Jewish aid ship sails for Gaza

[ConsAreLiars]

The Irene left the port of Famagusta on Sunday carrying eight activists, three of them crew members, and two journalists.

Richard Kuper, a member of the UK-based organising group Jews for Justice for Palestinians, said: "The Jewish Boat to Gaza is a symbolic act of protest against the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories and the siege of Gaza."

Kuper said the action sent out "a message of solidarity to Palestinians and Israelis who seek peace and justice" and showed that "Israeli government policies are not supported by all Jews".

Reuven Moskovitz, an 82-year-old passenger who survived the Nazi Holocaust, said he felt duty-bound to attempt the voyage in the small blue and white sailing boat, a trip expected to take around 36 hours.

"It is a sacred duty for me, as a survivor, to protest against the persecution, the oppression and the imprisonment of so many people in Gaza, including more than 800,000 children," Moskovitz said.
More at: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/09/2010926204723552186.html

[shira]

1. Oh the irony...sailing from occupied Cyprus.

Taken by force by Turkey nearly 40 years ago, hundreds of thousands of Greeks ethnically cleansed from sovereign land and replaced by Turks, a separation barrier....

:eyes:

Brilliant!

[Tripmann]

2. LOL, lets make it about where the ship is sailing from i.e. focus on the irrelevant

[azurnoir]

3. yeah derailment 'r' us has been the mark of the morning n/t

[hayu_lol]

4. With another load of surplus junk...

another claim to destroy/break the blockade as it's principal purpose for the trip, a refusal to head for Ashdod.

Asking for a sinking.

[shira]

10. It's a humanitarian mission you know, all those expired meds and useless junk could be sold...

...for cents on the dollar on Ebay.

The extra couple hundred dollars could then be used to propel flowers over the Israeli border to Gaza's appreciative Sderot neighbors.

[Tripmann]

5. Yep Az, we've had displaced greeks & the queen of england so far.At least the eskimos are safe!

[kayecy]

7. Glad you appreciate the similariity but.........

There hasn't been anyone killed on either side for 15 years.........There are four crossing points and both TCs and GCs can cross the Green Line freely.......There are no checkpoints and Turkey has no claim on Northern Cyprus, nor does it build 'Turk-only" settlements.

For Turkey read 'Israel' and you will see how disgusting Israel's 40 year occupation of the West Bank has been, even when compared to an Islamic country's standards.


Even more significant, Cyprus, unlike Israel, is not a colonial enterprise.....both the TCs and the GCs have been here for the last few hundred years.
.

[shaayecanaan]

8. To be honest, Northern Cyprus is probably more similar to Kosovo as an analogy...

One state tries to claim a disputed territory, the other retaliates and instead of people A having to flee in terror people people B flee instead. Disputed territory then holds a referendum on independence and seeks sovereignty on the basis that plus-50% of the people currently within its borders support the establishment of the new state.

And in fairness, I think that 99.5% of the inhabitants of northern Cyprus are Turkish - the depopulation of the Greek areas was more or less total - and the homes that were built for the 150 000 Anatolian settlers are more or less Turkish settlements. I accept however that there are no walls and no gates barring people of one stripe from one area but not another, etc...

The interesting difference in Cyprus is that the original Turkish Cypriots aren't too fussed on the settlers who were shipped over, who are by and large less cosmopolitan and more religious than the original TCs.

[shira]

9. The Turks do a better job suppressing all dissent than Israel - witness Kurdistan.

I suppose if Israel went all medieval like Turkey, there would be less Palestinian resistance, like in Cyprus WRT the Greeks.

Gaza has been illegally occupied by Hamas the past 3 years. The reason there is little 'resistance' against Hamas by Palestinians, just as there is little resistance by Greeks against Turks, is because they realize who their occupiers are and what would happen as a result.

[shaayecanaan]

6. You won't hear any argument from me when it comes to the Turks...

they brutally repress the Kurds, deny their genocides against the Greeks, Assyrians and Armenians and maintain an illegal military occupation in Cypress.

