday that “A friend of mine who works in Israel was visiting while piling wood in the shed, we got to his favourite topic. several years of residence in the Holy Land, he has come to the conclusion that Israel is a scum state. Based on my own visits, which occurred during the 1970s and for the last time in the 1990s, I agree.

clip

"Asked why he termed Israel a “scum state,” Johansson told the Post in a telephone interview that it was because Israel has “repeatedly flouted international law,” and due to his “personal experiences inside and outside of Israel with meeting Israelis.


In your attempt to deceitfully claim that the article was based on information from Tundra, you conveniently leave out that not only did Johansson publish it in his own blog but JP questioned Johansson and many others for the information and did not base it on the RW Tundra blog. JP only credited them as the first to report it.

[azurnoir]

16. while I will agree the comment was vile

JPost seems to promote as an official statement from AI which it is not the article title reads as if it was an official statement rather than a comment on a personal blog and IMO in the future we will see it used to attempt to demonize AI and delegitimize any criticism of Israel made by AI

[shira]

17. Should AI dump this idiot for his remarks? n/t

[azurnoir]

22. Yes he should resign or be fired however

that IMO will do AI absolutely no good, the so called Pro-Israel set could not have asked for a bigger "gift" from AI

[shira]

24. So if nothing is done, what will you think about AI? n/t

[azurnoir]

26. What AI Finland does is up to that organization

as to what I will think of AI USA that will remain unchanged, as it should

[shira]

27. So you won't think less of AI if he's not disciplined? n/t

[azurnoir]

28. I will think less of AI Finland but not AI USA do you believe in guilt by association? n/t

[shira]

33. Amnesty Int'l has a secretary general who can act against AI Finland or AI USA

http://www.amnesty.org/en/who-we-are/our-people/secretary-general

Supposing he doesn't, what will you think of AI?

[azurnoir]

34. really digging ain't ya but no I will not think less of AI USA

there are you happy now?

[shira]

38. How about the corporate leadership of AI in charge of all the international affiliates? n/t

[Dick Dastardly]

39. I dont think much of AI anywhere anyway but I agree with you that I would not really think less of

AI USA as they are generally separately run.

[Dick Dastardly]

32. Why should he resign for speaking what he truly believes. AI was also fully aware of his anti Israel

rants using his AI title in his blog and had no problem. That shows at least some agreement with him. But now that it becomes an issue you think they should fire him? Does that not seem unfair and hypocritical?

So you call someone speaking their true anti Israel feelings rather than hiding or obfusicating them like many in AI do a gift?

[azurnoir]

35. And besides he's so valuable in his position isn't he at least for

those who are ProIsraeli bloggers etc

[Dick Dastardly]

31. Well he uses his AI title of director of the Finnish branch of Amnesty International in his blog.

clip

The Amnesty International official said: “I have been on record on Finnish TV as saying George Bush is the biggest executioner in the Western Hemisphere, use strong language... I am writing those in my capacity as a private person, not as an Amnesty official.”

However, Iltalehti’s Web site clearly provides readers with his title as “director of the Finnish branch of Amnesty International,” which appears above his blog.


clip

She(spokeswoman for Amnesty International’s headquarters in London, Susanne Flood) added that Johansson assured her that he is not using his title to write the anti-Israeli blogs. But, when shown that his title was indeed being used in his blog, she conceded to this fact.



While I agree that the article title is not the best, JP does state numerous times its from his blog. The fact is he is the head of AI Finland, he also uses his title in his blog with AI internationals full knowledge as they conceded, so the claim of it not being official is questionable.

[LeftishBrit]

18. What an idiot

Such comments, as well as being bigoted in themselves, will completely damage his ability to do his job. He should resign or be sacked now.

[shira]

44. This idiot hasn't resigned, nor has he been sacked. What is the Secretary General of Amnesty...

....waiting for?

:shrug:

[Old Troop]

43. "sigh". Another bad translation. He was describing faulty sanitation

infrastructure.