On the other hand, the best friend of Occupied Cypress is Israel, who have lustily helped with the construction of occupation-related infrastructure. Israel doesnt much care about the niceties of the Geneva convention, you see. In return, northern Cyprus allowed Settlement produce from the West Bank to be transshipped through Northern Cyprus and rebadged as "Product of Cyprus". You scratch my back...

Of course, the Turks and the Greeks are much closer to an agreement than the Israelis and Palestinians. A recent proposal was for the reunification of Cyprus, repatriation of property and return of two-thirds of the Anatolian settlers to Turkey. The Greek cypriots knocked it back while Turkish Cypriots accepted it. Original Turkish cypriots are quite keen on reunification as it would see them receive EU passports.

And to be fair, there is hardly a separation border any more. Anyone can cross the border just by showing their passport, and they can stay in Northern Cyprus for as long as three months or more.

Obviously, there isn't any blockade preventing fishermen from fishing or from importing steel or cement, either.

[oberliner]

11. Israel boards Jewish activist boat bound for Gaza

JERUSALEM — Israeli officials said Tuesday that naval forces have taken over a Gaza-bound boat carrying nine Jewish activists without violence.

The Israeli Navy boarded the boat and were towing it to the southern Israeli port of Ashdod, NBC News reported.

The military said "the boarding of the yacht was without incident and no violence of any kind was used by neither the passengers onboard nor the Israel naval forces."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39394430/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

[Tripmann]

12. Glad to hear nobody got hurt this time

Quote from one of the activists:

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/jewish-activists-attempt-break-gaza-b

"Israeli government policies are not supported by all Jews," said Richard Kuper of Jews for Justice for Palestinians, one of the organizers. "We call on all governments and people around the world to speak and act against the occupation and the siege."

:applause:

[oberliner]

13. The statement by Richard Kuper is a bit preposterous

Why would anyone think that Israeli government policies are supported by all Jews?

Israeli government policies aren't even supported by all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise).

Just like American government policies aren't supported by all Americans.

Many of the most prominent critics of Israeli government policies are and have been Jewish.

One would have to be completely disconnected from any awareness of the conflict to not have taken note of this fact.

In any case, I, too, am glad that no one was injured.

[Tripmann]

14. In the face of the flotilla attack and siege of gaza, it does no harm for moderate jewish

people to remind the world at every available opportunity that they do not support such crimes by the israeli government.

[oberliner]

15. What do you mean by moderate Jewish people?

Also curious if that would be a fair term to describe these activists. I think at least a few of them might identify themselves as something other than moderate.

[Violet_Crumble]

16. How do you define moderate? n/t

[oberliner]

17. I think it depends on the context

That is why I am not sure how it is being used here.

In a political context (i.e. a moderate Democrat or Republican), I think of someone who is middle-of-the road, not endorsing the more liberal or conservative elements of their political party.

I would argue that some of the people on this boat would not necessarily self-identify as moderates. I believe that Itamar Shapira, for instance, has proudly referred to himself as a member of the radical left.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. I think it also depends on where people are from...

For instance, there's things that some Americans consider to be 'radical left' that are considered to be quite moderate in many other places...

When it comes to the I/P conflict specifically, a moderate stance imo would be to support a fair and peaceful resolution to the conflict that results in two viable and independent states, Israel and Palestine. Moderates oppose violence against civilians from both sides and would be opposed to the likes of Likud and Hamas and the violent extremists of both sides. That's just my opinion and probably not shared by many.

[oberliner]

19. Good point

I believe that many folks tend to think of moderate as meaning "middle ground" or "middle of the road" - so, while I do believe that the views expressed by the liberals wing of the Democratic party are in fact quite "moderate" - they would not probably be broadly defined as moderate when looking at the US political spectrum as a whole.

[Tripmann]

20. Moderate WRT to the I/P question. Jewish people whose humanity and common sense

cannot allow them to support the actions of the israeli government in good conscience.

Or 'self-hating jews(tm)' as the apologists refer to them.

[oberliner]

21. Would you argue that most Jewish people are moderate with respect to the I/P question?

Would you say that the perspective of these activists are mainstream in the Jewish community or represent an outlying fringe position?

[Tripmann]

22. Moderate in the religious sense is not the same as mainstream oberliner

While I can speak for the jewish friends I have, I cannot speak for either the average jewish israeli or the average jewish american.

[oberliner]

24. I am still trying to get a handle on what you mean by moderate

If the position you are describing is a moderate one, does that mean there are a relatively even number of folks on either side of it? Or not necessarily?

Can you identify some Jewish people or organizations who stand to the left of the people on this boat?

[Tripmann]

25. We both know what I mean oberliner. Moderate in a religious/belief sense is not the same as a

centrist in a societal/political sense.

[oberliner]

26. I don't think these folks consider themselves to be moderate or centrist

I think they would identify themselves as leftists.

[Tripmann]

27. So they're extremists by your reckoning?

[oberliner]

28. Proud radical leftists?

A group of rare individuals who feel so strongly about this particular leftist cause that they are willing to risk their own lives in order to make a powerful political statement about social justice.

[Tripmann]

29. So you're relating religious belief to political leaning?

[oberliner]

30. I don't understand what religious belief has to do with anything

I think I may have missed what you were trying to say.

I thought you were saying that they were moderate in the political sense, as opposed to in the religious sense.

Did I misunderstand you?

If you were saying that they were moderate with respect to their belief and practice of Judaism, I am not sure what you would be basing that on.

[Tripmann]

31. Yep, you have misunderstood me, so allow me to rephrase my original post.......

In the face of the flotilla attack and siege of gaza, it does no harm for the world to be reminded that the jewish people are greater than the zionists who sanction such inhumanity.

Just like the war protests in america reminded the world that the american people are greater than the right wing warmongers who invaded iraq.

See?

[henank]

23. Hamas are not thrilled with this Jewish aid ship

They would prefer not to receive the aid rather than to have to accept that people do not want Israel completely destroyed.

Original article from Palestine Today

Google translation here

Political writer Dr. Issam Shawar wrote that the reception of these peace activists in the Gaza Strip means recognizing the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of the areas occupied in 1948. Even though they claim to recognize the right of the people of Gaza and the West to exist, they do not recognize the right of the majority of the Palestinian people to return to their homeland and do not recognize as well as the crime of occupation for the rest of our territory. Those people are trying to ignore the usurpation of people's rights, and trying to mask the ugly face of occupation with this photo-op. Do not fool us this trick, which is widely practiced in the West and the rest of the world....This is much different from allowing Israeli journalists as that does not imply recognition of the regime.

"We must stop them so as not to burden the government with responsibility to have to protect them or even hand them over to the Israeli side in the event that their lives become at risk by organizations see their arrival as an opportunity to increase the number of hostages or to avenge the victims of the holocaust of Gaza."

Spokesman for the Hamas parliamentary bloc al-Masri did not reveal a clear position on receiving the ship, but stressed that his government would welcome any sincere effort and motivation to break the siege on the Gaza Strip.

[hayu_lol]

32. Someone has to remind everyone that this vessel...

is a BOAT and NOT a ship. Even the newsjerks on the links showed their ignorance. Big difference between a boat and a ship.

What this boat carried was a very small bits and pieces of supposed relief supplies which would have helped few Palestinians. As a catamaran, it really had little freight space. Avowed purpose was to break the blockade.

Newslink mentioned yet another 'large' convoy will sail later in the year. Purpose? To break the blockade. Only thing left untried with these convoys is to refuse to stop or turn away when legally ordered to do so.

Wonder how HAMAS feels about that?

[oberliner]

33. Is the difference just size?

Anyway, it's a good point. This was definitely not an "aid ship" by any stretch of the definition.

The organizers themselves said that their goals were primarily political.

[hayu_lol]

34. Generally, a boat can be carried on a ship...

a ship cannot be carried on a boat. Ships are in the 500 ton displacement and up class.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat.htm

*subs are called 'boats' because when first built, they could be carried on ships.